Had it not been for Snowden they would not have the essential evidence they need to prove their case

[kpete]

Had it not been for Edward Snowden they would not have the essential evidence they need to prove their case.

The lawsuit is specifically in response to the renewal order NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden disclosed to The Guardian, which showed a United States secret surveillance court, the FISA court, had authorized the NSA to collect the “telephony metadata” of all phone calls of Verizon customers over a three-month period.
https://www.eff.org/press/releases/unitarian-church-gun-groups-join-eff-sue-nsa-over-illegal-surveillance
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/07/16/if-snowden-isnt-a-whistleblower-why-are-his-disclosures-on-nsa-spying-having-this-effect/




The suit targets Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which allows the agency, with broad warrants from the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, to obtain a vast array of records, including those held by banks, doctors and phone companies. These broad warrants, the suit says, and the activity of the FISC and the NSA under it also violates the Fourth, and Fifth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution. The lead plaintiff is the First Unitarian Church of Los Angeles.

"The First Unitarian Church of Los Angeles has a proud history of working for justice and protecting people in jeopardy for expressing their political views," said Rev. Rick Hoyt. "In the 1950s, we resisted the McCarthy hysteria and supported blacklisted Hollywood writers and actors, and we fought California's 'loyalty oaths' all the way to the Supreme Court. And in the 1980s, we gave sanctuary to refugees from civil wars in Central America. The principles of our faith often require our church to take bold stands on controversial issues. We joined this lawsuit to stop the illegal surveillance of our members and the people we serve. Our church members and our neighbors who come to us for help should not fear that their participation in the church might have consequences for themselves or their families. This spying makes people afraid to belong to our church community."

The revelations from Edward Snowden's leaks, and the NSA's acknowledgement of the surveillance program resulting from those leaks, could give this case a better chance than the previous challenges EFF and other groups have tried to bring against the program.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/16/1224192/-New-suit-challenges-NSA-surveillance#comments

[cantbeserious]

1. Yes - Truly Happy To See These Events Unfold

eom

[Katashi_itto]

2. k&r

[cascadiance]

3. Snowden is giving us all "standing" to sue the bums in court now...

The excuse that we didn't know definitively that we have any grounds to say we were spied upon no longer will hold up in court. That is the big concern of our government that Snowden gave with that Verizon document (and likely is also mirrored in documents for other phone companies as well).

They will either need to play a "state secrets" privilege card in this case in a very visible and contentious fashion, or get heavily lawyered up!

[Fumesucker]

4. Hence the mother of all hissy fits we have been seeing for the last couple of weeks

The quantity of spin, distraction and disinformation that has been aimed at this particular subject is simply phenomenal.

[byeya]

21. I believe that you have revealed the motivation of the script-readers. Good one.

[blm]

5. The media attention did it, so THAT is a good thing. But, media attention SHOULD have

been there 10 years ago, and, should have hit critical mass by 2006 - all the basic factors are the same, with the additional layer of Bush's illegal wiretapping. It's just THIS particular story as generated by Snowden has received the wall to wall coverage from corporate media.

I can't blame anyone for feeling something's quite not right. Glad for the media attention on the overall situation so the most egregious aspects can be curbed, but, there's another behind the scenes going on to push the story farther, much farther than the media dared when Bush was president and where the programs began.

[cascadiance]

6. I'm hoping at some point that we can put politics aside and join many people to change things

This is more than a "Bush thing" and more than an "Obama thing". Each has had their part in enabling this and not fighting it like they perhaps should have more and at perhaps some point be held accountable with some accomplices depending on that involvement. But this is a systemic problem that is very serious larger than any one politician in Washington, and has been orchestrated by some, in my opinion, very dark and power mongering forces. It will need us to put aside political bickering for us all to demand real changes that will protect us all as Americans again, so that we can have something of what resembles the visions of our forefathers had in mind for this country, and not the police state of the stasi of East Germany, which is where we are heading without changes being made.

You don't have to like Snowden or others that are a part of raising this alarm personally. Some like Snowden or perhaps some Republicans may have some hidden agendas that we need to shut down immediately and tell them "*FOCUS* on the problem!" if they want to work with the rest of us. But we need to put aside some of our differences if we want to really solve this.

[blm]

11. But, to me and others paying attention, he DIDN'T raise the alarm. We knew

and had known for over a decade by the time this story popped. The fact that he has worked for ONLY Bush-aligned firms is what tells me that his purpose may be noble to him, but it screams noble'dupe' being used as a pawn by BushInc. They've always zealously guarded their control over America's relationship with China.

[cascadiance]

14. Before he exposed the documents he did, none of us had "standing" to take this spying to court...

... since none of us "knew" that we were being spied upon, which was the way they kept anyone from bringing this to court and having these practices investigated. That's why there are now TONS of lawsuits, because now, thanks to Mr. Snowden, there's an avenue for us to pursue getting this program investigated through the courts, and we don't have to wait for executive or legislative action to do so. They can only stand in the way with "states privilege", and I think if the Obama administration uses that in this instance, it might bring down impeachment on him if he does.

Yes, I'd known about this since Sibel Edmonds' times too. I'd been in contact with her for many years too. I'd worked like hell to lead at the grass roots level on some local activist efforts here to push our legislators here in Oregon to make Facebook account prying by employers illegal as an avenue to try to fix the problems we've had with the government and private business skirting the 4th amendment, and had a lot of tough discussions on this before all of this came out.

Again, if we just start blaming Bush, and the others just blame Obama, then nothing will get solved, and the powers that be will use that divisiveness to split us apart, and make our divided and more partisan efforts useless. Much as I also hated what Bush started, and much of this crap that he helped put in to motion on steroids, we need to focus on the issues and the system that is broken and fix it. Meet them half way, and slam them if they just want to blame Obama when it IS a larger problem than just Obama.

With this spying and the blackmail that is going along with it, I think it will be very hard to tell who are the victims, who are the complicit enablers, and who are the perpetrators too. We need to be very careful who we point fingers at, and fix the system first so that we can take away the fear that too many have now of our system becoming rotten to the core and screwing everyone including themselves.

[chimpymustgo]

8. Eyes on the prize. Cut the politics. End the surviellence now!

Yes, would have been great if this had been exposed sooner. But Edward Snowden has sacrificed his life and liberty NOW, so Americans can get a glimpse into the tyranny we live under.

Support Snowden NOW. End the surveillance NOW. Cut the bullshit NOW.

[blm]

12. I just don't think it is what you say. I am fine with the added scrutiny

from media and congress but, all of it was out there long ago and ignored. There are politics - and all those roads lead to Bush and China and Jeb2016.

I am not going to get exercised about something that was known and pretend this is all new only because of Snowden - it just wasn't PUBLICIZED WIDELY.

[chimpymustgo]

17. blm, the extent of the surveillance was NOT known. We did not know that EVERYTHING - all phone calls

emails - everything - was being swept up. Members of CONGRESS say THEY didn't know (even after briefings). Hell, Clapper and Alexander have been LYING to Congress and the American people every time they open their mouths. They posted LIES on the NSA website!

You are being disingenuous in a misguided effort to turn this into a political fight. We've got enough of those to deal with. This is a battle about the Constitution and the SOUL of this country!

[blm]

19. Members of congress DIDN'T know or it wasn't their priority THEN when the rabble like us were saying

this was going on for so many years? Heavy media attention changes every story and changes priorities.

YOU be satisfied that Snowden's emergence on this is unattached to any greater machinations. I remember Christopher Drogoul.

[byeya]

22. That's the definition of being marginalized and thus, not of consequence. The documents removed, at

least for now, the marginalization.

[matthews]

10. We would have had to have had a few honest media outlets

for that to have happened. Notice that they're not exactly defending the guy now. But why should they? All this work is going to private contractor's. Who knows who all is involved in the spying?

What I cannot understand is why everyone is trying to kill the messenger. Don't they give a damn about the world that they're leaving their kids and grandkids? Is money that important to them to sell us and future generations out?

[blm]

13. Possibly because putting it all on Snowden distracts from the real players who

wanted a dupe to come along and do exactly what he's doing.

Christopher Drogoul comes to mind. A 35yo bank manager in Atlanta taking the whole fall for the 5 billion dollars that was sent to Iraq via Italy? Another one of Poppy Bush's 'lone wolf' dupes. His defense wanted Kissinger called to the stand, and then shortly after Drogoul took a plea deal, sentenced to 5 years, and died in prison of 'natural causes', and, oh btw, the prisons didn't make it public till 2 weeks after he died.

[matthews]

16. Interesting. I'll have to look it up.

I understand what you're getting at, but I believe that this is really personal with Obama. So far his MO has been to do something extremely unpopular (i.e.Cat Food Commission, Shared Sacrifice. etc.) and then he makes a speech, then goes to ground or leaves the country until it all blows over, or something worse happens. Then he comes back just like nothing ever happened, and it's business as usual. And he's gotten away with it until now.

This time his speeches just aren't cutting it. Especially with the younger voters. All they see is that the new boss and the old boss are pretty much alike. And neither side really gives a damn about the 99%.

[blm]

20. Snowden's aim has certainly been centered on Obama. Who benefits from making it ALL

about Obama as the villain in a story about a surveillance program that was full-blown by 2001, illegally so, then institutionalized by GOP Congress in 2006?

Yes - whenever the Bush family can succeed in tearing down this Dem president as 'no different than Bush' its another step down the road to rehabilitating Bush's presidency, and another step down the road to Jeb2016.

[matthews]

23. I don't see the bush family tearing down Obama. I see Obama as

being the biggest force in the rehab of their reputations, both W and HW. He's been the one with the public praises of their administration. All under the popular excuse 'he HAS to do it'. "Kinder and gentler nation" my patoot.

I am a multi-decade white female LIBERAL Democrat. I have never missed voting in an election and I am no spring chicken. I do not compromise my principals just because someone claims to be a Democrat. And you will NEVER hear any praise come from me for W, HW, Jeb, Cheney, or anyone connected with them.

It is not people like me who will put a crazed Republican in the White House. Obama is doing a good job on his own in that area. He's been in office for almost 5 years now and not only did he NOT keep his promise to rid us of the worst programs and policies of the bush/cheney administration, he's given them new life and added a number of them of his own. Indefinite detention and the Tuesday drone kill lists leap into mind. And now with the revelations of what the NSA and it's private contractor's have been up to, all with the approval and blessing of this administration, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't take a beating in the '14 AND '16 elections.

I voted for the man twice. I even reluctantly walked all over hell to campaign for him the first time around. I say reluctantly because he was not my first choice. My candidate disqualified himself by acting like a he-whore. I refused to go around repeating all his promises the second time because I had caught on by then. But again I voted the 'party' line even though Barack Obama is NOT a Democrat. There is a hell of a difference between a Democrat and a Third Way neo-liberal.

For the life of me I cannot understand blind support for a man who uses those that have the least as bargaining chips. The collaboration with Pete Peterson on Austerity policies, the Cat Food Commission, and the Shared Sacrifice nonsense is very telling, especially since those that have the most aren't expected to sacrifice a damn thing. Putting Social Security and the safety net up for cuts finally did it for me. That told me all I needed to know. He didn't put the Pentagon up for cuts. He didn't put up policies like the 'Quantitive Easings' up for cuts. He put the programs that those that have the least depend upon for cuts. That is not a Democrat, that is an opportunist. And it was a good lesson about politics in today's America.The poor are on their own. The aged are on their own. The sick are on their own. (I think you get my drift.)

Instead of this healthcare nonsense that Obama has decided that corporate America will get a pass on for another year (but the uninsured don't), he should have and could have come up with a jobs bill during the time he spent on it. That is what we needed most AND STILL DO. McJobs and temporary work just doesn't cut it. And it leaves very little opportunity for advancement. Unless you get a promotion to telling the other burger flippers what to do. But that still doesn't pay the bills. See I'm old enough to remember good paychecks that could support a family. I am currently looking, and have been, for quite some time. Me and millions of others. People really need to face the fact that the unemployment is much higher than the
official statistics that this administration releases every month. Especially among the young and those in the older bracket, like myself.

This is not about Snowden. This is about an administration who's continued to allow unconstitutional secret programs and secret courts to become the law of the land. I was told that this guy was a 'Constitutional Scholar'. Well, he certainly does not act like one. I sometimes wonder if he's even read it.

I got in trouble last night for supposedly getting personal on a post. I have been properly chastised and humbled. So if you are insinuating that I am a ringer who is trying to attack Obama to further another party's agenda, I'll tell you that I take that as a personal attack. But I'm not an alerter. I will defend myself. Openly. Every time. I intend to be a worthy contributor to this site. First chance I get, I'll donate. (Was laid off and haven't found a job yet, so money is scarce to non-existent right now.) I have been a follower and participant in the political process since I was old enough to vote back in the Late Cretaceous. And I will be until they bury me. And I remember what the Democratic Party is supposed to stand for. And I'll be a Democrat until the bitter end.

[blm]

24. There is nothing in what I said that was even close to being personal to YOU. I have

always made it clear that the sheer force of the high profile attacks in the corpmedia aiming ONLY at Obama have another purpose. Snowden was always just the vessel.
Geez...where on earth did you come to think it was you? I'm talking about the Bush operatives who I believe have groomed another unwitting dupe to do what they need done. They've been doing it for decades.

[matthews]

26. Yeah, right. It's mind control. Them damn bush's are amazing. nt

[blm]

27. Perhaps his resume was meaningless to you, but, to me it said a lot about his influences

and explained why he ignored concerns when Bush was president, though the surveillance was far more widespread and far more egregious, including illegal wiretapping.

[matthews]

28. I don't believe that it was far more anything back then. If you have some information

that shows that's the case I'd like to read it. Not being snarfy (for a change). Just respectfully asking if you have something that says otherwise.


US surveillance has 'expanded' under Obama, says Bush's NSA director

William Hague to address parliament on UK intelligence use of Prism as US politicians speak out over secret surveillance
Sunday 9 June 2013 13.21 EDT

The former director of the US National Security Agency has indicated that surveillance programs have "expanded" under Barack Obama's time in office and said the spy agency has more powers now than when he was in command.

Michael Hayden, who served most of his tenure as NSA director under George W Bush, said there was "incredible continuity" between the two presidents.

HERE'S HOW The British foreign secretary, William Hague, described the program and its ramifications (scary):

"If you are a law-abiding citizen of this country going about your business and your personal life you have nothing to fear – nothing to fear about the British state or intelligence agencies listening to the contents of your phone calls or anything like that. Indeed you will never be aware of all the things those agencies are doing to stop your identity being stolen and to stop a terrorist blowing you up tomorrow."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/us-surveillance-expanded-obama-hayden



Published on Sunday, June 9, 2013 by Common Dreams
Bush-Era Spying 'Made Legal' Under Obama


Speaking with Fox News Sunday anchor Chris Wallace about what President Obama has done with surveillance programs inherited from the Bush administration, Michael Hayden, former director of both the NSA and CIA answered:

In terms of surveillance? Expanded [the programs] in volume, changed the legal grounding for them a little bit. [...]

We’ve gotten more of these records over time. With the amendment to the FISA Act, in 2008, which Senator Obama finally voted for, NSA is actually empowered to do more things than I was empowered to do under President Bush’s special authorization.

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/06/09-0

***

[grasswire]

7. Hooray for the Unitarian Church for joining that suit.

I'm impressed.

[Major Hogwash]

9. There is no secret court.

I'm sure the author of that diary at DailyKos knew that though.

*yawn*

[reusrename]

15. Your kidding, right?

Sarcasm?

[blackspade]

18. I can only hope that....

this information leads to the demolition of the NSA surveillance of American citizens.
It is a gross violation of the 4th and 5th Amendments.

[randome]

25. Don't they need to prove injury?

Don't they need to prove that their data was actually viewed to support the concept of 'spying'?

I don't see this as anything but a waste of time and energy.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]