So, how do I teach my child to react if being followed by a stranger at night?

[world wide wally]

Are they supposed to comply with anything the stranger says?
Stop if the stranger says "stop"
Are they supposed to fight back if being threatened?
Accept the fact that they have been judged to be a "thug" asshole by the stranger and just prepare to die?
Run as fast as you can from all strangers?

Just exactly WTF am I supposed to teach them?

[cantbeserious]

1. Run, Run, Run ...

eom

[kestrel91316]

46. Running is prima facie evidence of guilt in FL if you are black.

[Hoyt]

52. These bastards would shoot them in the back.

[SemperEadem]

61. wrong answer... the woman wants her son alive

not dead to amuse you...

[HiPointDem]

70. and the fucker will run after you like zimmy ran after martin.

[morningfog]

2. Hard questions to answer, especially if the child is black.

[Crabby Appleton]

3. If they have a cell phone in their hand call 911

and run.

[bluestate10]

73. I agree. The best answer is to call 911 and detail what is happening while trying to

stay away from the threatening person. Also, paying attention to where one is running helps. Some actions will come back as evidence of guilt, for example, the claim by Zimmerman's defense that Martin was looking into windows. It is possible that Martin started looking into windows after Zimmerman started following him as a way to look for someone who may be could help him (Martin).

[blkmusclmachine]

4. Don't be black, or latino, or female, or ...

[Ruby the Liberal]

5. Very good questions that deserve answers

I wonder if the State of Florida will release new safety Stranger Danger guidelines over this.

[rollin74]

6. run, make noise to draw attention, call 911 asap

[MineralMan]

7. Tell them to run away as fast as they can.

If they think the person is actually following them, that is the answer. Run away. It's the safest possible thing you can do.

[LaydeeBug]

10. No child can run faster than a bullet. Teach them how to AIM. nt

[MineralMan]

14. Nonsense.

Every self defense expert will tell you that running is your best defense if someone is armed and you are not. Every step you take makes it more unlikely that the armed person will hit you, even if they shoot. There is no defense for an unarmed person facing someone who is armed. Run! Run for your life!

Children are not, and should not be armed. That's crazy stuff.

[polichick]

25. Don't they also say not to run in a straight line...

In case they shoot?

That's also what you tell kids about alligators - run in a zig-zag pattern since gators can't turn quickly.

[MineralMan]

30. Distance is your friend. Most people are very poor

shots. Even cops rarely hit someone if that person is running. The farther you are away, the less likely you are to be hit. You could zig-zag, but that doesn't increase the distance as quickly.

Often the person you're running from will simply not even try to shoot. That would depend on their reason for confronting you in the first place. The person planning to rob you won't shoot at you if you run. It draws too much attention. The person following you is also unlikely to shoot. The gun is there to make you do something you don't want to do, unless the plan is to simply kill you, which is very, very rare.

So, running and getting as far away as fast as possible is the best plan. Trayvon, for example, circled back around or something. Had he simply fled the scene, this might have turned out completely differently. He shouldn't have to run, clearly. He shouldn't have been followed at all. But, running probably would have saved his life. He had a cell phone. The other guy had a gun. Run!

[SemperEadem]

63. a black child running will warrant a bullet in the back

No, they are to stop and submit themselves to their rights being violated and hopefully, they will live long enough to see their parents again and go home and sleep in their own bed.

[LaydeeBug]

67. Again, your OPINION, vs FACT...Notice how you switched it around when you said...

"Every self defense expert will tell you that running is your best defense if someone is armed and you are not." <<<------ I am not talking about "...and you are not". I am talking about "...and you *ARE*" (armed that is) thanks

Please proceed.

[Iggo]

64. More guns!

I knew it!

Yes!!!

[LaydeeBug]

66. Sad, but true in Florida, where the sidewalk is a weapon, and thus, a fair fight. nt

[LaydeeBug]

8. you should arm your child and teach him to shoot anyone who follows him. Sad, but true...

and I don't agree with that, but *fuck* if I'm not going to play the hand I'm dealt, and not the hand I want.

Better to be judged by a group of 12 than carried out in a casket by a group of 6. If they can call the sidewalk a weapon, you'd best teach your child to carry a weapon for his protection.

[MineralMan]

16. That's an absolute crock. I'm sorry, but that is about the

worst advice I can imagine. More guns won't solve the problem.

[LaydeeBug]

19. You are entitled to your own OPINION, but you are not entitled to your own FACTS

The police will not protect minority children in Florida this day. If your child is gunned down in Florida today, the police will take the shooter's word for it. Had TM been armed he might be here today.

This isn't about what I *want*. This is about *the way it is*.

[MineralMan]

22. Running will keep the child from being gunned down.

That is a fact. Your plan will get more children killed. Which would you prefer?

[LaydeeBug]

23. Children can't run faster than bullets, so....um....BULLSHIT

Your "fact" is fiction. Yep. More people will be killed. They are armed too.

With the sidewalk.

[MineralMan]

24. I see that you will not be reasoned with.

Please proceed, then...

[LaydeeBug]

27. You are the one who can't be reasoned with. Here is REALITY, kids can't outrun bullets

no matter how hard that chaffs your behind.

Please proceed.

[ananda]

33. I guess it's pretty counterintuitive to think that running would be the best option.

But I think MineralMan has made a good case for it.

I got to thinking about what would've happened if Trayvon had been armed, and
I could think of no good outcome.

He might have shot Martin, and then what? I can think of no good criminal justice
scenario for Trayvon here.

He might have been shot by Martin... and that happened anyway.

An innocent bystander might've been shot.

Also, I really don't want to send a message that young people, or anybody for
that matter, should arm themselves. From all I've been reading, armed outcomes
are seldom good.

[LaydeeBug]

43. Oh, this isn't *about* a "good outcome". This is about PROTECTING MINORITY CHILDREN since they now

say the sidewalk is a weapon. Minority children have the sidewalk. White men have loaded guns.

Bottom. line.

And Mineral Man has been gunning for me for quite some time now. It's practically par for the course.

[darkangel218]

57. So you sugest we should arm children now?

Holy shit...

[Iggo]

72. More guns is always the answer.

Ain't ya heard?

[PsychGrad]

62. Exactly....

how I'm feeling today too. I work with kids, young black male kids, and I can't look them in the face and honestly say that they are safe if they don't instigate or react. I could barely say it before, but today? I absolutely can't say it honestly. So, I guess I will tell them that they need a gun too - even if they are under aged to have one. That, without a gun, they have a 50/50 chance of being killed if they are attacked or approached - and I don't like those odds, at all. Heck, if they shoot and kill someone, they just have to claim they were in fear of their life and had no other choice, right? Because the other person will be dead and can't talk. I mean, hey, if that's how we're playing, then let's play I guess.

[Pelican]

9. Go home and don't circle back to confront....

[kestrel91316]

47. IOW: Know your place.

[Hoyt]

54. You still getting your "evidence" from Free Republic, Stormfront, or worse.

[Pelican]

60. Take a deep breath....

Count to 10 and try again...

[WinkyDink]

56. GO HOME? Oh, now the populace must give over the public arena to STALKERS AND KILLERS?

[PsychGrad]

65. Right....

That is EXACTLY what some think. That Trayvon shouldn't have been walking around his neighborhood at 7pmish at night, talking on his phone with his gf, with a hoodie on to keep the rain off of his head and hair. He was just "leisurely walking around" according to Zimmerman - well damn him. I can leisurely walk around my neighborhood, why can't Trayvon? Oh - because I'm a white female, bc other than that - there is NO difference at all. Absolutely ridiculous to say that to avoid getting killed you must only go straight to where you are going and go straight home, no lollygagging for you kid, bc it makes you look suspicious... wtf is going on with these people, seriously?!!!

[Decoy of Fenris]

11. Run. Run as fast as you can and don't stop running. n/t

[burnodo]

12. find the closest front door and ring the doorbell

That may not work in all situations, but at least there'll be a third-party witness to the events.

[polichick]

40. Except when the people in the house would rather watch you and your...

children drown than help a person of color.

Remember that woman who tried to get help for her sons caught in flood waters? They died.

This country has so lost its way!

[11 Bravo]

13. What color is your child? Sadly, that makes all the difference.

[Nye Bevan]

15. Call 911 on their cellphone and get out of there ASAP.

Don't engage with the person. Don't hurl insults. Keep 911 on the line until you are in a safe place.

[MineralMan]

17. I'd advise getting out of there and THEN calling 911.

Run for your life!

[Nye Bevan]

26. I'm thinking, if 911 is on the line, the call is being recorded,

so if something ugly does happen there will at least be an audio recording.

Also, you can talk to the dispatcher as you are running away.

[REP]

20. Same thing I was taught: get away quickly; get to a public place and call the police

Even in the 70s and 80s it was pretty standard for girls to be taught this.

[HockeyMom]

29. The police are there not to stop crimes or protect you

they are only there to investigate crime after it has happened. That is according to the gunners right on this site. Go on the Gun Control RKBA here. I have been told that by them myself. Child? I guess they think that criminals will only attack children at school or in their homes when there are gun toting teachers and parents around?

[REP]

42. I agree; police are largely useless but the call will be on file

But sometimes you luck out, and they're having doughnuts nearby.

Though gotta say one of our local PDs actually does their job well and professionally and does respond to "there's a crazy man harassing me" calls.

[PsychGrad]

69. As a child of the 70s and 80s,

I agree, except for one point. When I had these discussions with my Mom as a kid, I was told to do whatever it took to get away. If I couldn't get away, I was told to fight with everything that I have, and I would have - still would. I don't think Trayvon circled back for a confrontation - I think he tried to get away and Zimmerman just kept coming. And just by sheer coincidence, Zimmerman ended up in a place that Trayvon couldn't hide from him and felt as if he had no choice but to confront - and clarify. That's why he asked Zimmerman, "You got a problem?"... In other words, "Why the eff are you following me dude?"... At that point, I believe that Trayvon was in fear for HIS own life - I would have been. And he reacted accordingly since flight didn't work - he used fight. Too bad that Zimmerman had a gun - or Trayvon would have just kicked the crap out of him and their lives would have gone on. Maybe Trayvon would have gotten probation or something, but nobody would be dead. The injuries that Zimmerman had were not life threatening, and I don't care that he is trying to say they were, he's a liar, and he knows it - or he is a truly wimpy and scared individual that he thought THAT was life threatening. Perhaps, since he's such a wimp, he shouldn't stalk people at night calling them fucking punks and assholes...

[HiPointDem]

35. "fight like hell" = reason to shoot you in 'self-defense'

[HiPointDem]

39. it's assuming *nothing*. if you fight your attacker, the attacker can claim self-defense after

he shoots you.

[HiPointDem]

48. bullshit apologetics. the shooter always wins.

[kestrel91316]

49. After your attacker shoots and kills you, he can claim you attacked first.

See how that works?

[REP]

44. I've fought off several attackers. Haven't been shot.

Fight like hell is always got advice when grabbed/attacked. Better to go out fighting. Also, better chance to get away and run (most people are terrible shots and it's harder to hit a moving target).

[Azathoth]

28. These posts can't be for real

No, you aren't supposed to teach them to start a fist fight when they feel "threatened."

You teach them what parents have taught their kids forever:

If you're out alone, stay in well-lit areas. If someone starts following you, DON'T run into a dark alley and then wait there for some unknown reason. Make your way to safety -- either home or a place with a lot of people -- as quickly as possible. Call 911. If the person actively tries to approach you, run.

[MineralMan]

32. Run away! That's the best advice.

Someone upthread is recommending arming kids and teaching them to aim well. Ridiculous.

[HiPointDem]

36. why not? it's the logical outcome of gun culture.

[leftstreet]

55. Trade your mace and cellphones for Glocks, I say

I mean, why the hell not?

These assholes always manage to live through a proper macing, and cops can take eons to get there.

Shoot the sonofabitch dead before anyone shows up, then massage whatever details are necessary to make sure the prosecutors in your state can't do shit!




Just in case:

[Baitball Blogger]

31. Call 911 and get on the public record.

You might not survive the vigilante attack, but at least your last words will be recorded.

[mr_liberal]

34. Turn around, go back and confront the person.

Then punch them in the face, jump on top of them and bash their head into the pavement, and hope they don't have a gun.

That would be the smart thing to do.

[HiPointDem]

37. no, better to stalk some teenager walking home from the store, continue to stalk him even when

told not to by the police, and even when you're safely away from him & his dangerous sidewalk, and then shoot him fucking dead while claiming self-defense.

[JustAnotherGen]

41. Was this meant as

A cynical comment on current events? I just served on the jury for this post and one of the two who voted to let it stand suggested that this is what it was. True or False?

[HiPointDem]

50. no, it's pretty clear what it is.

[kestrel91316]

51. No, it's somebody claiming that Trayvon is responsible for his own murder,

using Zimmy's unproven, self serving version of events.

[mr_liberal]

59. I forgot, most people here seem to not know what

happened. Yes, its about the Zimmerman case. Its what actually happened to Zimmerman.

The lesson from this case is to NOT do what Trayvon did, but instead keep going home or call the police yourself.

[HiPointDem]

71. sure, "mr liberal".

[grasswire]

53. Travel in pairs?

I think that might be the best protection.

Never go out alone.

[WinkyDink]

58. OFGS. "Travel in pairs."

[pasto76]

68. kill them before they kill you

[Igel]

74. Depends.

My kid's 9. I teach him to evaluate. If he's with a group of adults, then he has the luxury of asking, politely, what the guy wants.

Otherwise his goal is to escape. That might mean blending in with a large group of kids. It probably means running. It might mean yelling for help, if people are around. Otherwise, it's a waste of oxygen and he'll need his breath. If home is an option, then he should run home. Otherwise he should run to find a responsible adult. If he's caught, his goal is to escape. Inflict pain; damage is beside the point. He can't incapacitate anybody, but biting and scratching and tripping might work fine. Then run.


When he's older, it's the same. Ask, if it's safe. Otherwise merge with the group for safety.

Otherwise escape. Again, run, yell if there are people nearby. If he has a phone, then 911 and stay on the line--put the phone in his pocket, don't lose it. If he's caught, fight and yell. Again, pain is the goal. If you escape, don't stay for that exra kick--he might grab you. Just run. If you're caught again, again, go for pain.

When he's bigger yet and might be able to fight reasonably, the goal is still self-defense. Don't lose your cool. You want the guy to go away, you don't want to put the guy away.

I don't see why it matters if the guy is a racist or a pedophile or a mugger. Not a topic that should especially interest my kid at the time, his focus should be on his own safety and, next, those around him. I'm not going to say, "Well, Igeling, if it's a pedophile, run, but if it's a mugger, it's not such a big deal." No. Fear is the mind-killer, but idle questions are distractions. Just escape.

That's all cancelled if the guy pulls and aims a gun at relatively close range or gives evidence of being a good shot. They you comply and don't give him a reason to kill you until it's in his plans. At the same time, you look for every opportunity to escape or draw attention to yourself. And it doesn't matter if the guy just happened to snag you as he came out of a bank or is a racist intent on race war.

And in the end he might have to improvise. If the guy follows you and stops 10 feet away and asks, "What's your problem?" then you answer matter of factly. "I'm Igeling. Who are you and why are you asking?" But not in a way to provoke him. He might be psychotic. He might just be out of breath and suspicious.

------------
There are the general safety rules. The "always rules" that say he may have all the rights in the world, but he's still responsible for his own safety. Think of it as "empowerment."

Respect curfew. Don't be out late at night.

Be transparent. People should know when you're leaving, when you're arriving, where you'll be in between. If it's multiple places, you should give people some idea as to how long in each place.

Be alert. Don't just look out for who might hurt you, look out for your escape route. Know exits, fire alarms, location of phones, and where responsible adults are likely to be.

Be alert 2. Avoid being in danger. Look ahead. No need to be paranoid, but be aware.

Buddy system. Avoid being in strange places, but if you have to be then don't be alone.

Don't be a fool. Don't provoke people. Don't create circumstances to make you into a victim.

[1-Old-Man]

75. If they are in Florida you better teach then to shoot first

Explain later.