Four Zimmerman "Bloody Head" shots - all different....

[Junkdrawer]

Original Video (not a drop of blood seen):

&feature=player_embedded

ABC Enhanced Video which supposedly "shows the gash"

Photo the defense released in December:



Photo entered into evidence:



I think Zimmerman manufactured evidence and more than a few people committed perjury.

[COLGATE4]

1. It's over. No amount of conspiracy

theorizing is going to change the result.

[uponit7771]

2. It's not over if you have a child of color, not over a bit...I'll NEVER be over for me. I have to...

...teach my child that because of the color of his skin and the culture he's ascribed to he will be profiled etc.

It aint over for me ... not at the least

[Boudica the Lyoness]

9. I never talked about skin color to my son

He is now close to 40, family man and career military. I don't believe in chipping their shoulders.

[uponit7771]

55. I live in America and tell my kids the truth.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

95. I live in America

My son was born in Washington DC....DC General in the 70's.

[BainsBane]

96. African Americans HAVE to teach their children

how to behave around cops so as not to get killed. They don't have the luxury of not talking about it.

[Nye Bevan]

110. How to behave around cops is an important lesson for ALL kids (nt)

[COLGATE4]

107. That isn't the point of this discussion. I am only

referring to the judicial process of the State v Zimmerman. There's nowhere left that this can go - no appeal, no new trial.

[Junkdrawer]

3. A little something for Holder to investigate...n/t

[COLGATE4]

7. What would that have to do with

anything that Holder might be investigating? (Holder's only chance to bring a Federal prosecution is if he can find enough evidence to show that Z's actions were caused by racial animus. Z's head wounds wouldn't be relevant to that inquiry).

[premium]

21. I wish people here would learn the relevant laws,

so much grasping, so little time.
You're 100% correct, these photos have no relevance at all as far as a civil rights charge, the DoJ has to prove that Zimmerman shot killed Trayvon because of racial hatred, of which there is zero evidence of that.
Hell, even their own FBI discounted that.

[COLGATE4]

79. I hear you loud and clear. But it's like talking

to a wall.

[premium]

23. Investigate what?

This would be irrelevant to a Fed. civil rights violation charge, the DoJ has to prove that Zimmerman killed Trayvon because he had a racial hatred towards AA's, what real evidence is there of that?

[COLGATE4]

106. This is frustration meme #3 -

Holder can only bring charges if he can find actual proof that Z acted out of racial animus. Not only is a state of mind very difficult to prove in court - the FBI actually has conducted an investigation about that very subject. It found no evidence of it.

[olddots]

5. thankyou authoritarian ---case closed

n.t

[COLGATE4]

6. Nothing authoritarian about it. Just

factual.

[olddots]

33. to think critically include questioning your own authority

" factual " ? yuh . you were there .

[COLGATE4]

76. No. It's a fact that it's over. Nothing is going

to change that. Getting wound up over conspiracy theories doesn't do anyone any good.

[LanternWaste]

19. I imagine your opinion will be given all the validity it actually warrants...

I realize that many people feel discussing a past issue is effectual; however, those same discussions held in numerous places by numerous people may affect future change in like circumstances.

Regardless, I imagine your opinion will be given all the validity it actually warrants...

[COLGATE4]

81. Discussing a past issue may indeed have value. What

doesn't have any value is trying to concot ever-increasingly desperate 'conspiracy' theories to try and explain what took place in a totally unrealistic hope that somewhere, somehow this is all going to turn out different.

[FarPoint]

104. The Prosecution treated this case

as if it were Petty theft....they only went through the motions. I support a community investigation as it provides satisfaction.

[COLGATE4]

105. Do you really consider a bunch of people

exchanging theories on DU a community investigation?

[Logical]

108. I am starting to think you just like making people mad. n-t

[COLGATE4]

114. No. I just have little tolerance for

hyped and bombastic chest beating in place of reasoned argument supported by facts.

[Logical]

115. No, just like causing crap. n-t

[FarPoint]

111. Apparently you don't, so why even ask?

Oh..I know...to be an antagonist....why of course. Healthy debate is encourage....

[uponit7771]

4. Yeap, looks like the wounds of someones head whose been bashed against concrete 20 times. I wish the

...PA would've done an analysis on this.

No ME worth there salt would claim his head was bashed against concrete

[naaman fletcher]

8. I agree

That the injuries aren't that bad, but that is not the argument here.

The argument going on is that OP and other seem to deny that any sort of fight occurred at all and that these pictures are all forgeries.

[Junkdrawer]

10. Didn't deny that any sort of fight occurred. I said perjury and manufactured evidence. n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

13. Then submit the findings to something more authoritative than a message board. nt

[premium]

26. So, have you contacted the DoJ yet with your findings?

If not, why not?

[Rex]

35. Funny ain't it? How the omit what you are saying and try putting words

in your mouth. Zimmerman worshipers are the worst imo.

[avebury]

17. I don't doubt at all that there was a scuffle.

What bothers me is that everyone buys into GZ's story without really looking at his credibility. It was clearly shown during the trial that GZ was a liar. It is clear that some of the jurors could not get past poor George, had a right to defend himself and, in the process, failed to really really weigh all of the testimony and evidence.

I think the scuffle occurred because GZ was determined that, for once, this a**hole was not going to get away. He probably came across like a nut to the victim because GZ never identified himself. The scuffle was all about TM trying to get away from this nut, GZ thinking "Not this time". GZ panicking and shooting TM. I never bought the story that GZ had the gun holstered. It was in the dark, in the rain, poor visibility, no idea if the person he was following was armed, GZ does not even know how to throw a punch - therefore, the gun was most likely already out. The damage to GZ's was most likely the result if the kickback of the gun. GZ may have had some gun training but he was not the par of a LEO or military person. I don't think that his brain was operating on all cylinders that night.

To me one of the biggest physical tells was what one of the witnesses stated during her testimony. After the shooting, GZ had one hand on his head and one on his hip. This posture tells me that he is thinking "Oh SHIT! What have I done! How am I going to get myself out of this mess?"

I have no respect for the jury or their verdict. They didn't waste much time going from 3 Guilty / 3 Innocent to 6 Not Guilty. It is obvious that some of the jurors caved to the pressure of the rest of the panel.

[avebury]

11. If GZ's head had actually been bashed into the concrete 20-30

times I seriously doubt that he would have been able to get up and walk & talk coherently afterwords. He only went to a doctor later on to get a release to return to work which is very interesting given the testimony on one of the defense witnesses.

According to his female co-worker/friend, he was off work for FMLA. As a part of my job I am an HR liaison for the Division I work in and am ample experience in dealing with HR issues, including FMLA. If, as the witness testified to, GZ was out on FMLA there is no way he should be have qualified for it by his employer as he did not meet the criteria of what qualifies for FMLA leave. I would have loved to hear more about that because it lends an additional blow to GZ's credibility.

I believe that the jury was actually an uninformed group that focused on poor George and didn't really pay attention to a lot of the evidence in testimony. I listened to most of the trial and, based upon my educational and employment background and real life experience I picked up on a lot of stuff during the trial that really caught my attention. I would not be surprised if a lot of stuff went right over the jurors' heads. If they had had at least one juror who was very analytical and could really get into putting all of the pieces together, pointing out discrepancies, and had real world experience applicable to aspects of the case - I think the verdict would have been different, a hung jury at minimum. It is sad that we ended up with a jury of lemmings that just chose to go off the cliff together.

[uponit7771]

48. +1

[blm]

92. Rihanna's pictures showed more of a beating.

And funny that the blood trail runs FORWARD instead of back, since Zimmerman claimed he was pinned back while his head was pounded against the ground.

[Nevernose]

99. She testified that 20 times was impossible

And that Zimmerman had had a full head of hair, he wouldn't have even received that scratch.

[Lurks Often]

12. So explain why so many people would risk jail time to cover for Zimmerman?

[Junkdrawer]

14. Because they lied to cover earlier lies to cover earlier lies....

Add to that Zimmerman's dad seemed to have a juicy piece of blackmail. I say that because Zimmerman was about to be charged with manslaughter, his dad called in the Police Chief Bill Lee who had the DA drive 40 miles, and then we had a long series of misdeeds including witness tampering and Zimmerman's release on SYG.

[Bay Boy]

15. All for a lousy magistrate?

Magistrates are the courts equivalent to the police department's meter maid.

[onenote]

25. He did it for a Zimmerman's father who lived in another town?

What magical hold would Zimmerman's father have over the Police Chief in another town? What evidence is there that Zimmerman's father and the Police Chief knew each other?

(And please don't say its because Zimmerman's father was a "judge" -- an assertion that has been debunked dozens of times. Zimmerman's father had served -- from 2000 to 2007, I believe -- as a "magistrate" in Manassas Virginia (over 800 miles away from Sanford for what its worth). A magistrate in Virginia is not a judge. Has no trial jurisdiction. Doesn't have to be a lawyer. At the time Zimmerman's father served, couldn't even handle a traffic ticket.

I think the police screwed up. I think the jury should have reached a different verdict. But making up tinfoil "blackmail" theories without a shred of evidence only undermines the legitimate arguments about what went wrong here.

[Lurks Often]

41. I never cease to be amazed at how far some people are willing to go

to rationalize their belief in a conspiracy theory because they don't like what the facts are.

[premium]

46. Ain't that the truth,

yesterday it was jury tampering, today it's........................

[backscatter712]

20. The cops don't fear jail much. n/t

[Lurks Often]

43. Maybe or maybe they didn't cover for Zimmerman

which is a far more likely explanation.

[ksoze]

16. This will be a stellar sales day for Reynolds Aluminum

More tin foil hats here than at a UFO convention.

[Junkdrawer]

18. Damn my lying eyes. But one mention of tinfoil cleared them right up.

Thanks

[Rex]

24. Ya seems like the Zimmerman defenders are out in force today.

Protecting their hero.

[premium]

28. Nobody defending what Zimmerman did,

we're debunking the myth that this is evidence for the DoJ to file civil rights charges, which it isn't.

[Rex]

29. Then maybe I wasn't talking about you.

Funny you seem to think you had to reply.

[premium]

36. Oh, I been accused of being a Zimmerman supporter many times.

The point is that people get all excited, without really know what the hell they're talking about, that some "new piece of evidence" is the gotcha moment, like this thread, when it's irrelevant to any Fed. civil rights charge.

[Rex]

37. Trust me, if I thought YOU were one I would say so.

Don't just assume that everyone that defends him is like you. I sure don't.

[premium]

39. Point taken.

Thanks.

[Skittles]

101. it's part of their paranoia, Rex

yup

[uponit7771]

51. By indicating these injuries came from where he said they did DOES defend Z

[premium]

54. No, it's not defending Zimmerman, an if you think that,

that's your problem, I'm saying that this is not relevant to a finding of a Fed. civil rights violation charge.

[uponit7771]

58. So you BELIEVE Zimmerman?! REALLY?! That in and of itself is indefensible... then there's

...no rational person on EARTH who would believe his head was bashed on concrete even ONCE!!

[premium]

66. Nice misrepresentation of my words.

Show me 1 link where I EVER said that I believed Zimmerman.
I said that these photos are NOT relevant to the finding of a Fed. civil rights violation charge, for the DoJ file charges, they HAVE to prove that Zimmerman killed Trayvon because he was racially motivated, got any solid proof of that?
The FBI doesn't think so, the State of FL. didn't think so, the Martin family didn't thinks so, so, where is the proof?

I believe Zimmerman criminally profiled him, but that's not a violation of Fed. civil rights.

[Rex]

22. Wow, no need to be so snarky

You still mad bro?

[HangOnKids]

78. Don't quit your day job

Your attempt at being clever falls quite flat.

[erpowers]

27. Does Not Seem Consistent With Head Hitting Concrete

George Zimmerman's injuries do not look consistent with someone having their head smashed against concrete. Those injuries seem to be very small.

[datasuspect]

30. concrete makes "rashy" or "scapey" wounds

[uponit7771]

62. yeap, and a head SMASHED against concrete makes one feel like driving home too... Z's story

..is bunk all the way around

[datasuspect]

67. i've had my ass kicked in parking lots

and my head bashed into the pavement.

it required an ER visit.

multiple stitches, ambulance ride.

if i shot all the people who ever punched me in the mouth, there'd be a lot of dead motherfuckers out there.

[uponit7771]

86. +1 shooting someone after takin an azz whoopin is so [something negative]

[datasuspect]

87. zimmerman was a fake tough guy

a two bit punk.

he probably pissed his pants once he realized he fucked up.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

97. According to Zimmerman

his head was hit against the edge of the cement sidewalk.

[Junkdrawer]

32. And nothing is consistent. n/t

[Igel]

31. We usually go with the more detailed image.

If I take a picture of the Sun, it won't show sunspots.

If I enhance it, it'll show smudges.

If I get better equipment, it'll show sunspots rather clearly.

And if I piddle with false color images, I could probably get some truly stunning shots.

Same reality.

First video, grainy. You could argue that the police car doesn't actually have a license-plate number. Ignore the Young Turks' hyperbole. They get so much wrong that it's not worth dignifying their talk with listening.

Second video, enhanced. You could argue that there's something on GZ's head. And yeah, there are actual symbols on the license plate. Enhancing things has a risk. But if there's no good counterevidence apart from the graininess of the original image (not even a theoretical objection), then you have to consider it.

The last two pictures match up rather nicely, actually. There's blood where you expect it in the 3rd picture given what's in the fourth picture. Still can't tell how long a few are, or how deep, but there are definitely marks there. And they agree with the enhanced video. You can take that as improper "editing" (how dare the video show the same thing--it must be altered) or not.

I had a deer-hunting roommate who said that the hardest thing when he was a kid was not "growing antlers on a doe."

[Junkdrawer]

38. Don't see it. 2nd video, 3rd and 4th picture don't match....

Nope.

[blm]

74. Funny how the blood flowed forward instead of back when Zim said he was pinned down

,

[sinkingfeeling]

34. I wish somebody would explain why if he was on the bottom, with his back on

the ground, the blood ran forward (see pictures 3 and 4 above).

[Rex]

40. The trajectory of the bullet was from

two people facing off against each other. Not two people on the ground fighting. Of course there must have been a fight, otherwise why would Zimmerman kill Martin with his gun?

[sinkingfeeling]

45. What does that have to do with Zimmerman's blood flowing in the opposite

direction? Even if he was standing up the blood should have flowed downward toward his shirt collar. The blood in those two pictures is flowing forward around his ears. Would not happen if he were lying flat on his back nor standing up right.

[naaman fletcher]

47. That's not what the forensics experts testified

Glad you know better.

[Rex]

52. LOL!

Yes the expert for the defense said that. It seems you know nothing and can only use half truths to make any kind of claim. Not that you would believe anything that was not in defense of Zimmerman, you clearly have his best interest at heart.

[naaman fletcher]

59. I have said nothing on behalf of Zimmerman

I think he's guilty. I just live in the world of reality whereas you make up conspiracy theories that neither the defense nor the prosecution not any witnesses agree with.

[Junkdrawer]

44. When you lean forward with an eyedropper of stage blood....

You'd get the 3rd. 4th is more convincing, but doesn't match any of the others.

But the marks ARE red in the last three, and I guess that's good enough.

[ksoze]

49. Stage Blood? This is embarrasing.

The other boards must be having a ball with these grasping conspiracy threads. Has the understandable anger over the verdict morphed into this?

[Rex]

56. Your poutrage at others POV is funny!

Must suck living in your black and white world.

[premium]

61. So it seems. nt.

[nebenaube]

91. it is kind of bright for being dry. n/t

[Rex]

57. People don't care, they just want to defend their hero

and dam anything obvious. Some of them sound exactly like juror B37. What a surprise. NOT.

[uponit7771]

63. +1

[Duer 157099]

70. Could be the path of least resistance

He has a bumpy skull, if the blood is slowly following the path of least resistance, I think it should end up behind the ears, even when in an upright position?

[NickB79]

98. By all accounts, the struggle lasted seconds

And yet, the blood would have flowed for minutes afterwards, until a compress was applied to allow the blood to clot. Superficial head wounds are known for this.

This meant that the blood would have had only seconds to flow backwards (while he was on his back) but minutes to flow in other directions once he was up and moving around again, once the police arrived and had him sit down, etc.

The direction of the blood flow does not in any way suggest any conspiracy, unless you think Zimmerman kept lying on the ground from the moment his scalp was cut to the time the blood stopped flowing minutes later.

[Avalux]

42. The actual 'injuries' are a couple of minor superficial scrapes.

What looks different is the blood pattern - pic #3 appears to be a lot worse than it is because of the blood, which may or may not have been 'enhanced'. The last pic looks to be the most realistic. Can't explain that pic #1 appears to show no injuries to Zimmy.

A superficial abrasion to the scalp will bleed profusely, which can automatically make a lay person think it's serious.

[grantcart]

50. When I was about his age I was walking with several people and went through a door with

a hanging armistice that had broken off (for self closing).

I felt it nick my head and we continued to walk around and I watched as my companions began to stare at me with some degree of horror the more we walked.

I put my hand up and touched my scalp and it was covered in blood.

It was a very minor nick but it produced a significant stream of blood.

I don't think he was smart enough to manufacture anything.

He had some bruises but neither he nor the police thought it was significant at the time and he wasn't treated for it.

[Junkdrawer]

53. It's the different patterns I'm seeing....

Hard to explain....

[Rex]

60. Maybe they stopped bleeding, then magically started again some how.

And defied gravity in the process.

[Junkdrawer]

65. Remember, all bleeding has to stop before the first video...

and that, if memory serves, was not much longer than the drive time to the station.

Unless you buy ABC's "enhanced" video. But then you have to explain why it's pattern doesn't match any of the photos.

[Rex]

68. Yeah I remember us looking at the footage as soon as it was available

and asking why the blood looked like monkey's blood. Of course we got screamed at and shouted down.

And of course ALL of them ignore the fact that Zim refused medical treatment RIGHT AFTER getting his head bashed into concrete...which no normal person would do!

[Rex]

64. Doesn't matter to some here, they are proud their hero

blew away an unarmed kid. They take pride in it and it is disgusting. I would say they should be shamed, but the shame gene seems to be lacking.

[naaman fletcher]

77. Except you are making that up

There is not a single poster in this thread who doesn't think he shouldn't have been convicted

[Rex]

112. Funny you would reply to that.

Sure whatever, pretend otherwise I don't care.


EDIT - oh, you cannot reply cuz you got shitcanned son!

Now go back to trollcave central and cry like a little child about DU! Pathetic, the gun trolls need to find a new hobby.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

69. It doesn't matter that he had a bloody head.

That he had a bloody head did not prove that Trayvon ambushed him, which is the only way that Zimmerman could legitimately claim self-defense. All it proved was that there may have been some sort of physical altercation between the two. Fine. That doesn't mean Zimmerman was acting in self-defense.

And none of these injuries were life threatening. All we have is an a) bloody nose, b) 2 cm abrasion and c) 0.5 cm abrasion.

Zimmerman claimed his head was bashed into concrete 10-30 times. There's no way that those injuries are indicative of it. None of the medical testimony supported his head being bashed into concrete for that amount of time, not even the defense.

So Trayvon had no gun, no knife and the evidence doesn't support his story of repeatedly getting his head slammed into concrete.

Tell me again why Zimmerman was in fear for his life?

[Duer 157099]

71. If the prosecutors had been really smart

they could've used this as a vivid demonstration of how 3 cameras (as objective a witness as possible) could tell 3 different stories. If cameras can do that (and they can, because their optics all differ) then how much moreso the eyewitnesses such as Good?

I think all those images show the same thing, the only real thing they show is how variable the optics are.

[Junkdrawer]

72. That's more than optics....

way more.

[Duer 157099]

75. Can you clarify?

I'm no Z apologist, not by a long shot, so this isn't about that.

Do you think I can't take the 4th image and in photoshop manipulate it to look like #3? I haven't tried, but I think I could.

[Junkdrawer]

80. Not without adding more "blood trails".

There are blood trails in the fourth that are not in the third and vice versa.

[Duer 157099]

84. I think the sites of the cuts (and suspected sites) were blotted to see the extent of the injury

so the blood in those areas has been removed. The blood trails otherwise are the same, no?

[Junkdrawer]

93. Again to get from 3 to 4 you would need to wash the head and then re-bleed with drips....

going down the side of the head. And THEN all of that would need to be cleaned thoughly before the arrival at the police station. And even with all that, there are smears in 4 that would go unexplained.

And that's just with a cursory look at the twp pics.

[Duer 157099]

94. Not so

I did a careful look and there's no question that if I had the time, I could convince you too. But I don't have the time right now.

[kathysart_decoration]

83. Black eyes?

I have never had a broken nose or been in a fight of any kind, however, my understanding is that if your nose is broken, you will, eventually, have black eyes (, or eye) If Zimmerman really had been beaten up by Martin, it seems to me that he would have gone out of his way to have his black eyes (as a result of the beating) photographed. He didn't even consent to any follow-up x-rays. No surprise.
The other problem, as I see it, is that as I understand it, he (zimmerman) had his head slammed into concrete numerous times - maybe as much as 20 times (someone will correct me if I am wrong.)
Had he actually had his head slammed into concrete that many times - even 1 time would have been quite a bit more damaging, he would probably be:
1) Dead
2)Had at least a concussion or skull fracture-which he didn't and why he didn't want to get x-rays taken.
3) Had, at the very least, considerably more damage done than a few "scratches." I don't know how you get "scratches" from someone smashing your head into concrete.
I never understood why this wasn't questioned by the Prosecution, who are suspect in many ways as far as I am concerned.

[PearliePoo2]

85. correct!

+1
that's the way I see it also!

[bushisanidiot]

88. also, the scratches aren't in the right place on his skull. the injuries should be at the base

or middle of the skull, not toward the top. and they wouldn't be 2 small pinpricks that bleed a lot.
they would be large/wide abrasions with bruising.

does anyone know if an ambulance was called for either trayvon or for zimmerman?
if not, the police should be suspect of tampering or covering up evidence.
when there is head trauma or especially a bullet wound, an ambulance should have
arrived and taken both parties to the hospital for proper medical treatment.

[ksoze]

89. The medical report has black eyes and closed nose fracture

(CNN) -- A medical report by George Zimmerman's family doctor shows the neighborhood watch volunteer was diagnosed with a fractured nose, two black eyes and two lacerations on the back of the head after his fatal confrontation with Trayvon Martin.

Also, the walking video he did the next day show him with black eyes.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/16/justice/florida-teen-shooting

[premium]

90. You can't introduce that.

That's not credible, it's the family doctor.

The criminal aspect of this case is over, there will be no Fed. charges, civil suit? Who knows.

[HiPointDem]

102. i didn't see anything with black eyes. & black eyes last for weeks.

[TorchTheWitch]

100. not this nonsense again

For heaven's sake, one really crappy video where you can't see anything BECAUSE IT'S A CRAPPY VIDEO trying lamely to pretend Zimmerman didn't have two little head booboos is just stupid. For the umpteenth time, IT DOESN'T MATTER. He had two bitty little lacerations on the back of this head that are not consistent with how he said he got them. They existed. They were there. They were photographed at the scene by Mr. Manalo (the Asian guy with the flashlight) with his own personal camera phone and at the police department later that same night. They were seen and reported by EMS at the scene who did not such a great job of cleaning up the blood. They were seen and reported and testified to by Zimmerman's doctor the next day. They were seen and reported by several people in their court testimony. There's no reason to pretend they didn't exist. It makes you look ridiculous.

One more time: The FACT they existed is not the POINT. The fact that those two bitty little lacerations on the back of his head did not at ALL reflect how he claims he got them IS the point.

[HiPointDem]

103. here's a better one: two photos supposedly taken the same night within hours of each other.

On December 3rd, 2012 the Defense in the George Zimmerman case released this color photo of Zimmerman taken the evening the defendant shot and killed Trayvon Martin. According to official State documents, the photo was taken by Officer Michael Wagner of the Sanford Police at 7:31PM on the evening of February 26, 2012. Zimmerman had been taken into custody by SPD officer Timothy Smith, handcuffed and placed in the back seat of Smith’s squad car. Zimmerman had not yet been seen by the paramedics, who would later clean up and dress his wounds. Wagner took the photo with his personal iPhone4. According to the records, he took the phone home, uploaded the photo to his computer, erased it from the phone, and then forgot that he had it. He claims he only remembered having the photo some three weeks later when the investigators on the case mentioned that they had no pictures of Zimmerman’s injuries before he was attended to by the EMTs. On March 18th, 2012, Wagner turned the photo over to the investigators via email.



This is another photo taken the same night, hours later.







http://whonoze.wordpress.com/2013/06/29/wagner1/

[pintobean]

109. Woo from someone (whonoze) who obviously didn't

see all the testimony about that photo.

[HiPointDem]

113. such as?