Racism and gun culture

[BainsBane]

Last edited Sat Jul 20, 2013, 10:29 PM - Edit history (1)

This is how many Americans perceive race and guns:

[11 Bravo]

1. Sorry ...

that I can only rec this once!

[aikoaiko]

2. Poor trigger finger control all around.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

18. +1

[jimboss]

44. what does that mean?

[cherokeeprogressive]

49. What the FUCK does trigger finger control have to do with race?

Never mind, I now see your post for what it is... flame bait. You wanted to get the word into the conversation without having to type it. Chicken.

[Electric Monk]

53. So, there's nothing to see there, but you see it too. Alrighty then.... nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

55. See my edit, Slick.

Last edited Sun Jul 21, 2013, 10:47 PM - Edit history (1)

There was nothing to see there that was intended to imply anything other than everyone in both pictures had their fingers inside the trigger guards.

You inferred the word was somehow pertinent to what was posted and used a chicken way to get it into the conversation.

Fail.

[jimboss]

69. Inside trigger guards

Is that what the poster means when he said poor trigger control ?

I thought he might have been referencing to the picture of children holding assault rifles.

[aikoaiko]

74. Sorry I was away for so long.

Yes, when I see those two images the thing that jumps out at me is that their fingers are inside the trigger guard when they don't intend to pull the trigger. That's how "accidents" happen.

[Rebellious Republican]

76. is that Jim Rob or rim Job, or boss hog?

N/T

[BainsBane]

68. Cherokee

Edit that word out. Someone will alert. I said the same to Electric Monk

[cherokeeprogressive]

116. Done.

[BainsBane]

118. Someone did alert on his

but not yours. I don't know what he was thinking.

[BainsBane]

119. Electric Monk asked me to explain his post

He said: "I was making an observation on the choice of words used in reply #2 of that thread, and the solution to that Wheel Of Fortune puzzle from South Park is "Naggers" (as is someone who nags). That's the joke there, when he answers wrong and outs himself as a closet (maybe even subconscious) racist."

I added the text in italics as clarification.

[BainsBane]

67. Dude, I suggest

You edit that.

[ZX86]

3. I was thinking the same thing.

When I heard on Fox or right wing radio (I forget which) the host making hay out of Trayvon pictured with firearms. Like you can't go on the internet and find thousands of pics of White people posing with guns.

[BainsBane]

6. Ironic that the defense was talking about Trayvon talking about getting a gun

as evidence of his supposed violent nature, while Zimmerman not only had a gun and carried it in public, but killed someone with it.

[Jenoch]

8. I don't know Florida laws,

but if Martin were in Minnesota, he would not have been old enough to posses a gun outside of his home unless he were hunting with a valid hunter's safety certificate and license, or target shooting with an adult who is legally able to possess a gun.

[Kennah]

28. At 17, Trayvon Martin could not carry a gun in any state, but ironically he could be drafted

[Jenoch]

36. I thought draft age is 18?

[Kennah]

43. I stand corrected. It is 18.

[cherokeeprogressive]

50. He might not be old enough to be drafted, but with parental consent he could enlist.

An emancipated minor who is 17 years old doesn't even need that.

[Sirveri]

117. Enlist at 17 and 1/2 with permission. Draft could go as low as 15 in theory.

Right now selective service only mandates it for 18 year olds, with the most likely age group being 20 year olds. However in other nations they did go much lower if they thought that they needed to.

[The Straight Story]

4. And some think both the pics are murderous jackholes out to shoot everyone

Last edited Sat Jul 20, 2013, 10:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Soon as they get the chance.

But they call that being a progressive on guns.

[BainsBane]

5. Whereas others only think one picture is of a murderous jackass

[Fumesucker]

92. Or perhaps careless jackholes who don't really mean to hurt anyone but ooops..

http://negligentdischarge.com/

I was in my basement sitting at my reloading bench. I was changing the grip safety on my pistol. It was so easy to do that I didn't take the time to field strip my pistol. This would have removed the slide and barrel assembly, making it incapable of firing. I also forgot to clear the pistol. This is done by removing the magazine and racking the slide, thereby removing the live round from the chamber. I actually pulled the pistol from my holster and removed the grip safety without unloading it. I will never understand how I could have been so careless when I've always been so careful before. After I installed the safety, I pulled the trigger to test it to see if it would have to be "fitted", which involved filing on the front of the grip safety where it interacts with the back of the trigger bar. I pointed it in a "safe direction" which was at the floor in about a 45 degree angle. In retrospect, sitting in the corner of a basement there really WAS no "safe direction" when you take into account the possibility of a ricochet. If I had been standing, that would have been a "safe direction" otherwise, but since I was sitting my legs were in the path of the resulting bullet.
This is my account of what happened after the shot rang out.

[The Straight Story]

93. Yeah, accidents with many things are common and guns are no different

Most all forms of accidents are avoidable but with 300 million people in the country you are bound to have a small percent where simple accidents (like slicing your finger, nail gun to the face, etc) happen.

Best we can do is educate and give more safety courses and hope people listen.

[petronius]

7. Sadly, if there were no guns in those pictures, only one of the captions would

need to be changed (as far as the perception of too many Americans is concerned...)

[Jenoch]

9. The racist part is

assuming the second photo is racist. I don't know anything about the guy with the gun. The mere presence of the gun does not make him a thug. Those who are afraid of guns assume that he is a thug just as much or more than those who are not afraid of guns. I too wish all of them would keep their fingers off the trigger for the photos.

[BainsBane]

10. Are you honestly claiming

that labeling someone as a thug just because of the color of his is skin is not racist? Rather, pointing out that racism is what is racist?

[galileoreloaded]

11. you labeled him the thug! your epidermis is showing. nt

[BainsBane]

17. My hope is someday

Last edited Sat Jul 20, 2013, 10:57 PM - Edit history (1)

You will lean to read a post before free associating. The source of the picture is clearly labeled, which makes clear it is not I who labeled the guy.

Keep whining about the troubles of rich white men.

[baldguy]

30. I guess his comment didn't stand.

[BainsBane]

32. I wonder why?

[Skittles]

47. LOL - BainsBane

you NAILED that guy

[BainsBane]

99. update

EarlG delivered him a pizza.

[Skittles]

107. I am tired of these nitwits

I love the "our party" ones who claim they worked SOOOOO hard to get where they are and, OMG, LIBERAL ELITES look down on them!!!

[BainsBane]

111. Fortunately there is now one less to be tired of

And he was a bad one.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

33. perpetuating the myth

as it were ...

[BainsBane]

35. Is this part of the

Shhh don't talk about race in America? It makes white people feel bad?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

39. you tell me. you are the OP. all I know is that those pix are not representative of my friends

or family or experiences.

and please do not presume or assume that you know any thing about me at all in real life because you don't.

I think both pictures are perpetuating very negative stereotypes and feeds into the whole myth.

[BainsBane]

51. It's a critique of assumptions regarding race

Last edited Sun Jul 21, 2013, 02:38 AM - Edit history (1)

It interrogates racial preconceptions. If that is perpetuating negative stereotypes, so does the entire discipline of critical race theory. If that is perpetuating stereotypes, critiquing sexism is sexist. I know some believe those things, I'm just surprised to see you take that view.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

104. nothing you do surprises me anymore. carry on.

[BainsBane]

108. I really don't understand why you are so resistant

to discussing the substance of these threads. I find it perplexing. I thought the point of a site like this was to discuss politics and ideas?

[Electric Monk]

41. Speaking of showing, is it unlucky to have 13 hidden posts (in the last 90 days) on your profile?

This looks unlucky:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=223417&sub=trans

its entirely possible and probable that you are the "bitchy pundit". my comment stands. Jul 20
this is sick sexist shit. you should be ashamed. nt Jul 20
this thread is indicitive of whats wrong.... Jul 20
sick, sick fucker. nnt Jul 15
your a joke. dismissed. Jul 15
More drama. Now. Jul 14
you are advocating what here? a mob mentality? guess who else works that way: Jul 12
It's a disgusting fucking double standard Jul 09
dude was as responible as you are lucent! as in: Jul 05
lets get real. Jun 18
ugh. drop boxes ARE direct access. my god you are persistant. Jun 17
what an anti-obama republican hack. nt Jun 11
if this group is the echo chamber that the other active genderpolitics group is.. May 27

Maybe unlucky isn't quite the word I'm looking for....

[Jenoch]

13. Yeah, I didn't phrase that too well.

My point is, not everyone will see the second photo and assume the guy is a thug. I have seen lots of photos of people with guns.

I remember several years ago there was a suburban wrestling team (northern Twin Cities) where the guys posed for a team photo wearing their blaze orange and holding rifles. It was a team unity kind of thing. Of course they could not do this today (it happened about 15 years ago.)

I have a bigger problem with the menacing look rather than the gun or the color of the guy's skin.

[BainsBane]

15. The fact is most Americans are taught to fear black men

whether they realize it or not. That is why Zimmerman targeted Trayvon that night. That is why every black male in America can recount multiple examples of being pulled over or followed by police. Add guns to the mix, and they'll assume the guy is not just a thug but a gangbanger. That is not true for everyone, but it is true for many, many Americans.

[Jenoch]

19. I was only commenting upon a photo

on a web page. That is how the topic was presented.

[BainsBane]

20. the image conveys stereotypes in American society

that is the point.

[The Straight Story]

25. Is that anything like being taught to fear gun owners

I mean some anti-gun-nutters toss out weird stats in attempt to drive up fear of guns and some rw types use stats to show your are more likely to be a criminal if you are black.

So I guess teaching one type of fear is ok to some......even when you know it is not true; less than 1% use guns in a harmful way whereas black males make up 40% of prison population but only 12% of population. So if you think the latter is teaching fear what then is the former doing? I guess we are ok trying to peddle fear when we have an agenda, even if we know something to be a lie we know some will listen to the preaching and become more afraid. The rw does it well with muslims too.

Lesson is: use bad tactics when you want to make people afraid and that is just fine with both liberals and conservatives. No wonder some of us are registered independents.

(oh and yes, owning guns is a choice, being black is not....duh - the point is the tactics being used and that is what I am addressing)

[BainsBane]

27. It's totally illogical to fear a lethal weapon

While those so terrified of life that they can't leave the house without a gun are rational. Logic obviously plays no role in gun nuttery.

Anyone with a gun is prepared to kill, as Zimmerman proved. If someone is not afraid of a gun, he's got problems.

[The Straight Story]

29. Anyone carrying a knife is prepared to kill as well (just ask the TSA)

Guess I should not carry one while fishing.

And the term lethal weapon covers a really wide range of things.

[BainsBane]

34. Only they aren't nearly as successful

as any passing familiarity with homicide statistics show.

[Jenoch]

37. Not everyone with a gun is prepared to kill.

That is an assumption and stereotype on your part.

[BainsBane]

40. Really? People carry guns who aren't prepared to use them?

I thought the first rule of carrying a weapon is you need to be prepared to use it? If someone carries it around and has no intention of ever using it, seems to me he or she is courting trouble. Someone will take it off the owner and use it against him or her.

[Jenoch]

46. "People carry guns who aren't prepared to use them?"

That does not mean the same thing as being prepared to kill.

For example, police training does not teach officers to kill, it teaches them to control the situation. Most gun injuries are not fatal.

Many times the mere presence of a CCW gun, will control the situation without discharge of the weapon.

"I thought the first rule of carrying a weapon is you need to be prepared to use it?"

That is completely untrue. The actual first rule they teach at Minnesota CCW courses is that the person carrying the gun needs to be prepared to NOT use their weapon. It is drilled into the them during their training about all the crap and legal shit they will be in if they take their gun out of the holster and show it let alone firing it.

I never said anything about no intention of using the gun. I only said not all gun owners or people carrying guns are not prepared to kill someone.

"Someone will take it off the owner and use it against him or her."

This statement interests me. Do you have any data on the subject? How many CCW holders have had their guns taken away from them and used against them? You made the claim, you should back it up. Or is it just your opinion?

[BainsBane]

56. So they are prepared to use the gun but pretend it doesn't kill?

In other words they are delusional? Cops shoot to kill. They unload their whole gun. That is how they are trained. They know full well that discharging their weapon will result in death. To pretend otherwise is simply false. If you aren't prepared to kill someone, you really should carry pepper spray or some similar product. Guns are designed to kill, and they do it very efficiently. Pretending otherwise doesn't make any sense.

I know of no study of the country's most inept gun owners, but there is a good deal of evidence that shows gun owners are far more likely to have their gun used against them or a member of their own family that an intruder or assailant. Mother Jones recounts some of that data here: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check

[Jenoch]

61. You don't know as much about guns and their use

as you think you do. For instance, most of the CCW holders rarely or never actually carry a concealed gun in public. They are not prepared to take a life. You think anybody with a gun is a bloodthirsty, drooling, idiot who cannot wait to shoot and kill someone with their gun. That just is not the case.

I have seen the motherjones link before, you seem to drag that out on a majority of your posts about guns.

The problem with the stats about the likelyhood of a gun in the home being X times greater chance of.....

Those stats include situations where a criminal is shot by his fellow club member or the member of another club and he has a gun in his home, even though he was not shot at home, that statistic does not take that into account. It also does not take into account whether or not the owner of the gun possessed it legally or not.

[BainsBane]

83. club member?

Where do you get that? It specifically says someone's family. All statistics show guns are far more often used on one's self or a family member than on an intruder or criminal. That is a fact. That you don't like that evidence is entirely your problem.

[Jenoch]

84. You missed my point.

If someone is killed by a gun they do not own and is killed by that gun away from their home AND they have a gun at home, then their gun is more likely to kill them or a family member, according to the statiatics. My father has owned guns since 1944. He had guns throighout my childhood. None of his gunszhas harmed anyone. I know that's anecdotal evidence, but it works for me. I have owned guns since I was 12 (of course at that age they were actually possessed by my father), my two brothers have a similar history, although my oldest brother is a real gun enthusiast, he owns over 100 and is a retired LEO. None of these hundreds of guns (I have 8 guns) has ever harmed anyone. My oldest brother never fired his weapon in his 30 years as a LEO and only pulled his gun from his holster a single time. (Pharmacy breakin, perp long gone.)

[BainsBane]

85. Your anecdotal evidence doesn't change the data

and you asked for data, then you dismiss it.

[Jenoch]

86. You recently wrote a post

about data. The problem is the inaccurate conclusions with the data.

You really seem preoccupied with CCW holders. The Zimmerman case is the anomoly. Why are you so preoccupied with CCW and apparently do not care about all the illegal use of guns? There are DAILY cases of people shot and killed in Chicago. These killings are for the most part done by criminals using guns illegally, yet you seem to think CCW holders are coming to your south Minneapolis neighborhood with the intent to kill you.

[BainsBane]

89. Because when people carry guns around

they find ways to use them. There are many other cases, like the one going to trial in that same country where the man killed the black teenager because he thought his music was too loud.
I draw no conclusions other than Mother Jones does, and their conclusions are identical to those in the studies.

That you wish the data said something different does not make it so. Statistically, gun owners, including CCW holders, are more likely to hurt themselves or a family member than anyone else. The problem with SYG is it legalizes willfully killing when other safe alternatives exist, as was the case with the man in Texas who killed burglars fleeing from his neighbor's house. The murder was recorded on a 911 call, but the guy got off since Texas values property more than human life. There are hundreds of cases of CCW holders killing someone. Just last weekend two got in a public shootout.

[Jenoch]

101. "There are hundreds of cases of CCW holders killing someone. "

You always write this but then the only link you have is the same Mother Jones story. Do have a link with some solid evidence that is not pro gun control?

Where was the incident with the two CCWers getting in a 'shootout'?

[BainsBane]

102. Okay

CCW holders who have killed
http://www.vpc.org/ccwkillers.htm

Shootout last weekend
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/pair-of-men-with-concealed-carry-permits-engage-in-rolling-road-rage-shootout-b9953189z1-215267661.html

Mother Jones is a highly respected publication. You might recall it was they who broke the 47% story.

[Jenoch]

105. Did you miss this part?

"Do have a link with some solid evidence that is not pro gun control?"

Didn't the Mother Jones article get their info/stats from VPC?

You would not trust data from the NRA (I'm not a member) would you?

I missed that story out of Milwaukee. I hope those two guys each get convicted of a felony and do some serious prison time. You do realize that type of scenario was predicted in Minnesota ten years ago, or worse, a CCWer shooting an unarmed person on the highway, but it hasn't happened yet. Thankfully, that is a very rare situation.

[BainsBane]

110. Oh, you want evidence from the NRA

You're not interested in facts? You can find your own right-wing propaganda.

[Jenoch]

114. "... you want evidence from the NRA..."

No, I do not. That's my point. I do not want 'evidence' from the VPC either. I AM interested in the facts, that is why objective sources are needed.

[BainsBane]

121. The VPC provides crime stats

They list where they get their info from, as does Mother Jones. You can go to the studies in question. You are dismissing valid sources out of nothing but ideological bias.

[Jenoch]

122. If someone produced crime stats

and listed where they got their info from, you would accept those stats and subsequent studies in question as legitimate?

[The Straight Story]

52. "Someone will take it off the owner and use it against him or her."

So let's get them away from cops so people don't wrestle them away from them.

I guess people are responsible for being a victim though, right? If I were to open carry and someone stole it from me I am guessing you would probably be chastising me for tempting them with it.

Where have I heard something similar before???? Hmmm.....

[BainsBane]

57. cops are trained

Jenoch is obviously talking about people who have no idea what to do with their guns. If someone is going to carry a gun, they damn well better be able to use it.

[The Straight Story]

59. ok, so I used to be a cop, no problem with me open carrying then like cops do?

And if it is just a matter of training then let's put training into our schools like we do for other rights. They used to have such things and as others and myself have noted some of our parents took guns to school for shooting class/sport shooting.

We should fix the problem at it's core - society - instead of working on a placebo to make people feel better.

[BainsBane]

58. You would go there

You seem to think about that a lot. I wonder why?

[The Straight Story]

60. Same logic and idea, you only seem to think it applies in certain cases

generally upsets people when what they support on one hand comes back to bite them on the other.

[BainsBane]

62. Not even close

but if you want to carry a gun around without having any training, I won't lose sleep over it.

[The Straight Story]

63. Have training. Don't own a gun, so it does not personally affect me directly (nt)

[Jenoch]

100. I fixed it for you.

If someone is does not afraid of respect a gun, he's got problems.

[baldguy]

14. "If Trayvon Martin was of age and had a gun, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk?"

Not according to the Florida laws the NRA & the weapons lobby supports. There's your answer, right there.

[Jenoch]

16. He was 17.

What Florida law allows a minor to walk around with a gun?

[baldguy]

26. It doesn't. And that's why the quote starts out with "If Trayvon Martin was of age..."

The point is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law - which the NRA & the weapons lobby supports - doesn't seem to apply if you're black.

So let's stop pretending that America's gun culture isn't racist.

[Jenoch]

38. Ok, I sort of missed that part.

I don't know the answer to your question. If two minority guys with CCWs in Florida get into an altercation and there is little witness support I would guess that the guy who survives would get to tell his story.

[baldguy]

45. I'm guessing you didn't look at the link.

Perhaps you should look into what's actually happening in this country before you pass judgement on other DUers.

[BainsBane]

54. I'll tell you the answer to that

SYG is used by whites who kill blacks 11 times more than blacks who kill whites. The laws are racist in their application, which is why the Office for Civil Rights is investigating them.

See:
http://msmagazine.com/blog/2013/07/14/stand-your-ground-increases-racial-bias/.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/06/nra-alec-stand-your-ground
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/11/stand-your-ground-task-force-rick-scott-trayvon

[Ohio Joe]

12. K&R - nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. Your post presupposes that both pictures are the "norm". I argue they are not.

I have a VERY large family. My maternal Grandma was the oldest of 10 children. My Dad is the youngest of 13. One family is "headquartered" in OK, the other in PA. Nearly all have guns of one sort or another.

While I'll admit not having been to EVERYONE'S house, I've been to most. NONE of my family members would pose their children in front of a Christmas Tree with guns. I've never known any of my Aunts/Uncles/Cousins to play with guns. I do have a cousin who somehow got his hands on a box of .22 shells, and managed to make one (a rimfire cartridge) go off while trying to separate the bullet from the casing and after bouncing off a couple of walls in his Dad's garage it lodged in his index finger. His Dad beat the living shit out of him when they got home from the Emergency Room. We were both 10 at the time (I wasn't there, but we stopped at their house on a family vacation about a week after it happened). I'm betting he never did anything like that again. I'm also betting he has all of his now deceased Dad's guns and that his kids (who are now in their 20's and 30's) knew better than to touch them without permission.

I would posit that my experience is far more common then either of the pictures you decided to post trying to make your point.

[BainsBane]

22. No one in my family would pose like that either

and only my brother-in-law has guns. It doesn't presuppose a norm in terms of having assault rifles in family photos. It captures preconceptions that frame how many in this country view African American males as inherently dangerous.

[Jenoch]

103. My father and brothers own many guns,

I have 8 guns. My father has 6 grandsons who hunt deer with us. I cannot think of a single photo we have ever taken with anyone of us with a gun, not even a kid posing with a deer (that type of photo is not uncommon among hunters). The only photo of one of us with a gun is one I took of my then 79 year old father with a deer. We found a roadkill deer that ran onto our property and the skeleton was still intact (only crows and eagles got to it, no coyotes or wolves or the bones would have been scattered.) I hung it in a tree and my dad posed with it with a rifle just for a gag photo. I suppose you need to be a hunter to see the humor.

[BainsBane]

106. Fixating on who would take a photo like that misses the point

of those images.

[Jenoch]

109. I did not miss the point.

Not all gun owners pose for photos like that and not all black people with guns (and pose for photos with their gun) are criminals.

[BainsBane]

113. Who said they did?

This thread is not about the self absorbed gun owners capable of thinking only about themselves, though that itself would requires tomes of psychological analysis. The point is about how much of white society views blackness and criminality: a black male with a gun is assumed to be a "club member," in your words ( ), while whites with guns are perceived as law-abiding defenders of the Second Amendment.

[Jenoch]

115. My point is that while you seem

to be promoting a stereotype, that is not necessarily the case for all people.

[AverageJoe90]

64. Sorry about your cousin....

Playing with bullets is never smart.....though his dad's actions after the hospital visit, to be perfectly truthful, were far more irresponsible, by a long shot. What kind of a father does that to their children, after they go thru something like this?

Frankly, I'd go so far as to say that I think that "dad" deserved to be beaten himself(or worse; you don't want to know, really) for pulling that shit.....he sounds like a typical proto-teabagger to me. If there's a hell, I hope he's rotting in it!

[raccoon]

94. Good question, Average, but be assured short generations ago it was VERY common

for parents to do that sort of thing.

"What kind of a father does that to their children, after they go thru something like this? "


And be assured also that most people were totally OK with it. Society as whole was totally OK with it.

[AverageJoe90]

96. I'm not quite so sure about that.

If it really was as common as you seem to assume(though I'm sorry if you happened to grow up in a bad neighborhood or a particularly wing-nutty place, there are a fair number of those around), this country would have turned into something akin to Nazi Germany or Somalia a long time ago(despite what TPTB would like us to believe; and sadly, many well-meaning people do in fact fall for that cock-and-bull.). Bank on it.

Edit: Though, on second thought, I guess it'd be more accurate to say that many people simply didn't really think about such things, or, for whatever reason, just wanted to avoid the problem(I'm sure some may disagree, but I've always been of the view that silence does not necessarily equal approval). Sad truth is, same thing also went for Civil Rights violations in the South in the '50s and '60s and the suppression of labor during the last third of the 19th Century and the years preceding WWII.

[BainsBane]

82. I'm glad your cousin survived

We do read about my similar experiences, only often the children are killed. I'm glad your cousin wasn't among them.

[Not Sure]

24. I don't know the answer

to the question posed in the OP, but I think both photos show idiots.

[BainsBane]

31. It's not a question

It's a statement.

[Not Sure]

66. My bad

I read it as "How many Americans...?" as if rhetorically asking for a quantity or an accounting. The imaginary question mark was mine.

Still, both photos show idiots. Guns make them cowards in my opinion, not strong as I expect they'd view themselves.

[BainsBane]

70. I realized that

so I edited it for clarification.

[billh58]

42. K & R!

Thanks for the pointed reminder.

[LittleBlue]

71. To me, they both look dangerous

I don't know what looks more dangerous-- this so-called "thug" or kids with assault rifles.

I'd take my chances with the black guy over the psycho kids lol

[Lucky Luciano]

72. The only reason the kids in the first pic are not thugs

is because they are too young. Make them the same age as the guy in the bottom picture and I would say they are all thugs.

Can't stand the 2nd amendment nutcases.

[Skip Intro]

73. How should Americans view race and guns? n/t

[BainsBane]

75. Why don't you tell us?

[Skip Intro]

77. I'm sorry, I assumed you had an opinion to share.

My mistake.

[BainsBane]

78. I thought it was pretty clear

but if you need me to spell it out: don't assume someone is a criminal just because he is a black male.

[rrneck]

79. Yeah, we know what THOSE people think. nt

[B Stieg]

80. Want to get SEVERE gun restrictions passed? It's easy!

Just start a national gun purchasing drive targeted at minority US citizens. The NRA would support more firearms being out there on the streets, at least until they realized that folks of color owned more guns than there are in all of crackerland. Then I bet you'd see ole' Wayne LaPierre and the NRA spearheading legislation to end private gun ownership!

[BainsBane]

81. No doubt

[Jamaal510]

87. This is almost exactly what happened under Reagan,

once he saw that the Black Panthers were on the rise. It's sad that it is this way, but the fear of us owning guns is the key to convincing more wingnuts to get on board with stricter gun laws.

[BainsBane]

88. There was a thread advocating more African American gun ownership

in the gungeon. The implication was that if Trayvon Martin had had a gun, he could have stood his own ground. They are willfully impervious to the racist application of that law and the justice system in general.

[B Stieg]

90. Well said!

[AZ Progressive]

91. You need only see the cartoon from Bowling for Columbine

[BainsBane]

98. Thanks for that

I still haven't seen that documentary. I need to.

[ileus]

95. I noticed black attendance at the gun show yesterday

had increased dramatically.

Pretty cool to see IMHO...the 2A is everyone's right.

[BainsBane]

97. That will freak the NRA out

[sigmasix]

112. gundamentalist racists: the NRA's core

cowardly racism and gun-nuttery go together like peanutbutter and jelly. Racism includes a cowardly lack of honor that that sometimes reveals itself in the behavior or words of the coward. Our society recognizes racism for the evil it is-we also know that those that continue to practice racist ideology are disgusting cowards that deserve no charity or protection.

They carry guns because they know that the hate they spew is damaging to our society and dangerous to our children. They know what they deserve and exist in fear every day that they will have to answer for their evil. A bullet in the head is too easy though- I'd prefer to see cowardly gun toting child murderers in prison for life.

[Malik Agar]

120. That trigger discipline

Disclaimer: probably a 'rightwing' image, but I find it amusing and true