Six crazy ideas for saving Detroit

[ErikJ]

Last edited Sun Jul 21, 2013, 12:55 AM - Edit history (2)

I dont think #1 is a very good idea for the long term , especially the no zoning or regulations. Its just more race to the bottom politics forcing more and more cities to cut taxes to zero. I agree with Bernie Sanders; any state that partakes in this cutting taxes race to the bottom should be ineligible for federal highway funds.


Six crazy ideas for saving Detroit
By Lydia DePillis, Timothy B. Lee, and Dylan Matthews, Updated: July 20, 2013
Washington Post
......................................................

1. Eliminate all the taxes

And all the regulations: Jack Kemp, the former congressman and housing secretary, 1996 Republican vice-presidential nominee and 1988 presidential candidate, had an idea for America’s inner cities. He wanted to make them “enterprise zones,” where federal taxes and regulations were greatly relaxed, to spur outsiders to come and do business. That’s been tried to varying degrees, including a federal program creating “empowerment zones,” but why not go all the way? Eliminate all taxes for year-round residents of Detroit, with the federal government paying the cost of the abolition of state and local taxes. Get rid of zoning, parking requirements, occupational licensing and other cumbersome regulations while you’re at it. See how many businesses come.

2. Make it into a tax shelter

Delaware’s strategy of structuring its corporate tax code to favor corporate headquarters has brought billions of dollars of investment into the state. It’s possible to do that with catastrophic insurance reserves, as a former insurance commissioner once proposed for the District. They’re currently taxed as income in the United States, so tens of billions of dollars are sitting in bank accounts in Bermuda and the Cayman Islands. If the federal government allowed Detroit to host that money at a much-reduced rate, it could create a small but significant financial industry to manage it.

3. Create a Detroit Visa

.........................................

The proposal would work like this: Immigrants would get a visa that would be good for five years, during which they’d be required to maintain residence within the city limits. After that, immigrants would get normal green cards and could live where they liked. But hopefully, as they put down roots and Detroit as a whole prospered, many would choose to stay.

...........................
4. Go vegan
...........................................

5. Move federal workers to Detroit

.........................................................
6. Give Detroit to Canada

Detroit is one of the few parts of the United States (other than Alaska) that’s actually north of Canada: The city of Windsor, Ontario, lies south of it. So why not make this Canada’s problem? Much of the city’s fiscal problems boil down to retiree benefits. For example, it has $5.7 billion in unfunded retiree benefits and $3.5 billion in unfunded pensions. Luckily, Canada has a single-payer health-care system and not one but two publicly funded pension systems. Let those pay off the debt!

Canada’s provinces do more for municipalities than our states do for cities. Toronto gets 19 percent of its budget from the Ontario and Canadian federal governments. That’s much more than U.S. cities typically get. Ontario’s generally in better shape than Michigan, which is good news for tax money going to Detroit. Toronto and Ottawa are better cities to have helping you out than, say, Flint.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/07/20/six-crazy-ideas-for-saving-detroit/?tid=pm_business_pop

[ZX86]

1. Citizenship.

Live and work in Detroit for ten years and receive full citizenship. A win win for everybody.

[HiPointDem]

14. work? if there were lots of jobs there, the problem would already be solved.

[ZX86]

19. I'm no expert on urban planning.

But from what I've witnessed people from poor countries bring skills and work ethic that create their own economies. There would be no shortage of construction jobs rehabilitating homes for new arrivals and all the jobs created from servicing the construction work like food service, clothes retailers, entertainment, etc.

[HiPointDem]

30. no. they bring CAPITAL.

[ErikJ]

74. Yse, in my inner city neighborhood, lots and lots of home renovation and remodeling

going on and it seems that most of the workers are Hispanic or Russians.

[ErikJ]

2. Rip the freeways out of inner Detroit and put in streetcars

They put these monsters intersecting Detroit 60 years ago and they made it way too easy for the residents to commute back and forth to the burbs from work which eventually drained the tax base out of Detroit.

[former9thward]

4. And what would these people do?

There would not be one employer without freeways.

[ErikJ]

9. I said just inner Detroit..... at least.

Lot of the poor dont haqve cars anyway so those freeways arent helping them. Freeways just encourage more commuting and car dependency. the point is to encourage people to live NEAR work downtown so they dont even need a car.

[former9thward]

11. The employers want and need freeways.

Without freeways GM who is the biggest employer in Detroit would be out of town in a minute.

[ErikJ]

18. BS. Cars are what are ultimately destroying Detroit.

They need much better mass transit system and streetcars. Freeways just encourage sprawl and urban decay.

[philosslayer]

20. But for cars, there wouldn't BE a Detroit

n/t

[ErikJ]

41. So what? Total car dependency is what kills any city.

And

[former9thward]

21. Are those street cars going to bring supplies to factories and business?

You know -- the things that employ people. This is 2013 not 1913.

[ErikJ]

43. Factories are normally located in the outer parts of modern day metro areas now.

So your concern is irrelevant.

[former9thward]

62. Now you have gone 180 degrees.

I thought you wanted the workers to be close to their work so they would not have to commute.

[NickB79]

100. Oh, factory work is soooo 19th century

We can't expect Americans in the 21st century to work in FACTORIES, or do any sort of physical labor. Perish the thought

[HiPointDem]

112. all the 'creative types' are in *advertising,* doncha know. ADVERTISING.

[FarCenter]

26. What is really weird is the superheavy, multi-axle trucks they allow to carry steel, etc.

Other places, that type of goods is carried by rail or barge.

[Gravitycollapse]

29. So is your idea to try and make it so only barges can bring steel into Detroit?

[FarCenter]

36. Rail is also a good alternative. Moving steel by truck is very inefficient and it beats up the roads

But steel is only one of the things that those trucks carry. The issue is allowing superheavy trucks on the roads, not what they carry.

Other states do not allow them.

[Gravitycollapse]

37. So you just kind of expect a rail line to every factory? There's a reason that trucks exist.

[FarCenter]

44. Factories involved with heavy freight are usually built along rail lines or spurs.

So yes, if you are shipping stuff that weighs you can't fit within the interstate load limits, put it on a railcar or barge.

Federal commercial vehicle maximum standards on the Interstate Highway System are:

Single Axle: 20,000 pounds
Tandem Axle: 34,000 pounds
Gross Vehicle Weight: 80,000 pounds

http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/sw/overview/

Apparently MI has an exception to the federal standard that has been grandfathered. It is probably one of the things that enabled the dispersal of the auto industry away from Detroit.

Google Cleveland. It has a rich rail network, including the Ford engine plant.

[A HERETIC I AM]

117. Those specs are for 5 axle trucks.

The heaviest steel hauling trucks in Mi, OH, IN & IL have up to 11 axles and more, in some cases.



The tandem sets can carry 34,000 Lbs.

Individual 4 tire axles can carry up to 20,000 Lbs, but when grouped together as the truck above has them, it is 17,000 per axle.

" Factories involved with heavy freight are usually built along rail lines or spurs."

Not true. Not even close. Factories involved with heavy freight are built where the company owners want or need to build them. If they want access to rail lines, they build where there are rail lines. If they don't, they don't. There are plenty of businesses in Michigan and Ohio that receive coils carried by trucks like the one pictured above.

"if you are shipping stuff that weighs you can't fit within the interstate load limits, put it on a railcar or barge."

Guess how you get such items from the plant to the barge?

On TRUCKS!

Trucks like this one;




Been in the industry a long time, have ya?

[HiPointDem]

32. streetcars for *who*? to *where*? you act like there's some thriving business community

in detroit that requires a large residential workforce. there's not, & that's the problem.

[FarCenter]

3. Unincorporate most of Detroit into about a dozen new suburbs

Each of these would be a manageable unit to fix.

[ErikJ]

6. No, make the whole Metro area into one big city.

Too many governments makes it too confusing for a large continuity population . A single govt to handle all the taxes, planning and infrastrucure mainteneance is much better. The big problem for Detroit is that the tax base is out in the burbs but none is available for core Detroit.

[ConcernedCanuk]

12. That worked out real good for Toronto . . .

.
.
.

and NYC . . .

do I really need to put a dripping sarcasm thingie in here?

CC

[ErikJ]

22. Toronto ranks as one of the most livable cities in the WORLD! NYC is the Big Apple.

Both Toronto and NYC are so far advanced beyond current Detoit its like apples and oranges.

[ConcernedCanuk]

55. TO is in debt up to it's neck

.
.
.

I lived in TO in my youth ('60's) and in the 90's for employment - would never ever live there again - EVER!

I also visited NYC in the mid 70's - was "lucky" enough to witness a riot in Times Square 2 blocks from my motel room.

and "ranking" is subjective.

I've been there.

CC

[ErikJ]

78. World's Most Livable Cities Index: Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary Take Spots In Top 10

Last edited Sun Jul 21, 2013, 02:37 AM - Edit history (1)

Notice not a single American city in the top 10? I've heard that Toronto is great and I've been to Vancouver BC and was VERY impressed.

World's Most Livable Cities Index: Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary Take Spots In Top 10
The Huffington Post 08/15/2012 9:05 am Updated: 08/15/2012 9:52 am

10. Auckland, New Zealand
9. Perth, Australia
8. Helsinki, Finland
7. Sydney, Australia
6. Adelaide, Australia
5. Calgary, Canada
4. Toronto, Canada
3. Vancouver, Canada
2. Vienna, Austria
1. Melbourne, Australia

[brooklynite]

92. The New York Metro area is NOT "one big city"

NYC population is 8.3 million. Metro area is 15.1 million.

[FarCenter]

17. That might work if you cut per capita spending in Detroit down to what is is in the burbs.

Detroit Taxes Are High, But City Spending Is Higher, Study Finds

Detroit residents pay the highest local taxes on a per capita basis compared to other Michigan municipalities, while the city collects the biggest chunk of state shared revenue, according to an analysis released on Monday.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/02/detroit-taxes-spending-study_n_2994958.html

[ErikJ]

23. The problem is that Detroit population is half what it used to be and

most are so poor that Detroit revenue is almost zero. The burbs though have more revenue than they know what to do with. A single govt would distribute that revenue to where its needed most.

[FarCenter]

35. Suburbs around major cities are designed to prevent the wealth redistribution scheme you advocate

Why do you think that the map looks like it does. Cities generally did incorporate adjacent towns in the 19th century.

Detroit was quite small in 1893. http://www.detroittransithistory.info/DetroitMap-1893.html

It reached its present boundaries through annexation by 1926. http://www.urbanophile.com/2012/02/21/the-reasons-behind-detroits-decline-by-pete-saunders/

[HiPointDem]

33. BANKS are the biggest tax dodgers in Detroit. Not residents.

[Peregrine Took]

5. Free space for artists, organic growers, restaurants, theater groups, architects.

Anywhere they want to re-locate. Co op buildings of groups of collaborative artists working independently and sometimes together such as the one they have (or used to have) in Milwaukee.

No taxes, seed money/donations from top innovatvors such as Apple, Google supported by their top brains working on projects to jump start the city again.

[ErikJ]

7. Good idea! --and microbreweries too.

THey say that microbreweris are often the best way to attract people to live near by. I guess so they dont have to drive after a few pints. ha.

[Gravitycollapse]

13. That's just gentrification. It will only push out the poor.

[ErikJ]

25. And large concentration of poverty is better than gentrification?

I dont think so. Diversity is the answer.

[Gravitycollapse]

28. Do you not understand the definition of gentrification?

It pushes out the poor minorities and replaces them with upwardly mobile white people. It's a racist endeavor.

[ErikJ]

38. BS. The gentrified parts of my city are very integrated.

Miles of boarded up main streets now thriving with small indy shops and businesses with lots of both blacks and hipsters and hippies and yes liberal yuppies too.

[Gravitycollapse]

42. Which city do you live in?

[ErikJ]

46. Portland Or

We have about 8 or 10 areas that have been "gentrified" and its been all very positive as far as I can see. Portland has been working on urban renewal for the past 30-40 years. A few areas have been carefully planned with lots of govt investment but most have just sprouted on their own, like I said with artists "colonies" and miocrobreweries looking for cheap rent which attracts others to the area. Portland is putting in street cars all over the city which attracts high density housing and more people to support and start more businesses.

[Gravitycollapse]

50. Portland is like a perfect microcosm of all that is wrong with gentrification...

http://www.koin.com/2013/07/19/changing-neighborhoods-fight-for-balance/

http://portlandtribune.com/pt/9-news/155107-report-city-action-could-reduce-some-neighborhood-gentrification-

[HiPointDem]

79. there were never 'miles' of boarded up main streets in portland. and there are not roving bands

of black hipsters, hippies and yuppies in portland either.

SIX PERCENT BLACK. 32% ON FOOD STAMPS. 12.5% UNEMPLOYED.

[ErikJ]

82. Surely you dont condone the status quo of large concentrations of urban poverty do you?

Should we just build a fence around such areas and let them rot where there are no jobs or hope? Humans have been continually migrating and on the move forever. Youre niot going to stop it.

[HiPointDem]

83. you apparently condone the new status quo of large concentrations of suburban poverty.

you don't care where it goes, you just like your little 'award-winning' yupster development.

you moved to portland like 2 minutes ago.

[ErikJ]

85. That little "yupster development" of mostly retirees is pumping millions of revenue into the city.

And I've lived in Portland going on 30 years.

[HiPointDem]

91. ooooooooohhhhhh.

[HiPointDem]

94. and they can't fund their schools, despite all those award-winning 'millions'.

[ErikJ]

96. You sound almost exactly like the Clackistan Tea baggers I used to debate all the time.

They complain about how horrible Portland is non-stop.

[HiPointDem]

98. tea baggers dislike gentrication? coulda fooled me. i thought they talked more about how

the black people caused miles of boarded-up buildings and needed to move out to where the 'low-skill' jobs are.

[ErikJ]

102. Clackistan Teabaggers despise everything Portland. They call us all a bunch liberal pinko commies.

They call MAx our little choo-choo and they hate the Pearl District most of all. A lot like you. Hmmmm.

[HiPointDem]

103. except i don't hate portland, the max or the pearl district. otherwise, the similarities are

astonishing.

what i hate is dumb people who think artists = an economic program and consider it 'obvious' that working class and poor people should live in the suburbs closer to their dirty, low-skilled jobs while 'high-skilled' white collar/color people take over the city. and pat yourself on the back for your 'diversity' after you've pushed out half the black population.

[ErikJ]

106. The "creative types" are moving here and like the inner city. Cant stop progress.

Sorry.

[HiPointDem]

109. oh, gag. yeah, the fucking 'creative types'. they're no more creative than anyone else, they

just have more money and more pretensions.

it's not progress, just more economic fascism.

my initial feelings about you were correct. i'm sorry now i removed the snark. always trust your gut.

[ErikJ]

110. Yeah sure. Advertising is huge in Portland. No creativity needed for that.

[HiPointDem]

111. oh, well now, advertising. yes, by god, the sine non qua of creative endeavor. i didn't know

you were in *advertising*.

well, i'm chastened, yes indeedy.

[HiPointDem]

81. No, they're not. You can't be 'very integrated' when 3/4 of your population is WHITE & only

6% is BLACK, and 1/3 of the black people are POOR and live in poor neighborhoods.

That leaves you about 4 black people/100 to 'integrate' your yuppie neighborhoods.

[ErikJ]

84. They were concentrated in inner NE Portland which is a 5 mile radius area.

WHich is where the urban renewal diversity is going on. They were never evenly spread out before as youre assuming.

[HiPointDem]

99. i'm not assuming anything. i'm saying your little gentrified neighborhoods aren't 'highly

integrated'.

the arty/hippie scene was equally integrated in the 70s, probably more so, because portland was about 13% black then, and portland was a working-class city.

this is integration in portland in the 70s:










I'm so glad the yupsters are 'integrating' with the 4% of black people who have sufficient money to stay in the city. what a fucking triumph.

[ErikJ]

101. Inner SE no, inner NE yes.

"hippy" Hawthorne street area was and always has been largely white but inner NE was almost solid black but now very integrated.

[HiPointDem]

107. non-seq. and when you say 'highly integrated,' what you actually mean is 'transitional'.

because this is one moment in the ongoing black depopulation and the up-scale white repopulation.

The King area is now majority white (63/37).

[ErikJ]

108. So you support and condone large concentrations of poverty in areas

with few low-skilled jobs within 5 miles? Maybe you dont want them moving into your suburban white neighborhood huh? It sounds like YOU may be the racist one my friend.

[HiPointDem]

113. lol. i don't live in the burbs. and there are no jobs here, we have 10+% unemployment. so no,

i'd prefer we get some jobs before more unemployed people come, black or white, thank you very much.

portland's UE rate is 6.9%. below the national average. but i guess all the jobs there are in ADVERTISING.

and of course, we all know black people can't do ADVERTISING. because it's so gosh-darn CREATIVE.

[ErikJ]

114. Modern advertising needs highly skilled artistic types.

Its not the 1950's anymore. Something caalled computers has revolutionized it I hear.

[HiPointDem]

115. COMPUTERS. Yeah, they make art work so much more SKILLED.

you are a laugh a minute.

I wonder if you even understand why?

It's hard to believe you could be throwing out such funnies without knowing it.

[Dreamer Tatum]

27. Nothing brings in hard currency quite like a theater group.

Except perhaps mimes or caricaturists.

[leeroysphitz]

40. +1

[Demo_Chris]

127. lol

[HiPointDem]

34. ridiculous. who is going to frequent these art galleries & coffee shops? that only works if some

real money comes into the city.

and it will; ethnic cleansing is preparing the ground & the artists etc. are coming in for the second phase.

[ErikJ]

39. Artists and indy entrepreneurs are the pioneers for urban renewal.

Cheap rent attracts the artists and artists attract the galleries and coffee shops and it attracts more and more people to live in the area. Then high density mixed housing like condos and student housing etc. The city can really help out by putting in streetcars to serve stimulate more people to live in the area.

[Gravitycollapse]

45. That's not how gentrification works. Impoverished artists move into low rent areas...

The middle and upper class population fund these artists and that then creates a community of wealth consumption generally in the form of bars and restaurants. Which gives incentive for the local police to provide a greater presence along the periphery of these zones of wealth. This drives out lower income residents (read:minorities) further incentivizing upwardly mobile white people to move in. This increases property values, driving up rent and property tax. Poor minorities, who see no job benefits from this movement, can no longer afford to live there and have to move out.

Increased rent further incentivizes the immigration of upwardly mobile persons, encouraging greater policing, the destruction of low income housing and the driving out, through economic and social prejudice, of poor minorities.


This is gentrification. It does not help poor minority communities. It blows them apart.

[ErikJ]

48. Concentrated poverty isnt good for anyone-black or white. Diversity and integration is the result.

Believe it or not there are alot of middle class blacks too, gays, artists and professionals and retired empty nesters etc that want to live in these areas. The poorer blacks and whites tend to move further out to the burbs where they are also integrated and CLOSER to the blue collar labor type jobs.

You want the white collar professionals who tend to work downtown living in the inner city so they dont have to drive 40 miles a day to get to work. That's why they say NYC has one of the lowest carbon footprints in the nation per capita.

[Gravitycollapse]

51. Bullshit. A forced exodus of poor minorities is the result of gentrification.

It is exactly the opposite of integration. It is a white wash.

[ErikJ]

53. Things change my friend. Most inner cities were originally very white and upscale.

And I dont see a lot of anger here about having to move out the burbs for cheaper rent. Thats where the working class jobs are anyway.

[Gravitycollapse]

54. Things certainly changed in your "diverse" city of Portland.

Where non-whites have been pushed out in droves. If that's what you want, if you think bringing in upper class beer and art snobs will make the city better, then by all means gentrify away. But don't pretend that it's going to help poor minorities because it won't.

[ErikJ]

61. Tell that to all the middle class blacks living here then.

They wont believe you. And there are a lot of them too. Whats wrong with having the poor live closer to where the labor jobs are out in the burbs? You dont want them to work or something?

[Gravitycollapse]

66. Are you seriously attempting to justify displacing poor minorities...

from the city by arguing that it makes them closer to their low-wage jobs working for suburbanites?

Is that seriously your argument?

[HiPointDem]

70. in portland ore? it's 6% black, & they aren't all middle class by a long shot.

I bet you're a transplant.

Blacks were 6.8% of p'land's population in 2000, now down to 6.4%.

10% of blacks in P'land were born in another country (like somalia), 86% of black p'land households speak english only.

20% of black households in p'land are female-headed.

67% are renters, only 33% are homeowners.

12.5% are unemployed.

40% over 16 are not in the labor force at all.

25% of the employed have service jobs.

32% get food stamps.

median black p'land household income: $25K.

yeah, all those middle class black people in portland.

http://www.portlandonline.com/portlandplan/index.cfm?a=297948&c=52639

[HiPointDem]

59. Nothing changes, my friend.

[HiPointDem]

58. no, it's not. but the phenomenon you mention doesn't help the resident poor. it just pushes

them somewhere else, where another community of concentrated poverty forms as the non-poor leave the new place to get away from the poor (sometimes for racial reasons, sometimes because of things like drugs and crime, sometimes because they can read the writing on the wall for their schools and property values).

"The poorer blacks and whites tend to move further out to the burbs where they are also integrated and CLOSER to the blue collar labor type jobs."

That is pure BULLSHIT.

[ErikJ]

63. The warehouses and manufacturers are now located in the burbs and the

the wh ite collar jobs ARE MOSTLY DOWNTOWN. I dont know why yuou cant realize that. It means less commuting for all and LESS POLLUTION.

[Gravitycollapse]

67. Are you not comprehending the racist underpinnings of your entire position?

These are human beings you're talking about. And it seems you just want to shuffle them around like chess pieces.

So integration for you is actually not integration at all. It just means pushing out poor minorities so upwardly mobile white people can take over.

[ErikJ]

71. Its mostly young people who like diversity. And they do NOT want to live in the burbs like their

boring parents where nothing happens. More are coming to Portland every month and it cant be stopped. Sorry.

[Gravitycollapse]

73. "Young people who like diversity" is code for upwardly mobile, white college students...

Who wouldn't know what diversity was if it slapped them across the face.

Ask me how I know. Go ahead. Ask me.

[ErikJ]

75. They do here. Lots of blacks and whites living in the inner city.

And in the same neighborhoods. We dont have many frat type college students here though. In fact no frats in the whole city. Mostly hipsters and liberal study types.

[Gravitycollapse]

76. Portland is one of the whitest urban environments in the entire United States.

So what exactly are you speaking of when you talk about diversity and integration?

[ErikJ]

80. Inner NE Portland was almost solid African-American for a long time.

The retail streets were boarded up and lots of concentrated poverty with increasing crime. Things have vastly imporoved for the blacks still there. I dont think they would want to go back to that. Better infrastructure and mass transit, stores with jobs etc etc. The suburbs have lots of small apartment buildings and cheaper housing with blue collar jobs close by for those with less skills. Surely you dont condone concentrating huge areas of poverty with no jobs or hope do you?

[HiPointDem]

86. what crap. you moved to portland 2 minutes ago. you don't know anything about it, as you

are repeatedly demonstrating.

sorry, you're confusing portland with the south bronx or something.

[ErikJ]

88. Moved to Portland in '86 when they just finished the 1st MAX lightrail run.

NE Portland had a pretty ba reputaion is all I can say. Now it and SE is where all the hip kids want to be. They dont even want or NEED cars, most ride their bikes and MAX a lot.

[HiPointDem]

90. bad reputation -- compared to what? bellevue WA?

[Gravitycollapse]

120. You keep talking about "hip" college students. What you're talking about is white people...

Upwardly mobile, 18 to 30 year old white people. That is the product of gentrification. And that is not a good product if what you start out with is an entire community of underpaid, underemployed minorities.

So while you're in here preaching about the economic and social goods of hip joints like cafes and bars, know that what you're actually saying is that you think Portland is better because it's been white washed. That is all you are saying.

White washing. You push out the poor minorities, install a couple "vintage" record stores and some fair trade coffee shops and all of the "diverse" upwardly mobile white people will flock to the district.

[HiPointDem]

77. Portland is 6% black & 32% of them qualify for food stamps; 40% of those over 16 are not in the

labor force, 12.5% are officially 'unemployed'. Median black household income in p'land = $25K.

http://www.portlandonline.com/portlandplan/index.cfm?a=297948&c=52639

Of course there are frats in Portland:

http://www.yellowpages.com/portland-or/fraternities-sororities


when did you move there, last week?

[HiPointDem]

68. baloney. the warehouses and manufacturers are gone, period. that's why they were boarded up.

they didn't move to the suburbs.

suburbs don't have many jobs except retail, they were created as RESIDENTIAL areas. To get away from the 'dirt' of the cities. I don't know why you don't get that.

Now you say the cities are for the clean and the burbs are for the dirty. The only thing that's changed is where the upscale people chose to live.

Dirt always stays where the poor do.

I thought you were just young, but I fear you're actually an apologist.

[HiPointDem]

47. not the same situation. you're thinking of places like nyc in the 70s-80s, where aspiring arty

types and their satellites moved into low-rent borderline neighborhoods existing in the midst of middle-class & upper-middle-class neighborhoods. a city that was still functional, despite poverty, and in fact had *tons* of money & power players in the arts, music, business, etc. -- that could make your career if you got noticed by them. as people like patty smith, mapplethorpe, various music groups, etc. did. Plus, still some jobs for starving artists while they try to make it, and lots of mid-level arty venues (clubs, galleries, etc.) often visited by upper-level people.

It's basically a case of wanna-bes trying to break into the bigtime & putting themselves in the vicinity of big money to do so. And if you look at famous 'arts' groupings, that's the case in all of them except those populated by already rich/connected people (in which case they could afford to go off to the back of beyond, if they chose to).

detroit is a different case.

Median household income: $25K.
33% of families live at or below the poverty line.
Unemployment rate: 16% (down from 28% in 2010, largely because of depopulation & influx of gentrifiers)

Where is the high-level arts scene in detroit?
where are the high-level connections?
where are the mid-level venues?
where is the money?
where are the 'getting-by' jobs?

it's all going to have to be imported to make your 'arts community' thrive. maybe it will be (I think it probably will, because big players have a plan), but the arts community will have no important role. It's the money. It's always the money.

money draws aspiring artists (money or the 'scene' indirectly created by money). not the case that aspiring artists draw money, except in limited situations. powerlessness is always suppliant to power, unless it organizes.

[ErikJ]

49. Ever heard of Motown and White Stripes and dozens of other bands.

The Motor City is famous for its arts and creativity. Generations of car designers lived there. They were the California of the east for a long time. It could easily have a rennaissance.

[HiPointDem]

52. i heard of motown when it actually existed. and detroit was a thriving city with a strong

black middle class at the time.

yes, it *could* have a renaissance. if there were money & jobs.

arty type don't make renaissances unless they have PATRONS WITH MONEY.

That's the secret of the actual renaissance.

sorry, i erased my snarky comments. you actually sound like myself as a young person. i too would see things like arts & music 'scenes' & think 'see, you don't need money!!' with stars in my eyes.

then i figured out how things actually work. without money in the picture, you can go into a ghetto & make art & music until kingdom come. you can be immensely talented, creative -- i meet immensely talented people literally every day.

without money in the picture, the place will remain a ghetto & you will remain unknown except to the locals.

and no one will move into your ghetto because -- it's still a ghetto, albeit a musical one. but poverty has always had its music & art, & no one cared about it or heard about it but the locals until some money came around.

[ErikJ]

57. High density housing and govt help

We had a large area that was old boarded up factories and warehouses. A few old artist lofts were there too. Then the city put millions into developing the area with a street car and lots of loans to developers of high density housing all with street level retail. THousands of suingle professionals and retirees with money have moved in. THis neighborhood has won several national awards for urban planning.

[HiPointDem]

60. So what? Money. What's the big fucking surprise? Money does wonders. high density, low

density, coffee shops, artists' lofts, retail -- whatever.

Money is the common factor. Capital pulls money out, puts it in, moves it around & moves people around like pawns.

Making money with every real estate arbitrage, I might add. Because capital knows *in advance* which areas its going to fund, and which areas it's going to disinvest in.

It's money, not artists. Money, not low or high density housing. Money.

And stupid little hipsters in every generation follow like ants. Until they get wise.

the neighborhood won an *award,* did it? my my how wonderful.

who do you think gives out such 'awards'?

that's right -- money.

[ErikJ]

69. Ever heard of property taxes? That area makes the city tens of millions in property tax revenue.

So it was a good investment. In fact that prop tax revenue is dedicated to improving the 7 other Urban Renewal Areas of the city. Portland in the 70's was dying. Now we're on the comeback and stronger than ever. Portland now has the 2nd highest inbound moving rate in the country.

[HiPointDem]

72. Portland in the 70s was dying? Are you fucking for real? It was in no way dying. I'm a native

of the general area (60 years) & that is pure crapola, my friend.

I'll bet you're a transplant. No way you're a native.

Funny with all that great tax money from those artistic types they can't afford to fund schools, something the 'dying' city managed in the 70s.

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2012/04/budget_cuts_leave_portland_pub.html

[ErikJ]

87. From what I've read, the 70's Portland was lets say, very gritty.

Seattle was the place to be at that time. Now Portland has become more desireable place to live than Seattle.

[HiPointDem]

89. 'from what i've read'. what you've read is crap. portland & seattle were roughly comparable in the

70s, both pleasant places to live.

seattle was not 'the place to be' in the seventies, it was depressed because of boeing layoffs. but it wasn't high crime either.

both got worse in the EIGHTIES. but there were never 'miles' of boarded up storefronts in either.

[ErikJ]

93. There were miles of boarded up streets along Alberta and Mississippi alone.

Now they are full of microbreweries, cafes, head shops, bike shops and boutique shops/galleries.

[HiPointDem]

97. whatever you say, mr transplant.

[thelordofhell]

8. 7. Robocop

If we're going to shoot for the moon, I say we go all the way!!!

[Boom Sound 416]

10. combine 1 - 5

they are together one solution

1. works for employers, but need municipal infrastructure and employee base

2. just a great idea

3. works, but only when you have number 1 one in place

4. debatable

5. see number 2

great post

[HiPointDem]

15. jobs. duh. it's always about jobs, and jobs is apparently the one 'crazy' idea the ruling class

doesn't want to try anywhere.

[missingthebigdog]

121. Got an idea of how to create those jobs???

Obviously, Detroit needs jobs. What do YOU think needs to happen to attract companies that will provide those jobs?

[HiPointDem]

122. 'attract companies' = lol.

[missingthebigdog]

125. I guess I don't understand what is funny.

You either have some ideas, or you don't.

[PETRUS]

128. Well I get it.

So that's one and one. Anybody else?

[Cal Carpenter]

129. +1

It's quite clear.

[Tx4obama]

16. Get a mayor that knows what hell he/she is doing...

and that Mayor needs to add staff to the agency that collects the money that is owed to the city - that agency currently has only 'one' employee.

The above part said by a female city attorney on TV yesterday (except the 'hell' word).

And...

Find what ever money is available to help put the folks out of work back to work fixing the 40% of street lights that do not work, tearing down the condemned homes, etc.

Find volunteers to reopen and work/maintain the 50% of the parks that have been shut down.

[Agnosticsherbet]

24. Declare Detroit a national park, and its citizens an endangered species.

N/t

[phillysquatter]

31. Let squatters fix up the places and call them home!

I'm a squatter in Philly.. I was in the news last week. http://www.citypaper.net/blogs/nakedcity/Squatters-are-raising-funds-to-purchase-their-home-at-PHA-auction.html

[ErikJ]

64. Might be a very good investment. I know a guy who made a million that way.

He bought an old big house in a run down area in Portland in the 1970's for $60,000 and the area was the first gentrified are in Portland. Its now worth about $1 million.

[HiPointDem]

119. apparently you don't know what a squatter is either. So typical of the 'creative' class. They

Last edited Sun Jul 21, 2013, 03:55 AM - Edit history (4)

think buying a property in an area about to gentrify and waiting for it to appreciate is 'investment'.

Tip: pushing out the poor and bringing in the rich by manipulating money isn't 'investment,' it's just moving pawns around the grand chessboard.

At the end of each round of the game, there is the same amount of blight & poor if not more, and no net gain to society. One more expensive coffeeshop here, one less there is not 'investment'. It's waste and financial arbitrage to suck off rents & fees on the switch.

[itsrobert]

56. Build a double wall around it with guards and security monitoring systems

and make it the world's largest prison.

And have Kurt Russel try and escape.

[pa28]

65. The Washington Post is now publishing flippant crap like this instead of serious ideas. Nice to know

Well, here is another idea they might not have considered. Maybe a federally funded re-development authority could employ local residents to demolish condemned structures and re-mediate pollution in brownfield areas.

The scope of work could range from neighborhood scale projects like abandoned and blighted houses all the way to the huge Packard plant that has been sitting empty for decades.

Local companies would do the work and only local workers would be employed.

Would that work better than "going vegan!1" or "giving Detroit to Canada" Washington Post?

[HiPointDem]

118. +100. the leadership of the funny folks at the wapo are the same class of people who created

its problems in the first place, through deliberate disinvestment & their various financial bubbles.

yeah, i'm looking at you, bankster buffett.

[HardTimes99]

123. I too was pretty taken aback at the tone of the piece, aside from the utter

absurdity of the various items. If I were a paid subscriber to the WaPo, about now I'd be cancelling my sub for this utter shit.

I like your suggestion a lot. I would only ask, in addition, what geniuses decided that bailing out privately-owned banks, their share- and bondholders was to be preferred over allowing a municipality and its pensioners and stakeholders to get flushed down the toilet.

The utter deptravity and decadence of the ruling class is fully on display in this WaPo piece, imho.

[brooklynite]

95. 90% of the replies to this post exhibit no understanding of Detroit's situation whatsoever...

...and seem to merely rehash whatever economic/social panacea the authors would like see anywhere.

[ErikJ]

104. Detroit needs a huge federal "Marshal Plan" of urban renewal.

Which will NEVER happen with our current federal govt.

[HardTimes99]

124. George Marshall looks like a friggin' giant compared to the pygmies

who inhabit the legislative branch of our federal government currently.

No offense to pygmies for whom my metaphor does a real disservice.

[pa28]

116. Okaaaay. n/t

[Politicalboi]

105. My guess is

It's going to be pieced out by foreign countries if it hasn't been already real cheap. Or maybe Michigan can become a fracking ground. Just raze it and begin drilling. I am NOT pro fracking, just my guess is all.

[Warren DeMontague]

126. #7: More guys like the one who enjoys having sex with cars.