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Why torture won't work on Snowden... (Original Post) Luminous Animal Jul 2013 OP
Actually, ProSense Jul 2013 #1
You misunderstood what he was saying. He comment has nothing to do with withstanding torture. Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #4
No one needs to "torture" that guy. Just deprive him of his laptops, turn off the wifi, and he'll MADem Jul 2013 #2
What would be the point? Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #6
Well, the point is that no one is going to "torture" him. MADem Jul 2013 #18
Who says the point of torture ceonupe Jul 2013 #3
Torture? WovenGems Jul 2013 #5
But if you kill him (or maybe just render him incommunicado) the dead man's switch discloses th info FarCenter Jul 2013 #7
What makes you think that the Russians won't be affected, as well? Or any other government... Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #9
Russia is likely affected minimally. UK is other affected party, and maybe Germany. FarCenter Jul 2013 #11
then what IS the point.....he can never release it....as THAT would trigger HIS demise! VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #15
So, the North Koreans want to screw with the US. How best to do it? MADem Jul 2013 #19
NK don't want to "screw" with the US. ConcernedCanuk Jul 2013 #21
So you actually believe there is NO nation that sees the obvious advantages in a MADem Jul 2013 #23
So now he is not even in control of the information? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #8
It's encrypted. Nobody controls all the information. It could be a series & layers of locks. Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #10
Then what he has done IS exactly that.....whats to prevent our perceived enemies from getting it? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #13
Because there is no "it" to get. Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #16
but based on what he DID have access to.....you have to assume there was. VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #17
And you don't have to explain that....I have a technology degree.... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #14
Because secretly he is the Man of Steel. Rex Jul 2013 #12
Dude thinks he and Greenwald can beat old KGB Putin at DevonRex Jul 2013 #20
And... Because MOST Of The World... Would Be Horrified !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #22
It's not supposed to work on Snowden Fumesucker Jul 2013 #24
Suppose he's given them to other people. Then they can drug him, pnwmom Jul 2013 #25

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
1. Actually,
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 05:34 PM
Jul 2013

"Why torture won't work on Snowden...

He doesn't know or have access to all the keys to the encrypted information.

No one person does."

...he's immune to torture.

Edward Snowden Declares Himself Torture-Proof
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023275112

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
4. You misunderstood what he was saying. He comment has nothing to do with withstanding torture.
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 05:50 PM
Jul 2013

Torture won't work because he knows "how to keep such information from being compromised" That is, he does not know the key (or probably keys) himself.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
2. No one needs to "torture" that guy. Just deprive him of his laptops, turn off the wifi, and he'll
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 05:46 PM
Jul 2013

THINK he is being tortured.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
18. Well, the point is that no one is going to "torture" him.
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 06:49 PM
Jul 2013

But some hyperbolic folks seem to want that to happen, so they can say "See? SEEEEEE?"

 

ceonupe

(597 posts)
3. Who says the point of torture
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 05:48 PM
Jul 2013

Is to extract information?

In many places including the US its used for punishment.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
7. But if you kill him (or maybe just render him incommunicado) the dead man's switch discloses th info
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 05:57 PM
Jul 2013

So although the Russians may not be able to get exclusive use of the information, they can cause it to be published.

Snowden's scheme is personal protection and deterrence only against those who do not want the information publicized.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
9. What makes you think that the Russians won't be affected, as well? Or any other government...
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 06:00 PM
Jul 2013

Double agents may be exposed or collaborative efforts.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
11. Russia is likely affected minimally. UK is other affected party, and maybe Germany.
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 06:06 PM
Jul 2013

But Russia and the UK have not been getting on very well, so Russia would be pleased with their embarrassment.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
19. So, the North Koreans want to screw with the US. How best to do it?
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 06:53 PM
Jul 2013

Kill this tool and let conspiracy theorists think that Uncle Sam did it.

Snowden is too clever by way more than half. If that's his actual game, he may be sure that the US doesn't kill him, but he can be sure Russia, China, North Korea, the Taliban, Venezuela, and anyone else having a beef with the US now have an easy-peasy way to screw with them, at the cost of just one assassin and one life, two, tops, if they want to pretend that their assassin is a CIA asset and they kill him, too.

It's not "personal protection." It's "come kill me NOW."

 

ConcernedCanuk

(13,509 posts)
21. NK don't want to "screw" with the US.
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 08:41 PM
Jul 2013

.
.

Or anyone else if you think about it.

They just want to be left ALONE!!

Sure - they posterize against the USA because of the well known fact that the USA bombs the shit out of any country they feel like - and get away with it!

So I do not find any fault with NK or Iran, or any other country that wants nuclear weapons to keep the USA from bombing the shit out of them.

CC
.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
23. So you actually believe there is NO nation that sees the obvious advantages in a
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 08:51 PM
Jul 2013

Dead Ed? That they're all going to ignore the low-hanging fruit that is Ed Snowden, should he ever be in a position where he can walk down a street?

I don't mean to be rude or cruel, but that is a tremendously naive attitude.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
8. So now he is not even in control of the information?
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 05:58 PM
Jul 2013

Oh he definitely deserves being charged with much worse than he already faces....No wonder HE fears he will face the Death Penalty. I noticed that about his "asylum request" from Putin that he made that claim. My reaction was that HE must feel he has committed treason. And if he doesn't even control what he claims he stole....well may be now we know why!

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
10. It's encrypted. Nobody controls all the information. It could be a series & layers of locks.
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 06:05 PM
Jul 2013

Each unbreakable and spread out amongst a network of people and machines each holding a key that would unlock another.

FYI, Manning has been charged with "aiding the enemy" and he DOES NOT believe he has committed treason.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
13. Then what he has done IS exactly that.....whats to prevent our perceived enemies from getting it?
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 06:24 PM
Jul 2013

He is in SERIOUS trouble....


Manning is MILITARY....damn people always overlook that!

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
12. Because secretly he is the Man of Steel.
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 06:07 PM
Jul 2013

And we don't have a large enough supply of Kryptonite to make an impact.

DevonRex

(22,541 posts)
20. Dude thinks he and Greenwald can beat old KGB Putin at
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 07:27 PM
Jul 2013

his own game. Thing is, Russian law allows Putin to kill anybody he wants to, to get any information he wants to. Or he can just kill them for the fun of it. Just say he's a terrorist. The law passed in 2006 specifically says that. The FSB is authorized to kill anybody Putin says is a terrorist. Snowden, Greenwald, their friends, coworkers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/11/AR2006121101434_2.html

"The FSB can take action against any kind of danger that it sees -- not just terrorism but political and economic dangers," said Andrei Soldatov, editor of Agentura.Ru, an Internet publication that monitors the security services. "Now the FSB is more powerful than the KGB was."
The FSB's multiple briefs include intelligence, counterintelligence, counterterrorism, economic crime, electronic espionage, border control, social monitoring and, some observers claim, responsibility for the country's computerized election system.
Snip
This summer, Russia's security services, including the FSB, were given the legal power to hunt down and kill terrorism suspects overseas if ordered to do so by the president.

"This is a preventive measure," said Anatoly Kulikov, deputy chairman of the security committee in the lower house of parliament, after the passage in July of legislation giving Putin the right to deploy stealth forces against enemies of the state. "This should cool down, at the very least, people who are nurturing their own ideology of force and other such intentions. They must know what they can expect." END

Renember Alexander Litvinenko, a former FSB agent that was killed in London with poison? That was a direct result of this law, although the Russians claim it's only used in so-called "failed states" and that in other countries they go through their intelligence agencies. I suppose MI6 must've refused to assassinate him for the Russians. That was sarcasm.

Did you read the Der Spiegel article about the information Snowden gave them? If not, do SSO. There are 2 very important things in it. First is the level of cooperation between Germany and the U.S. Germany is prohibited from collecting Intel on its own citizens. We do it for them. That is in there. Although Der Spiegel rushes over it. The second is that they didn't publish what they were given because it endangered real people who work at NSA. And they found that to be objectionable and needless. So do I.

There's one more thing I had a problem with. They said it's possible that the U.S. is even spying on Merkel!!!ELEVENS!! Oh, come ON. This is a partnership. As Der Spiegel noted. A mutually beneficial partnership. We get to be there to spy on Russia (and Slavic countries and jihadist terrorist cells) as long as we collect the data Germany wants. But, Germany is not prohibited from detecting cyber attacks and infiltration. They'd know in a second if anyone pierced their shields. They are among the best at cyber security. Perhaps the best. The reason? Because they do not, as a nation, engage in cyber intelligence on a huge scale. Although they do much more than their citizens are aware of. Purely for defense, you see.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
24. It's not supposed to work on Snowden
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 09:37 PM
Jul 2013

Torture would be very effective against potential future leakers though.

pnwmom

(108,995 posts)
25. Suppose he's given them to other people. Then they can drug him,
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 09:41 PM
Jul 2013

as they've done in the past with other agents, and get the names from him.

It will just take them longer, having to go after more people.

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