What does the average Floridian, who would be punished by a boycott, have to do with the Zimmerman?

[Kurska]

I honestly can't believe that people are advocating boycotting Florida. The duly elected Florida government brought the case against Zimmerman, which is all they reasonably could have done. You're seriously going to tell me some orange farmer or Disneyworld employee deserves to be punished because of what Zimmerman and some jurors decided to do?

As a Floridian, I don't understand what I personally did to "deserve" this boycott. I'm sorry a Jury 3 hours drive south of me made a decision you don't like, please by all means hurt my local economy. I guess I'll try harder next time.

Florida has been blue for 2 elections in a row, clearly we're not all bad. I do know that any real and effective boycott would be perceived as left-wing and certainly take Florida out of our column. So double good job on that front.

Can you say president Marco Rubio? I certainly don't want to.

[EOTE]

1. The average Floridian elects the assholes who make sure that this kind of stuff is likely to happen.

Pretty much all boycotts hurt innocents, that really can't be avoided. However, people would do well by making sure that states that foster and protect murderous assholes like Zimmerman don't get rewarded financially for it.

[enki23]

3. Sucks to live among pieces of shit, but you can't be their human fucking shield in all things.

.

[EOTE]

5. That's why I choose to live and spend my money as far away from those pieces of shit as possible. nt

[CatWoman]

135. Hi Enki!!!!

so sad and strange to meet again this way

[enki23]

231. Hey Cat. I've seen you around. Posted in your previous sad thread, before the verdict came back.

Some sick assholes in this world. The biggest travesty is when those assholes get to make the rules. But hell, hello to you too. Hope you're holding up well.

[Kurska]

4. As much as a tool as Rick Scott is, he stepped in to ensure the prosecution of Zimmerman.

As far as I can tell, the government of Florida did what it could.

[EOTE]

8. And what of those legislators who passed laws making his acquittal so easy? nt

[Kurska]

17. What law are you refrencing?

It wasn't a stand your ground case. I'm fairly sure the law Zimmerman was acquitted under would be the same just about anywhere in America.

[EOTE]

29. Here's a good rundown of them.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-case-the-five-principles-of-the-law-of-self-defense/

And they're not the same anywhere in America. Every state has fairly specific wording for its self-defense laws. Shit like this is par for the course in Florida.

[Kurska]

43. You still haven't explained what exactly about Florida self-defence law needs to be changed.

That is what I'm waiting on. A list of other states you're planning to boycott as well for similar laws would also be ncie.

[EOTE]

49. How about the fact that the jurors were instructed to disregard EVERYTHING that led up to the

confrontation? So that it didn't matter what the fuck Zimmerman did to put himself in the situation, the few seconds prior to murdering Trayvon was all they were to consider. THAT is ridiculously fucked up. Florida needs to get its shit in order. Pretty much all they do suggests that they consider minorities second class citizens or worse. Purge 10s of thousands of African Americans from voter rolls? Check! Lock up minorities for defending themselves while letting those who murder minorities off free? Check! I'll choose to spend my money in states that live in the 21st century, not the 18th, thanks.

[DirkGently]

61. Show us the more enlightened law that should have been used.

The self-defense statute dates to the 1970s. It IS similar to the laws in other states.

You do not know of what you speak.

[EOTE]

67. Zimmermans get off all the time in Florida and Texas.

Not so much in other states. There are states where vigilantes go unpunished all the time. They're welcome to join the rest of civilized America at any time. The 21st century is waiting for them.

[DirkGently]

69. I see. So you just generally hate certain states, and want them to suffer?

What sense does that make, and how does that effect change, exactly?

You know that poorer states are generally redder states, and that Florida's more tourist-driven communities are the bluer ones.

Please explain how attacking Florida in general will affect whatever it is you think is to blame for a jury verdict you deem unacceptable.

[EOTE]

73. New to reading, are you?

Perhaps if you slow down, you might have better luck. The Zimmerman case isn't the sole illustration of what's fucked up about Florida, but it is a pretty good one. And you may think that me not giving you money is the same as attacking you, but that's really fucking stupid. I give my money to states that don't foster more Zimmermans. In fact, I'll give the biggest portion of my money to states that go out of their way to make sure that Zimmermans never get a gun in the first place, and lock them up when they go psycho vigilante. Florida is a very, very bad place to be a minority. I'm not going to reward them for that.

[DirkGently]

91. So, you have no answer on the Zimmerman thing?

[EOTE]

101. So, it's a complete inability to read rather than just a partial thing? nt

[DirkGently]

104. I read you loud and clear: You're running from your own argument.

You're in a thread about the Zimmerman case, scooting away from the Zimmerman case as fast as you can, because you can't back up your own nonsense. The law is the law. The self-defense statute dates from the 1970s, and is similar to other states. There is no "Florida is terrible" connection to be made, period.

[EOTE]

110. The fact that the law is from the 1970s makes it no less abhorrent.

And no states excuse the murders of the 'right' kind of people more than Texas and Florida. Other states seem to manage to handle their Zimmermans. Or are you suggesting that it's only because of Florida's racist jurors that Zimmerman walked rather than its racist laws? Either way, you're not helping your case very much.

[DirkGently]

114. What's the law in your state? Or are you still dodging that question?

Nothing racist about the law here. It's a normal self-defense statute like those of most states. The fact that a result occurred which you do not like does not render the law or the jury racists, or Florida some kind of awful state.

SYG is a separate issue. That's a bad law that's passing in many states. An intelligent person might focus on something like that, rather than wildly swinging at an entire state full of people who elected Barack Obama a couple of times.

[EOTE]

123. My state doesn't have an issue with racist vigilante assholes like Zimmerman.

So whether it be due to law or the fact that our juries don't solely consist of racist assholes, we somehow manage to put obvious murderers in jail. SYG wasn't used by the defense, that didn't stop Zimmerman from walking. And the fact that Florida voted for (not elected) Obama doesn't mean a whole lot. We're all kind of still smarting from 2000. Listen, if you want people to avoid a boycott of Florida, you do YOUR best to make it a better state. Decent people sure as hell aren't going to go out of their way to support a state that doesn't give a flying fuck about the lives of minorities.

[DirkGently]

127. So, you admit your law is the same, & just claim superiority based on nothing.

Got it.

[EOTE]

134. Again with that reading thing? Having a hard time are ya?

I said nothing of the sort. I explained what's so fucked up about Florida's law. You're just going around repeating baseless, idiotic assertions that Florida's law is the same as everyone else's. Don't go around insulting every other state out there just because yours can't manage to join the 21st century. Hell, most of us would even settle for the 19th. But so long as Florida so obviously has two legal systems, don't expect decent people to want to support it. There are far too many decent states out there for me to do anything to benefit one that clearly wants nothing to do with decency.

[DirkGently]

139. No, you didn't explain. You changed the subject. Time and again.

Post your state's law. We'll compare them. I can help you here.

[EOTE]

147. Here you go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_self-defense_in_Maryland

Not to mention the fact that psychos like Zimmerman wouldn't be allowed on a neighborhood watch and probably wouldn't be able to own a gun here, he certainly wouldn't have gotten off. But you go on thinking that other states share Florida's coddling of psychopaths.

[DirkGently]

151. It's the same law, you mean. So you're grasping at other reasons?

I don't think Zimmerman was really in the neighborhood watch, was he? He was not working under any of those duties, at any rate.

Now, *having a gun* is a real issue. THAT is the problem with the entire case as I see it. Some of the people who wish to walk around armed seem to want to "play cop" and pretend to have authority, comforted in knowing that should they become afraid, they can kill instantly and no one will be around to dispute their story. That is a problem. So is Stand Your Ground, an ALEC initiative taking root in many states.


But it is hardly a condemnation of the state of Florida in general. That is a gun rights issue, and it is a matter of national concern, not proof that the state of Florida is some particularly bad jurisdiction. Nor was the jury racist or stupid or any of that.

Here's the Florida self-defense statutes. Same principles.

776.012?Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1)?He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2)?Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27.

[EOTE]

156. Nope, not the same law.

Did you read anything about the duty to retreat? Not the same law at all.

Also, what you seem to be suggesting is that Florida's LAWS aren't racist or bad, just its people. That's really not helping your case. And again, in my state, Zimmerman would very likely not be able to own a gun, he very likely would not be part of a neighborhood watch and he sure as fuck wouldn't have gotten away with murder.

[DirkGently]

171. We have duty to retreat as well. Did YOU read?

Stand Your Ground is the new exception. Not used in this case.

So, having failed to show racism in the law, your new position is just that Floridians are racist, because in your legal opinion, which cannot successfully compare two similar self-defense statutes, Zimmerman would have been convicted, if the entire state wasn't racist?

Interesting logic. Not like our Earth logic, but interesting!

[EOTE]

177. Zimmerman initially wasn't even CHARGED due to SYG.

And the farce of a trial he went through doesn't change the fact that Florida has a HUGE issue with defending murders for which there is ZERO defense. If the Zimmerman trial isn't enough to disgust you, how about the guy who shot two people over a boating violation or the guy who killed a man who was swimming away after a fist fight? Or how about an actual legitimate claim of SYG such as Marissa Alexander? Florida made sure that she'd pay with her freedom for firing warning shots for her abusive husband whom she had a protective order against. Funny how Florida doesn't seem to give such a fuck about defense when it's a minority exerting that defense. Face it, you live in a fucked up state. You're welcome to try and make it better, but don't expect decent people in other states to prop up your state until it shows that it gives a fuck about minorities. There are plenty of other non-evil states we can support.

[DirkGently]

180. But he was charged. The case didn't turn on SYG

So, again, you've got nothing.

As for Marissa Alexander, she shot through a wall toward her husband and children. The husband, who *was* an abuser, was in the process of fleeing himself when she went to the glovebox, pulled a gun, and said "I've got something for your ass." The back door, away from the action, was unobstructed. She's tried to say she shot at the ceiling, but the hole is in the wall at adult head level. That is a crime, called using a firearm in the commission of an assault. They offered her 3 yrs; she rolled the dice. Her kids didn't back the "warning shot" story apparently.

As for who's propping who up, Maryland's a much poorer state, with something like -$3,000 per person in federal taxes.

Unlike you, I'd like to see them helped with that, rather than being a geographical bigot and shrieking racism at everyone.

[EOTE]

192. Bullshit, the only reason he received a farce of a trial to begin with was the public outcry.

Most of which came from OUTSIDE of your sad, racist state. If it were up to Floridians, Zimmerman wouldn't have even gone through the inconvenience of a trial. It's only when shit like this makes national news that Florida even starts to give a fuck. And why is it not surprising you'd attack a victimized woman for standing her ground AND you'd defend that murderous fuck Zimmerman.

And you seem extremely confused about who is propping up whom. Maryland is a DONOR state, Florida is a welfare state. For every dollar that Maryland spends in taxes, it gets back ~79 cents in Federal aid. For every dollar that Florida spends in taxes, it gets about $1.40 in Federal aid. If states actually got back from the government what they put in, Florida would be fucked. But states like Maryland try not to mind so much propping up states like yours. That doesn't mean that residents of civilized states want to prop up states like Florida any more.

[DirkGently]

197. No. Florida's a sometime donor. Maryland's far in the red.

One of the worst, in fact. No. 37 overall. But I don't take that to mean anything, because I'm not a weirdo who thinks states are people or sports teams or something that can be proven "better" or something. But still, check it out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state

37 Maryland $53,705 5,618,344 $9,559 $70,617 $12,569 $-3,010

I do not defend the murderous fuck Zimmerman, as you so educatedly put it. He's a bad guy and a liar, and he caused the death of an innocent.

But I do understand the law, and the evidence presented. The shame of the situation is that when one person has a gun and can kill in an instant, you're left with one living witness and a dead person who can't tell their own story.

But that's not OMG Florida's So Racist! And it's not because there's something wrong with the perfectly standard self-defense statute.

There's an argument people shouldn't walk around with guns. There's another argument that if they do, we should incorporate something in the law that saddles them with a higher burden for proving self-defense.

As it stands, however, there was not a murder case against Zimmerman. The shot went up, he had injuries. No one could competently testify to the contrary. And the law -- no law, not just Florida's -- does not have a provision incorporating whether the person who kicked the whole thing off was in the wrong IF they can suggest that at the end, they were in fear for their lives.

My actual speculation is that Zimmerman was on the ground, getting a mild beating, when the gun came into view. What could he do then? What would Martin have done? Someone's going to grab it, and someone's going to get shot.

I think Zimmerman lied a lot. Lied about a hole in the fence. Lied about Martin saying a lot of silly movie-talk nonsense about "You're going to die." I don't think he was being beaten to death. I think he wrote a check his behind could not cash, and found himself on the wrong end of a fight with no idea what to do.

But we don't know. There was never a competent narrative that made it murder. Manslaughter -- sure, maybe, but the prosecution ignored that for the most part. They overcharged and lost. That's the way the law works, and it is designed to work injustice on the side of letting someone go free.

Your sputtering nonsense about the horrors of Florida would have happened in your state. In any state, given these facts and this evidence. Suck? Yes. But you're missing the point as to why by a country mile.

[EOTE]

216. So much ignorance, where to begin.

Again, you can't comprehend something as simple as the donor/welfare status of the state. What you're showing is the net distribution per person. That has NOTHING to do with whether or not a state takes in more than it gives out in taxes. Again, Maryland gets about 80 cents back for every dollar it spends while Florida geta $1.40 . States like Florida would be fucked if it weren't for more fiscally responsible states.

And that's all just a distraction from what my original point was and that's that states like yours (it used to be mine as well), need to have some sort of incentive to be decent. Boycotts are all about voting with your dollars. Bullshit like the Zimmerman trial is going to make a whole hell of a lot of people spend their money anywhere other than Florida. You arguing against that is just denying reality. It's the refusal of Floridians to recognize that that has increasingly led the state to be the laughing stock of the country.

[DirkGently]

225. Actually, I'm right. And you're still wrong. Again.

DONOR STATE: The Sunshine State pays more in federal taxes than it receives in federal grants for local and state governments.

Consider: Florida received $22.7 billion — 4.1 percent of total federal grants — based on 2009 data, according to a report in the Gainesville Sun. But state residents paid $110 billion in federal taxes — about 4.7 percent of the combined total for all states.

Bottom line? Florida ranked 48th out of 50 states in the federal grants it receives per capita. This makes us a "donor state," sending more money to the federal government than we get in return.[/div class="excerpt"]
http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2012/oct/20/thumb-down-florida-is-donor-state-with-respect/

So, no Florida is not "fucked" without the great state of Maryland.

Starting to look like we export our idiots there, though.

[EOTE]

256. Your information is laughably wrong.

It shows Florida receiving about 20% of what it puts in, no state is that low. It looks like the Gainesville Times could use a few lessons in both fact checking and math. Maryland is consistently a donor state, and Florida is almost always a welfare state, aside from select times when idiot republicans turn down Federal aid to make democrats look bad. The per capita rate of federal spending is meaningless, a donor state is one that pays out more in taxes than it receives in federal spending. Period.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/02/is-your-state-a-net-giver-or-taker-of-federal-taxes/

[DonCoquixote]

247. and this Hispanic is telling you

that you will hurt the minorities that have been standing in line eight hours to vote to turn this damn state Blue!

[EOTE]

262. And I'll also be helping minorities in other states, so perhaps it's a wash?

And then when you consider that a boycott might actually encourage Florida to change for the better, it seems more than a wash.

[DonCoquixote]

242. some of us vote Democrat

as the e;lections of 2008 and 2012 show, or does that fact not matter?

We are trying to change this state, but you will only help the people who want to keep things as they are with a boycott.

Plus, your tone of "join the 21st century" is nasty, some of us have been doing it for years, but we cannot just go ahead and murder every GOP in the state (though we feel like it sometimes), or move, because we are too poor to do so.

[EOTE]

259. I feel for those who are unable to move.

I was lucky enough to be able to do so. But I don't see why that means I should spend my money in places that insult my values so much.

[OregonBlue]

94. Exactly, a man beats his wife half to death for years on end and then one time he actually

kills her. The jury is to disregard everything that led up to that death?

[Travis_0004]

65. I agree with every one of those

Innocence—Aggressors Need Not Apply
Imminence—Right NOW!
Proportionality—The “Goldilocks” Principle (Just Right)
Avoidance—A Duty to Retreat as Long as Safely Possible
Reasonableness—Meet the “Reasonable and Prudent Man”

[notadmblnd]

34. Under threat of the Justice Department

No one was going to prosecute Zimmerman if the DOJ hadn't opened an investigation to civil rights violations. So don't even say that pos gov of yours did the right thing.

[Generic Other]

42. By appointing the prosecutor with the highest rate of overcharging in the state

knowing she'd likely go for an unsupportable charge and lose the case. That's the accusation I heard on CNN.

[dgibby]

112. I agree. The SAME POS prosecutor

that oversaw the prosecution of a battered wife with an order of protection against her abuser, and saw to it that the woman got 20 years of hard time in prison because she fired a warning shot into the ceiling to keep from getting beaten again. If that was a white woman, I seriously doubt she'd have been charged, much less convicted.

The Trayvon Martin Case was a sham from the git go. No one wanted to charge Zimmerman, much less take him to trial, so what better way to ensure his acquittal than by overcharging him & preventing the prosecution from using race as a mittigating factor.

I was stationed in Fla. back in the '70's when I was in the Navy, and you couldn't drag me back there with a team of wild horses.

[stranger81]

278. The same prosecutor???

BDLR? Jiminy Christmas.

[KeepItReal]

109. and appointed a state attorney with her own dubious record on civil rights

Look up Angela Corey

[NaturalHigh]

15. That almost sounds lie a "collateral damage" argument.

Of course innocents will suffer, but it can't be avoided.

[EOTE]

23. So you think that no one should ever boycott anything?

That is utterly idiotic. And utterly non-surprising coming from a Zimmerman supporter.

[NaturalHigh]

30. I'm not too worried about it one way or the other.

Most of the people swearing they will never go to Florida weren't going in the first place. That's the way most boycotts work.

[EOTE]

35. I spent 8 years in Florida and still have a number of friends and family there.

They're mostly good people and I hate to see them suffer. But they should damn well get out of the state if they're concerned a boycott will hurt them. Where you spend your money actually makes a difference. Florida needs to do something about the backwood fucks making the state an awful place to live, especially for minorities. If they don't, they have no one to blame but themselves.

[Arcanetrance]

263. The statement you make about decent people needing to leave Florida

I see that statement around here when the subject of blue voters living in red states comes up. Someone inevitably says well why don't they leave. Has it ever occurred to anyone many of them couldn't afford to up and move to a more blue state. Instead of piling on decent people how about we try and help them change those states. From the looks of it the idea is slowly working in Florida having gone blue in the last couple presidential elections.

[EOTE]

264. I understand that not everybody has that option.

I certainly couldn't pack up and leave now, I'm very fortunate I'm in a state I don't feel the need to leave. I appreciate what progressives in Florida are doing to make the state a better place, but I can't in good conscious continue to support a state that goes against so many of my values.

[Arcanetrance]

265. And that's your prerogative I won't judge you for your opinion

Personally I am going to Florida in a few days my grandmother is very ill and this may be the last time I will get to see her.

[DirkGently]

62. You boycott an entity with a policy it can change on that basis.

You can't make Florida a more progressive state by attempting to punish it generally. That's just stupid.

[EOTE]

100. Sure you can. It's already been done.

Racist southern states have already experienced boycotts for proudly displaying confederate flags. It turns out that some of them love money more than they hate minorities. Believe it or not, people CAN be incentivized. As much as you'd like it to be the case, I and many others won't continue to support such racism and oppression. You can say that it won't make a bit of difference, but I'll continue to financially support states who actually give a damn about ALL of its citizens.

[DirkGently]

103. Not the way you're talking about it. No one will change the Zimmerman verdict

based on a drop in tourism. That's simply insane. And, I know, you hate everything about Florida, and everything in it, and run from the issue that the Zimmerman verdict would've happened in your state too.

But that just makes it worse. You don't even have an issue, outside of your childish hatred.

How do you proposed "Florida" would respond to a supposed general boycott? What, tourism drops, and Republicans suddenly stop doing stupid things, like they're doing in Michigan? North Carolina? Wisconsin? Ohio? Virginia? Indiana?

You want change, work to get progressives elected. Moaning that you just hate a geographical area and want it to do badly is impotent nonsense.

[EOTE]

108. No one expects the verdict to be changed.

There are many who will stop financially supporting the backward state that makes verdicts like the Zimmerman case FAR too frequently. Decent people boycott racist states all the time. Florida is no different in that regard. If they want people to stop thinking of Florida as a racist hell hole where minorities are murdered with reckless abandon, perhaps Florida should stop being a racist hell hole where minorities are murdered with reckless abandon.

[DirkGently]

113. By that rationale, poorer states should be less racist.

... and yet it doesn't work that way. Florida has grown bluer as its fortunes have improved.

There is no logic in your logic. You just have some childish need to pretend that states are people you can beat into submission, or something.

Your impotent rage is noted.

Meanwhile, people with shreds of intelligence and reason continue to work to improve things, in all of the various states, with all of their various problems. I will help Texas stand for women's rights. I will oppose Virginia's transvaginal ultrasounds. I will oppose Michigan's Emergency Manager law. I will oppose union smashing in Wisconsin and Indiana and Ohio.

I will oppose California's passage of Prop-8.

You will snarl on the internet about how you are the arbiter of which states you will punish and somehow bring to heel through an irrational call for a "boycott" that will neither materialize, nor function, nor demonstrate anything of any value to anyone.

Good luck with that.

[EOTE]

117. You know nothing of logic.

You seem to understand that bluer states do better economically, yet it utterly befuddles you that states might want to uhhh, actually do better economically. You don't see how showing a state that it's right wing policies lead to financial ruin does any good? If you're a shining example of Floridian logic, I'm afraid your state doesn't have much luck. At least the rest of the country won't be dragged down with you.

[DirkGently]

125. Explain how you make Florida bluer with a boycott.

I mean, given you won't defend your original claim that it was all about our standard, long-standing self-defense statute, take us through the process.

Someone, somewhere, buys into your boycott idea. Florida's fortunes fall. And ... progressives win?

Florida's fortunes have been up and down. The trend has been that it's turning bluer as it is. If you and your band of ... basically no one, but set that aside, somehow strangled all of the economic life out the state, how do you get to the conclusion that suddenly Florida voters will do something better on that basis?

I've seen what wreaks change in Florida, and it isn't cranks on the Internet threatening to cancel their fishing trip. It's cramped, sweaty rooms full of hardworking progressives scrounging for resources, calling out Republicans and conservatives, getting their voices heard.

[EOTE]

129. I'm beginning to think there's no way I could explain this in simple enough of a manner.

Even the most self-apparent truths seem to elude you. You are aware that most boycotted companies, states, what have you KNOW the reason they're being boycotted, right? In this case, Florida would be boycotted for appealing to and protecting racist psychopaths so much. If they wanted to avoid economic catastrophe, they could maybe NOT go out of their way to appeal to and protect racist assholes? I know this is incredibly confusing and will take you some time to take in, but there it is. But what do I know? I'm just the only person on the internet who's pissed off at Florida now and intends to do something about it.

[DirkGently]

132. So, Florida, as a whole, will 1) Notice your boycott, & 2) Become less

generally "racist" as a result?

So, like, a charter boat captain or a grocery store owner will hear that tourism has dropped, decide it's because EOTE of DU is mad about racism, will become fearful of EOTE's wrath, and decide to start thinking more progressively in hope of appeasing EOTE?

I don't use those rolling, laughing emoticons much. But feel free to imagine some here.

[EOTE]

137. You seem awfully concerned with my one man boycott.

So very upset that my not vacationing in Florida a year or two from now will effect your economy. I don't expect Florida to become less racist, Florida and racism goes together like peanut butter and chocolate. They can revel in it if they want to, but you really shouldn't wonder when your state is considered the laughing stock of the nation.

[DonCoquixote]

238. what dpo you say to those

that kept Florida blue, and stood in election lines, I guess they do not matter.

[DonCoquixote]

252. Blue states

like the ones that went blue in 2008 and 2012, thanks to liberals like me that busted their hump. Tell me, what would you say to those Liberals who are in Florida, who have been fearing police, go to hell?

[EOTE]

258. I'd say "good luck".

And I'm glad it's you busting your hump and not me. And then I'd go back to being happy living in a state where I don't need to worry about busting my hump to keep it blue.

[cthulu2016]

31. Was everyone harmed by the civil rights bus boycott guilty?

Was everyone harmed by Gandhi's boycotts guilty?

Was every British textile worker a racist fat-cat?

When has there EVER been a boycott without collateral damage?

[EOTE]

37. Shhhh, you're messing up his opportunity to defend his hero.

Someday, he too may get the opportunity to save the community from some minority who's clearly up to no good.

[DirkGently]

66. You need a target and an issue? What would they be here?

The entire state of Florida should somehow change so that Zimmerman would be convicted? How would that work?

You yourself don't think the law or facts permitted conviction, if I recall.

Boycotting a bus system that discriminates racially is nothing even vaguely similar to the infantile rants here about boycotting "Florida." In the first case, one entity can be targeted, and can change one policy.

What is going to connect a drop in tourism to making it less likely a future Zimmerman gets acquitted?

[onenote]

150. The Montgomery Bus Boycott was targeted

It didn't involve boycotting the entire state. It was directed at the bus company. The economic distress it caused the bus company didn't harm African Americans because the bus company had segregated hiring practices as well. It didn't exactly change attitudes in Alabama -- if anything there was an uptick in violence against African Americans during the boycott. And in the end, it was the Supreme Court declaring segregation on the buses unconstitutional that ended the practice (and the boycott).

Calling for a statewide boycott based on this case, which involved the application of a self defense law that is comparable to the laws of many states, including northern "blue" states is overbroad imo.

[ellenfl]

41. since florida has been subject to voter suppression for the last several election

cycles, you should be grateful that this 'average floridian' and many others helped to elect president obama. we will continue to work on state and local elections but the takeover of state governments by repubs was a full scale attack and largely unforeseen by most. i don't know how many more pro-business/anti-citizen policies the state legislature and governor have to enact to get the general public's attention. hopefully 2014 will take us from magenta to blue violet.

what blue state are you from?

p.s. we voted al gore in as well but that same repub state government screwed us too.

[EOTE]

51. I'm from a number of blue states, California originally.

And I appreciate the work progressives have done to make the state a bit less fucked up. However, I won't reward states like Florida for shit like this. If they begin to feel a financial pinch, just maybe less people in Florida will be tolerant of this kind of stuff.

[ellenfl]

58. thank you for advocating that our service economy take a hit for this verdict.

i'm sure the people making $2.13/hr, many of whom have a harder time getting to vote, considering the long lines at the polling stations, appreciate your stand against them.

in spite of governor voldemort's protestations to the contrary, our job prospects have not improved. more people may be working but for less money and less job security.

[EOTE]

64. You're very welcome.

I suppose we should support a state regardless of the decency of its laws, right? No incentive should be given to Florida to... I don't know... maybe not be quite so fucked up?

Why do YOU want to hurt the service economies of the states who aren't so fucked up? You want to funnel money away from decent states who don't give us endless Casey Anthonys and George Zimmermans and transfer it to Florida. Frankly, I have no qualms about only supporting states where gun nuts and racists can't murder with abandon.

[ellenfl]

116. where do i say that i want to hurt other economies? no one's asking you to support

florida. what did we do to you? do you think i like this verdict? i don't like texas killing inmates either but i don't call for a boycott.

[EOTE]

120. You want the rest of us to divert our money to Florida rather than states

who don't ensure that racist assholes get away with murder. If I have a choice of supporting a state where murderers regularly get away if their victim has the right skin color or a state that values all of its people, its an absolute no brainer.

[ellenfl]

160. i never asked you to 'divert' your money anywhere! what money are you spending

in florida now, pray tell?

[EOTE]

164. Now? Nothing.

I did spend a week there in 2011 with my family. And I tended to go every few years to see friends and family. That won't be happening again for quite some time, perhaps the remainder of my life. We'll see.

[ellenfl]

169. so where did i ask u to 'divert' your money here? eom

[EOTE]

173. You chastised me for suggesting that Florida's "service economy" be harmed.

Apparently not recognizing that by requesting that I change MY spending habits and ignoring a Florida boycott that the other states that my money would go to (states that don't do their damnedest to protect vicious psychopaths, mind you) would suffer financially. You see, every time a person makes a decision about which state to spend their money in, some states win and others lose. I want Florida to be the loser here while other decent states should be the winners. Maybe when Florida is tired of being the loser, they just might change things for the better.

[ellenfl]

204. i never asked u to change ur spending habits. in fact, i asked u not to. btw, what

decent states would those be and what makes them so decent?

are u going to get ur family to quit spending their $ here too?

[EOTE]

220. I'll spend my money in those decent states (the coasts and parts of the midwest as of now).

I know there are plenty of good people who live in those not-so-decent states, but I'll leave it to them to make their states better. I'm not going to have miserable vacations just so I can support people who choose to remain in states with shitty civil rights records. Eventually those states will get the message.

[ellenfl]

236. u mean like california's civil rights record? eom

[DirkGently]

68. How do you propose that message would be communicated?

So, you envision what, exactly?


Step 1. Tourism plummets,

Step 2: Florida becomes a poorer state,

Step 3: Voters decide it's because of the Zimmerman verdict

Step 4: ??????????????

[EOTE]

71. Step 4: They either do something about it or continue to suffer.

Florida has led the country in fucked up shit for quite some time. They can start prioritizing with their law enforcement and stop protecting their murderers and maybe start protecting the people who are ACTUALLY trying to defend their lives. If they choose not to, they can continue to suffer. It sucks that people have to suffer by living in a really shitty state that doesn't care about its people, but don't expect me to supplement their income out of a sense of duty. There are plenty of actual decent states that truly deserve my support.

[DirkGently]

72. That's just stupid. Republicans don't care about your "support."

Conservatives in Florida fear LIBERALS in Florida. If you really wanted something to change, instead of slinging your impotent bile on the internet, you'd dig in and support some worthy causes down here.

[EOTE]

76. Liberals in Florida are welcome to make their state a better place or to move.

In the mean time, I'm going to make the country a better one by supporting states which demonstrate at least a shred of decency. I won't be held hostage with this "Every state is equally deserving of financial support!" bullshit.

[DirkGently]

89. Attributing a verdict you don't like to a state doesn't "make

things better." It's just illogical tantrum throwing.

If you actually want to improve things, you'd quit shouting nonsense and support the people working for change. Like the ones here that got the state to elect Obama, twice.

[EOTE]

142. You act like this is the first time Florida is associated with something utterly boneheaded or

racist. If that were the case, I'd understand your frustration. But this shit seems to happen as the norm in your fair state. I lived there for 8 years, couldn't wait to get the fuck out. You're welcome to do the same or to try and make it a better place. But don't expect progressives elsewhere to want to prop up this racist, backward state.

[DirkGently]

213. Well we certainly don't need your help. We like smart people here.

Florida progressives suport Dems and blue causes all over the country. We've got Maryland's back. You go ahead and try to stab ours.

Let me know how that works out for you.

[EOTE]

217. Yeah, I'll just bow down to the collective intelligence of America's wang.

Get back to me when you guys can go more than a couple days without locking up minorities for non-crimes or acquitting or not even charging those who kill minorities. Yeah, Florida is just a hot-bed of intellectualism.

[DirkGently]

223. Hey now. We all saw The Wire. Murderland's no picnic, sweetheart.

You are hilarious. Do you have big foam finger with your state on it?

[DonCoquixote]

240. what the hell do you think we are doing?

The tooth fairy did not vote for Obama in the past two elections. We did it despite pressure, and little help from people like you who were safe in the blue states.

[DonCoquixote]

248. and those of us too poor to move

will you help with the moving expenses?

[pipi_k]

88. But what do

they DO about it?

George Zimmerman eventually got charged with a crime.

He had a trial.

The prosecution tried its best to influence the all-female jury with pleas to emotion.

The jury heard the evidence and made a decision lots of people don't like.

Again...what are they going to DO about that?

[EOTE]

145. They could have charged him immediately.

Not giving him a few months to settle. They could have provided better prosecution as they should have done with Casey Anthony as well. They could have better written legislation to make sure that vigilante assholes like Zimmerman can't get away with murder and, barring all that, maybe not have it so that 6 people selected for the jury wouldn't be so likely to be so racist and/or stupid that they let this fucker go. Regardless, there are plenty of states that don't have a problem with fucks like Zimmerman. Those will be the states I support.

[Niceguy1]

174. do you have evidence to support

Your claims of racism against the jury?

[EOTE]

179. I'm saying that either the law is very racist or the jurors are.

Because non-racists don't go about acquitting people who stalked a teenager with a gun, got into a confrontation with them and murdered said teenager when it was clear they couldn't win in a fair fight. If anyone was standing his ground, it was Trayvon. That those 6 idiots didn't even convict Zimmerman of manslaughter is pretty damned good proof that they're racists and/or idiots. Again, it's either the laws or the jurors that are racist as civilized states don't have a huge epidemic of people getting away with clear cut murder. I'm inclined to believe that it's quite a bit of both.

[Niceguy1]

181. the problem

Is the lack of evidence. And the fact that travon was on top when the shot was fired. People are expecting a conviction based on emotions not actual evidence. ..

[EOTE]

186. It is not a fact that Trayvon was on top.

That's more shit that Zimmerman said that his followers take as gospel truth. Trayvon had every right to defend himself against the psychopath who would minutes later take his life. Trayvon was standing his ground against a vicious murderer. There was no way that Trayvon could have escaped with his life. Sickening.

[Niceguy1]

190. the jury has to use evidence

Not emotion. And unfortunately in this case there are more emotions than evidence.

[EOTE]

193. You said that was a fact, it was nothing of the sort.

If the jury uses "evidence" as loosely as you do, it's no wonder that Zimmerman got off.

[Niceguy1]

194. i wish there

Was enough evidence to support a conviction but there wasn't. It was little more than he said/she said.

[EOTE]

196. You, like many other defenders of Zimmerman, don't deal with evidence or facts.

There was plenty of evidence to prove that Zimmerman murdered Martin beyond a reasonable doubt. It's only when the defense gets into ridiculous logical contortions like: "Perhaps Zimmerman temporarily grew a third arm." that his version of events makes any sense. And beside, Zimmerman was proven to be a complete and total liar before the trial even began. That his words carried any weight was ridiculous. Zimmerman is a free man because of a travesty of justice, not because the evidence wasn't there.

[lumpy]

275. Not a fact Martin was on top. Two eye witnesses testified that it had to be Zimmerman on top.

The prosecution appeared to discount those witnesses. Relied on Zimmermans ex- neighbor who just happened to know Zimmerman.

[RandySF]

53. +100

[leftyohiolib]

59. exactly - why would i want to put money into the hands of people who would turn it over to repub pol

[pipi_k]

74. Ahhhh...

I just love the smell of "collateral damage" in the morning!

Said sarcastically, of course.

So, my 79 year old mom, who lives in Florida and always votes Democrat, deserves to be punished by proxy?

sigh...

[EOTE]

79. Ahhhh... so you believe that there's never a good reason for a boycott?

Hardly a progressive position if you ask me. Your 79 year old mom is welcome to try and make Florida less of a racist hell hole where minorities are fair game for murder. Or, she's also welcome to move. I'm not likely to provide any financial support to states that share so little of my values. Plenty of decent states in this country that I can support in good conscience.

[pipi_k]

96. As someone above said...

you boycott entities that have the ability to change their policies.

You don't boycott a state in order to change its laws.

And I'm thinking a rational person doesn't boycott a state because six jurors came back with a verdict nobody likes.

Anyway, in spite of the fact that some believe a pissant little boycott by a bunch of DUers is going to bankrupt Florida, I doubt very much it will happen. If people want to do it to make themselves feel better, then by all means, go for it. But to do it in an attempt to change the laws? Waste of time, as far as I'm concerned.

BTW... what about the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico a few years ago? People came out in droves to insist they would boycott BP. How's BP doing these days? Yeah, that boycott really hurt them...

In the end, it helps to know what battles one is likely to win. Otherwise, it's a lot of wheel spinning and waste of time and energy.

[EOTE]

102. Ahhh, so Florida is doomed to be a place where minorities can be killed with impunity.

And because they are completely unable to actually change their racist ways, we should continue to support them because... uhhh, what was that reason again? It's fucking ludicrous to suggest that states can't change. They have and they'll continue to do so. And it's the people who refuse to support those states' awful behavior that causes that change. And because one boycott didn't do much doesn't mean that all boycotts are bad. That, too, is rather stupid thinking.

[pipi_k]

122. As I said...

Boycott Florida if it makes you feel better.

While you're at it, boycott states that don't allow same-sex marriage. Oh, and states whose legislators have stuck their noses into women's right to choose.

Boycott all the states whose laws go against "progressive" ideals.

and that means complete and total boycott...no visiting...no financial support, as in whatever products made there are off-limits. Otherwise, you're supporting those states, right?

It's gonna suck big time, I think. Imagine having to check each and every package in the store to make sure it's not made in a "forbidden" state. Patronizing a business? Where is the main office? Florida? Oh shit!!! Maybe there's another business where the main office is in...um...South Carolina. Oh shit!!! Those bastards just tried to sneak anti-choice laws through in a bill mentioning motorcycles...!!!

As I said, go for it.

[EOTE]

126. Believe me, I do my best.

I also try to avoid products made in China to the best of my ability. Sometimes I fail, of course, but I do my best. Avoiding Florida is quite a bit easier to do. I have family and friends in Florida, usually go every couple of years. That won't be happening probably the remainder of my life, unless by some miracle Florida manages to make some dramatic changes over the next decade or so.

[pipi_k]

210. What about

India?

OK, so we have China, Florida, and where else needs a boycott?

All those states that support things contrary to "progressive" ideals.

Are we going for selective outrage here?

Trayvon Martin was, what...17?

How about states that may/will force young women...girls, actually...15 or 16 or 17...to get back alley abortions? Or use coathangers on themselves?

They'll die just as dead as Trayvon Martin did. But no outrage because nobody else did it to them?

Do you see the point I'm trying to make? The world is full of injustice. I guess I don't understand the point of boycotts whose likely only results would be that the boycotter gets to feel slightly superior. And maybe even could be fooling themselves into believing their boycotts had a real effect when the reality just might be that anything which changed happened for another reason than the boycott.

Like an economic downturn.

Or because people were too busy trying to effect real change by talking with voters and politicians...not engaging in some silly boycott.

[EOTE]

219. You have no idea what I am and am not outraged about.

But you seem to take particular exception with me being outraged over the Zimmerman verdict and my response to it, I wonder why that is. Boycotts aren't silly, they're a way to vote with your pocket book. I guess you just go out of your way to purchase products from companies owned by the Koch brothers, because who your money goes to means nothing, right? Florida has a problem with people like Zimmerman, they also have problem with racism in general. A lot of states have problems with their justice system, but I can't think of one as broken as Florida's. Minorities aren't allowed to defend themselves while people who kill minorities are free to murder again. Decent people don't support that bullshit.

[janlyn]

203. Well said, well said!

Methinks certain people have an over inflated opinion of themselves, and the impact they can make. And the convoluted thinking required to justify boycotting an entire state is sad indeed.
I used to think only conservatives lacked critical thinking skills.Alas, *sigh*

I think it's horrible that Zimmerman was acquitted! However I am also aware that I don't have all the facts to say with impunity, that it was a verdict reached by racism.

[DirkGently]

226. Are you maybe a rightwinger? Because Dems care A LOT about Florida

We're a big, populous, important electoral state. We turned blue the last two Presidential elections.

The only honest people I can think of who really, really want Florida to suffer are the Republicans, who do not like the blue-ward trend of the state.

What's your real angle here? Certainly isn't a progressive one.

[EOTE]

260. Yeah, I'm one of those right wingers who's sick of the racism rampant in this country.

In other words, not a right winger at all. Apparently you think being left wing means treating all states the same regardless of how entrenched it is in racism.

[NoPasaran]

208. A boycott? Pish posh!

How about random drone strikes on Florida targets? That'll teach 'em to elect the people we like!
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[EOTE]

221. Yes, because drone strikes and boycotts are totally similar.

Do you really achieve anything by using such ridiculous hyperbole? Not wanting to give my hard earned dollars to states which don't give a fuck about civil rights is just common sense. Totally similar to drone strikes. Derp.

[Decoy of Fenris]

2. Let them vent. It'll pass.

Lots of folks act irrationally when hurt or scared. No snark intended, by the way; DUers have been posting about their pain and fear. The need for tangible vengeance and seemingly meaningful action is normal.

It'll pass, as with all things.

Semi-related, my extended family and I will be down there in November for a wedding.

[bobduca]

25. This should be reposted on all the "rational" posts today saying how just this decison was.

Thank you for posting this.

[Decoy of Fenris]

46. Which bit?

I'm afraid I'm not entirely catching your meaning. My apologies; it's been a long night.

[DirkGently]

75. True. But these geographical bigots have lost their tiny minds.

Seriously? They follow a legal case they don't even understand, project all their rage about whatever onto the result, don't get their way, and start spewing their hatred at an entire state full of people? People who elected Obama President, twice, by the way.

I don't like the laws or politics in Virginia, Texas, Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, and on and on and on. All of which have done, as a state, plenty worse than acquit some asshole against whom there was insufficient evidence.

I don't hate the people there or suggest we try to damage the entire state somehow.

[Decoy of Fenris]

81. Typical mob mentality, and when the mob doesn't get what the mob wants, the mob goes a'lynching.

Preaching to the choir, mate.

Although, as I did mention, it's just a phase. People are animals first, -then- human beings, and a large part of what makes us human is our society. However, it's difficult to overcome that animal side when we are hurt, fearful and feeling vulnerable, especially at the hands of the society that molds us. I can't fault 'em any more than I can fault myself for doing the same thing in a different situation. They'll either get over it, or it will break them.

Such is life.

[WovenGems]

6. Details

It was average Floridians who elected twits and manned the Zimmerman and Anthony juries. So the average Floridian is responsible for the boycott. For a bunch of Bible thumpers they seem to have missed the part about you reap what you plant. Smart folks in a state shooting for being the dumbest need to speak up.

[Katashi_itto]

7. So by this rational the Montgomery Bus Boycott was wrong, because it affected people

adversely.

People that had no cars and were simply trying to get to work it was bad for them.

You know, we could expand your logic to encompass all boycotts, any and all protests, because invariably someone will be affected poorly.

This would work out great for our Plutocrats.

Gotcha.

[Kurska]

10. I'm sorry, but that is incredibly off comparison.

The Montgomery bus boycott came about because of unfair laws passed by the state legislature.

The Florida government brought their case against Zimmerman, but they lost how is that the same thing? Are you saying they didn't try hard enough and deserve to be punished?

[Katashi_itto]

20. You were the one discussing, I assume the economic burden that the "average" Floridian

would suffer from a boycott.


The reasons for the Montgomery Boycott were entirely different.

The economic ripple effect of a boycott was the excuse being fronted here.

What it boils back to

"...It ain't right...It ain't right Atticus..."

I can spend elsewhere.

[DirkGently]

78. They didn't boycott Mississippi. See the difference?

You can target one entity on one issue and make a difference. If a bus company is discriminating racially, and is dependent on black ridership, you can make a point.

Attacking an entire state on the basis you don't like a jury verdict is childish bullshit that will accomplish nothing.

[TM99]

115. Can I ask a question then?

Did you or others against this boycott of Florida feel the same way about the boycott of Arizona over its draconian immigration law?

Tourism suffered greatly in Arizona and others were negatively affected, however, it did make a significant social impact on the populace and the rest of America over this issue.

I am neither for or against such a boycott. I am living in Arizona. I am simply curious if those in this thread are being ethical consistent and congruent.

[DirkGently]

121. That was an arguably racist law. Where is the parallel?

Florida's self-defense statute is a standard statute like those in effect in most states. People who don't like Zimmerman (I don't either) think he should have been convicted because he appears to be a racist asshole, not because a good case existed with which to convict him.

Arizona wants to make presumably Hispanic "looking" people prove their citizenship. I think you can direct a boycott at a law like that where, say, performers refuse to appear, and make it clear that is the basis.

What would the parallel be here? People announcing they're not coming to Florida until ... what? We go out and convict Zimmerman of something? Kind of hard to argue the 40-something-year-old self-defense statute is a sudden racist attack.

[TM99]

133. Playing devil's advocate.

The law was the law. It was duly processed and executed. Not even all of it was overturned by the Supreme Court.

One can reasonably argue that the self-defense law in Florida was strongly influenced by the SYG law. So a reasonable boycott might be to do so until Florida changes the SYG law so that such a use of self-defense like this again is not possible.

[Katashi_itto]

158. The jury verdict is just the tip of the iceberg.

It's a reflection of a state that has promoted racism, poor health and oppressing it's populace.

It certainly does provide for something.

I am living up to my code of ethics.

If it does or doesn't have an effect is beside the point.

If my act has no meaning to you that's quite understandable.

[DirkGently]

161. Well then we're boycotting whatever's wrong with your state too.

Whoopee.

[Katashi_itto]

163. Good for you! Glad you agree with me.

Lots wrong with Louisiana too.

Jindal alone tops the list.

I spend my money very carefully here. I make sure every dime I can goes to community or local businesses.

I can't take that sort of care on vacation in Florida. Hence my boycotting it.

[DirkGently]

167. I was mocking your argument, because it's silly.

I support change in La. I don't plan on insulting everyone who lives there because Jindal is an ass and Chicago-School libertarians have hijacked the school system. I would happily patronize any small business in the area, and likely will at some point.

Because my waving my tentacles in the air crying that it's all a lost cause would be childish, and ineffectual.

[Katashi_itto]

170. Yes, I know it was sarcasm. I was mocking your argument.

Ahh well.

To each their own opinion and to each, the path that they feel is right.

Small actions may or may not have an effect, what is important is that the person takes action according to the dictates of their conscience

[DirkGently]

176. Yes, but if you want to effect change, cutting off your

nose (or peninsula, as it were) to spite your face is a silly way to go about it.

I get that people are mad about Zimmerman. So are we. Guy's a horrible person who caused a needless death.

But people not grasping how laws and evidence work is no call for of silly geographic bashing and stereotyping.

Nor is it an effective approach to improving things.

I stand with all the states where I think conservative badness is dominating. Texas, Louisiana, the Carolinas, Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Virginia.

I will not bash the people who live there on the basis conservative idiocy appears to be prevalent. I will help, where I can, and remember that you do good where it's most needed, not from the comfort of someone's cushy, wealthy blue state that claims to have no problems.

[Katashi_itto]

182. How does cutting off ones noes equate remotely to withholding my cash

and vacationing in Florida?

I can just as easily sail to some other spot to do my diving.

After all you said my actions would have little to no effect.

[DirkGently]

184. You'd effect more change helping progressives than

trying to starve conservatives who get their money from ALEC companies. They don't care about local effects at all.

[Katashi_itto]

232. Quite the stretch. I see no direct correlation between ALEC and local conservatives

in such a fashion.

[DirkGently]

234. The stretch is that you can "teach a state a lesson" by boycotting a jury verdict.

That's just silly. Bad gun laws are a national issue. Republicans are a national issue. Lose Florida for good, and you're screwing progressives and Democrats, not effecting change.

[Katashi_itto]

241. Silly? You were the one putting ALEC into the equation for locals. I have a different opinion.

[DirkGently]

245. I don't think we're communicating well.

I literally do not understand the words you are writing.

In conclusion, please do whatever you want. I'm fairly sure no one in Florida will notice.

Good luck.

[Katashi_itto]

254. Again, not a problem, I really don't care if it's noticed or not.

I just won't be spending in Florida.

[Ecumenist]

205. Hey dirk, nope the MONTGOMERY BOYCOTT didn't affect Mississippi ad there's a good reason why-

It was in ALABAMA and that boycott was only the most famous of the MANY boycotts. My uncles took part in lunch counter boycotts ALL over the south.

[DirkGently]

206. In all cases, the boycott was aimed at the business, not the state. Duh?

Just the businesses that discriminated. Because it would have been stupid to claim to boycott a state, because that would be meaningless.

[Ecumenist]

239. Actually, it's the only something that legistatures understand because when BUSINESS IS SQUEEZED

they lean on government= eventually,it's the bottom line that FORCES a change... So, ABSOLUTELY, OF COURSE, YOU BET, DAMN SKIPPY, HELL YEAH, DAMN STRAIGHT,AYE. YAH, SI, OUI, DAH. JAH, SEA, JA, IGEN, KEN, HAM, AI, HAI, EH, ARI, HA'A, AWO, EH NIHAWE WENA, KAJAMU, AHA, IO, EHE, YO'U, ATCAMA, HU'U, A', CHAPLA, A'A, JA, USI, CE TEDE, AHO, JO & YOU CAN BET YOU SAH-WEET BIPPY I agree that it works.

[DirkGently]

243. When has a state changed based on a general boycott?

I get boycotting a lunch counter or a bus service. I get boycotting Disney for sponsoring ALEC. I don't get how you convey the message you don't like a state's legal system by some kind of general action.

[Ecumenist]

257. You don't know the history of Civil rights and how those ineffective boycotts CHANGED history.

If you insist on being obtuse, I neither have the desire nor the time to teach you.

[DirkGently]

266. I know how the actual boycotts worked. Not the same thing.

Nice try?

[Ecumenist]

276. Ooh kay. Evidently, the fact I'm black and about 4 generations from slavery, the fact that

my people lived through Jim Crow and they used boycotts and protests, changing things are figments of my imagination, cuz the omnipotent DrikGently knows better. Thanks for telling my delusional ass I don't know what I'm talking about.

[DirkGently]

280. In this case, you are incorrect, yes.

I didn't suggest anything about you being delusional or me being omniscient.

But I will say I've had a bellyfull of the really nasty, poorly informed carping about "Florida" from people based on their dislike of the way a case turned out. Doesn't thrill me either, frankly, but sometimes we let people go rather than err in the other direction in this country.

[Ecumenist]

281. Of sourse, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Nevermind that it's NOT something in a

history book but a matter of my history, FIRSTHAND but what do know. I forgot to bow and scrape to your cheeky ass.

[DirkGently]

230. Ahhh. No. Just not going isn't a "boycott." Plenty of states are just unpopular.

People don't like some states because there's just nothing there. No one's organized a meaningful boycott of an entire state on the general idea they're unhappy about a criminal case.

What we have here is a very childish response from people who got themselves wound up to think a case needed to go a certain way based on how angry they were. Law doesn't work that way. Neither do "boycotts."

Check in a year from now. I will take any bet you care to lay that, let's see, ZERO "Zimmerman Trial" boycotting will have impacted Florida.

It's just a disgusting premise, is all. Progressives are supposed to be about understanding we are all in the same boat. Not liking an ALEC law is not a Florida issue. It's an ALEC issue, and ALEC is a national situation. How exactly do we disempower ALEC by simply pissing on whatever states -- and I'm going to say that would most of them -- end up with some of their legislation?

[onpatrol98]

229. Well, actually, Mississippi is ALWAYS on a boycott list.

Actually, there are plenty of people boycotting Mississippi. There are people who won't bring conferences here. People who don't send their kids to school here because they are fearful that things haven't changed very much. There are people who won't move here. And, there are companies that won't bring their businesses here. And, sometimes, they don't mind telling you why.

Mississippi is full of good people. And, there are good places to live here. But, people have a right to spend their money where they please. Yes, our economy suffers because of the stupid actions of a few people...some that have been in state government, and others that are just locals.

When something stupid happens, we EXPECT and DO hear a lot of ...well, I'm not going or coming down there. Katrina was devastating to our economy. And, when people collectively make up their minds NOT to support your state...that can be devastating for an even longer length of time. Then you have to try to convince people that your state isn't a bad as it used to be.

That's usually to no avail, because there are plenty of people who like the state exactly like it is and don't want any change to happen in it.

So, yes...Mississippi is ALWAYS on a boycott list.

[premium]

9. I wouldn't worry too much about it,

tourists, foreign and domestic, will still visit your beautiful state for it's attractions, ie: Disneyworld, the famous beaches, the food, etc.

Let them rant, it'll eventually pass when something else comes up.

[Egalitarian Thug]

11. The choice to stay is yours. What right do you have to ask people to support that cesspool

just because you don't want to get out and wash it off?

[DirkGently]

80. You're in Las Vegas, calling somewhere a "cesspool?"

Glass houses much?

[Egalitarian Thug]

93. It is, but it's still better than FL, MO, TX, OK, MS, etc. and I'm not asking anyone to come

or stay here in the vain hope of "fixing" it.

[DirkGently]

107. Thankfully, people in Mississippi & Alabama didn't share

your view, or we'd have no Civil Rights Act, eh?

[Egalitarian Thug]

140. Ah, but they did and still don't support it. That's why they stopped electing Democrats

almost half a century ago and black people, especially men, are still the victims of violence in insanely disproportionate percentages.

You can try to deny the facts all you want, but there they are, silent evidence of your wrong-headed need to pretend that reality isn't so.

[DirkGently]

144. The facts are that change occurred in the South.

Because people worked to change it, not to despise the region and everyone in it.

The fact that more is needed doesn't make the case that you don't go to where the problems are to fix them.

But please, provide an example of a general regional boycott improving the progressivism of ... anywhere. No?

The unreality and wrong-headedness are yours.

[Egalitarian Thug]

153. Uh huh, sure, whatever you say. We just saw the latest example of change where you live.

What's the weather like there in fantasy land? Do unicorns really fart rainbows?

[DirkGently]

155. Do you have a response to the substance of the post?

Generalized sarcasm is the refuge of cowards.

[Egalitarian Thug]

166. I did. I wrote it. You ignored the facts to repeat some nonsense.

Don't worry, there are a lot more people like you than me, so I'm sure your comfort in that racist cesspool will not be effected.

[DirkGently]

168. Really? Get back to me when the "boycott" takes off.

Nice wind pissing, though, really. So smug. Super convincing!

[Egalitarian Thug]

172. Why on earth would you imagine that I would try to convince you of anything?

You've made it quite clear on this and many other topics here on which side of the divide you come down on.

Oh, and we do see you. You fool no one (except maybe yourself).

[DirkGently]

175. Guilty. I'm one of those "Don't boycott Florida" for no reason folks.

Always have been, always will be.

[Egalitarian Thug]

178. The fact that you believe there is no reason says all that anyone needs to know about

your authoritarian beliefs. Don't let the fact that the philosophy you advocate has always been wrong about everything and only makes the world a worse place dissuade you in any way.

The fact that you took your username from one of the brightest, most progressive, and clever authors of our time is somewhat irksome, however, so you do have that to cling to.

[DirkGently]

183. Oh dear, now I'm an "authoritarian?" Please explain.

Thanks for liking my Douglas Adams reference. I don't think he'd boycott Florida over the results of a trial though.

[DonCoquixote]

249. are you willing

to help those who want to move out do so? I suspect you would choke on the amount of money it would take.

[Egalitarian Thug]

268. In any way I can. But what makes you feel entitled to ask for it? I want to get out of

the U.S. entirely, but I don't expect that it is the job of the citizens of whatever civilized nation I would want to emigrate to, to fund my move.

Or are you simply saying that you would rather stay and subject yourself and your family to the insanity, than lose some money? And if that is true, then I suggest you are very well suited to Floriduh and should stay put.

[DonCoquixote]

270. no

I stay and fight the good fight, which is exactly what the GOP does not want. And I cannot lose money I do not have, being well under the poverty line.

[Egalitarian Thug]

271. Then you have little to lose. As so many of us have learned, one can be poor anywhere. n/t

[DonCoquixote]

272. Only a fool

speaks so blithely of poverty, then again, people in your state can pay my medical bills, I suppose.

[Egalitarian Thug]

274. You can call me all the names you like, I couldn't care less, but FFS quit whining like

you're the only poor person in America. Oh, and your team spirit is has been a big help in making millions of other people poor as well. They won't, but the parasites should thank all of you.

[DonCoquixote]

279. team spirit

You mean the one where I tell people not to dogpile on the weak and wounded, because it makes the GOP happy?

[former9thward]

12. There is no boycott.

99.999% of people who were actually planning on visiting FL will still come. DU posters speak for themselves. They don't set national policy. About every state at one time or the other gets a boycott thread over some injustice. Most people claiming to boycott FL had no intention of going there anyway.

[mick063]

56. Boycott isn't national policy, policy is dictated by government (ie. corporations)

The state that set the precedent for legislating "stand your ground" can be the state that sets the precedent for repealing "stand your ground"

Boycott is a personal decision.

That decision can be influenced.

A movement can start based upon multiple personal decisions.

The issue doesn't have to be confined to just Martin for the boycott.

The issue can focus on "stand your ground", whether it applies to Martin or not.

"Stand your ground" emboldens gun owners to perform actions that may not be legally applicable to "stand your ground"

The boycott can be focused on bringing public awareness to ALEC.

Martin can be the catalyst.

[NaturalHigh]

13. Boycott? Pfft.

The boycott will amount to nothing more than a few people who can afford to take vacations in the first place cancelling their trips to Florida. Most of the hotheads going on about a boycott won't even do that. My cousins are going to Florida later this month. They, like a lot of people, are barely aware of what happens more than a few hundred miles from home.

[markiv]

14. it's group guilt

i'm guilty for slavery, even though my ancestors never lived in a slave state, and the people of my state fought and died to free them

[pnwmom]

21. If neither you nor your ancestors lived in a slave state, then how would you ever fall

under any concept of group guilt?

[markiv]

27. that's the whole point of group guilt

it's hating people who look like someone who did soemthing bad

and it doesnt matter which side it comes from, it's the same thing

[pnwmom]

32. The difference in this situation is that Florida voters are in the position to

put pressure on their legislators to change their gun and self-defense laws. That is why some people are calling for boycotts -- to put pressure on the voters and the state to change the laws.

[markiv]

38. why not boycott anything American made, to protest NSA spying?

you know those people working on the factory line could have stopped it, if they really cared

[pnwmom]

45. Go ahead and try. But most people realize that would be self-defeating. n/t

[pipi_k]

106. I had much the same thing

happen one time back in the 90s

I lived with a First Nations man (Mohawk) who had lots of NA/First Nations friends.

We were at the home of a married couple...husband, Lakota...wife, Abenaki

They got to talking about living on the "rez" and some other things having to do with what white people did. My boyfriend said something about red tape...the Abenaki woman corrected him and said, "You mean WHITE tape".

I don't know if they knew I wasn't NA too, although they had another guest at their home one time who asked me if I came from the "rez", to which I had to answer no.

But my point is, I felt like shit. Group guilt. This was years before I did my family tree and found out that a ggg grandmother on my father's side was M'ikmaq, so as far as I knew I, as a descendant of French Canadians, was responsible for a lot of the travesties toward NA people.


group guilt sucks.

[Katashi_itto]

26. No group guilt for me. I'm 2nd gen immigrant

I simply focus my spending on either companies or places that actually have a social conscious.

[bobduca]

28. Very revealing

So you are saying that structural racism is just a myth...

[Marrah_G]

16. Hey, Florida is a tourism state

When you elect people that pass laws and behave in ways that makes people no longer want to visit your state then you have the option to either live with it or change the politicians and the laws.

I have no desire to ever, ever visit Florida again. My parents live there half the year. I won't visit them there. Your state elects people who make laws I find revolting and frankly, dangerous.

I would like to add that I think your state CAN change, but only if all the people who aren't involved start speaking out. It would have to come from the grassroots.

[pnwmom]

18. Can you understand why many visitors might not feel safe in a state with your gun laws, and

your state's attitudes about what constitutes "self-defense"? Can you understand why African American visitors in particular might not feel safe traveling there?

Why visit a state like that?

The other idea, of course, is to put pressure on ordinary Floridians to pressure their legislators to change their gun laws.

[premium]

39. FL. firearms laws are actually stricter than my state of Nevada,

here, we have open and concealed carry, while FL's open carry law is much stricter than NV's, yet, it hasn't affected the tourist trade here.

[pnwmom]

44. Well, that's not saying much, is it?

If Nevada had a similar case to this one, there might be calls for a boycott of Nevada, too.

[premium]

52. There have been calls to boycott Nevada by the Holy Rollers

who detest gambling and casinos, it hasn't done diddly shit, which is exactly what's going to happen in FL.
Oh, alot of people will agitate for one, but in the end, it'll fizzle out when the next crises appears.

[pnwmom]

77. Well, that wouldn't have any effect because Holy Rollers don't do tourism stuff in Nevada. n/t

[Fumesucker]

237. Q: How do you keep a Baptist from drinking all the beer on a fishing trip?

A: Bring two Baptists.

My point being that "holy rollers" are at least as big a sinners as anyone else, they're just hypocrites about it, there's plenty of them going to Las Vegas but they don't do it in groups.

[L0oniX]

124. Of course NY and Boston are much safer. pffft

[pnwmom]

148. NY and MA have much lower rates of gun violence than Florida.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/04/03/1811311/study-states-with-loose-gun-laws-have-higher-rates-of-gun-violence/

[cthulu2016]

19. Wha? What state elects FL's legislature?

If someone thinks there is a problem with the law sufficient to protest (if we stipulate that) then the people of Florida are not innocent bystanders.

[mstinamotorcity2]

22. Nothing!!!!!

Which is how most people of color feel about their chances in the justice system....zilch!!!!

[arely staircase]

24. they are the ones who can insist the laws be changed nt

[Kurska]

33. What law needs to be changed, exactly. This wasn't a stand your ground case.

That is what I'm not getting...

Also isn't that a texas flag? Would your advocate for a boycott of a texas, considering your laws are pretty much the same or worse on this kind of stuff.

[arely staircase]

63. I am not calling for a boycott of anything, but rather answering your question.

nt

[Horse with no Name]

36. Of course, there is always collateral damage

and for that, it is unfortunate.

However, I honestly wouldn't expect any of my friends to visit me here in Texas because of the backassward bunch of bullshit that happens here.

I avoid Walmart at all costs.

And now, I will avoid Florida at all costs and I am sorry that it will hurt folks in the process...but, you might choose to live where you can be shot at the whim of another person, but I choose not to visit there.

[ellenfl]

54. perhaps you should move. eom

[coldmountain]

40. The whole south should be boycotted for many reasons! Why feed the enemy?

There were good Germans in WW2 who lived under the threat of being guillotined by the Nazi, that didn't prevent the Allies from bombing the cities they lived in.

Don't buy cars built in the non-union south! Don't vacation there! Don't eat at Chick-fil-a. Maybe someone can come up with a app that boycotts southern products and sends an e-mail to the appropriate place telling them of your purchase of a competitive product from a blue gay friendly not so anti union state. Many already boycott Arkansas based Wal-Mart and they aren't doing as well as they used to.

A boycott would also give progressives, gays and minorities in the south leverage to get the south caught up with the rest of the world to end the boycott.

[DirkGently]

82. And Ohio, Virginia, Michigan, Wisconsin, North Carolina,

Indiana, Texas, Prop-8-passing California, right?

And, no, a boycott would NOT help Southern Progressives. We need more outside support, not attacks from small minded yankee bigots.

[coldmountain]

211. In general the American south is far worse the rest of the advanced world, it's time for tough love

Which southern state has gay marriage like Mexico City?

I lived in the south for 30 years and it is backward outside major cities, this is just a fact, like the south lost a war about slavery.
Maybe if more southerners would admit that, they could start moving forward. Yes other places have problems but the south is to the American rightwing like Afghanistan is to Al queda. Lee Atwater didn't call it the "Southern Strategy" for no good reason.

[DirkGently]

212. We don't have transvaginal ultrasounds either.

The South bashing is a crock of shit. The worst rightwing garbage happening now is in places like Michigan and Wisconsin. Michigan is literally taking over small predominantly black towns, stripping their officials of their powers, and in one case, building a freaking golf course.

Your attitude is what keeps things from improving more. All the effort and money and support goes to stone-cold blue states where it's not needed. Meanwhile Southern progressives struggle to do more with less.

You go ahead and stab Southern progressives in the back. We've got yours.

[coldmountain]

214. Why defend the south? Aspire to something better like being an American

Didn't transvaginal ultrasound start in Virginia?

Why defend the South, aspire to something better, like being America or being a world citizen. The south as a concept has never stood for anything really worth defending.

[DirkGently]

215. You're not attacking an abstract concept. Florida is not "The South."

People live here. People better and smarter than you, by the way.

Your brainless attacks on geography have nothing to do with improving anything; you just have some sort of demented bigotry toward an area of the country for some reason. Florida voted for Obama twice.

Just because you and a handful of others find the result of a criminal trial you couldn't be bothered to understand not your liking doesn't call for attacking everyone who lives south of you.

[coldmountain]

255. Sanford Florida is a part of the south with a terrible history of racism

[L0oniX]

47. You're trying to have a reasonable discussion with an irrational mob?

[TheLion]

48. Answer: EVERYTHING!!

The 'average Floridian, who would be punished by a boycott'...:

Elect the legislators and governor who pass Floriduh's insane laws
Through the legislature and the governor, appoint and approve the judges who administer what passes for law in that state
Provide the jurors who can find that an armed stalker can shoot and kill an unarmed teenager 'in self-defense'.
Pay the taxes that pay for the police and prosecutors not to investigate/prosecute the gun death of said teenager.
Tolerate the reality that elected officials responsible for fair elections are also state election campaign managers and Party officials.

Floriduh has exactly the corrupt, up-for-bid, racist government it deserves - and which its citizens apparently want.

[DonCoquixote]

250. and those of us

who have been working to turn this state blue can go to hell, funny, that is the same line the red people we fight take.

[Egalitarian Thug]

267. Well then, considering your state's history since its inception, and that the people have failed

for at least 80 years to change it despite all their earnest efforts, maybe it's just time to realize that FL likes being the backward refuge for the nation's liars, thieves, con men, and general scum.

You can try and try to build a house from the roof down, but at some point one has to realize it's a bad job that's really not worth doing.

[Generic Other]

50. What kind of economic impact would African American boycott have on Florida?

How many African Americans go to Disneyworld, for example? I can't find any demographics on the potential impact.

[DirkGently]

85. If you mean poor African Americans, not many.

Ticket prices at Disney are hundreds of dollars for even a small family. Disney depends on rich foreigners for its cash flow.

[CakeGrrl]

111. Better still, the athletes on Florida sports teams, especially college

who have a legitimate fear of being profiled by a Zimmerman type.

Why should Florida reap the benefits of their talent while saying that they could be killed under a certain set of circumstances, but oh well?

[abelenkpe]

55. Citizen's United says money is free speech

but that's only for the wealthy just like justice. Little people should never boycott, or strike, and after the recent supreme court decision on the Voting Rights Act, probably not bother voting either.

I mean we don't want to hurt businesses.

Funny cause reports of outsourcing and offshoring never elicit the same concern. Reports of cuts to food stamps, medicaid, social security or unemployment don't make people worried that businesses might suffer. But a boycott? O hell no! Think of the economy!

See it's OK for businesses and politicians to choose to not spend money locally, but an individual? No no no.

[leftyohiolib]

57. they voted republican - good enough reason to avoid the state

[DirkGently]

60. People are just angry and flailing about ineffectually.

They projected all their rage about a number of things onto a case, made it into a symbol for something, and now are lashing out impotently.

If anyone seriously wanted progressive change in Florida, they'd dig in and drum up support for the progressives busting their asses down here, getting Obama elected, turning the state blue.

And there's more than a hint of the weirdo geographic bigotry, where someone wants to feel like they're a better person based on where they live.

[Township75]

87. That is a kick ass post

Wailing and nashing of teeth that isn't directed towars anything that will make a difference. I bet most that say they are going to boycott FL had no plans of going there to begin with.

[L0oniX]

119. ^^^^this^^^^

[Courtesy Flush]

70. This boycott talk is BS

For every person who boycotts Florida, three more will rush in. Some because they are right wingers who will counter-boycott, but mostly because it's Florida. Every empty hotel room is an invitation. Too many empty hotel rooms and you suddenly have vacation bargains, which will be publicized on the morning news, and on travel websites.

You can't boycott a major attraction. Sure, don't go there, but someone will surely go in your place.

[William769]

83. Kick & highly recommended.

And from someone not foaming at the mouth, this is a breath of fresh air.

From a fellow Floridian.

[BlueJazz]

84. I live in Florida. I don't take it personal. We DO have a pack of Crooked Republicans as....

...our leaders here and they certainly didn't get into office by smart and kind people.

Our State is a lousy place. That's just the way it is.

[DirkGently]

86. It's not just the way it is. People are fighting to make things better.

All these yahoos from states with their own political and social problems are having a snit because they don't understand how the law works, is all.

When you want change, you give support. Kvetching about the entire state as a whole is a meaningless tantrum.

[BlueJazz]

98. Your words are nice but Florida is not going to change...way too many ignorant, uneducated

...voters here PLUS...even when the voters are not uninformed, the game gets "Rigged"

[DirkGently]

99. The state is turning blue as we speak.

Florida is a populous state with a huge electoral punch. The I-4 corridor went for Obama twice, and Rick Scott won governorship by a narrow margin over a poor Dem opponent.

If we had more to work with down here, more good can be done. The whiners acting like "Florida" is a person they can punish are just venting their spleen because they got wound up in a court case they didn't bother to understand in the first place.

[Inkfreak]

90. Florida will be alright. A boycott is laughable. (nt)

[TheDebbieDee]

92. Screw you, Kurska. I'm going to Disneyland in California, a state

with a legislature that has NOT declared Open Season on shooting brown and black people.

Phuck Disneyworld and the rest of Flori-duh!

[DirkGently]

130. Disney is an ALEC sponsor that supports Stand Your Ground.

But go ahead, generalize a state instead of the actual perpetrators of the policy you claim to oppose.

[TheDebbieDee]

138. But the California legislature didn't pass this $hit, did they?

Game, set and match! I'm not spending any of my $ in stoo-pid a$$ Flori-duh!

[DirkGently]

141. Disney's ALEC money comes from Cali, too.

Hypocrite, much?

[DirkGently]

162. Well "California" released the murderer O.J. Simpson.

And your patronizing Disney, "Land" or "World" supports Stand Your Ground equally.

So you really don't have a point, do you?

[MADem]

95. I am going to FL in the fall for a meeting, and I intend to be very judicious with my spending.

I won't be giving money, if I can avoid it, to any GOP entities to the extent that I am able.

[HockeyMom]

97. Not being an "average Floridian", Florida could sink for all I care

Look at my Avatar. I told both my daughters, who still live in NY, not to come here. I did that back in 2007 when I had to move back here. I will go to NY to see you. My lesbian daughter (warned her not to) moved here in 2009. That lasted all of 3 months. "I told you so".

I moved to Gainesville in 1971. Moved back after 6 months. I swore I would never set foot in Florida again. With the exception of once in 1986 to Disney, I didn't. My husband and daughters came a few times, but I stayed home. I told my husband that I hate Florida. If not for his job, I would not be here. I hate it even more now. Naples is such a wonderful place to live. Ugly behind it's phony exterior. So full of really nice, snooty, white, rich people. 1971? 2007? Zimmerman who? Trayvon who? What happened with them is just icing on the cake, and more proof to me.

Two things people must remember. Look beyond the facade of sun, weather, and palm trees. It is still the South and the Bible Belt. Those things are just a mirage for tourists, retirees, and snowbirds. That is ALL it has going for it. If you wanted to boycott NYC, would that matter? Of course not, because it's economy isn't based solely on Weather or some Travel Agent's selling point of Paradise. If I hear that word again, and it is said ALL the time here, I will PUKE.

I agree with the boycott. You will not hurt me if you do. I hope I can get to Boycott Florida myself someday. All things considered, I would rather be in Philadelphia.

Sorry, OP, this is nothing personal against you. I just do not like, or want to be in, your state. It is not mine, and never will be. Leave me out your talking points.

[hack89]

105. I will be in Orlando next week with my family

a mini-stimulus do to speak. Talk of boycott is just frustration - nothing will come of it.

[kestrel91316]

118. Florida is an extremely racist state full of confederate teabagger types.

[DirkGently]

128. Who went for Obama. Twice. n/t

[Spitfire of ATJ]

131. I've always thought the best way to turn a State Blue is for us to move there....

Thus watering down "teh stupid".

[DirkGently]

136. It's the main reason Florida has changed so far.

Central and Southern Florida are hubs for immigration and tourism. And they're increasingly blue, especially with the University of Central Florida becoming one of the largest undergrad campuses in the county. No. 2, I believe.

You can't swing a cat without (happily) finding a New Yorker or an immigrant family from various parts of the world. The Old South is strong in the northern counties.

It's why Gov. Scott won't speak in public. He runs out to a Republican retirement community and speaks before aging conservatives. Every. Time.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

143. It's also why Nevada has become more Progressive...

Obama even won North Carolina and Indiana in 08.

The media will take a margin of .01% and paint a state bright red as if it's unanimous.

[DirkGently]

146. Rick Scott won here by 1 or 2%

And yet I see the weirdo geographical bigots holding that up as a reason to disparage the entire state. Fact is, had we had a better candidate than the bankster Dem we were stuck with, Governor Medicare Fraud wouldn't be prancing around the Villages in his silly custom cowboy boots.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

152. The PROBLEM is that Republicans ACT like they have a 100% majority....

....while Dems act like they have to apologize for accidentally winning.

[DirkGently]

154. And Repubs are ruthless when in power.

An Orange County group recently obtained 50,000 signatures under the County Charter, calling for a referendum on paid sick leave, a progressive initiative that's been working around the country.

The "non-partisan" but actually all-but-one Republican County Commission stalled and refused to put it on the ballot, while texting madly with their Republican and Disney lobbyist friends. The activists sued, and won an order putting the measure on the ballot, although at that point it was too late for 2012.

The Republican response was to have ALEC and Disney craft a bill superseding county control and slam it through the state legislature, delivering what one Republican leader texted to the Commission would be the "kill shot."

And they did.

Nice, eh?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

159. Deep down they know their time is ending. That the country is rejecting them...

That's the reason they are slamming though all these things that have been on their wish list while they can.

They don't really believe any of this crap will survive but they want to remember this as a time of victories.

[DirkGently]

165. Apparently we'll have to do it without the aid of Angry Zimmerman Case People.

I suspect the result will be the same, either way.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

187. You know that SOME people will simply troll for fun on this....

Especially on sites where they don't give a damn about their account being cancelled.

You'll see that on local TV website comments in particular.

[DirkGently]

188. I don't like progressives acting like idiots. We're better than that.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

189. I like trolling the trolls.

[DirkGently]

191. It has been fun. One dude is threatening that he's "watching" me!

He must be SO pissed!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

195. I've had someone disapear for a while,...

....then come back mad as hell claiming I MADE them throw their own monitor out the window.

My response was, "Was the window open?"

[DirkGently]

198. Yikes. I suppose there's an argument for letting them cool down a while.

It's a horrible case. Horrible facts; horrible outcome. But for some reason state bigotry pushes my buttons a bit. Who gets mad at a STATE? Like, what, you're going to show "Texas" how wrong "Texas" is and "Texas" will straighten up?

Who thinks like that?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

200. Teabaggers.

[DirkGently]

202. Gack. I would hope DU is free of Teabagger logic.

Times like these, you have to wonder though.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

273. People don't get that half the people don't vote...

That means even in a place like Texas there is a possibility to expose just how SMALL the Right Wing is in this country if enough people actually VOTE. Women alone would do it EASILY.

[olddots]

149. How much will a boycott effect you personally ?????

where you live is what effects you not some people choosing to not support some big corporations and turd maggot government racists in bed with the NRA......You want to help ? don't think this is about YOU .

[fishwax]

185. for starters, I don't think the average Floridian will be punished by a boycott

because I don't think there will be an extensive boycott.

That said, if people don't want to spend their money in your state because the gun laws and legal system there make them feel unsafe or offend their moral sensibility, that's their business. I don't see any moral obligation to visit Florida.

Assuming such people who boycott Florida tourism don't simply stuff their vacation money in a mattress and stop consuming fruit, they'll spend it somewhere else, helping out apple farmers and hospitality workers in some other part of the country.

[leftstreet]

199. Fewer and fewer people can even afford a vacation

Talk of boycotts is so (dying) middle class america!

[lame54]

201. Voting for Rick Scott

[Mr. David]

207. I have a long-standing boycott of Florida

Until they get rid of their idiotic Republicans and make their laws sane again.

[Texasgal]

209. I agree. It's dumb and useless.

I hear it all of the time here on DU about Texas so I can sympathize.

Hang in there!

[Boom Sound 416]

218. Well said

[Boom Sound 416]

222. Florida has over 30 million tourists

A year from all over the world. Additionally, its the fourth largest state in America.

So if you want to take your two grand vacation somewhere else. Fine. Have a good time. We'll be fine. Besides, I-95 is friggin' crowded as hell anyway. One more tourist who hates our state won't be missed.

[Sheepshank]

224. And for many it's not about punishing Florida. Sheesh it's much broader than that.

(reposted with corrections, from another thread)

In the case or boycotting Rush's sponsors for example....
...did anyone feel bad for the fallout for all those companies and their employees?.....what a bunch of cods wallop.

I won't be spending my money in Florida, my spending money is just as easily used elsewhere and keeping someone else employed. Why are Floridians more derserving of my vacation dollars than lets say the good folks in Hawaii? It has everything to do with personal preferences, personal sense of safety and personal responsibility. It's not my job to keep everyone in the nation employed. Otherwise I'd have to stay in every hotel in every city in the USA, buy every product ever manufactured, drink every lemonade out of every lemonade stand. The idea that my personal choice must be made with other's emplyoment in mind is ludicrous.

I will take my family on a vacation to a place where I feel they will be safe and not hunted. Where I have no fear of people packing guns, where we can feel carefree and happy. Right now and for me, Florida isn't offering that.

[fadedrose]

227. Whoever voted for the Governor

who picked the prosecutor who decided the charges they knew wouldn
't convict. They are not the innocent morons we are led to believe they are, they are cunning and evil, in my opinion...

Votes elected Scott.

[otohara]

233. We Boycott All Sorts of Corporations

where people work.

Fairly sick of the South and their backward racist ways.

[McDiggy]

235. I'm not boycotting Florida...

...I'm avoiding it out of fear for my life.

There is a subtle difference.

[99Forever]

244. Don't like it?

Move.

That fucking cesspool with legalized murder will never see one second of my family's time or one penny of it's money, ever again. Ever.

Go ahead and give me a ration of bullshit, that will really change my mind.

Oh yeah...

FUCK MARCO RUBIO.

[DonCoquixote]

261. some of us voted against Rubio

and we risked getting tombstoned when the powers that be here at DU broke their rule against non dem candidates to campaign for former GOP crist, said by someone who voted for kendrick Meek.

But you seemed to assume I voted for him, right?

And as far as a ration of BS, how slashing the throats of those who are trying to fight, who are in the thick of it, defies common sense.

[lynne]

246. I wouldn't be too concerned about the effectiveness of a boycott -

- as I have serious doubts that those who say they're boycotting ever had any intentions of going to or doing business with Florida in the first place. And cruise people - a lot of who go to Florida and the only reason I've ever been there - aren't going to give up their cruise-of-choice as they're pretty loyal.

I personally don't believe in boycotts as they always impact the "little guy" who has no control over what went on in the first place. Guess they make the boycotter feel like they're doing something but I feel they're an exercise in futility. For every person that boycotts, there's someone else actively throwing business in that direction to negate it.

[47of74]

251. They elect assholes

[robinlynne]

253. the jury. anger at the jury.

[dogknob]

269. Apathy is a luxury and an addiction...

...When the money to support your addiction runs out, you will be forced into some kind of action.

Using Florida's poor as some sort of human shields against a boycott is one stage of denial, I suppose.

I, for one, am tired of having my beliefs, empathy, and compassion used against me like they are some sort of weakness... by cynical, talentless nihilists whose only way of staying relevant is by owning the MSM and, by extension, the opinions of too many people.

I will support Alan Grayson and others who demonstrate real willingness and action to return some credibility to Florida... but that's it.

No PR. No re-branding. No relocating of corporate headquarters. Real change or no money from me.

[TorchTheWitch]

277. Boycotting the state is just epically stupid

The only people it will hurt are the ones the least deserving and the least that can afford the hurt. It will effect the state government not one iota. It's a useless enterprise and just a really unbelievably stupid idea.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

282. They built that. P.S. If Rubio wins nomination

Florida is already high probability to go for him.