Anyone seen "Gasland" or "Gasland 2"? I missed the first but watching #2 and I am just sick...

[CurtEastPoint]

I had to stop for a bit.

This fracking is just deadly. Pure death. What these corporate interests are doing to our land and our people is criminal.

[femmocrat]

1. Yes. They are very depressing.

I live in PA in the heart of Marcellus Shale. It just makes me sick what they are doing to our state.

[CurtEastPoint]

3. Dear me. What those people are going through. And it's all over the US

I know we need energy but to exempt those companies from the clean water rules and let them HIDE what they're shooting into our earth is just wrong.

[Champion Jack]

7. I have seen it up close and personal

I have interviewed several people who have had their water poisoned, their land ruined all so that a multinational corporation can turn a profit.

[Mnemosyne]

11. Saw an ad on craigslist titled, 'become a Shaleionaire'(sp). NW Pa. Signs on telephone poles telling

people they are living on a fortune. Gasholes.

[femmocrat]

28. People don't realize all the repercussions of signing those leases.

They just see "free money". However, it's like making a deal with the devil. We refused to sign, but are the only hold-outs. We are surrounded by gasholes.

[benld74]

2. Have seen the 1st one, the 2nd I dvd'd for later on

Yes they are depressing for sure.

[angstlessk]

4. Where did you see Gasland 2..I have been looking for it...but ...alas

[B Calm]

10. It's on HBO this month. I

watched both shows and they're about the same.

[Ilsa]

5. One of the homeowners was convicted of fraud

Because the flaming water hose was hooked up to a gas line.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but throwing in falsehoods doesn't help Josh Fox's case.

Cracking is butt-ugly business, and I firmly believe it creates more problems than it solves. I think the biggest it creates in Texas is with respect to water usage. Texas is in a drought, yet those bastards are using millions of gallons of potable water for tens of thousands of wells. No wonder reservoirs are drying up.

[Champion Jack]

6. The fraud allegation is not true

it is a rightwing gashole meme nothing more

[Ilsa]

13. Possibly, but:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-06-07/texas-judge-steps-aside-in-gas-case-he-used-in-campaign

The judge, Loftin, was an appointee. But he used the case in campaign literature, and since June 2012 lost his primary against Towson, who is now the judge of Texas 23rd District Court. I don't have any new information.

It wasn't a lie about the court case. But the judge, who was probably biased towards Range Resources, ruled for Range Resources and against the Lipskys, Rich, and Fox multiple times. I don't know if the case is complete.

So you are righ: there hasn't been a conviction yet that I know of.

[angstlessk]

9. can you give me a link to that conviction...I googled it..and NOTHING?

[Ilsa]

12. I don't know what you googled, but I got this:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-06-07/texas-judge-steps-aside-in-gas-case-he-used-in-campaign

The judge, Loftin, was an appointee. But he used the case in campaign literature, and since June 2012 lost his primary against Towson, who is now the judge of Texas 23rd District Court. I don't have any new information.

It wasn't a lie about the court case. But the judge, who was probably biased towards Range Resources, ruled for Range Resources and against the Lipskys, Rich, and Fox multiple times. I don't know if the case is complete.

So you are right: there hasn't been a conviction yet that I know of.

[Ilsa]

15. I'm correcting myself: not convicted. But there is a court case.

Texas 23rd District Court, Range Resources accusing the Lipskys, the director Rich, and someone else of committing fraud with respect to the hose/gas.

I haven't heard if he case has concluded yet.

[angstlessk]

16. IF this is what you are talking about...Texas Judge Steps Aside in Gas Case He Used in Campaign

the word HOSE does not show up...except in the context tHOSE...

So what are you talking about?

[Ilsa]

17. There's more...

Earlier this year the new judge has ruled that Range Resources' case against the Lipsky's can proceed, even though it is a countersuit to the Lipsky's claim against Range. Here's one case name to google : Lipsky v. Durant, 11-cv-0798, 43rd District Court of Texas, Parker County.

[angstlessk]

18. I read that too...it is a hose hooked up to his WELL not a gas line..in fact find gas line

on the page....it's not there!

[Ilsa]

21. Here:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02/17/3744111/owner-of-contaminated-water-well.html

In his order, Loftin expressed concern that Lipsky, "under the advice or direction" of Rich, attached a hose to the water well's gas vent -- not to a water line -- and then lit the gas from the hose's nozzle.

Alot of water wells have gas vents for venting methane. These are vents that have been on properties well before there was any drilling. Yes, methane occurs naturally, too, it's not always the result of drilling. If the methane gas vent was needed before RR ever started drilling, then RR is contending that lighting it was an act to distort causation in the documentary. Personally, I doubt any judge in north Texas will give the Lipsky's a fair hearing unless they can prove their initial claim.

I started following this about two weeks ago, but not all of the details. I saw the flaming from the hose; I heard of the Lipsky's suit; I heard about RR's countersuit.

The problems I have with fracking aren't subject to expert opinions from environmental groups or the EPA or Josh Fox. My biggest issue with fracking is that it takes about 1 million gallons of water for each well. In many areas of the US where there are shale plays, there are also droughts. In south Texas, there are reservoirs and aquifers constantly under threat of being too low, and people not having enough clean water to drink.

I also think that the tens of thousands of wells are a blight on the landscape. Use google maps to look deep into south Texas to see it looking like dotted Swiss. Fugly.

I don't know if all of the details of Josh Fox's doc are true. I'd like to see more information before accepting just his word.

[Champion Jack]

25. You really need to get your facts straight, 1 million gallons? try again

Each frack can take from 2 to 7 million gallons of water.
Each horizontal well bore can be fracked up to 15 times.
I have seen one well pad that had 27 legs (bores) coming off of it.
Do the math, remember this is water that can not be returned to the cycle , this is water that has been infused with non biodegradable poisons and in many cases the flowback fluids have radiation levels far exceeding any kind of safe mark. Many times these frack/flowback fluids are deposited in a huge open air pit to evaporate.
Where do the chemicals go? When the pit is dry they bury it with bulldozers. Or they inject the poison laden radioactive fluids deep into the ground (hint same place that the water aquifers live)

It's not just Josh Foxes word, do a little research before you make nonsensical claims
Home values decrease,
http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2012/11/16/duke-researchers-show-dip-home-value-caused-nearby-fracking
insurance companies announcing they won't cover drilling related damage claims, mortgage companies denying mortgages on drilled or mineral leased properties...how much more proof does one need that drilling/fracking is compromising people living in Frack zones?

Ask these people how their lives are different because of the natural gas "boom"
http://pennsylvaniaallianceforcleanwaterandair.wordpress.com/the-list/

Are the people in Dimock making this up?
http://blog.shaleshockmedia.org/2013/07/14/dimock-gas-well-shut-down-due-to-well-water-contamination/

If it's so safe why have so many gag orders (NDA's) been issued?

What it's like to have fracking in your backyard
http://www.alternet.org/environment/you-have-see-it-believe-it-what-its-have-fracking-your-backyard

This happened about 8 miles from here
http://www.alternet.org/fracking/explosion-rocks-natural-gas-drilling-well-marcellus-shale-west-virginia

Not to mention all of the spills and accidents by the safe and clean gas/oil industry
http://www.eenews.net/stories/1059984342

[Ilsa]

31. Thank you for the links.

I initially mis-reported one thing: that there was a fraud conviction on the Lipskys. I corrected myself: It is still in court. RR is contending that the Lipskys attached and lit a hose to the methane venting line from their well. I also said that although the first judge on this case is gone, I doubt the elected judge in Parker Co will give the Lipskys a fair trial.

And yet posters here are accusing me of working for the O&G industry because I approach documentary filmmakers (all of them) with some skepticism and critical thought instead of buying it hook, line, & sinker. What I prefer, is to base my criticisms of fracking on what we know, not just subjective personal stories. I don't need a big dramatic bs scene of a flaring venting line in a documentary film to show me what the problem is.

I'm glad you corrected my 1 million gallons/well usage. I had read a couple of years ago that it was about 1 million, and that had shocked me. I already said that the amount of water used is ridiculous and especially given the drought in Texas, unconscionable. I don't like how this industry is tearing up our county roads and dotting our countryside with large rectangles of blowing caliche, noise, night flares, etc. I don't like that the O&G industry has killed the western Gulf of Mexico ecosystem with both drilling and disposal of waste water and drilling mud. I don't like that this gas is being/will be exported and that it's going to cost more. I don't like that people around the industry are getting sick, but that for some reason it cannot be proven that it's because of fracking.

The information about the insurance industry not covering nearby properties and damages should be a big part of the arsenal to persuade individuals, local and state governments, that fracking ends up costing more than it is worth. I'm glad the residents of NY have convinced their state govt to ban it. Methane occurs naturally there, too, and we certainly don't need more accidentally vented methane in the atmosphere.

So, please excuse me that it wasn't just one million gallons, and that the countersuit is still going on in court. Please, just ban me from DU for making a mistake based on older materials I had read several years ago because I read about it then while the fracking was going on around me.

[angstlessk]

19. Are you here from the fracking industry? None of your stories holds any water...just like

what the fracking industry is doing to wells!

[Ilsa]

22. No, I'm not, but I don't buy every hyped story I see, either based on

One documentary.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02/17/3744111/owner-of-contaminated-water-well.html

In his order, Loftin expressed concern that Lipsky, "under the advice or direction" of Rich, attached a hose to the water well's gas vent -- not to a water line -- and then lit the gas from the hose's nozzle.

Alot of water wells have gas vents for venting methane. These are vents that have been on properties well before there was any drilling. Yes, methane occurs naturally, too, it's not always the result of drilling. If the methane gas vent was needed before RR ever started drilling, then RR is contending that lighting it was an act to distort causation in the documentary. Personally, I doubt any judge in north Texas will give the Lipsky's a fair hearing unless they can prove their initial claim.

I started following this about two weeks ago, but not all of the details. I saw the flaming from the hose; I heard of the Lipsky's suit; I heard about RR's countersuit.

The problems I have with fracking aren't subject to expert opinions from environmental groups or the EPA or Josh Fox. My biggest issue with fracking is that it takes about 1 million gallons of water for each well. In many areas of the US where there are shale plays, there are also droughts. In south Texas, there are reservoirs and aquifers constantly under threat of being too low, and people not having enough clean water to drink.

I also think that the tens of thousands of wells are a blight on the landscape. Use google maps to look deep into south Texas to see it looking like dotted Swiss. Fugly.

I don't know if all of the details of Josh Fox's doc are true. I'd like to see more information before accepting just his word.

[Champion Jack]

23. Exactly

All she does is spread industry lies and bullshit

[Ruby the Liberal]

8. Is this online somewhere?

[Marrah_G]

14. I've seen both

horrifying

[MrMickeysMom]

20. I've fortunately begun getting HBO in time for GL-2's premier... If this doesn't convince others...

.. give up.

This is my Pennsylvania and our earth. Josh Fox presented it well. I'll try to get this into the public library when I can for others who need to see it.

[davidpdx]

24. I haven't seen it yet

But am waiting for a torrent to come up online.

[byeya]

26. Why is the environmental movement - with large entrenched entities like the Sierra Club and NRDC -

not able to stop abuses like this and why after two generations of environmental awareness are we sliding backwards?

[CurtEastPoint]

27. because they dangle $100k in front of landowners

[femmocrat]

29. Becuase the government officials are in the pockets of the gas and oil industries.

I don't have the figures, but Corbutt (PA governon) received large campaign contributions from the frackers. You can look it up if you're interested.

[Champion Jack]

32. That is a large part of it and greed

people still salivate at the prospect of money for nothing and can't look past the thought of a new truck. They don't even want to think about poisoning the water for future generations

[madamesilverspurs]

30. Haven't seen it. Yet.

But I live in the town (Greeley, Colorado) that is the bad example that other communities do NOT want to emulate. We're surrounded by 20K wells in the county, and now those wells are within city limits; quiet neighborhoods are being fracked into decreasing property values, noise, and very real health issues.

Water is an enormous concern as our farmers have been told to cut back on water usage, to let some fields go fallow; meanwhile, frackers suck up billions of gallons of water that becomes permanently toxic in the process. Despite drillers' insistence otherwise, our air is negatively impacted; VOCs daily escape the rigs, our ozone levels keep those of us with breathing problems indoors.

Two of my doctors, both pulmonologists, are very involved in efforts to reduce the negative impacts of an industry that has been given free rein by the all-Republican county commission and the city council with only one non-Republican.

Earlier this year, at yet another city council meeting where we attempted to have our concerns heard, the councillors and mayor were presented with stacks of documents about histories of health impacts from communities devastated by fracking: the mayor set those documents aside, saying "That's irrelevant."

The city and county responses (non-responses, actually) to our concerns have motivated a number of people to run for public office, people who would not otherwise have done so. They have in common the notion that public servants should, at the very least, respect the citizens of the community and listen to their concerns. That said, we well know that we are going up against millions of oil and gas industry dollars; our grassroots campaigns have gained more boots on the ground and we're heavily engaged in working to get some unbought people into our local government. We're hoping that our growing number of Davids will have some impact on the Koch-funded Goliath.

Meanwhile, please follow our efforts at some of these sites:

http://frackcity.blogspot.com/

https://www.facebook.com/DontFrackBroomfield/posts/368300189953446#!/groups/349307651837553/

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Weld-Air-and-Water/524968877562757

https://www.facebook.com/frack.files

[CurtEastPoint]

33. Pretty much sums up the GOP stance. If more $$ isn't involved, ""That's irrelevant."

I'm sorry, Madame, you have to endure this s**t.

[Champion Jack]

37. Youtube link for Gasland 2

Gasland 2 is here

?rel=0
Don't know how long this will be up

[searchingforlight]

34. Probably already been said but -

Any water that is questionable but has been "tested to be safe for drinking" should have to be the only water consumed at the White House, Senate and House for a period of 1 year.


Oh, and in the homes and offices of Halliburton .

[CurtEastPoint]

35. Those companies engineered the Safe Drinking Water law to exempt themselves.

How f'ing corrupt is that?

[searchingforlight]

36. I loved the scene where the congressman wouldn't drink the water offered. Spoke volumes to me.