So do you think Zimmerman should have just took his ass whoopin'?

[XemaSab]

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/rachel-jeantel-trayvon-martin/51e5784b2b8c2a08d90000f5

Interviewer: "So if I understand you right, your depiction of what happened is that George Zimmerman is pursuing Trayvon..."

Rachel: "Yes."

I: "...At some point a fight breaks out. Who swings, who hits who first, in your mind?"

R: "In my mind... I believe Trayvon. It was Trayvon. 'Cause like I said it was a headset. I know Trayvon. That headset always over by his chest area. And I was on the phone. Why would Trayvon leave me on the phone if he going to start something? That's a black... well not a black situation, any teen situation. 'Imma call you back, I gotta go handle something.' Trayvon had not said nothing to me. The only thing is... 'Okay, I'm at the back, almost by my daddy fiance house.' Wow."

I: "So why do you think he... if Trayvon swung first, what do you think Zimmerman did to make him swing first?"

R: "I think Zimmerman is a wannabe cop. Tryna say, 'Oh, I got you."

I: "Do you think he pulled his gun out?"

R: "No, I believe he tryna..."

I: "Grab him?"

R: "...Grab him. 'I got you. You comin' wit me.' And that's a teenager. You did not say you an officer. In his black, all black, the whole area was black. 'Who are you? Why are you touching me?'''

I: "You said something last night on Piers Morgan. You said that what Zimmerman should have done... you said there's something called 'whoop ass' and that he should... I laugh. You made me laugh out loud with that. You said that's what... he should have just took the ass whoopin', right? What did you mean by that? What did you mean by that?"

R: "Ass whoopin' and how the defense attorney say, 'Oh, Zimmerman just got BEATEN,' not... no, that's just called ass whoopin'."

I: "But Trayvon... George Zimmerman's defenders would say if he didn't pull out a gun, if Trayvon was whoopin' his ass, he could have killed George Zimmerman."

R: "No. Trust me: that's not killin'. You have a big bruise. You don't see inside your skin. You might have a little stitches. This normal teenager. Yeah, you might have a little hit, but who started it? You started it. You caused this situation."

I: "So you're saying Trayvon would have, may have, wanted to fight, he wouldn't have tried to kill George Zimmerman?"

R: "No. No. He woulda fight him and then run."

21 votes, 5 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes, even if Trayvon actually started the fight, Zimmerman was asking for it and he should have just took his ass whoopin'
	15 (71%)
	I can't believe this chick was the star witness for the prosecution; these quotes alone raise reasonable doubt that Zimmerman may have feared for his life
	6 (29%)
	5 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Pale Blue Dot]

1. You're very good at push polls.

Ever thought about working for the Republican Party?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

11. +1

[Pisces]

51. Hmmm?? I was thinking the same thing.

[yardwork]

76. Snort.

[MineralMan]

2. Pass. I don't do push polls.

Further the "chick" reference in one of the options is way wrong.

Polls like this make DU's polling feature seem worthless. Sorry.

Maybe you should self-delete and try again, this time creating a useful poll.

[Sivafae]

35. I think he should have stayed in his car, like he was instructed to do.

By the 911 operator and let the police investigate the matter. Though no part of me believes that Trayvon would have been safer.

Eta, replied in the wrong place. Stupid "smart" phone.

[hfojvt]

74. he was NOT instructed to stay in his car by anyone

just FYI

[DemocratSinceBirth]

81. Zimmerman asked the police dispatcher if he should follow Trayvon

The police dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that."


Is this where we can get in a mot argument over what the meaning of is is.

[hfojvt]

90. actually it was the dispatcher who asked

"are you following him?"

The meaning of IS, is perhaps important, because at the point when the dispatcher asked that question, Zimmerman WAS ALREADY following Trayvon.

So the statement, that "Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon, but he got out of his car anyway" is false. It puts the cart before the horse.

This is a basic fact about the case that should be well known, but too many people are spreading falsehoods and too many other people are repeating them.

[hunter]

3. I think Zimmerman should have stayed at home...

... and masturbated to gun porn in front of his computer or whatever the hell it is he usually does.

[Lisa D]

4. Your post is disgusting.

I hope, for your sake, no one ever kills your child and then people on the internet, like you, *mock* his/her death.

Grow up.

[Beaverhausen]

5. There was no ass whoopin'

Two little cuts do not a whooping make. Nice try.

[myrna minx]

6. Unrec.

[demmiblue]

7. Pathetic... unrec. n/t

[Lizzie Poppet]

8. I'd never advocate "just taking the ass-whooping."

You can't simply assume that the whooper isn't going to leave the whoopee crippled or dead. In such a situation, it's reasonable to assume your life (or long-term health) is in danger, and to do whatever it takes to prevent that.

The problem I have with Zimmerman's use of deadly force is that it was used in a situation he brought about. I think that responsibility for the incident begins with him, not Trayvon Martin. The law isn't written that way, but that's not the first time the law has found itself at odds with ethics.

[Hoyt]

15. I agree. Unfortunately, as B37 showed, the jury was weighted with bigots and gutless people.

If Zimmerman had not taken off after Martin -- scaring him into defending himself, ticking him off, Zman starting the physical confrontation, or whatever happened -- Trayvon would still be alive. I don't think the "who was on top" stuff really has anything to do with whether or not Zimmerman was legally or morally at fault. Zman created the stituation, handled it completely wrong, and was darn sure guilty of something serious.

[Lizzie Poppet]

19. Yep. I disagree with how the law is written.

It fails to take into account who initiated the conflict, and that's just insane.

In addition, I don't think the majority of jurors realize how much freedom they have in terms of adherence to instructions from the bench. Unsurprisingly, the courts don't make it a priority to fully inform a jury of this. Might not have made a difference in the Zimmerman trial (and certainly not for that jackass B37), though.

[XemaSab]

30. I agree that Zimmerman was asking for trouble and was the responsible party

But the law says that the person who hits first is the aggressor.

[TorchTheWitch]

9. There was no ass whopping

And since Zimmerman chased him down and confronted him, yes, he should have been prepared for Martin to defend himself, and that's what Martin did though Zimmerman killed him before there was any chance for an ass whopping he well deserved. Yet he kills Martin and walked free from it.

[BronxBoy]

10. This chick??? n/t

[Hoyt]

16. One of things that really ticks me off about the trial, was way people ridiculed Trayvon's friend.

[Lizzie Poppet]

20. Wow...second time in one thread we're in agreement!

I thought the statements some people were making about her were absolutely repulsive. About her appearance, her way of speaking, etc...she did nothing to deserve scorn.

[Hoyt]

26. Yep. Did you see her on any of the talk shows? I thought she was delightful and wish her well.

Yeah, don't know what happened but the earth's axis of rotation must have changed or something recently.

Have a nice day.

[BronxBoy]

25. Yep.....

And I'm sure that the same folks flocking to defend trips to a nail salon and unsupervised visits to a supposedly sequestered jury on the grounds that they were "thrust into their roles" will no doubt rush here to defend a teenager who was held up to national ridicule because she was talking to her friend on the night he was murdered

Not holding my breath

[Tuesday Afternoon]

12. UnRec

[treestar]

13. I think he should have taken the ass whooping

(if indeed it happened that way) rather than KILL the kid.

He did ask for it. He could have gone to Walmart without doing anything - then the kid ends on on the couch at home drinking iced tea. His life goes on.

He could have let the cops handle it after they called him. Then the kid ends up harassed by cops for doing nothing and eventually back home. His life goes on.

He could have just followed the kid home at a long distance and seen that he indeed just lived in that neighborhood and was doing nothing wrong. The kid's life goes on.

Whatever confrontation did occur, he had several chances to back away or halt the confrontation. The cops get there and defuse it. The kid's life goes on, even if he gets arrested for assaulting his attacker (likely in that situation.).

[cthulu2016]

14. That's an odd use of reasonable doubt

For recently unfrozen cavemen or others who have never encountered American law before, there is no such thing as reasonable doubt of a defendant's version of events.

Even in a state where self-defense is an "affirmative defense," meaning the defense must meet a standard, that standard is preponderance of the evidence, not the (much higher) reasonable doubt threshold.

No individual in American law ever has to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt, in criminal or civil law.

The reasonable doubt burden is peculiar to the State in criminal prosecutions.

[dkf]

17. Isn't it obvious anyone who is pissed at Z didn't care if he got injured or killed?

They don't believe in a right to self defense if you have a gun.

[Hoyt]

27. Not when you started the crap, and should have handled it like an adult, rather than

a friggin bigot with a gun.

[dkf]

50. Ha! So you admit it. You don't care if he died.

[Hoyt]

53. God you are obtuse. I'm saying he started the crap and should have handled it differently.

Therefore, Zman murdered Trayvon.

[dkf]

55. Exactly, you think because he followed Trayvon he should have allowed himself to be killed.

[yardwork]

77. Zimmerman was never in danger of being killed.

Zimmerman lied. Trayvon didn't smash his head on concrete 20 or 30 times. If he had, Zimmerman would be in a coma.

Zimmerman lied. He's a liar and a killer.

[Yavin4]

84. So, you believe that you have the right to provoke someone into a fight and kill them

IOW, you have the right to murder anyone that you get into a fight with.

[Ecumenist]

85. Hoyt, DFK is being purposely obtuse...I posted a thread that illustrated what he SHOULD have

looked like IF, as he lied, he was beaten within an inch of life.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023254619#post1

[dkf]

91. Zimmerman should have waited til he was unconscious. Lol.

[Ecumenist]

93. WHAT AN IDIOTIC STATEMENT but he SHOULD HAVE looked somewhat near this...PERIOD

I am NOT one to claim racism but this HAS to be the explanation because NOTHING else explains it. Dumbass fuckery!

[Ecumenist]

97. WHAT?!! What the fuck is wrong with you? NEVER IMPLIED ANYTHING O THE SORT....BUT

Last edited Sun Jul 21, 2013, 04:58 PM - Edit history (1)

he should have had some evidence of what he claimed...NO GOOSE EGGS, BLACK EYES OR BROKEN NOSES, You on the other hand, seem to be happy that a an innocent kid is pushing up daisies by your stretches & contortions to defend a lying child molesting MURDERER!

[Hoyt]

99. Good point about the goose eggs. I always figured those were scratches on his head from the tree.

Anyone pounded into cement would have them almost instantly.

This whole incident sickens me, particularly those who defend Zimmerman.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

58. An adult would have stayed in his car and waited for the police

Not creeped around like a hood wearing pervert.

[dkf]

60. Because men like to forcibly rape 17 year old 6 ft tall boys?

I didn't realize that was such a pervasive fear nowadays. Do all men feel this way?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

68. It's as much a reasonable fear as the fear of a black kid walking around your neighborhood (n/m)

[dkf]

70. Maybe for a little kid that can be grabbed.

If a 6 footer needs to be scared, all males should be.

[Ecumenist]

103. EVER HEARD OF PRISONS OR Penitentiaries? MEN RAPE 6 FOOT tall men ALL.THE.TIME!

How "bout Herb Baumgartner or Wayne Williams or JEFFREY DAHMER? No? What about David Betts in the UK who RAPED another man HE KNEW at KNIFEPOINT? Doesn't ring a bell?
Then surely, you've heard of this:"THIS IS not an isolated case. In Glasgow a man says: 'I can only tell you about the pain, because pain is all I feel.' Two years ago he was dragged on to a field at dusk by three men, one of whom he knew.In Birmingham, a man who was raped and beaten by a stranger in a park at nightfall says his life has been ruined.

Don't recall? Well how about this:In the UK in May, a man was assaulted on the London Underground. Between August and November men were raped in Kent, Barrow-in-Furness, Cardiff, Manchester, and Birmingham. In the London area there were attacks in Croydon, London Bridge, Streatham, Finsbury Park and Piccadilly Circus. Last month a 30-year-old man claimed he was raped by a gang of drunken soldiers near army barracks in Aldershot.

Don't have anything to say? Hmmm. What about this: Men RAPING other MEN in the AMERICAN MILITARY! It's been all over the news and I find it hard to believe that all the rapists were 7 ft tall 400 lb gorillas attacking 5'6" 98 lb weaklings. RAPE is ALWAYS a crime of VIOLENCE, POWER & DOMINATION. What all these crimes have in common is the creep has power on his side, ( a group of perverts that he claims membership in, a WEAPON or IMPLIED power, ie, a commanding officer etc)...I don't know if that was the ULTIMATE aim of that motherfucker but Trayvon had EVERY RIGHT TO BELIEVE THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE INTENT!
Greg Jeloudov was a 35 year old Russian Immigrant and joined the military in his new country. He was taunted by his fellow recruits for being Russian born and after 2 weeks in the barracks, HE WAS GANG RAPED BY OTHER MEN!

Remember when men NEVER rape other MEN & BOYS? Yeah, me neither.

[Pisces]

48. One person is dead and the other has scratches?

[dkf]

56. You think he would have experienced not a single other injury had he allowed himself to beat up for

However long Trayvon wished to keep beating him? At what point would Trayvon have stopped?

[Pisces]

73. The police were en route. 2 more minutes and a teenager would still be alive. Zimmerman couldn't put

up his arms or punched back?? Fists vs bullets?? Hmmmm

[dkf]

92. No sirens. How does Zimmerman know how long and what he can withstand.

It doesn't take 2 minutes for a lethal blow. That could be instantaneous.

[Ecumenist]

86. EXACTLY! Check out my post where I gave VISUAL examples of what he should have looked like

IF he'd suffered the well deserved ass whipping ...as he claimed
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023254619#post1

[burnodo]

98. ZIMMERMAN SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE

Why is that so hard to understand??

[Scuba]

18. Thousands of potential options for action, but those are the only two you listed. Pathetic.

GZ should have been at home. Where's that option?

[Spazito]

21. The hole you are digging is looking more and more like a canyon...

you must be using an excavator now as a shovel can't do the job any more.

Despicable post/poll, imo.

[blm]

22. Apparently Trayvon feared his own @ss getting whupped by a child predator. But, HIS frame

of mind doesn't deserve justice because he was too young to own a gun.

[Whisp]

23. what the Hell!!!

your negative attention backpack not full enough?

Lonely, need to be the centre?

jesus!!!

unrec this p.o.s. flamebait post.

[Ohio Joe]

28. And the Jury let it stay

At Sun Jul 21, 2013, 08:58 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

So do you think Zimmerman should have just took his ass whoopin'?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023307493

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Inflammatory push poll. Over the top inappropriate for DU.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jul 21, 2013, 09:04 AM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: this is stupid
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No... I do not believe a poll like this belongs on DU either. Hide. Ohio Joe

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Whisp]

36. grrrr!!!

[Rex]

24. Obvious trolling is so like last week.

It is threads like this that demand the unrec button be brought back!

[Bradical79]

29. Zimmerman created a dangerous situation

That caused the death of a teenager who was simply minding his own business. Martin may have been able to deal with things smarter, but it was still Zimmerman who initiated the confrontation and Zimmerman who brought the gun into the equation.

[ShadowLiberal]

31. Using a gun against bare fists = Excessive Force

There's a rule with self defense that turns it into assault or murder if you keep fighting back or use excess force when defending yourself.

I can't think of a better example of excessive force then using a gun against someone armed with only bare fists.

[XemaSab]

32. Isn't that just for police and military?

[loli phabay]

38. no, the weapon used against you does not matter be it fists or knife etc

You just have to be in a position where you have a reasonable fear of death or serious injury. People can and are killed everyday by bare hands, pillows and all sorts of objects everyday.

[XemaSab]

42. I was asking if civilians can be changed with use of excessive force

or whether that was only something that can be applied to cops and military.

[loli phabay]

46. its not so much excessive force, if you can justify what you had to do then you are golden

If not then there are charges going from battery all the way up. Not sure if some states have laws governing excessive force specifically but its a good question. Though the last thing anyone thinks off when they are being beaten is am i about to use excessive force you are yo busy trying to stop the attack. Its a very grey area that always has serious monday morning quarterbacking.

[ceonupe]

34. Except

Bare hands and feet killed more people last year than rifles.

[Scootaloo]

41. Zimmerman was using a rifle?

[ceonupe]

67. Nope a handgun

And he should have never got out of his car.

We are all attempting to apply adult logic to a child/teen who just started out in the world and a man scared and suspicious of black males specifically ones that according to him "look out of place". I guess to Zimmerman the only black males place is simply ball courts rap videos and police line ups.


My point was simply fists can and do cause great bodily harm everyday in America a person is arrested for murder using them.

[Rex]

59. 70% of all homicides happen by way of gun.

Sorry, but that RWing talking point is a boldface lie.

[ceonupe]

66. Specificly responded to the point some one was

Attempting to make that hands/fist aren't/can't be deadly

And yes the facts are right more people killed by hands than rifles (that should be obvious as rifles usually aren't the weapon of choice for street crime the major factor behind most gun violence but still the facts are facts)

And what I am saying is many rapist use hands a fist and no weapon to archive their goals. And I would want a woman in that position to use a gun if that was her only choice besides laying there and just taking it.

[RedCappedBandit]

33. Did you try very hard on this poll?

Because it's not very good.

[greyl]

37. If he would have stayed in the car instead of acting like a fucking criminal,

you would not have been forced to post this stupid poll.

[Taitertots]

65. How do you think Zimmerman's completely legal action constitute acting like a criminal?

[greyl]

107. I don't think you understand what you just asked.

Repeat it to yourself till it clicks.

[Lex]

39. Premise flawed. nt

[AtomicKitten]

40. Despicable post. Your pointy white sheet is showing.

[geckosfeet]

43. He should have stayed in his vehicle. End of story.

[wundermaus]

44. Zimmerman failed.

He profiled a kid walking down the street as a criminal without any actions, justification, evidence, except his appearance.
He followed the kid when he was instructed by a representative of the police department not to.
He got out of his car and physically confronted the kid without identifying that he was the neighborhood watch coordinator.
He knew he was carrying a firearm, was trained on how and when to use it and yet he confronted a stranger on the street.

It doesn't take a genius to see the intent Mr. Zimmerman had: he was going to detain a "suspect" until police arrived but the situation got out of control so he shot the kid and killed him. Sounds like second degree murder to me. Lucky for Mr. Zimmerman I was not on that jury.

[Pisces]

45. Since when can't a grown man take a few punches??? My husband has been in many fist fights when he

was younger. Nobody died, and some got their ass beat. Settling things with your fist use to be the way things were done.
Now it's pull out your gun and shoot. He was weak and a coward. He feared for his life because a black teenager was kicking his
ass. He could have cried uncle and Trayvon may have laughed and left.

He chose to shoot someone. he had a gun. I also read that maybe Trayvon did see the gun and that is when he feared for his life
and started fighting in earnest. Either way both may have feared for their life because one jackass brought a gun to the fight.

[Little Star]

47. I've believed that since the first time I heard about this murder.

[Duer 157099]

49. Just because that ignorant Interviewer didn't understand Rachel

is no reason to continue to misrepresent WHAT SHE IS SAYING.

Rachel is saying: NO, Trayvon did not start the fight. If he had, he would have mentioned to her that he was going to. It makes more sense to her that a wannabe cop grabbed Trayvon and Trayvon tried to GET AWAY. And that his minor injuries were the stuff of playground fights.

[etherealtruth]

52. I agree with many others: HE SHOULD HAVE STAYED IN HIS DAMNED CAR

[notadmblnd]

54. I don't think GZ was getting his ass whooped

I believe that while he was chasing Trayvon , he ran into a tree or tree branches. He admitted in his re enactment video that he tripped and fell (something which no one paid attention to) and injured himself that way. I think TM was struggling to get away from GZ and perhaps rolled on top of him somehow, but I don't think TM ever struck GZ or went for his unseen gun.

GZ killed that young man for no other reason than because he wanted to.

[XemaSab]

61. Even though every eyewitness said they were fighting

and Z was heard screaming for help for almost a minute in one of the 911 calls?

Interesting theory.

[notadmblnd]

62. There is no other evidence except GZ's word that it was him screaming

[Ecumenist]

105. AND, when asked IMMEDIATELY after the incident if he was screaming, he is on video saying

that "it doesn't sound like me".

[Rex]

64. No witness to the actual fight, sorry Charlie.

Kewl story bro!

[Tom Ripley]

57. Yes, he needs all the practice time he can get in for the forthcoming ones

The much deserved ones

[polichick]

63. FACT: Zimmerman unecessarily stalked and murdered an unarmed, innocent child.

[Marrah_G]

69. sigh............

I'd like to truly answer your post, but what I have to say to this type of BS question would just get hidden.

[Arugula Latte]

80. Me too.

And I'd like to say what I hope happens to George Zimmerman, but I might get banned for that.

[backscatter712]

71. 70 posts. One rec. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

72. and that one further proves the theory -

[JaneyVee]

75. Of course he should have.

[Arugula Latte]

78. Wow.

[Yavin4]

79. Zimmerman provoked the confrontation

You should not be allowed to claim self defense if you provoked the confrontation.

Do start shit. Won't be shit.

[Ecumenist]

89. But if you insist on starting shit, when fucked up as he claimed, he SHOULD look like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023254619#post1

[justiceischeap]

82. I kinda miss the days when all people had to worry about was an ass whoopin'

but now it seems every Tom, Dick, Harry and Jane bring guns to a fist fight.

[DevonRex]

83. Zimmerman certainly deserved an ass whoopin. Following a kid like that. Creepy guy.

Asking a kid in the dark what he was doing when all he was doing was walking home from buying candy. Didn't identify himself. I think he grabbed Trayvon's sweatshirt. You bet he deserved an ass whoopin. But he pulled out a gun and murdered a child.

[Ecumenist]

88. AND this is what is he should have looked like i Trayvon did all he claimed:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023254619#post1

[egduj]

87. I'd hope any man would choose getting hit by a child over killing a child.

[Dreamer Tatum]

94. I thought there wad no struggle that would indicate

Z was getting beaten up at all.

Are you admitting Z had reason to fear for his life?

[Blue_In_AK]

95. I think Zimmerman should have stayed in his car. n/t

[MrMickeysMom]

100. I think your broccoli looks like a big fat..

dick-headed statement!

When did you stop beating your broccoli, by the way?

[Trajan]

101. It's posts like this that define a DUer ... It becomes your tagline ...

Now and forever, I will remember Xemasab as the one who posted this nonsense ...

Too bad ...

[FunkyLeprechaun]

102. Seriously?

I'm glad I live in a country where carrying a firearm is illegal.

[SoCalDem]

104. There was no ass-whooping

all there was, was a scared teenager trying to get away from the guy with a gun..

Rachel was never properly prepared to testify.

As soon as she was identified as a phone witness, she should have been contacted by the prosecutors and told to STFU..

Unfortunately, 45 days passed and other lawyers/media got to her first and she said too much "on the record" that could be used against her eventual testimony..

I hope people paid attention, and from here on in, say NOTHING to ANYONE except ON THE RECORD to police (with copy given to you ..or transcript)..

Loose lips sink ships

I know she meant well, but she did not have good guidance .

[LittleBlue]

106. Hell no! Anyone tries to give me an "ass whoopin"

they better pray I don't have a gun, knife or any other weapon, because I have no qualms about using it. Don't care if you're white, black or green. I'm not required to take a beating no matter what I said.