HFCS and YOU

[DainBramaged]

A 'fake' sweetener because it's cheap. Some say (without qualification) it's no different than sugar (cane, beet, etc.) and doesn't react in the body any differently than sugar, Sugar is sugar even when it's "corn sugar" . By the way, sugar is sweet and needs no further processing, (ever chew on a sugar cane?) raw or white. HFCS isn't aweet without further processing (ever chew on a corn stalk?)

Many scientific studies, to the consternation of it's defenders everywhere, show it has harmful effects, and if it DIDN'T have any unwanted effects (unlike sugar) why are so many food manufacturers eliminating HFCS from their foods?


http://www.sugar.org/


The Lawsuit Against the Corn Refiners’ False Advertising
The Sugar Association has expanded its website to provide the public with information about several related, ongoing efforts to obtain rulings that impact public policy as it relates to high fructose corn syrup (HFCS), to broaden public awareness and encourage public participation.

HFCS is a food ingredient that has become widely used as a replacement for natural sugar during the past 40 years—the very period during which obesity, diabetes, and other metabolic diseases have been on the rise.

Whether there is a cause-and-effect relationship is a matter to be settled by science, not by market power, and The Sugar Association leaves it up to informed individuals to decide for themselves which they would rather consume, based on the available facts.

http://www.sugar.org/cra-lawsuit/


Several years ago, Archer-Daniels-Midland (ADM), Cargill and other manufacturers of high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) acknowledged that “HFCS and sugar differ in many significant respects and cannot be considered ‘like products.’”

A few years after a 2004 publication in which leading researchers suggested that HFCS may be linked to obesity, these same HFCS manufacturers, through their trade group, the Corn Refiners Association (CRA), launched a multi-million dollar advertising campaign claiming that HFCS is "nutritionally the same as table sugar" and that "your body can’t tell the difference."

The lawsuit led by Western Sugar Cooperative—explained in detail elsewhere on this website—charges ADM, Cargill, other CRA members and the CRA itself with false advertising by making these assertions of nutritional and metabolic equivalence.

The reason for the lawsuit is simple: There is an ongoing controversy among scientists about these subjects, which the advertising fails to mention. Some scientists—with no connection to anyone within the sugar industry—have published studies that demonstrate clear differences in how the human body processes sugar and HFCS. Even those researchers who have received funding from the CRA and dispute the existence of meaningful differences between HFCS and sugar have also readily admitted that their effects on the body remain the subject of debate and further analysis.


http://www.sugar.org/cra-lawsuit/science-other-facts/


Thank you

44 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	I do not believe it is the same and try to avoid it
	36 (82%)
	I don't care
	3 (7%)
	Sugar is sugar no matter where it comes from
	4 (9%)
	I have something further to add, pro or con
	1 (2%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. I'm lucky

I live in the UK; HFCS is almost unknown here. But the UK has an obesity rate that's not far behind the USA's; 26% vs 33%, which indicates that other factors besides HFCS are causing the observed increase in obesity (sedentary lifestyles are probably more to blame than anything).

[dipsydoodle]

2. I thought C6H12O6 was C6H12O6

more or less regardless of its origin.

[DainBramaged]

3. The sugar association thinks otherwise......

http://www.sugar.org/cra-lawsuit/science-other-facts/


The lawsuit

http://www.sugar.org/cra-lawsuit/wp-content/uploads/legal_docs/11_1118_WS_-_54_-_FILED_2ND_AMENDED_COMPLAINT.pdf#page=11

[Major Nikon]

129. The link claims no such thing

C₆H₁₂O₆ = C₆H₁₂O₆

[Spider Jerusalem]

4. Except table sugar (from sugar cane and beet) is C12H22O11

sucrose, not fructose.

[FarCenter]

25. Sucrases secreted by the lining of the small intestine convert sucrose to glucose + fructose

C12H22O11 + H2O --> C6H12O6 + C6H12O6

After hydrolysis, the glucose and fructose molecules pass through the intestinal wall into the blood stream. So sucrose is equivalent to a 50-50 mixture of glucose and fructose by the time it gets into your bloodstream.

In normal people, there is enough sucrase that the rate of the hydrolysis step would not decrease the glycemic index of sucrose relative to a mixture.

In the case of either sucrose or HFCS, the glucose is used directly by tissues throughout the body, while the fructose goes to the liver for further processing like most other food biochemicals.

There is a genetic disease where people do not secrete enough sucrase to hydrolyze sucrose. This causes digestive upset when cane or beet sugar is eaten, similar to that of people who cannot digest lactose in milk, due to an insufficiency of lactase.

Corn syrup is almost 100% glucose. So that should be your sweetener of choice if you want to avoid fructose. The reason that HFCS is converted to be 55% fructose is that fructose has a sweeter taste than glucose.

[hedgehog]

45. and cooks and bakers know that replacing cane sugar with beet

sugar in some recipes (cakes, preserves) will give you different results.

[Warpy]

136. I never found a difference between one form of crystallized sucrose

and another depending on their plant of origin, so that's interesting to me. I do notice most of the stuff in the market is labeled "pure cane sugar." I imagine beet sugar is used mostly in convenience foods.

In any case, it's turbinado sugar in my hot tea, thanks. It's got just enough of its original molasses to give it a special flavor.

[hedgehog]

154. I think it's a result of crystal size - beet sugar tends to be much finer -

we used some making jelly and couldn't get it to gel!

[BainsBane]

55. blood glucose levels spike more dramatically

after ingesting high fructose corn syrup. Mind you both are bad for you, but HFCS is worse. Natural fructose in fruit doesn't have those negative effects.

[Major Nikon]

127. The reverse is true

HFCS used in cola has a GI of 63 +-5. Sucrose is 68 +-5.

The glycemic index (GI) values reported for fructose, glucose, and sucrose are considerably different: 19 ± 2, 99 ± 3, and 68 ± 5, respectively (21). The GI of HFCS has not been published, but the GI of cola sweetened with HFCS is 63 ± 5 (21), a figure close to that of sucrose, which might be expected because of the similarities between the sweeteners.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/88/6/1738S.full

All fructose is C₆H₁₂O₆.

[BainsBane]

131. That's not what my doctor told me

Also I read about a study on weight loss where they gave two groups of patients different drinks before a meal. The group that drank OJ lost weight.

[Major Nikon]

132. The sugar in OJ contains almost exclusively fructose

Both HFCS and sucrose contain fructose and glucose in virtually the same amounts. That's what the OP and I are comparing. OJ is going to have a lower GI because it contains only fructose for the most part.

[BainsBane]

134. I take a general view that if it is closer to a natural state

as in how it comes from the ground or from an animal, it's healthier. I refused to eat margarine when people were saying it was better for you than butter, and it turned out I was right. I'm not saying I don't ever eat junk, but I try to eat more whole foods.

[Major Nikon]

137. Shit is perfectly natural and often organic

There's nothing all that natural about sugar unless you are getting it directly from its derived source. Table sugar is heavily refined as is HFCS.

My general rule is don't stuff sugar laden garbage down your gullet and expect to remain healthy. The FDA has excellent guidelines which recommend matching caloric intake to your activity level, limiting refined sugars of all types, and eating foods which are high in fiber (i.e. fruits and vegetables). Whether something is "natural" or not is more marketing hype than anything which offers sound nutritional information.

[BainsBane]

138. No, fruit over sugar

honey over sugar, etc. . . I don't mean that something is labeled natural. I mean if it's a plant or an animal rather than coming out of a box or can. Whole grain bread locally made rather than spongy marshmallowey stuff that sits on the shelf for six weeks. Processed foods lose much of their nutrients. Also I don't like when I can't pronounce things on an ingredient list.

Free range eggs and chicken, pasture raised beef, etc. . . They also taste a lot better.

[BainsBane]

139. But sugar dates back to 500 BC

which puts it above high fructose corn syrup to me. That's the same principal I used to stick with butter over margarine, and it turned out I was right. Obviously sugar isn't good for anyone, but I think HFCS is worse.

[Major Nikon]

140. Shit goes back even farther

I use both butter and lard instead of margarine or crisco, but my reasons have nothing to do with which one has been around longer.

[BainsBane]

142. You're fixated on shit

Shit is not edible.

Butter and lard taste a lot better too.

[Major Nikon]

144. Some of the best foods on earth derive much of their flavor from shit

Chocolate, cheese, yeast leavened bread, yogurt, milk, wine, and beer are all relevant examples.

[BainsBane]

145. What?

No, they do not. Fermentation is not shit. Shit is excrement from an animal. I really prefer not to hear your reasoning on this. It might put me off those foods.

[Major Nikon]

146. How do you think fermentation works?

Fermentation happens when microorganisms eat carbohydrates and shit byproducts like alcohol, acids, or gases. Strictly speaking it's not feces (which comes from animals), but it's still in one end and out the other.

[BainsBane]

147. It's not shit

It's just not.

[chervilant]

5. HFCS, hydrogenated, and

partially hydrogenated oils (HOs) have no nutritional value, and are detrimental to our health. Yet, food manufacturers persist in using them, because they are cost effective ways to improve "flavor" and "mouth-feel" (HFCS) and shelf life (HOs). Never mind that these 'products' are linked to serious health issues -- mustn't let *THAT* stand in the way of the Almighty Dollar.

[DainBramaged]

6. HFCS is a man-made product that did not even exist until the '60s

That in and of itself should cause some to pause in their defense of HFCS.

[HiPointDem]

9. so is penicillin.

[chervilant]

11. Do you eat penicillin?

Do you regularly consume any specific "man-made substance" that you contend is delicious *AND* nutritious? Perhaps you'd like to share such vital information?

[HiPointDem]

36. hfcs is 'man-made' in the same sense lemon meringue is. it's a food whose properties have been

changed by chemical reactions.

changed, in this case, to have a higher proportion of fructose & thus more sweetening power.

you can make it at home, here's the recipe:

Mix 10 cups of Yellow Dent #2 corn extract with one drop sulfuric acid, one teaspoon Alpha-Amylase, one teaspoon Glucose-Amylase, and one teaspoon Xylose, strain through a cheesecloth, and heat. Then, once the slurry has reached 140 degrees, add Glucose Isomerase, bring to a boil, let cool, and enjoy!

[1-Old-Man]

92. If you eat meat its likely you are eating all sorts of antibiotics.

[REP]

94. Well, yes you do if you eat bleu or Brie cheeses

You're not eating P notatum, but you are eating penicillin.

[chervilant]

105. Vegan here

Don't eat cheese, bleu or otherwise.

A significant percentage of humans cannot digest HOs, and their bodies typically store this "food" as plaque. HFCS metabolizes differently, and is linked with the obesity epidemic.

I find it fascinating how vociferously people defend their food choices when someone points out how deleterious such choices might be. Why take chances with your health? You can have your cake and eat it, too -- just make it from scratch.

I'm very glad I've avoided HOs and HFCS, and I'm glad I'm a Vegan. I look healthier, I have more stamina. I seldom have aches and pains. I'm the only woman in my circle of friends who isn't diabetic, or taking blood pressure meds, or dealing with high cholesterol.

Just look at it this way: since I don't eat the stuff so many responders to this OP love to consume, there's just more for them.

[REP]

106. I don't eat HFCS and think its crap.

But those who do eat certain aged cheeses are eating penicillin

[chervilant]

110. Have you read any of Diana Gabaldon's works?

I think you might like her.

[REP]

115. I'm not much of a romance fancier

Though the time period itself is interesting; that's about when and where part of my ancestry left for these sunny shores.

[chervilant]

153. OIC

I skip those parts ...

[DainBramaged]

15. penicillin

The discovery of penicillin is attributed to Scottish scientist and Nobel laureate Alexander Fleming in 1928.[12] He showed that, if Penicillium rubens[13] were grown in the appropriate substrate, it would exude a substance with antibiotic properties, which he dubbed penicillin. This serendipitous observation began the modern era of antibiotic discovery. The development of penicillin for use as a medicine is attributed to the Australian Nobel laureate Howard Walter Florey, together with the German Nobel laureate Ernst Chain and the English biochemist Norman Heatley.

The first published reference appears in the publication of the Royal Society in 1875, by John Tyndall.[14] Joaquim Monteiro Caminhoá, Professor of Botany and Zoology of the Faculty of Medicine of the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro in Brazil, also recognised the antibiotic activity of Penicillium and other fungi in 1877. In his book, Elements of General and Medical Botany (under a section titled "Useful fungi, harmful and curious&quot , he stated:

"The mould (Penicillium infestans, Penicillium glaucum, figure 1680, Ascophora and many others) is useful because it feeds on decaying organic matter and destroys putrifaction so that, as a rule, the odour of infection does not occur, or is produced in infinitely smaller amounts."[15]

In 1895, Vincenzo Tiberio, physician of the University of Naples published a research about a mold (Penicillium) in a water well that had an antibacterial action.[16][17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillin


I don't think you can truly call it a man-made substance, and it was discovered much eariler than the 60's. Additionally, it's properties are beneficial, with the exception of those alergic or building a resistance from prolonged use.

[HiPointDem]

35. recognizing the properties of the mold is not the same thing as creating the pharmaceutical.

[DainBramaged]

37. Do you think they manufacture it from pixie dust or live culture?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/diamonddove/02a_Manufacture/Manufacture.htm

[HiPointDem]

39. you can also make it in your home kitchen.

Mix 10 cups of Yellow Dent #2 corn extract with one drop sulfuric acid, one teaspoon Alpha-Amylase, one teaspoon Glucose-Amylase, and one teaspoon Xylose, strain through a cheesecloth, and heat. Then, once the slurry has reached 140 degrees, add Glucose Isomerase, bring to a boil, let cool, and enjoy!

http://www.bonappetit.com/blogsandforums/blogs/badaily/2013/05/diy-high-fructose-corn-syrup.html

[DainBramaged]

41. I the end, what is your point over this discussion?

And what does it have to do with HFCS? Penicillin is beneficial, I ave stated that, HFCS isn't even good as a lubricant.


So what's the point?


When 'fake' honey is shipped in from all over the world, it is not made from anti-freeze.


http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/206463151.html

[HiPointDem]

51. my point is that i am a participant at DU & can express myself on any topic, just as you can.

you can say stuff like 'hfcs isn't any even good as a lubricant' & i can say what a stupid remark, because why would anyone use sugar as a lubricant?

no, hfcs is not manufactured from pixie dust, but from corn -- just like penicillin is manufactured from a mold. Here's the cartoon version for you:



and here's the extended version:

[HiPointDem]

38. The antibiotic drug penicillin is *indeed* a man-made substance in exactly the same sense that

hfcs is.

they don't just grow penicillum mold & inject it into you.

[REP]

97. Pretty much, they do.

P chrysogenum is grown is huge fermenters to produce the drug penicillin.

[HiPointDem]

126. pretty much not. it goes through about as many chemical steps as the production of hfcs

from corn (which is actually a pretty simple process, so simple that you can make it in your kitchen).

[Major Nikon]

119. Only to those who think science is scary

Corn syrup has been around since the civil war era. In the late 50's an enzyme was found that could commercially convert the glucose in corn syrup to fructose. Your own body converts various carbohydrates to glucose using enzymes as well. Not exactly the stuff nightmares are made of.

[HiPointDem]

7. bullshit.

[chervilant]

10. Really?

Because you say so?

I've done extensive research prior to my decision to become a Vegan. Perhaps, I missed some vital research to which you are privy?

Do tell: why are my assertions "bullshit"? (Do try to respond sincerely, without the use of puerile vulgarity.)

[HiPointDem]

40. "HFCS, hydrogenated, and partially hydrogenated oils (HOs) have no nutritional value" =

complete bullshit.

[reformist2]

100. They have caloric value. But as far as vitamins and minerals go, zilch.

[HiPointDem]

124. Neither do most vegetable & seed oils. So?

[chervilant]

107. Speaking of bullshit...

The argument can be made that bullshit has nutritional value, but I wouldn't eat it, either.

[HiPointDem]

122. Perhaps the problem is that you don't understand what "nutritional value" means. Anything with

calories, for starters, has "nutritional value". No one who actually knows anything about nutrition would claim that hfcs or hydrogenated fats have no nutritional value.

Consulting Bowes & Church (standard nutritional reference), I find that Crisco does indeed have nutritional value, in that it contains calories, saturated fats, monounsaturated fats, and polyunsaturated fats, all of which have nutritional value.

Furthermore, I find that it has pretty much the same nutritional value as most vegetable oils.

Vegetable oils, like crisco, have pretty much no vitamins or minerals. Doesn't mean they don't have nutritional value.

[chervilant]

162. Such a profound response...

I have no interest in 'debating' with you my opinion about the relative 'nutritional values' of HOs, and HCFS. You can be completely 'right,' and express to this little online microcosm called DU that I am 'wrong.' Further, you can announce that I 'don't know what is nutritional value,' until the cows come home. I hope all of this helps you feel as superior as you apparently require.

Since these types of responses (herein above) epitomize the extent of your ability to 'communicate' with fellow DUers, I'm surprised you even make an effort to participate. You are a most unpleasant person, and I don't care to hear from you again. Please go bother someone else.

[HiPointDem]

168. words have meanings, much as you would prefer to live in your little solipsistic world. they

have meanings in nutritional science & they have meanings in the common tongue.

if you want to speak a private language, why are you on a discussion board?

your claim was bullshit.

[Silent3]

78. Why is such hyperbole necessary? Can't you just say you think there...

...are better, healthier alternatives? Because --newsflash! -- even though most people have the problem of consuming too many calories, calories of nearly any vaguely digestible variety have nutritional value -- they will fuel your body.

If you had nothing at all available to eat than HFCS and hydrogenated oil for two weeks, you'd probably be sick as hell once you finally could get some real food, but you'd still be in much better shape than if you had nothing at all to eat instead.

It's only because you live in a society where even the poorest people seldom suffer from a calorie deficit that you can cavalierly dismiss the food value of something that provides usable metabolic energy.

[chervilant]

108. Hyperbole?

"... cavalierly dismiss the food value of something that provides usable metabolic energy"?

You just go right ahead and defend your food choices. It's entirely up to you what you put in your mouth.

[Silent3]

109. Now you compound hyperbole with poor reading skills

Where did I defend any particular food choice of mine or anyone else's? Or did you surmise I couldn't possibly challenge your hyperbole without having a hidden agenda that you oh-so-cleverly have uncovered?

It's either accept, in absolute terms, NO NUTRIONAL VALUE!11!!1!!, or it's a defense of some imagined food choice, no other possibilities?

[chervilant]

111. Oh, dear; oh, dear!

Would you like a little cheese with that whine? Someone mentioned a nice bleu earlier.



(I don't care about your agenda, hidden or otherwise. And, your characterization of my post as 'hyperbole' is just your opinion -- and, like sphincters, we've all got one, no?)

(Try not to hyperventilate... )

[Silent3]

113. What you said is patently not true, therefore it is at best hyperbole.

If not hyperbole, all that's left is delusion or bullshit.

It is not my mere opinion that calories are an important element of nutritional value. That is fact. If a food can sustain your life for a time, better than an absence of food, it clearly has some nutritional value. That some foods combine much higher nutritional value with their caloric content does not zero out the nutritional value of less optimal choices.

[chervilant]

164. From what cavernous, dark hole did you crawl

to pronounce my opinion regarding the relative nutritional values of HOs and HCFS "hyperbole," or "...if not hyperbole, all that's left is delusion or bullshit"?

Let's see if you can wrap your miniscule, linear brain around this:

FOR ME, hydrogenated oils and high fructose corn syrup have NO NUTRITIONAL VALUE. When my body has to call upon its reserves of vitamins and minerals simply to PROCESS these 'foods,' the net benefit to me (your much vaunted 'nutritional value') is nil.

Now, I am done with you. I have done a boatload of research to arrive at my decision to be a Vegan, and I prefer to have dialogues with diplomatic, erudite individuals--neither of which are you.

[Silent3]

170. "For you"? I have to account for what, that you're a different species than I realized?

You may have done "a boatload of research", but they way you're processing that information is clearly spiked with a lot more emotion than logic about fundamental biology, a need to express your disdain for certain foods through exaggeration.

Unless you're prepared to tell me you're so biologically unique that you'd die faster eating fructose and hydrogenated oil than you would eating no food at all, then whether I say it from a "cavernous, dark hole" or a mountain top, I'll call your melodrama about NO!11!!!1 nutritional value bullshit, because that's what it patently is.

[HiPointDem]

171. "my body has to call upon its reserves of vitamins and minerals simply to PROCESS these 'foods'"

yeah, i can see the kind of erudite types you've been listening to.

as for diplomatic; well. the posters you claim are undiplomatic attacked your claim, not you.

you responded with:

"From what cavernous, dark hole did you crawl"

"your miniscule, linear brain"

You can claim that your body is super-special and exhausts its valuable "stores of vitamins and minerals" when processing hfcs or hydrogenated fats, but that doesn't make it so.

You might try studying digestion & metabolism. You might tell the 'erudite' people you know to do so too, because the claim is idiotic.

[Agschmid]

8. I have more issues than HFCS.

[hankthecrank]

12. Come out come out HFCs shills

Where the toxic guy. O that's right I put you on ignore

Want to hear its the same it's the same old bullshit song

I guess I don't will just put you on ignore

Put that in your it's the same it's the same sugar bowl. Or in your case poison bowl

[Egalitarian Thug]

13. My body proves to me that it is not the same every time some slips by,

or rather into, me.

I have a very specific reaction to the stuff that I've come to recognize very well.

[hankthecrank]

14. Looks like adm not getting a good return on money to shills

People are not buying your spin shills

[mathematic]

16. HFCS is made from corn kernels, which are indeed sweet

Besides, most US sugar comes from sugar beets (nearly all GM) not sugarcane. All sugar is refined. A sugar plant is not like a tomato plant where you just pick the sugar and eat it.

While I don't know the history of sugar refining I'd bet that current sugar refining practices are approximately the same age as current HFCS production practices.

[DainBramaged]

17. White gold (Google is your friend, sugar is Centuries old)

White Gold, as British colonists called it, was the engine of the slave trade that brought millions of Africans to the Americas beginning in the early 16th-century. The history of every nation in the Caribbean, much of South America and parts of the Southern United States was forever shaped by sugar cane plantations started as cash crops by European superpowers.

Profit from the sugar trade was so significant that it may have even helped America achieve independence from Great Britain.

The Trade Triangle

Today more sugar is produced in Brazil than anywhere else in the world even though, ironically, the crop never grew wild in the Americas. Sugar cane — native to Southeast Asia — first made its way to the New World with Christopher Columbus during his 1492 voyage to the Dominican Republic, where it grew well in the tropical environment.

Noting sugar cane's potential as income for the new settlements in the Americas — Europeans were already hooked on sugar coming from the Eastern colonies — Spanish colonizers snipped seeds from Columbus' fields in the Dominican Republic and planted them throughout their burgeoning Caribbean colonies. By the mid 16th-century the Portuguese had brought some to Brazil and, soon after, the sweet cane made its way to British, Dutch and French colonies such as Barbados and Haiti.



http://www.livescience.com/4949-sugar-changed-world.html

[mathematic]

18. I am well aware that people have been eating sugar for a long time.

Google can also be used to discover current sugar refining methods and historical sugar refining methods. You might also want to google up when people starting eating sugar from sugar beets and when the sugar beet market in the US got so big.

[lunasun]

27. most beets in USA are GMO

[HiPointDem]

42. what is your point, & why did you feel the need to put it in all in bold? do you really think

people are so unaware of the information in your post that you needed to bold it as though it were some revelation?

[DainBramaged]

44. Do you have a stake in defending HFCS or the industry?

I've been a UAW member since the 80's and I proudly shill for GM and American made cars, but your attempts to hide behind one sentence replies leads me to believe there is something else at stake here.

[HiPointDem]

46. I have a stake in countering bullshit. No, I don't work in the food industry if that's what you're

asking.

[DainBramaged]

48. Then you have no leg to stand on when you call bullshit

IMHO is just that unless you have evidence to the contrary, and all you have is.....


have a NICE day...

[HiPointDem]

52. i've been posting evidence to the contrary, & higher level degree in nutrition says i have more

legs than you.

[DainBramaged]

57. & higher level degree in nutrition

It's sad you think that impresses me. If you do, having the opinion you do on HFCS is quite frankly contrary to what you were taught. At least I site examples, not just shout "bullshit" hoping people notice how smart you think you are.


And with that, our discussions are over.






Results presented at the 2013 Canadian Neuroscience Meeting shows that high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) can cause behavioural reactions similar to those produced by drugs of abuse such as cocaine.


These results, presented by addiction expert Francesco Leri, Associate Professor of Neuroscience and Applied Cognitive Science at the University of Guelph, suggest food addiction could explain, at least partly, the current global obesity epidemic partly caused by these ingredients.

The same brain circuits are involved when people crave high fructose corn syrup as when drug addicts think about drugs. There is significant activity in all areas of the brain, especially in the hippocampus when consuming potent sweeteners. That region is related to learning, memory and is also related to a lot of things such as sensory and motor impulse and emotional behavior.

The stimulators also sent messages of satiety to brain circuits in the orbitofrontal cortex and striatum, which have been linked to craving and desire in cocaine addicts.

High-fructose corn syrup, which is a mixture a potent concentrated cocktail of the simple sugars fructose and glucose, came into use in the 1970s and by 2010 the average American was consuming about 80 pounds of it per year. Overall, dietary intake of fructose has increased by an estimated 50 percent in the last thirty years.

http://intellihub.com/2013/05/26/high-fructose-corn-syrup-is-causing-addiction-similar-to-cocaine/

[HiPointDem]

59. I didn't say it to impress you. Any sugar can also cause 'behavioral reactions similar to those

produced by cocaine"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/


Having some wider knowledge of the field & the research is what allows me to separate out bullshit, misleading articles linked from anonymous 'prevent disease' websites from actual science.

April McCarthy is a community journalist playing an active role reporting and analyzing world events to advance our health and eco-friendly initiatives.

[chervilant]

112. (Someone's not getting their money's worth...)

[HiPointDem]

120. I doubt that the anonymous website "Prevent Disease" is a paying gig.

[chervilant]

163. Oh, my...

I meant the following:

1) Whatever monies you expended obtaining your "higher level degree in nutrition" were insufficient in preparing you to communicate diplomatically and respectfully with others.

and/or

2) Whoever is paying you to shill for the HCFS industry is not getting a lot of bang for their buck.

Now, as far as I'm concerned, we're done. You might as well add me to your IL, since I'll not respond to any more of your arrogant, presumptuous drivel.

[HiPointDem]

167. "arrogant, presumptuous drivel" = indeed.

[DainBramaged]

19. Besides, most US sugar comes from sugar beets

The United States is among the world's largest sugar producers. Unlike most other producing countries, the United States has both large and well-developed sugarcane and sugar beet industries. Since the mid-1990s, sugarcane has accounted for about 45 percent of the total sugar produced domestically, and sugar beets for about 55 percent of production. U.S. sugar production expanded from an early 1980s' average of 6.0 million short tons, raw value (STRV) to an average 8.1 million STRV in the 2000s. The production increases are due to a substantial investment in new processing equipment, the adoption of new technologies, the use of improved crop varieties, and acreage expansion (because of higher prices for sugar relative to alternative crops).



http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/crops/sugar-sweeteners/background.aspx


a 10% difference is not "most"

[mathematic]

20. "Most" currently means "greater than half".

You're not looking to change that too?

[DainBramaged]

21. Try as you might, I'm not taking the bait

Have a nice day.

[displacedtexan]

53. i'm proud of you!

When these HFCS defenders turn 40 or 50 and have to take blood thinners because of artery blockages, maybe they'll start reading actual peer-reviewed independent research instead of industry-sponsored white papers. The stuff they're reading is written by "scholars" and "medical professionals," who "sit" on boards created by industries like Cargill and ADM. Board seats come with stipends, speaking fees, research grants and all-expense paid vacations to exotic places. In return, these "experts" lend just enough credence to the industry side of the argument as to muddy the waters and turn facts into opinions.

Anyway, I'm glad you're not taking the bait today. Just tell them what the queen said.

And it wasn't, "Let them eat cake."

She actually said, "Fuck them."

[HiPointDem]

56. i'm pushing 60 & take no medications whatsoever. i have a normal weight and an advanced

degree in a science.

i'm not a hfcs 'defender,' i just don't like obvious bullshit like 'hfcs has no nutritive value' and 'hfcs is responsible for the obesity epidemic'.


age-adjusted heart disease rates have actually gone *down* since the advent of hfcs, not up.

[DainBramaged]

58. (sigh) better medications, it's that simple

age-adjusted heart disease rates have actually gone *down* since the advent of hfcs, not up

We didn't have the technology or the medicine to ward off heart disease until about the mid-90,s. your CLAIM that HFCS reduces heart disease rates is simply one of the biggest lies I've ever seen on DU.

defender of the HFCS


Great title

Cardiovascular Disease Statistics


Each year, heart disease is at the top of the list of the country's most serious health problems. In fact, statistics show that cardiovascular disease is America's leading health problem, and the leading cause of death. Consider the most recent statistics released by the American Heart Association:

•Approximately 84 million people in this country suffer from some form of cardiovascular disease, causing about 2,200 deaths a day, averaging one death every 40 seconds.

•Almost one out of every three deaths results from cardiovascular disease.

•The direct and indirect costs of cardiovascular disease and stroke are about $300 billion. This figure is increasing every year.

•An estimated 16 million U.S. adults have coronary heart disease.

•Approximately 78 million U.S. adults have high blood pressure, and an estimated 20 million have diabetes.

•It is estimated that an additional 8 million adults have undiagnosed diabetes and 87 million have pre-diabetes.

•Heart failure affects well over 5 million U.S. adults.

•Cardiovascular disease is the cause of more deaths than cancer, chronic lower respiratory diseases, and accidents combined.

•It is a myth that heart disease is a man's disease. In fact, cardiovascular diseases are the number one killer of women (and men).

•About one-third of cardiovascular disease deaths occurred before age 75.

•On average, someone in the U.S. suffers a stroke every 40 seconds.

•Stroke is a leading cause of serious, long-term disability that accounts for more than half of all patients hospitalized for a neurological disease.

•Women have a higher lifetime risk of stroke than men.

•Approximately 20 percent of U.S. adults smoke cigarettes, costing $193 billion per year.

•An estimated 68 percent of U.S. adults are overweight or obese.

When compared with previous trends, the cardiovascular disease death rates have declined, but there are more people suffering from diabetes and obesity.


http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/cardiovascular_diseases/cardiovascular_disease_statistics_85,P00243/

[HiPointDem]

64. bullshit, on two counts: 1) i made no claim that hfcs reduced heart disease. 2) if you were

actually familiar with the literature, rather than just focusing on a small subset of the popular press, you'd know that heart disease rates have been declining since the 20s-30s, and 'better medications' is just a small part of that picture.

[DainBramaged]

61. Always remember, the HFCS be with you. His claim HFCS has contributed to lower heart disease

is one of the greatest tales ever told on the DU. It surpasses salt being good from you even when it's eaten at the Olive Garden!

[HiPointDem]

68. your claim that i made that claim is one of the greatest examples of prevarication ever seen at

DU.

[hankthecrank]

22. K&r n/t

[hankthecrank]

23. Kick

[DainBramaged]

24. U.S. Losing Taste for Corn Sweetener as Dieters Shun Soda

Consumption of high-fructose corn syrup, used to sweeten products from Coca-Cola Co. (KO) to HJ Heinz Co. (HNZ) ketchup and linked to obesity, is falling in the U.S. as health-conscious consumers drink less soda.

The amount of corn devoted to the sweetener this year will fall to its lowest level since 1997, according to a Jan. 15 projection by the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

“A lot of attention has been paid to obesity, and that’s hurt high-fructose corn syrup,” said Marion Nestle, a public- health and nutrition expert at New York University. “Now, if only people weren’t making up for it by eating more sugar.”

For decades, corn syrup benefited from the relatively low cost of corn compared with sugar. A tripling of corn costs since 2004 has lessened that advantage, while consumer obesity concerns and negative publicity have also eaten into demand, said Lauren Bandy, an ingredients analyst with Euromonitor International Plc in London.

Americans consumed an average of 131 calories of the corn sweetener each day in 2011, down 16 percent since 2007, according to the most recent USDA data. Meanwhile, consumption of sugar, also blamed for weight gain, rose 8.8 percent to 185 calories daily, the data show.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-22/u-s-losing-taste-for-corn-sweetener-as-dieters-shun-soda.html


If you replace one sweetner with another, of course the consumption of the sweetner replaceent will go up. Still people are realizing the non-existent health benefit of HFCS make choosing a substitue from sugar to blue agave nectar imperative.

[DainBramaged]

26. Feeding bees corn syrup may leave them vulnerable to colony collapse

Apis mellifera, the western honeybee, is big business; the pollination services the bees provide to US agriculture are valued at roughly $14 billion. Unfortunately, bees the world over are suffering from colony collapse disorder (CCD), in which worker bees go out foraging and then disappear instead of returning to the hive and tending to the queen like they are supposed to. The causes of CCD are not clear, but pathogens, parasites, and pesticides have all been implicated. Neonicotinoids, a class of pesticides that have been shown to alter bees’ navigation, foraging, communication, and reproduction, have just been banned in Europe in an attempt to help the bees.

New research suggests yet another potential contributor to CCD. The problem? We’ve been stealing the bees’ honey and instead feeding them high fructose corn syrup. The problem isn't so much the fructose as the absence of chemicals in the honey.

Bees are exposed to a huge variety of plants because they gather nectar from the spring through the fall. The honey they make from these diverse nectar sources varies according to locality (leading to the unsubstantiated belief that eating local honey can alleviate seasonal hay fever). And bees’ “immune systems”—detoxification enzymes used to rid the body of foreign chemicals, like pesticides—are known to be induced by different stimuli than those of other insects. So scientists decided to check whether any components of honey can induce bees’ detoxification enzymes.

They started by separating honey into four different fractions and feeding each individually to different sets of bees to determine whether any induced a known detoxifying gene. The most active fraction contained p-coumaric acid, a structural component in the outer wall of pollen grains. Then they looked to see what other genes p-coumaric acid might induce and found twelve more detoxifying genes as well as two antimicrobials.


http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/05/feeding-bees-corn-syrup-may-leave-them-vulnerable-to-colony-collapse/

[FarCenter]

28. It is the lack of other nutrients that is the problem; honey contains mostly fructose and glucose.

Typical honey analysis:
Fructose: 38.2%
Glucose: 31.3%
Maltose: 7.1%
Sucrose: 1.3%
Water: 17.2%
Higher sugars: 1.5%
Ash: 0.2%
Other/undetermined: 3.2%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey

[Arcanetrance]

29. Sorry there's a big difference between the two.

Last edited Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Yes to much sugar is not good for you either. But if you want to experience a hell of a shock stop eating anything with HFCS or processed foods in general for 6 months than try eating or drinking something thats processed and has HFCS you'll be sick.

[HiPointDem]

49. Karo is *not* high fructose corn syrup. It's ordinary corn syrup. High fructose corn syrup is

corn syrup that's undergone a chemical reaction to increase the proportion of fructose, which gives it more sweetening power.


High fructose corn syrup starts with regular corn syrup (glucose only), which is modified by further processing and treated with enzymes to break it into two different forms of sweetness, fructose and glucose.

In contrast, corn syrup is a sweetener derived from fresh corn picked and processed at its peak for flavor and sweetness. This is the ingredient in all Karo Corn Syrup products used for baking and sold in retail stores. .

http://www.karosyrup.com/faq.html

[Arcanetrance]

54. Forgive me your right I will edit that out

It still doesn't make me like karo its something about it always made me gag

[HiPointDem]

74. no problem, i don't like karo either

[L0oniX]

30. We switched to Agave nectar ...you would be surprised at how good this stuff is.

[DainBramaged]

31. I have it at home too besides Stevia, and t's become very reasonable

from it's peak of a couple of years ago.

[L0oniX]

33. We even take Agave to resturants ...tried Stevia but it has an after taste.

[HiPointDem]

50. what kind of chemical processes do you think are used to turn leaves into sweet powder?

[KittyWampus]

60. stevia has a lower glycemic load. Don't care about processing, myself. Not a paleo.

[HiPointDem]

66. It has a lower glycemic load like saccharin does -- because it has no caloric value.

Last edited Thu Jul 18, 2013, 04:34 PM - Edit history (1)

Unless it's cut with maltodextrin:

Also many of the white stevia powders use large amounts of maltodextrin to cut the strong sweet flavor of stevia extract.

Maltodextrin is a polysaccharide (or carbohydrate) that is used as an additive to soften the flavor of the steviocide (it’s also preferred because it doesn’t clump.) Maltodextrin is usually derived from GMO feed corn using chemicals, bleaching agents and other very-unnatural processes.

http://renegadehealth.com/blog/2011/08/20/whats-so-bad-about-white-stevia-powder


Steviol glycosides were first commercialized as a sweetener in 1971 by the Japanese firm Morita Kagaku Kogyo Co., Ltd., a leading stevia extract producer in Japan.

Truvia is the consumer brand for Rebiana marketed by Cargill and developed jointly with The Coca-Cola Company.

PureVia is PepsiCo's brand of rebaudioside A sweetener which was developed jointly with Whole Earth Sweetener Company.

Enliten is Corn Products International's brand of rebaudioside A sweetener.

Erylite Stevia is the trade name for Jungbunzlauer's sweetener with rebaudioside A.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steviol_glycoside


also, just for a ps: glycemic index = fairly unreliable & somewhat 'academic' in that the tests are done eating just food x on an empty stomach. typically people eat 'sugar' or carbs in a mixed meal, in which case the sugar/carbs are released to the blood more slowly and you get very different values.

eat some protein, fiber or fat with your sugar.

[HiPointDem]

67. agave nectar = mostly fructose.

To produce agave nectar from the Agave americana and A. tequiliana plants, the leaves are cut off the plant after it has aged seven to fourteen years.

The juice is then extracted from the core of the agave, called the piña.[2] The juice is filtered, then heated to separate the complex components (the polysaccharides) into simple sugars.

The main polysaccharide is called inulin or fructosan and is mostly fructose. This filtered juice is then concentrated to a syrupy liquid, slightly thinner than honey. Its color varies from light- to dark-amber, depending on the degree of processing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agave_nectar


Not to mention that using a plant that takes 7 to 14 years to reach maturity for your main source of an all-purpose sweetner isn't very ecologically sustainable.

[L0oniX]

71. Lowest glycemic value. Well they don't seem to run out of 10 yo wine and I doubt they will run out..

of Agave either. Sustainability? ...hmmm ...how much is a human life span reduced by ingesting HFCS? Jury is out on that but I will bet their life would be shorter than that of the Agave user.

[HiPointDem]

73. it has lower glycemic value because of the percentage of inulin (mostly non-nutritive, i.e. can't

be absorbed by the body).

Nevertheless, agave nectar has something like 70% fructose, comparable to HFCS.

Sustainability of the agave plants.

Humans seem to be doing just fine.

"I will bet their life would be shorter than that of the Agave user"

Chinese say that about people who eat bear bile, too. Bad for the bears, though.

I'd take your bet since until recently the main users of agave were Mexicans who had shorter lifespans than americans.

[L0oniX]

77. Well I will keep using Agave ...and you are welcome to promote and use HFCS.

[HiPointDem]

81. i don't 'promote' hfcs. i counter bullshit. you keep using your high-fructose sweetner.

agave has a 'lower glycemic index' in the same way that if i ate some sugar with some wheat fiber, the whole mix would have a 'lower glycemic index' than the sugar alone.

because the wheat fiber isn't absorbed into the blood stream.

[L0oniX]

86. You counter bullshit? Well it's good to have goals and dreams.

[HiPointDem]

87. bs like 'here, use this high-fructose sweetner so you can avoid that other high-fructose sweetner

because fructose is bad!"

agave has a 'lower glycemic index' in the same way that if i ate some pure sugar mixed with 10% wheat fiber, the whole mix would have a 'lower glycemic index' than the sugar alone.

because the wheat fiber isn't absorbed into the blood stream.

[DainBramaged]

88. Come to think of it, two suppossed food scientists in two days giving us positive responses to HFCS?

wow what a cooinkidink

[HiPointDem]

89. please link to where someone claimed to be a food scientist. why don't you respond to the

criticisms of your position rather than attacking people?

oh, right, because you can't.

Cargill makes Truvia, dain.

Cargill & coca-cola.

pepsi-co makes another brand of stevia.

some corn company makes another brand.

socking it to the man, yeah!

[L0oniX]

90. New corporate shills being discovered everyday. Amazing ain't it.

Then there's the sustainability factor ..like the land used to grow corn would keep doing that without tons of nitrates and what's left of the aquifers. Of course there is that fountain of truth from wiki written by hmmm. Blocking certain people from serving on jury duty is a good thing.

[HiPointDem]

91. lol. you don't know much about agave. small producers are being pushed out & they use lots

of chemicals. blue agave is grown in plantations and has been devastated by disease this last decade or so.

not surprised that people who can't tolerate any criticism of the illogic of their position would wish to ban the critics from juries.

Today's blue agave crop is a genetic monoculture. While wild agave is naturally pollinated by bats - now imperiled by habitat loss, tourism, dwindling food supply and harvesting agave - and germinates from seed, the agaves also reproduce asexually, through shoots (hijuelos) from the mother plant. Today these shoots are the source of more than 95 cent of all cultivated blue agave crops - and there are an estimated 200 million blue agave plants under cultivation in 2007.

During the growing cycle, the plants will be weeded, sprayed with fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides, and some of their leaves trimmed. Most growers use farm hands to meticulously control the weeds by hand. Fields are not irrigated; the plants depend entirely on the rainy season for moisture. Experiments with irrigation showed the larger plants that resulted did not produce any more agave sugars.

Like any other crop or plant, agaves are threatened by a variety of insects, fungi and other natural predators. Included among these are the larvae of several butterflies, and beetles (some, like the black weevil, attack several species).

Modern agave production is basically the same as cloning. This has led to some problems with genetic issues. Without the genetic diversity provided by natural, sexual pollination, the crops are widely vulnerable to pests or diseases that can adapt to take advantage of their similarity. Such has been the problem of the various plagues and diseases which have swept the agave fields since the 19th century (including the fusarium epidemic of the mid 1990s).

http://www.ianchadwick.com/tequila/agave_growing.htm

[DainBramaged]

93. It's been fun playing with them today, but they insult the DU as a whole when their rhetoric

stops being debatable when "bullshit" is their initial and continued response.


A LOT more folks here agree that HFCS is no good for them as opposed to the few who try to bend the truth with claims of higher education.


Nice talking to you today. Now it's time for a little Diablo III and then bed. It's been tough running around campus in this heat unjamming printers and fixing screen savers......

[HiPointDem]

157. people may feel better not eating hfcs; that's great, more power to them. i personally feel

better when i eat a semi-vegetarian diet.

but i don't therefore claim that meat is 'poison' or that meat 'causes' obesity. nor do i claim that anyone who tries to refute that is a 'shill for the meat industry'.

you guys call names because you can't argue your case.

and that's obvious is the utter ridiculousness of, on the one hand, arguing that there's something suspect about fructose while using an equally high fructose sweetner.

[MineralMan]

79. Agave nectar is a highly processed sweetener

Agave “nectar” is not made from the sap of the yucca or agave plant but from the starch of the giant pineapple-like, root bulb. The principal constituent of the agave root is starch, similar to the starch in corn or rice, and a complex carbohydrate called inulin, which is made up of chains of fructose molecules.Technically a highly indigestible fiber, inulin, which does not taste sweet, comprises about half of the carbohydrate content of agave.

The process by which agave glucose and inulin are converted into “nectar” is similar to the process by which corn starch is converted into HFCS. The agave starch is subject to an enzymatic and chemical process that converts the starch into a fructose-rich syrup—anywhere from 70 percent fructose and higher according to the agave nectar chemical profiles posted on agave nectar websites.

http://www.westonaprice.org/modern-foods/agave-nectar-worse-than-we-thought

It's always better to do actual research than to rely on the information from people selling something, it seems to me.

In fact, it's comparable to HFCS.

[DainBramaged]

95. Hello

The foundation has been criticized by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for its advocacy of drinking raw milk[2] and by Joel Fuhrman, MD for its advocacy of the health benefits of animal-based fats


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A._Price_Foundation


Raw milk? Really.

I do not disagree with their explanation on face value, but my endocrinologist, who is one of the best in the country, (period), has told me if he choice is sugar or HFCS or agave, it's agave.


Nice to see you.

[MineralMan]

104. Your endocrinologist...

OK, I assume from that that you have a personal issue with handling sugars. Thats a different matter, and does not apply to those who do not. Agave nectar is a processed product, with high fructose levels. If your doctor recommends it for you, that is fine.

[shanti]

166. But

It does have calories and will affect ones blood sugar, which stevia does not. The negligible aftertaste is worth it to me as a diabetic.

[tabbycat31]

32. For the most part I gave it up

I'm not perfect, but that was the first step I took when I started to lose weight.

[Greybnk48]

34. New study out of Princeton

says that their studies show that HFCS affects mammals differently than table sugar.


http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/91/22K07/?fb_action_ids=4460571571287&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

[Major Nikon]

121. Might want to have a look at this for the rest of the story...

The rats who got HFCS for 12 hours gained significantly more weight than the other 3 groups. At first glance, this would make you believe that HFCS makes you gain more weight than sucrose, even if you are eating the same number of calories. However, there is a problem with these results. Take a look again at the chart above. If the rats fed HFCS for 12 hours gained more weight, why didn’t the rats fed HFCS for 24 hours also gain more weight? They got HFCS for a full 12 hours more, yet didn’t gain more weight. This is a glaring inconsistency in the results…an inconsistency that the researchers never tried to explain.

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=19

[displacedtexan]

43. HFCS + Palm Oil = the cheapest stuff on earth used to make us buy unhealthy foods

Palm oil makes Twinkie filling taste so damed good, but it'll clog your arteries super fast.

HFCS is a lot cheaper than sugar, and manufacturers don't care if it's bad for you.

After I retired, I went to pastry school, and I'm still amazed how little it costs to bake pastries when you buy your staples in bulk (20-25 lbs at a time). Plus, you get to control what's in the things you bake.

Check out the ingredients on baking mixes and packaged baked goods. Scary!

[ananda]

47. I avoid HFCS like the plague.

In fact, I avoid just about all grains anyway.

[Silent3]

62. HFCS may be bad, but your two opening paragraphs aren't so hot either.

A 'fake' sweetener because it's cheap

What is this comment trying to say? Something should be considered fake if it's cheap?

By the way, sugar is sweet and needs no further processing, (ever chew on a sugar cane?) raw or white. HFCS isn't aweet without further processing (ever chew on a corn stalk?)

Ever bake cookies using whole chunks of sugar cane? All that's different here is the initial concentration of sugar, not whether one sugar is "real" or not, whether one sugar is "truly" sweet or not. Both sources of sugar undergo a lot of processing to concentrate sugar before it's delivered as a final product.

...and if it DIDN'T have any unwanted effects (unlike sugar) why are so many food manufacturers eliminating HFCS from their foods?

For PR reasons, of course. HFCS may indeed be bad, but it's the perception that it's bad that's making the difference now. It's a marketable feature to be able to claim "No HFCS! Sweetened with real cane sugar!"

Corporations are just as happy to market to our pseudoscientific fears as well as to our rational concerns, so there's nothing pro or con to be garnered from observing corporate behavior on this issue.

Why not just jump right in with the hard data instead of leading with this questionable rhetoric?

[DainBramaged]

65. I guess the opening statement is as far as you read...

Sugar is a naturally occurring product, distilled from beets and sugar cane. They SELL sugar cane as a treat in the markets, have you known anyone who buys HFCS as a treat?

Secondly, of course it's marketing, but the 'customer' who refuses to eat HFCS laden food still needs to be satisfied, in spite of them possibly being only a niche market.

I've jumped in with data throughout the thread, sorry you didn't notice. And next time I'll do my est to make you happy so you can applaud at the beginning rather than the end of the day.

[Major Nikon]

116. You obviously have no idea sugar is processed

The "naturally occurring product" you mentioned is processed with things like formaldehyde, lime, and soda ash.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_beet#Processing

HFCS is processed with heat and enzymes (not unlike how your body processes food).

[HiPointDem]

70. "Corporations are just as happy to market to our pseudoscientific fears" = yes. Cargill & Coca-Cola

make "Truvia" & Pepsi-Co makes a rival product.

Cargill also make hfcs. Gotcha coming & going.

The slave-using, Everglades-destroying Fanjul family has a big role in the sugar lobby & gets all kinds of gov't subsidies.

[bigwillq]

63. I avoid it more because of the taste than the potential harmful effects

I don't like that sweet, syrupy taste.

[Taverner]

69. HFCS tastes like the kind of shit you would use to add to a petri dish in biochem

You know, to spread the bacteria...

Doesn't taste anything like sugar

I am not sure if it is worse than sugar, but I know it tastes horrible

So I don't drink it

I keep Kosher and Mexican Coke as well as Pepsi and Mtn Dew Throwback for such an occasion.

Muuuuuuch better tasting

I try to avoid it in food too, because it can ruin the flavor of perfectly good ketchup

Note that Hershey and Ghirardelli bars contain no HFCS

And note that they taste GOOOOD

[DainBramaged]

72. It is amazing what levels some will stoop to to defend a product that scientific evidence

is proving it is not only bad for you but could be one of the main causes of an epidemic of obesity and diabetes.



When I was growing up, ALL we had was sugar. People weren't obese, few were diabetic. They warned us sugar rotted our teeth, but they weren't worry about it clogging our arteries.


Sugar is distilled, brown if raw and unbleached. I'll take sugar over modified corn syrup any day.

[HiPointDem]

75. it is amazing what levels some will stoop to to defend their little hobbyhorses. scientific evidence

is doing nothing of the sort but you'd have to actually know something about science & read the literature, instead of anonymous 'health' websites.

[Taverner]

76. The science does seem to be supporting the HFCS diabetes connection

Although Obesity has many more items in play...

High fat, low exercise, sugar in general, salt...

[DainBramaged]

83. Many mny new drugs cause weight gain in Seniors (like myself)

and they say right in the "contra-indicationatonaters" "may cause weight, or one drug, WILL cause weight gain.

[Taverner]

84. Portion size is a big factor too

[DainBramaged]

96. I was told in my youth I had a big portion size

now, not so much, more like pizza bites.....

[reformist2]

101. How does this happen? Do you end up feeling hungrier all the time?

[DainBramaged]

102. No, metabolism slows down and doesn't process calories like I used to

Blood pressure meds, cholesterol, steroids, thyroid meds, all contribute...an prior to my pituitary going south, I never had any blood pressure, cholesterol or heart problems

[Major Nikon]

117. You still don't get it do you?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3047009

[DainBramaged]

149. You really need to stop, your stalking is getting obvious now

continuing to repost a comment of mine from June to make your point defending HFCS is not only weak, it's troubling. You obviously have a fixation that goes beyond simple discussions when disagreed with.

It's sad you think this will bring you attention from the DU community other than your companion defenders. I think my post will.


Oh, and I had a Three Musketeers bite size yesterday and I enjoyed it, much to your consternation.

[Major Nikon]

151. "You obviously have a fixation that goes beyond simple discussions when disagreed with. "

DainBramaged

Mail Message
Go fuck yourself

DainBramaged

Time to go on the ignore list

Mail Message
Post that asshole

Just sayin'

[Orrex]

80. Where's the response for "I'd like to see more panic about the subject?"

[DainBramaged]

82. LOLOLOL

[L0oniX]

165. +1 ^^^this^^^ LMFAO

[Kali]

85. sugar is sugar

hfcs has a little more fructose to glucose than sucrose (white or table sugar) but they are pretty much the same thing in most measures.

they both are contributing to high rates of obesity and diabetes. we now consume an average of almost 80 pounds of sugar per person per year in the US. which kind is irrelevant, we need to start cutting back on the shit, in general.

feature article in National Geographic - http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/08/sugar/cohen-text

[Major Nikon]

118. Exactly

The idea that you're going to be more healthy if you eat sucrose rather than HFCS is nonsense. Both are equally as bad if consumed at 4 times the FDA recommended limit that the average American stuffs down their pie hole. Garbage in, garbage out still applies.

[Bluenorthwest]

98. I avoid it entirely, it tastes crappy and ruins the texture of baked goods.

The few sodas I use are hecho en Mexico. HFSC has an aftertaste and a less than full spectrum flavor profile. I always avoid mediocre products.

[reformist2]

99. I'm not paranoid about it, but there are big differences in how different sugars are metabolized.

The fact that corn syrup is not natural but has to be chemically teased out from the corn starch is something most people don't realize, and something that should give them at least some pause.

[Major Nikon]

123. The same is true for sucrose

Beet sugar production uses chemicals like formaldehyde, lime, and soda ash.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_beet#Processing

HFCS production uses enzymes to convert carbohydrates (your own body also uses enzymes to convert carbohydrates).

There also isn't a big difference in how the two are metabolized. Both are broken down into fructose and glucose very early in the digestive cycle. Both enter the blood stream as fructose and glucose in almost identical proportions.

[handmade34]

103. never touch the stuff

read all labels and avoid it like the plague... avoid sugar also... only sweetener used in my house is small amt of xylitol in coffee and maple syrup on waffles... all of it is over processed and dangerous in large ants


http://science.discovery.com/tv-shows/how-its-made/videos/how-its-made-beet-sugar.htm


http://www.naturalnews.com/035935_HFCS_stupid_memory.html

[Dorian Gray]

114. I try to avoid sugars of all kind,

but if I were presented with a choice of HFCS or Sugar in a soda, I'd choose one with regular old cane sugar.

[gvstn]

125. NYC's Bloomberg is an ass that wants to live forever that thinks making everyone else follow his

health regimen will somehow make him live longer. It isn't going to happen, despite his money he is still mortal. But I give him credit for his crusade against trans fat. Without him it would have become more ubiquitous rather than less. HFCS is in the same category, IMO. I wish he would go against HFCS rather than large sodas. Maybe, major manufacturers would switch back to sugar.

I'm not condoning Bloomberg's authoritarian vision of protecting peoples health but when it comes to trans fat and HFCS which the human body doesn't know how to process, I am/would be happy to see the egomaniac get his way. These two are killers. Slow killers but killers all the same.

[HiPointDem]

128. trans fats are found in nature. so is fructose. your body knows how to process them. that

isn't the issue.

[gvstn]

155. Where are trans fats found in nature?

And where are they part of a pre-consummerist diet? Same with HFCS?

They aren't natural and they do bad things to the body. Think back thirty years. What percentage of the populace was overweight?

[HiPointDem]

156. meat & milk. fructose is widely in nature.

mexico is now the fattest country & uses hfcs much less than the US (& until recently much much less).

[liberal_at_heart]

130. HFCS probably isn't good for the body, however I am not a perfect being. I have flaws.

One of those flaws is being addicted to sugar in all of its forms. I eat cookies and drink Dr. Pepper. I occasionally try to get away from this addiction but I usually come right back to it. I'm sure some on here think I am dumb for contributing to my own future health problems, but who really has no flaws? Nobody. I've noticed some on here who eat healthy are judgmental and prejudiced and self righteous. I'm not claiming you are DainBramaged. I just get tired of where the discussions usually end up going when eating sugar or meat come up.

[Major Nikon]

133. Everything in moderation (including moderation)

I like to drink whiskey and smoke my pipe. Both are harmful in excess. I try not to knock anyone's vices that don't hurt anyone else. I don't want anyone coming after mine. If you don't have the freedom to do what you want with your own bag of meat, what freedom does anyone really have?

[Warpy]

135. I avoid it these days

because the different way it's metabolized causes triglycerides to spike and I'm getting up there so I don't think I need that. I also avoid high fructose sweeteners like honey.

I don't make the rules, though, and I certainly don't think the science is completely settled. Everybody else should suit themselves.

[Warren DeMontague]

141. "Earl Butz"

...well, someone had to say it.

[defacto7]

143. A few odd points I haven't heard often in this thread:

The availability and buy-ability of non-natural foods has increased immensely in the last 50 years.

The level of childhood and adult exercise has decreased immensely in the last 50 years.

Sedentary activities have become an exponentially increasing norm in society over the last 50 years.

High caloric products with little nutritional value but high saleability has increased in 50 years.

The art of advertising and its ability to turn any product into a vice has been perfected.

Boredom has become the national pastime of America.

AND.... everyone's metabolism and chemistry cannot be judged as one single form; there are huge natural differences in the way our bodies function and react to the things we ingest.

Whether HFCS is an issue in obesity in the world or not, there are other factors that certainly have a major roll in overweight and cardiovascular health that don't include HFCS. I'm not a fan of HFCS, trans-fat or excitotoxins and avoid them as much as is reasonable. But I am a believer in the philosophy, "anything can be good in moderation" and "anything to an excess can be harmful."

My family includes many centenarians over the last 2 centuries. I hope we continue the trend but I think it has to do with a balanced attitude where food and exercise is concerned and part of this is to be reasonable and not overly excessive in anything including seeking health. If you enjoy and appreciate your body, mind and life, In most cases health will find you.

[Major Nikon]

148. More calories + lower activity levels = more obesity

Very simple stuff. The fix is just as simple. Less calories + higher activity levels = less obesity.

The truly ironic part is we have more information and technology at our disposal to solve these problems more easily than ever before. Virtually all processed food comes with a nutrition label. Restaurants above a certain size must publish nutritional information for their products. Smart phones and computers have hundreds of applications which can easily track diet and exercise.

[DainBramaged]

150. 140 to few. I guess the job of the HFCS defenders didn't go well

Try as they might, they can't turn public discourse to favor them. They can throw their formulas, fake science and Major papers at the wall, but it all slides down like corn syrup thrown at it.


Ive never see a corn syrup topped cupcake. I've seen sugar crystals on them and sugar donuts, but never a 'YUM Corn Syrup covered Dunkin Donuts" because you never will.


I learned from learned people poison is poison, you can disguise it, wrap a bow around it, claim it's something else, in the end, the same snake oil sales people with a modern bent have tried to convince us it's YUM good for us and the same.


I don't think so


Have a good day and try to stay indoors. It's going to be 100 here and high humidity. Even the sugar could melt.

[Major Nikon]

152. "It's the purity crowd telling US what we should eat and what is garbage"

"It has EVERYTHING to do with occasionally enjoying a treat, not your self-righteous indignation"

over America's weight problem.

How pure are thou.......


Meh.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3046686

........but I eat garbage according to them.............because a couple of oreos are shit........the same people who deny soda to people on food stamps, big gulps in NYC, and Oreo's to old men;


meh to them all meh meh meh.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3047405

[HiPointDem]

158. omg. shilling for big food!

[Major Nikon]

160. Perhaps

http://www.sugaralliance.org/us-sugar-industry-map.html

[Evoman]

169. The problem with HFCS isn't so much the actual chemical...it's the fact that it's in bloody

everything in high amounts.

It's actually not that different than any other sugar, not metabolically anyways. The problem is that it's cheap and they put it in everything.

Eating anything sugary in high amounts is not good for your health. I don't quite get why people fixate on HFCS so much (other than, of course, they keep putting it in everything).

[HiPointDem]

172. I'd agree with you there.

[Major Nikon]

173. Sugar is very similar to addictive substances

It acts on pleasure centers in the brain much the same way certain drugs do. You also build up a certain level of tolerance to it, much in the same way some drugs do. I don't often use supplemental sweeteners of any sort. Most commercially sweetened things like soft drinks taste way too sweet for me. You are correct in that the cheapness of supplemental sweetners makes them available in excess to just about everyone. The only reason sucrose is not cheaper than HFCS is the US can't feasibly produce enough of it to meet the very high demand and trade tariffs keep foreign sucrose from flooding the market.

I think some people just like to have their sweet fix and if they can fool themselves into thinking they can switch from HFCS to sucrose all their weight and health problems will magically go away. The belief that someone else is to blame for their ills is an easy trap to fall into.