George Zimmerman is a 'law abiding gun owner'

[geek tragedy]

Legally declared so by the state of Florida.

Which just shows that 'law abiding gun owners' are a menace to public safety just as much as officially criminal ones.

To our friends on the Gungeon: may you be surrounded by law abiding gun owners such as Zimmerman. Leave your skittles at home.

[PDJane]

1. Which is the reason I believe in gun control. Period.

[In_The_Wind]

2. Kicked & Recommended

[Hoyt]

3. Yep, in gun culture's view, Zman is just another law-abiding, responsible gun owner.

He might even be a martyr like Randy Weaver or something.

[geek tragedy]

4. He did what the Gungeoneers dream of doing.

He shot an insolent black person and got away with it.

He's the face of American gun culture.

[Hoyt]

5. The gun nut bigots will chalk it up as a "justifiable homicide."

[backwoodsbob]

7. he should have had a can of beans

or a staff

[Hoyt]

10. Too bad your buddy George could not get along without a gun.

Trayvon would still be here, and you'd be sad.

[name not needed]

56. Homicide is the act of killing a human being. They'd have to view blacks as human beings for that

to be the case.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

8. He's not the face of anyone here on DU

Your insults and board brush are just

[Hoyt]

11. George Zimmerman prior to shooting Trayvon would be considered a law-abiding, responsible gun owner

by gungeoneers. They will consider him the same now. And some will celebrate his so-called "self dense use of a gun."

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

14. No one that I can respect...

...will celebrate anything connected with the Martin shooting including yesterday's verdict.
OTOH, "self dense" is a good description of GZ.

[Hoyt]

16. Well, I hope when you are toting you are more discerning than you are with some of the gungeoneers.

Some, damn sure supported Zman. Others choose to remain in the gungeon where they are protected from criticism for their bad habits.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

19. Just bizarre

First I don't "tote" a firearm, nor do I carry concealed. I don't open carry, either. I don't do any of those things with or without other "gungeoneers". To the best of my knowledge, I've not met in person another DU member.

"Others choose to remain in the gungeon where they are protected from criticism for their bad habits."

I see your memories of the gungeon are faulty.

[Hoyt]

21. Nope. A few months before I was banned, gungeoneers were in a discussion of what you tell police

and what you do to stay out of jail when you pull a Zimmerman (ie, shoot an innocent person).

Gungeoneers are against all attempts like micro-stamping, registration, powder marking, etc., because they are afraid they might get caught if they screw up.

[Decoy of Fenris]

22. No we're not. Really, as a group, we're only against registering. :)

I'm all down with microstamping and powder-marking (Never heard of it, but interesting concept). I'm just not certain if it'd be as effective as you think it may be.

[Hoyt]

37. If it is only 10% effective, it will help. Gungeoneer regulars say they'd file off stamping

mechanism. Ain't that nice and law-abiding. They also are against it in case they sell a gun in the back alley, or elsewhere without a background check, and the gun is used in a crime down the road. They want no responsibility.

My favorite was still the thread about making sure to turn off your cell phone after calling police when they shoot someone, so that no one hears something that raises suspicion.

I'm sorry, most gun owners may follow the law (of course, they study it to know when they can blast away just like Zimmerman), but they aren't morality-abiding when the tuck one or two in their pants before walking among the public, or acquiring assault style weapons for use in some coming domestic war.

I'm sick of the gun nuts, who are usually bigots just like Zimmerman.

[Decoy of Fenris]

44. Well, never mind that filing doesn't really work, I can't say I've seen that.

What few posts that mention filing off microstamping seem to be done -solely- to troll you, and it looks like you bit the hook rather hard on most of them. Likewise, most posts that insist on illegal action against gun-control legislation seem to be trolling, and given the history of some of those PPRed regulars, it's not exactly unexpected. I can't say that any of the more reasonable (read; non-Troll) RKBA crew would inherently be opposed to most of what you've brought up here.


See, this is what I don't get, Hoyt. I read back through the archives, and at one point, you seemed to be a gun controller I agreed with on most issues. Then, for some reason, over a month, your arguments devolved until they hit the level of "Just for shits" dickery, and that's what has always puzzled me about you. You're definitely smart, you do have (at the very least) average debate skills, and yet you got yourself banned out of the Gungeon... For what? Fun? You're obviously capable of having an intelligent discussion, I guess I just don't understand why you went the route you did.


Also, a brief statement on morality: It's subjective. That's the problem with "Moral" arguments. What you see as moral, others see as immoral, and visa versa.


Either way, that's neither here nor there. I promise you, most of us genuine left-wing gun-owners are just as sick of the lunatic-fringe of the gun control issue as well. The only really pressing issue between our two groups, as I told BainsBane, is the fringe extremists on either side. As it stands, we're trying to bring reasonable and progressive debate to the gun violence issue, but we're fighting the whackos on the right and the loonies on the left, and we're finding the necessity to defend ourselves against both fronts. I -agree- with you on the "If it saves 10%" bit, but I honestly don't think it will. Filing and powder tracking can only be done after a murder, and while I cannot speak for you, I prefer to preempt the crime at it's source rather than treating a tool of said crime.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

23. yeah; whatever

Have yourself a good day.

[PsychGrad]

26. In rural Missouri...

People were lighting off fireworks in celebration of the not guilty verdict.

[LaydeeBug]

28. ^^this^^ because it ;looks like you need to arm yourself for protection in Florida. nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

32. thanks

I don't fully understand but thanks.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

35. This OP and some of the comments in this thread ... and the people that KandR this type of thing ...

:vomit: is right.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

34. That is a disgusting comment to make about fellow DUers. and He is by no means the face of

the American Gun Culture.

and what you are saying about Trayvon even in sarcasm is disgusting.

I realize emotions are running high today over the verdict but, to turn on good, respected, donating DUers is just

Not Right or Good at all.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

57. ^^^ yeah +1 right here

[BainsBane]

61. No question about it.

They were glued to this case.

[cherokeeprogressive]

66. How the fuck do you get away with saying DUers dream of killing black people?

Congratulations on making what is without a doubt THE most fucked up accusation against fellow members I've seen here. Bigger congratulations on getting away with it.

[Pelican]

6. Amazing logic...

I'm sure you apply the same process to everyone else found not guilty in a court of law.

[geek tragedy]

59. He's a law abiding gun owner who shot a child.

Forgive us if we accurately view the concept of a law abiding gun owner to be a joke.

[BainsBane]

62. Are you advocating now that those acquitted in court should be denied

the right to own guns? That would be quite a departure for you.

[Pelican]

67. Should have used the...

[BainsBane]

69. Is there some reason you won't answer the question?

Or is your contention Zimmerman isn't a danger but should be free to kill again?

[Pelican]

70. He's a "regular" citizen who was found not guilty...

I might also add there is more of a threat towards him than the average person.

[BainsBane]

71. and he is more likely to kill

Does that bother you at all? Do you care at all about his next victim? Did you care at all about his last victim?

[Pelican]

72. I'm bothered that he might be attacked out of vengeance...

Using the logic portion of my brain, something I recommend you try, I deduce that he will go out of his way not to have to go through the fiasco that resembled a trial again.

So no, I'm not worried that he is going to start shooting up the place.

[BainsBane]

73. So you're not concerned about who he kils

or that he killed an unarmed boy walking home from the store? Why is Zimmerman's life more valuable than his victims? Because he carries a gun? Being a killer makes him better than someone who follows the law and minds his own business?

[Pelican]

75. If he kills again...

... it should be evaluated by the same legal standard that anyone else would get.

I don't know why you are obsessed with which life is more valuable. I can tell you that if I feel that I am going to die or suffer grave bodily harm at the hands of another, that I will do everything I can do make it stop up to and including lethal force.

You can curl up in a ball and accept your fate if you like...

[BainsBane]

78. Zimmerman followed a boy and killed him

That the prosecution could not prove his guilt doesn't mean the killing was justified. He stalked and killed a young boy. He will continue to kill. And I have no doubt he has already spawned gun nuts to go hunting for their very own black male.

Curl up in a ball? That is a completely delusional comment. The only reason Z found trouble that night is he went looking for it. He killed for no reason. Trayvon was walking home from the store. That is not a justified use of a weapon.
I'm not going to wind up in a jam like that because I'm not a paranoid lunatic. Normal people don't act like vigilantes. That is what killers do. Zimmerman got away with murder. That doesn't mean he is any less a killer or that the killing was justified. It clearly was not. Murder is evil. I hope he and every last gun nut killer like him rots in hell.

You say you want civil conversation and then support a murderer who kills innocent children? You show no concern about the lives of his victims and worry only about the killer? What kind of person are you?

[BainsBane]

79. This has been the single most repulsive conversation

of my entire life. I will not be responding to your posts in the future, and I ask you to do the same.

[BainsBane]

82. Concern for murder victims is hyper emotional silliness

That is humanity, just basic humanity.

Yes, I have lived a fortunate life in that I do not know killers or those who privilege killers above law abiding teenagers minding their own business. I would bet most people don't know anyone like that. Most of those people are in prison where they belong.

[Blackford]

9. More than that, under the standards set by gun owners, he's a RESPONSIBLE gun owner.

He's never used a gunh illegally and more important, he used a gun in self defense legally sanctioned by the state.

That makes George Zimmerman a RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER.

And gun nuts wonder why that "responsible gun owner" bullshit is just that, bullshit.

[Hoyt]

12. Exactly, look at the posts above by the gungeoneers.

[geek tragedy]

64. They're truly puzzled why people are aghast that Zimmerman can take a concealed gun

and follow young black men in 38 different states.

[DanTex]

15. Not only that, he was a star student in the self-defense law course.

He was well versed in the whole ideology of walking around with a loaded gun. He's not just any old responsible gun owner, he's almost the platonic ideal of responsible gun ownership.

[rrneck]

13. Nope.

We just couldn't prove he was a irresponsible gun owner.

[Hoyt]

17. You have to be kidding. Sadly, I know you aren't.

[rrneck]

25. Of course I'm not kidding.

I'm serious about the rule of law. You're serious about your own prejudices. The latter is the real tragedy.

[Hoyt]

38. Better than bigots with guns. And, yes, I'm bigoted against gun nuts, and their racism.

So no need to respond with that BS.

[rrneck]

42. So you have detected the fragrant piquant of your bigotry...

That's fine.

"And, yes, I'm bigoted against gun nuts, and their racism."

[Tuesday Afternoon]

47. farts are funny ...

his bigotry ... not so much.

[rrneck]

49. Yep. And the stink gets on all of us. nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

18. "dicto simpliciter"

Just sayin'...

[bvar22]

20. The Biggest of ALL Logical Fallacies.

AS much as you would like to tar All Law Abiding Gun Owners with the Zimmerman Brush,
the dictates of Logic prevent that.

*Zimmerman is a Cold Blooded Stalking Murderer of Unarmed Black Children

*Zimmerman is a Law Abiding Gun Owner.

*Therefore, Law Abiding Gun Owners are Cold Blooded Stalking Murderer of Unarmed Black Children.

You CAN see the problem with this type of thinking?
Can't you?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

48. ^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ ^^^

[nebenaube]

54. Yes, I can...

Now chain those and many other inferences together, add an weighted coefficient for each element and you might be treading into a state secrets zone...

[BainsBane]

63. They are 505 CCW holders like him

and soon to be many more.

[Generic Other]

24. Would you want him living next door?

Visiting your wife after you are gone to work twenty times because she was a crime victim? Ordering you out of the community pool to prove you belonged there, calling 911 on the landlord, the pizza delivery guy, kids in the street, open garage doors, black roofers, anyone black. He's a menace. Like having a loose rottweiller patrol the property.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

27. If anything, they want GZ to have a gun now more than ever.

[Grassy Knoll]

29. What the heck is a Gungeon??

[Decoy of Fenris]

33. It's where us RKBA folks/Gun Trolls/Gun Nuts hang out.

You should swing past some time, have yourself a coolada and waffles

[Tuesday Afternoon]

39. please do not feed into it. I know you are trying to take the sting out of the terminology

and "own" the words but, really it is not helping and only serves to further confuse other DUers.

Do you understand what I am saying here.

but, Yes, do make new DUers feel welcome to any DU Group.

Thank you for understanding.

[Decoy of Fenris]

45. Isn't that the goal of a rebranding of a term?

I understand your point, but I cannot agree with it, brother. I will try to refrain from confusing the newbies, at any rate, for what little that may be worth.


ON EDIT: Wait a minute, he's been here longer than I have. o.O

[Tuesday Afternoon]

46. yes, but other DUers are reading and learning. and I understand about rebranding

the most famous word I can think of starts with N ... but, that still does not make it right.

And it is still nasty to be called those words just like it is nasty to be called the N word.

Please, I know we have to use humor in there a lot to deflect all the bigotry but, at some point,

it just is getting ridiculous.

Today is not the day, I think.

It is just too serious and emotions are running way too high.

[Decoy of Fenris]

50. Eh, granted for civility's sake, with a caveat:

I genuinely consider myself, and those I shoot with, gun nuts. We tag each other with the name, and we refer to ourselves thusly. It's as second-nature to me as calling myself Russian or American. I'm not just trying to make a point, but it's how I identify.

However, I suppose I could change that, at least for a few days, or try to stay out of the gun issue in GD for a bit, as a courtesy.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

51. I understand -

when you are among friends it is fine but, on here, you must remember that you are a minority and as such you are held to a higher standard.

We have to be twice as nice and do twice as much to get half the respect, you understand what I am saying here.

[Decoy of Fenris]

52. Aye. I do try to keep it civil.

In the middle of a halfway-decent dialogue with Hoyt, of all people. However, if you would prefer, would you rather bring this to PM, seeing as we're essentially talking at one another?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

53. that is fine, but Please do not call frequent posters in that group -

TROLLS. I beg of you. That word has a connotation that can get one PPR'd around here. It is not cute or funny and has dangerous implications on this board.

[SunSeeker]

36. There are two gun-related groups on DU. Only one of them is the gungeon.

It is the "RKBA" (right to keep and bear arms) group; guess the nickname comes from the contraction of "gun dungeon." It's for folks who love their guns and are against most forms of gun control.

They are not to be confused with the relatively newly formed "Gun Control Reform Activism" group, who favors gun control.

[Grassy Knoll]

43. Thanks, Had no clue.

[BainsBane]

65. The gungeon is an eye opener

You should take advantage of Decoy of Ferris's offer and check it out sometime.
A recent thread extolled the virtues of a speech by a gun proponent chastising the families of the Sandyhook victims and proclaiming "My rights trump your dead."

Whatever image you have in your head about gun nuts can't compare to reality.

[Baitball Blogger]

30. I bet we haven't heard the last of him.

People like him never stay on the straight and narrow.

[NealK]

31. The more things change...

Sorry for this to be so macabre but that's what it was: A lynching, with a gun. That guy is a racist scumbag

[Hoyt]

41. +1. Very good portrayal . . . . . . of a disgusting event.

[NealK]

83. Thanks.

I wasn't sure if I should post it.

[Taft_Bathtub]

40. Absolutely.

When laws allow for murder, being law-abiding doesn't mean much.

[AndyA]

55. Zimmerman is an abuser.

He had a restraining order against him for beating around on a woman. He also hit a cop. Can you say anger management problem? This guy absolutely should not be permitted to possess a gun!

[SoCalMusicLover]

58. I'm White

I think I'm good.

[aikoaiko]

68. That 'innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law thing' can be inconvenient.

This trial showed Zimmerman to be reckless and dangerous when he confronted Martin and reports of his previous bad behavior is also very troublesome, but he has not been proven to be a law breaker in court yet.

[geek tragedy]

74. reckless and dangerous and lethal isn't enough to keep him from owning a gun. nt

[aikoaiko]

76. Yes, that is true. That is the nature of due process and law.

although it may be enough to pull a CCW permit depending on FL law.

[The Straight Story]

77. And Obama is a law abiding drone owner. What's the point? You want to remove guns?

Because of what less than 1% do with them? You want to change the laws to make you feel better?

[BainsBane]

80. His apologists show just how dangerous

these so-called law abiding gun owners are. There is nothing more dangerous that someone who believes himself ENTITLED to kill.