So,,,,

[Cryptoad]

there is flaw in the self defense law of FL and most other Red Moocher states. As long as you are the only witness. you can legally kill someone by claiming if was self defense. One thing the Red State Moochers do not realize is that this will apply to all. It will only be a matter of time before the thugs will figure out that they can legally kill a white rich kid, by being the only witness to the killing, and claiming their life was in danger and they had killed the rich kid in self defense. .

Only a matter of time!

Never go to Florida without a fire arm. !

[JaneyVee]

1. Over the top.

[MineralMan]

2. Woof!

That's pretty offensive, I think. Maybe you should self-delete.

[Cryptoad]

4. just

pointing out a flaw in the law.

[MineralMan]

5. You'll do what you want, I'm sure.

[Cryptoad]

7. like you say

you may not agree but it my opinion...... but am willing to consider others . !

[Gravitycollapse]

20. How many white rich kids do you suppose are killed by [black] thugs?

[Cryptoad]

23. I have no idea,,,

how about you?

[Gravitycollapse]

34. You're the one who seems to think it's a problem.

I assume you know the statistics.

[Cryptoad]

38. I told you I didn't know

those numbers. I am not concerned with those numbers ,, I am concern with the flaw in these new SD laws that allow for legal murder.

[Gravitycollapse]

39. But it's only a problem when rich white kids die, right?

That is what you're saying.

[Cryptoad]

45. No that is not what I am saying

the problem is it can happen no matter what the race of the victim is.

[Niceguy1]

42. the sd law in

Question is 40 years old and signed in to law by a dem gov.

[Cryptoad]

48. you need a better source of info

the Florida Legislature amended the self-defense laws in 2005, Florida Statutes 776.013, 776.012 (adopting the “Stand Your Ground” law written by the N.R.A., and since 2005, adopted by 30-odd other states)

[Niceguy1]

56. syg is seperate

And had nothing to do with this case

[Cryptoad]

57. the SYG is part of the SD law in FL

I just gave you the statues, and I have not been talking about the Zimmerman case

[mstinamotorcity2]

3. who are these

thugs who are out to get rich white kids??????????You full of SHIT!!!!!!!!!!

[Cryptoad]

6. So ,,,,,, you don't think

that racist thugs exist? Hate to crash you world but they are out there. I'm just pointing out how this flawed law could possible be used for legal murder.

[Egalitarian Thug]

8. You don't get it. When rich white kids are killed the police and the prosecutors

become very motivated and somebody, guilty or not, will go to jail or be executed.

Edit: Probably the first not rich, not white person they pick up.

[onenote]

9. Didn't realize Connecticut and Massachusetts, among others, were Red States

They have similar self defense laws to Florida insofar as the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not actually have a reasonable and actual belief that they faced imminent death or great bodily harm at the time they used deadly force.

And do you really think that Zimmerman is some sort of criminal genius who figured out a hole in the system that now will be copied by all the other bad guys who never figured it out before?

[Cryptoad]

11. Thats what i am saying,,,,,

its the way the Law is written it leaves open that possibility of being used by the other bad guys who can afford good lawyers......!

[azurnoir]

10. It don't work like that period

not how the mind set works "thugs" (must wonder what is meant by that word) follow "rich white kid" it's for only one purpose according to the mind set that acquitted Zimmerman and no "thug" will ever be found not guilty if the victim is white

[Cryptoad]

12. I am not so sure of that,,

now with the burden of proof of self defense entirely on the prosecution ,,,,, if the the thug ( criminal) insures that he is the only witness, any defense lawyer should be able to have the thug found not guilty ot case kicked out!

[azurnoir]

14. I am

but here and here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023255859#post8

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023256260

any questions?

[Cryptoad]

24. Thanks,,,

but neither of your links have anything to do with what I am talking about.

[azurnoir]

35. Those 2 links have everything to do with what you're 'talking about'

the first concerned a Black man who shot a white teenager who was threatening his family on his own property he's in prison, the second one was an example of far racial stereotyping, profiling, and outright bigotry go
both have everything to do with your OP

[Cryptoad]

36. No ,, maybe you should

reread what I posted. It is about a flaw in this SD Law that allows a person to legally murder someone if there are on other witnesses to the crime. You example have nothing to do with that circumstance.

[azurnoir]

43. I read what you posted

but what you're attempting to sell here is that a Black person could get away with killing a "rich white kid" in Florida if there were no witnesses, something that is laughable on it's face, and I think you know that too

[Cryptoad]

44. Yes there are parts of Florida where

it makes no difference what the law says. But not all of Florida is Gulf county. Time will tell on my prediction.

[azurnoir]

54. Time has told us

Dooley told jurors, "I decided no good can come of this, so I said in a low voice, 'Screw this, I'm going home.' I turned around and started walking back to my house."

He added emphatically, "You would be a fool to even think about starting a fight with [James.]."

But James allegedly followed after Dooley, and quickly the fight turned physical, with the two men wrestling each other to the ground. Seconds later, David James was dead, shot by the 71-year-old.

Dooley said Monday he was simply defending himself that fateful day and that David James, twice his size, was choking him. Dooley said he had no choice but to fire the gun that he had taken out of his right pocket.

Dooley told jurors, "He gave me no other choice. He was killing me. He had me by the neck. I couldn't breathe. He tried to take the gun away from me. If he took the gun away from me, what do you think he would have done with it? I had no other choice. I was on my way home. That's all I wanted to do."

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=283139


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3264623

[Cryptoad]

60. this case has a witness

who contradicted Dooley's testimony ,,,, Dooley didnt stand a chance

[azurnoir]

61. Really cite it

because according to what I posted you are 'mistaken'

[Cryptoad]

62. you should read your own links

"The teen told jurors that he did not see James get violent, only that the veteran was on top of Dooley at one point, holding his hands down. "He did not choke him," said Arthur."


http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=282747&odyssey=obinsite

[azurnoir]

66. Different link than the one I posted why do you claim it's the same one?

perhaps you need to read more closely or something

[azurnoir]

65. completely different link from the one I gave you but that you need to resort

to that sort of ummm tactic speaks volumes

[Cryptoad]

68. That link i gave is part of your link

but it makes no difference,,,,,, it cites that there were witnesses .

[azurnoir]

73. it was a different link which you attempted to present as the same one

but what it cites and the title of your link is

"Teen skateboarder says in 911 call that shooting was 'my fault!'"

but never fear I'm sure rich White kids have little to fear in Florida, so breathe easy now okay?

[lame54]

13. Except the police will actually investigate a rich white kids murder...

and gather all the evidence they can

[Cryptoad]

25. Some will some wont

[sadbear]

15. If only.

Institutional racism doesn't work that way.

[cherokeeprogressive]

16. "...the thugs will figure out that they can legally kill a white rich kid,". That's a dead giveaway.

[Quantess]

17. A dead give away that someone's got a fresh, steaming pantload?

Hmmm... could be.

[cherokeeprogressive]

22. He has <100 posts, he's worried about "thugs" killing rich white kids...

He's got a steaming pantload o' something, that's for sure.

[Cryptoad]

27. Is the Number of post on DU,,,

a sign of something?

[cherokeeprogressive]

30. Occasionally.

What's more telling though is the number of posts PLUS the notion we should be worried about rich white kids getting killed by "thugs" who think they'll get away with it.

[Cryptoad]

37. More Telling of What?

I never said you just stated . I have been talking about a flaw in this law that allows for legal murder to committed by anyone even racist thugs. You do know what a thugs is don't you ?

[kestrel91316]

31. In your case, most certainly. Enjoy your stay.

[Cryptoad]

49. YOur attitude and logic

reminds me of some the extreme Right Wingers on other sites.

I will!

[Cryptoad]

26. HuH? nt

[rrneck]

18. See that rock behind you?

Crawl back under it.

[darkangel218]

28. lol!!! nt

[Gravitycollapse]

19. Florida Stand Your Ground Law: Blacks need not apply.

I recommend you self-delete this pantload.

[Cryptoad]

29. So ,, you

think this is good Law?

[Gravitycollapse]

32. Your reading comprehension is a little off.

[stevenleser]

21. >>PLONKUS MAXIMUS<< nt

[Demo_Chris]

33. I am no Zimmerman defender, but self defense is a basic HUMAN RIGHT...

I wish people would stop with the red state blue state crap on this one. I happen to think the jury made a bad call in ignoring the many lies that Zimmerman told, but the prosecution did a poor job presenting those lies and making their case.

[Cryptoad]

40. I also believe in the right to self defense.

but that that does not make these new flawed SD laws a good thing. All of these New SD laws that I am aware on are in the Red states..... maybe they exist in other states but I have no knowledge them..... I do not agree with the jury's verdict either.... He instigated the whole thing,,,, I feel he must have some blame to burden.

[Demo_Chris]

41. Yeah, I believe Zim was a psychopath. nt

[Blackford]

46. The test fails when the defendant is black, though

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/07/15/2297541/self-defense-zimmerman/

[Cryptoad]

50. Im not saying that racism has been wiped out

your case example still had witnesses to the crime... what I said is an hypothetical example where there are no witnesses to contradict the shooter claims of Self defense.

[naaman fletcher]

47. Are the self defense laws

in non "red moocher" states any different than they are in Florida?

[Cryptoad]

51. It seems that it is mostly only the Red States

that have this flaw in their "stand your ground " laws that allows for legal murder.

[naaman fletcher]

52. Ok but this wasnt stand your ground

This was a traditional self defense claim that would have been be same in California or Mass.

[COLGATE4]

53. Florida's self defense statute is essentially the

same as 48 other states. The only exception is Ohio. You're absolutely right.
r

[Cryptoad]

58. 48 other states do not have the Stand your Ground statues in their

SD laws..... Google is your friend

[COLGATE4]

63. SYG is not the same as self defense. And SYG wasn't

alleged in this case at all. This was tried under traditional self defense statutes, which are almost identical among 49 of the 50 states (Ohio being the exception). Facts are your friends.

[Cryptoad]

70. SYG is part of SD law

SYG is added by statues to SD Law. as I have cited

My original post has nothing to do with the Zimmy Case.
My post is about the Law and its flaw.
.

[COLGATE4]

72. You do know that the law you describe as being

in effect in Fl and 'red moocher states' is also the law in every other state of the union except Ohio?

[sofa king]

55. Somehow I doubt that.

The law is designed to protect only the privileged. Rich white kids are privileged, while your hypothetical assailant is not.

This is a corrupt decision, not a functional defense for anyone but the son of a judge. Just like other important but corrupt court decisions, like Bush v. Gore, it will not be allowed as precedent in other cases, because the court system itself will recognize that it's an insider decision and not applicable to the unwashed masses.

Nevertheless, your observation is still quite valid: murdering your adversary and telling authorities the story that best defends yourself is potentially an effective legal tactic... if you have an ace in the hole.

But if you're a minority or poor, it ain't gonna work for you.

It amuses me that one of my favorite bands as a kid, Scream, foretold all of this in a concise double-song during the Reagan era:

They’re never wrong, only mistaken
It don’t replace your rights that have been taken
They throw the book away, you’ve been forsaken
For American justice has just been faking

If you got no money then you’re just out of luck
‘Cause the lawyers and legal aid, they just don’t give a fuck
That’s why the jails are full of the poor and black
And once they get out, you know they end up just going back

[Cryptoad]

59. Yes the poor are up Chit Creek

but i am talking about professional thugs who are far from being poor. many with lawyer on retainers.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

64. Never go to Florida. PERIOD!! :(

[Boom Sound 416]

67. BTW

Because you are probably too young to vote and haven't left your room yet, the red moocher state went blue the last presidential election.

And while your "flaw" is a stroke of zen enlightenment, Florida vs Zimmerman had plenty of witnesses.

[Cryptoad]

69. You are the one that brings up the Zimmy case

My post has nothing to do that case.

Whoever sold you your Seer license, Hoo-Dooed you .

Im 65 and have voted in ever election that I was in country.

I never mentioned Florida in my orginal post.

but yes FL was a Red Moocher state when it added the SYG statues to its
SD law

Most State that have added SYG statues are Red Moocher States

[Boom Sound 416]

71. You mention Fl

In the first sentence of this OP

And

If you want me to believe or anyone to believe you mentioned self defense by coincidence two days after the verdict and while DU is blowing up, please...