So how would you feel if...

[rrneck]

someone followed you around all day with a clipboard taking note of everyone you talked to, everywhere you went, the kind of stuff you buy, and all those activities were logged with the time you spent on each activity? Wherever you are right now, look over your shoulder and imagine that someone standing there making notes.

So why is it when the process of data collection is made several orders of magnitude more efficient and the data collected several orders of magnitude easier to archive and search less of a concern?

[upaloopa]

1. Because it is not evident and we don't know all the details

[rrneck]

3. I see your point,

but that doesn't make it less of a concern. It just makes the intrusion seem more remote.

[geckosfeet]

7. Less intrusive. To the point of being stealthy.

I think that if everytime our com was being monitored or recorded we got a popup, text message, email or audible signal on the phone we would be A LOT more concerned.

[polichick]

2. Afraid I'd have to say "Fuck off!" in either case.

[Safetykitten]

4. Most people working retail have this happening anyway.

[FSogol]

5. You mean like a boss?

Kidding aside, there was a post earlier this week on DU, where someone was shocked that the grocery store (and Smithsonian magazine) knew he purchased a copy and sent him a subscription offer. Of course, he didn't see the connection between his discount rewards card and what was happening. He suspected the NSA when in reality he gave that info away for discounts on groceries.

[rrneck]

6. Those reward card things irritate me.

Shopping at a particular place is not a "reward" for the shopper, but for the retailer. So the semantics annoy the hell out of me. Also, they push that shit on you telling you that it's "free" and will get me discounts. I have thought to ask them if giving them my personal information costs me nothing to relinquish it but I get "discounts for membership", rather than discounts I would offer to sell them the information on the spot for cash. If you want to give me something for my information, reach in the cash drawer and give me the amount of money I would save by giving them the information and I will decide if I want to spend it in the store. Let's find out how much that little formality is actually worth.

[FSogol]

8. One day when leaving my local Giant, I found one of those cards on the ground

and have used it ever since (8 years?). I can only hope that the poor slob who lost it loves all the beer ads that must be coming his way thanks to me.

[Whiskeytide]

9. But the person with the clip board is there...

... and always has been there since we shifted into the technology era. If I carry and use my smart phone, or if I use my credit card or debit card, or if I use a grocery discount card, or if I use a GPS navigation system in my car, or if I order a movie on Netflix, .... well, then I'm an idiot if I don't realize that someone, somewhere is recording and storing data about that activity. My phone, credit card, etc... won't work otherwise.

If I send an email from my computer to someone else's computer, I have to come to terms with the fact that the data that makes up that email has to be electronically processed and shot through cyberspace in order to be received by the recipient - and that necessarily leaves a trail. And if I visit DU, my internet provider can't get me there (here, I guess) without knowing that's where I'm going and where I want to be. And I can't post this message without that same provider having to run it through their system - thus creating an electronic record of the post.

I can chose not to do any of these things, and I suppose the person with the clip board then disappears. But otherwise they're there, and have always been there, and they're not going to go away as long as I do those things. Ever. They are one and the same, essentially.

Now, if we want to have a discussion about what "clip board guy" CAN DO with that data, I think that's the discussion to have. Can the retailers I do business with use it to market products to me? Can the info - which is quite valuable from a marketing perspective - be sold to others for that purpose without my knowledge or consent? Does my "terms of use" agreement for my phone or my credit card give my consent to such things? Can the government get access to the data for national security concerns or criminal investigation activities? What kind of due process hoops need to be jumped through to address that?

Those are some of the questions that the explosion of technical know how and services have left in a trail of dust, and we have done a piss-poor job of catching it up - so far, anyway. But deciding whether or not "clip board guy" is gonna be there ...? Sorry. It's too late for debate on that one.

[RobertEarl]

10. Clipboard is there, correct whiskey

The thing is, it is our government that has the wherewithal to compile all the clipboards into one giant clipboard.

So are we, as the people, going to allow our governors to compile all of the info, or are we going to make sure all the info stays uncompiled?

I say we do not allow the info to be compiled. Keep it all separated and diffused and used only in direct applications and only for matters of national security.

[Whiskeytide]

12. I agree...

... But its not just the government that has that where-with-all or motive to collect and compile this information on us. There is tremendous commercial value to our data, and that motivates corporate America to get busy compiling it. If I market backpacks, and I could purchase a data base of the phone numbers, email addresses and shopping habits of all the people who have purchased a backpack in the last 5 years, how much would that be worth to me? Hell, John Q. Consumer wouldn't have even realized he needed a new backpack until he got that email from BackPacksRUs!!!

Now, obviously, the FBI would be interested in that info too, say, right after backpacks were used to plant bombs at the Boston Marathon, right? But there is not a lot of money in it for the Gov. The real money is in the commercial value of our data. So the Gov lets the entrepreneurial sector do the work compiling it, and then just sends them a subpoena - or not, who knows - and avails themselves of the data in the interest of "keepin' us safe".

That's the real obstacle to a solution. Folks are making a lot of money, and the Gov doesn't really mind who's privacy rights they are trampling because they benefit too.

[rrneck]

11. If "clipboard guy" were actually there

you could tell him go to away or punch his lights out. Much like a preindustrial village where everyone knows everyone's business, you know who knows you. Now, we don't know who knows us or how they will use that information.