Snowden affair: South American countries recall European ambassadors over Morales incident

[morningfog]

* * *

Last night, in an unprecedented diplomatic move, four South American countries, members of the South American free-trade organization Mercosur, the South American equivalent of NAFTA, announced they were recalling their ambassadors from a number of European countries.

Just over a week ago, a plane carrying Bolivia’s President Evo Morales was refused permission by France, Spain, Portugal and Italy as suspicions arose that that Edward Snowden, the former US intelligence worker who leaked secret data, might have been on board. The plane was forced to make an unscheduled stop at an airport in Vienna.

The aircraft was searched by Austrian officials, and needless to say, it had arrived in Vienna minus Mr. Snowden, who remained (and remains) ensconced at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo International Airport. At the time Morales’ aircraft was diverted, Bolivia’s UN ambassador didn’t mince his words. According to The Independent, he told reporters, “We're talking about the president on an official trip, after an official summit, being kidnapped."

At the time of his unscheduled 13-hour delay in Vienna, Morales is reported to have told reporters that the governments of France, Italy, Portugal and Spain had made a mistake of historic proportions. And so last night’s events have proved.
The scale of the resentment in South America at the treatment of President Morales was demonstrated last night. At a summit meeting of the South American trading bloc, Mercosur (or Mercosul in Spanish) held in Uruguayan capital Montevideo, representatives from Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela and Uruguay slammed the Morales incident, saying it violated international law. The four countries said they were recalling their envoys from France, Spain, Portugal and Italy.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/14982830-snowden-affair-south-american-countries-recall-european-ambassadors-over-morales-incident

[cantbeserious]

1. Seems That The New World Order Has Hit Some Speed Bumps

eom

[NoPasaran]

2. A few diplomats get to pad their freqent flyer mileage

Meh

[railsback]

3. Someday, these countries are going to have to join the 21st Century

..or the 20th century, for that matter.

The Pacific Alliance is already blowing their doors off in revenue from trade, more than 3 to 1. No one cares.

[morningfog]

4. You mean bow to imperialism?

[railsback]

6. If you say so

Realistically, no country can survive without trade. Being isolationists and selling your goods to your poor neighbors isn't going to get you very far.

[think]

28. If one familiarizes themself with Latin American history

And understands the relationships between the US military, US multi national corporations, and right wing dictators they might come to a different conclusion as to the root cause of the economic troubles in the region.

[emsimon33]

29. Agreed!

[byeya]

8. You really and truly don't know squat do you?

[railsback]

10. Apparently I know mountains more

And so does Correa.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. I love this imperialist talk

Nationalist is the last refuge of the scoundrel... Sam Clemens

[railsback]

19. Sure, if you live in the Stone Ages

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. So you are an Imperialist I see.

In what mold I wonder?

[railsback]

30. Nations have been trading for eons and have always looked for ways to trade more

The world made the system we're in now. Nations that would rather thump their chests instead of keeping up with the times, like Mercosur, will be left behind. Socialist states require a ton of money. Not going to survive trading wooden nickels with your like minded neighbors.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. And nations also practice trade wars

When serious breaches of sovereignty do occur and make new alliances. I am sorry it's hard for you to understand just how serious this is...and how serious the consequences can (are starting) to be.

We are not exceptional, just an empire in decline. Neo liberal policies are also getting rejected and Americans shoud as well...they have not been good for our middle class.

But let me not interrupt the Pom Pom dance...USA, USA, USA, USA!!!!

[railsback]

32. Well, I suppose you could continue to waste your time wishing for a perfect world

But it isn't going to happen. In the meantime, nations needing to boost their revenue (Mercosur) are going to wither on the vine if they don't figure out how to play the game (Pacific Alliance). In its short existence, the PA already exports 60% more than Mercosur. Sitting in the corner, refusing to participate because of 'pride' isn't productive at all, especially for all the people in those countries.

[eridani]

37. With climate change, countries more concerned with trade than sustainable production--

--are going down hard. All that long human history of trade that you cite occurred in a stable climate.

[railsback]

42. That doesn't make sense at all.

[eridani]

47. I think everyone else reading the thread understood it just fine n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. I guess you can waste your time with personal attacks.

And ignore the realities of international politics and the world order.

There is a long history of why LatAm trusts the US as far as it can throw it. I coud recomend books but they can be challenging to the imperial world view...suffice it to say it's not pride. Nor is the US the only market, if all you care is about that.

I am sorry you cannot see how this will affect the Empire in non positive ways. I guess though, you are willing to protect the white man's burden though...so go enlist...perhaps you too can pursue Sandino, or his decendants to impose our ways...all in the name of the American Fruit Company...

[railsback]

41. I suppose Germany should have followed the same model

instead of moving forward and becoming a powerhouse. What a bunch of maroons, eh?

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. I suppose all you have left

Are classic personal attacks...

As well as ignorance and pride in it.

I actually feel sorry for you...

[railsback]

44. Wow.

Everything is a personal attack with you if it doesn't fit the meme, isn't it. Oops, sorry, personal attack.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Good bye

I am done wasting my time...*plonk*

[Igel]

5. I thought "Mercosul" was Portuguese.

Is it is a case that it's just one of those languages and it doesn't matter which?

[Art_from_Ark]

33. You are correct

Sur-- Spanish
Sul-- Portuguese

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Ingrates! After our long and humanitarian history of good deeds in Latin America!

Well,........except for those pools of bloods we spilled.

[Catherina]

13. Could you list a few good deeds please?

Thank you my friend.

[Art_from_Ark]

34. Alliance for Progress won John F. Kennedy a lot of friends in Latin America

It's too bad his successors weren't as devoted to its principles.

[Catherina]

35. Good one. Thank you Art_from_Ark n/t

[Art_from_Ark]

36. And then, there was also Jimmy Carter:

Like its predecessors, the Carter administration did not have a policy toward Latin America when it took office, but it did have a predisposition toward a new approach, based on the views and experiences of the senior decision-makers and the issues that it had to face in the region. Jimmy Carter had a deeper interest in Latin America and the Caribbean than either of his two principal foreign policy advisers, Secretary of State Cyrus Vance or National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brezezinski. This was partly because Carter had much less experience in other areas of the world than they had, but also because he spoke some Spanish, the first president to do so since Thomas Jefferson, and he had travelled with his family or as governor to Mexico, Brazil, Colombia, Argentina, and Costa Rica.

Carter's emphasis on human rights was a central element of his policy toward Latin America because of a deep personal commitment, the massive human rights violations in the region, and the apparent lack of interest by the two previous administrations. Even before his election, Carter had already shaped this concern for human rights into a framework for policy, and he outlined it in a speech on September 8, 1976:

"I do not say to you that we can remake the world in our own image. I recognize the limits on our power, but the present administration - our government - has been so obsessed with balance of power politics that it has often ignored basic American values and a common and proper concern for human rights.

"Ours is a great and a powerful nation, committed to certain enduring ideals, and those ideals must be reflected not only in our domestic policy but also in our foreign policy. There are practical, effective ways in which our power can be used to alleviate human suffering around the world. We should begin by having it understood that if any nation...deprives its own people of basic human rights, that fact will help shape our own people's attitude toward that nation's repressive government...Now we must be realistic...we do not and should not insist on identical standards...We can live with diversity in governmental systems, but we cannot look away when a government tortures people or jails them for their beliefs."


http://cartercenter.org/documents/1243.pdf

[SidDithers]

9. Let them stamp their feet and have their little pout...

I'm sure the European nations will survive.

Sid

[temmer]

45. sure the Europeans will survive that..

but only as poodles.

[moondust]

11. Snowy starts World War III !!!

[allin99]

40. i hope you're being sarcastic. We stopped the plane, not snowden.

[Catherina]

12. Good for them. Europe should take heed that their lackeying for the US isn't going over well

not even in their own countries.

The Organization of American States (OAS) voted en masse to condemn US/European actions in the Morales plane incident. The dissenters were the US and Canada. Even the countries currently chasing suicidal free trade, at the expense of their people, with the Pacific Alliance stood fast with President Morales. This thing isn't over by far, no matter what the neoliberals, who assured everyone that it was much ado about nothing when it first happened, say. They've been wrong for the last 20 years and that's not changing now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Mexico chose sides I see

It will be terrible for Americans but the process has started in my mind.

Someday books will be written.

[struggle4progress]

15. This is just weird

[flamingdem]

18. It's weird to see the Left lie like the right

and not be held accountable.

They should have named names. Who was the "CIA" person who called those countries. That person has never been named. I doubt they exist. What exists is confusion, that much was proven.

The Bolivians and those with a stake used confusion to build a protest and the allied countries in South America were obliged to go along.

Usually it's the Right wing using that kind of situation in an opportunistic way.

[morningfog]

25. Where is the lie, specifically?

Not knowing or not being free to name the spook who called it in is not evidence of a lie.

I ask again, show me this lie.

[flamingdem]

26. For starters that Portugal denied them airspace

That was a lie and officially addressed by their government.

[morningfog]

27. Portugal did deny them landing rights. Next?

[Quantess]

17. ...but not US ambassadors?

What am I missing here?

[Catherina]

20. It goes like this

In September 2008, Morales accused the U.S. ambassador to Bolivia, Philip Goldberg, of "conspiring against democracy" and encouraging civil unrest, and went on to order him to leave the country.[52] The U.S. government responded to Morales's action by ordering the Bolivian ambassador, Gustavo Guzman, out of their own country.[53] The following day Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez stood in solidarity with his Bolivian allies by ordering the U.S. ambassador Patrick Duddy out of his country, telling him to "go to hell 100 times" and withdrawing the Venezuelan ambassador to the U.S.[53]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales

[Quantess]

21. Oh, my. I missed that at the time.

Yikes.

[struggle4progress]

22. um .. the OP's about Argentina, Brazil, and Uruguay withdrawing their ambassadors from

Italy, France, Portugal, and Spain ...

It's weird

[reformist2]

24. Brazil taking part makes it a big deal.

[LondonReign2]

39. Goodness, seems like an overreaction given

this was all caused by a faulty fuel gauge. Or possibly outdated Moscow area roadmaps. Take your pick.