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cali

(114,904 posts)
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 10:53 AM Jul 2013

How Eric Holder Facilitated the Most Unjust Presidential Pardon in American History

Marc Rich, the man who got away with it, died last week, and I would be remiss if I let his death pass without comment. Rich became internationally notorious in 2001, when, as a fugitive from justice, he was pardoned by Bill Clinton in the last hours of his administration. What many don’t recall is that Attorney General Eric Holder, who was then a deputy attorney general, was instrumental in securing Rich’s pardon.

Rich was a pioneering commodities trader who made billions dealing in oil and other goods. He had a habit of dealing with nations with which trade was embargoed, like Iran, Libya, Cuba, and apartheid South Africa. Rich also had a habit of not paying his taxes, to the point where one observer said that “Marc Rich is to asset concealment what Babe Ruth was to baseball.” The United States indicted Rich in 1983, hitting him with charges—tax evasion, wire fraud, racketeering, trading with the enemy—that could’ve brought life in prison. Rich fled the country.

<snip>

Finally, in 2000, he saw some return on his efforts. Eric Holder was the key man. As deputy AG, Holder was in charge of advising the president on the merits of various petitions for pardon. Jack Quinn, a lawyer for Rich, approached Holder about clemency for his client. Quinn was a confidant of Al Gore, then a candidate for president; Holder had ambitions of being named attorney general in a Gore administration. A report from the House Committee on Government Reform on the Rich debacle later concluded that Holder must have decided that cooperating in the Rich matter could pay dividends later on.

<snip>

The excuses are weak. In the words of the committee report, “it is difficult to believe that Holder’s judgment would be so monumentally poor that he could not understand how he was being manipulated by Jack Quinn.” And presidential pardons don’t just slip through like this, especially not pardons of wanted fugitives. If Holder had followed protocols and made sure the Justice Department was looped in, there’s no way that Rich would have been pardoned. Hundreds of thousands of men sit in American prisons doing unconscionably long sentences for nonviolent drug offenses. DNA tests routinely turn up cases of unjust convictions. But Marc Rich bought his pardon with money and access, and the committee’s response to that purchase is worth quoting in full:

<snip>

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/07/02/marc_rich_presidential_pardon_how_eric_holder_facilitated_the_most_unjust.html

42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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How Eric Holder Facilitated the Most Unjust Presidential Pardon in American History (Original Post) cali Jul 2013 OP
Corruption to the Nth degree Demeter Jul 2013 #1
I think Holder needs to go. AndyA Jul 2013 #2
I think Clapper and Bernanke need to go but there is no chance. And here comes Comey. rhett o rick Jul 2013 #34
And people are hoping that this guy will bring civil rights charge against Zimmerman tularetom Jul 2013 #3
He started out corrupt, covering for Chiquitas murder of thousands of workers Catherina Jul 2013 #12
This alone should be reason enough for Holder not be head of the DOJ think Jul 2013 #32
I totally agree. NealK Jul 2013 #26
"Since then, Bill Clinton hasn’t stopped apologizing for the pardons of Marc Rich and Pincus Green" ProSense Jul 2013 #4
yes, of course, but this article is about Eric Holder's role in that pardon cali Jul 2013 #6
Who ProSense Jul 2013 #8
There are indisputable facts in this piece cali Jul 2013 #14
And we wonder why no banksters get investigated, much less charged. Fuddnik Jul 2013 #17
We shouldn't. Holder told us straight out: cali Jul 2013 #21
He also facilitated the dismissal of the conviction against Republican Sen. Stevens in Alaska sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #5
Right, ProSense Jul 2013 #7
Holder has no interest in justice when it comes to the Bush administration. OnyxCollie Jul 2013 #18
"It's very doubtful he will have much interest in the case of Trayvon Martin." NealK Jul 2013 #27
Well we know how much Clinton got; I wonder how much LuvNewcastle Jul 2013 #9
Law is for little people. n/t L0oniX Jul 2013 #10
+1 The ruling class couldn't care less about what color jersey they wear. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #30
Far too many tend to comprimize ethics in favor of power. Savannahmann Jul 2013 #11
Quel surprise. truebluegreen Jul 2013 #13
k&r for exposure. n/t Laelth Jul 2013 #15
while Leonard Peltier rots in prison G_j Jul 2013 #16
Dragging out marc rich has a very scraping the bottom of the barrel arely staircase Jul 2013 #19
So What is Slate's Reasoning That The Pardon Was Illegimitate? On the Road Jul 2013 #20
how does it go out of its way to avoid the specifics of the case? cali Jul 2013 #23
The Rationale for the Pardon On the Road Jul 2013 #41
Holder is another DLC POS SHRED Jul 2013 #22
And this is why Wall Street chose him to be the Obama Administration's AG. Marr Jul 2013 #24
I yawned at that pardon though hfojvt Jul 2013 #25
Almost all the President's appointments are from the corporate and banking xtraxritical Jul 2013 #28
That is why he is there Deny and Shred Jul 2013 #29
This piece exaggerates Holder's role. Clinton WANTED Rich pardoned for Poppy Bush blm Jul 2013 #31
LOL! Drunken Irishman Jul 2013 #33
yeah, your shrillness is just sooo convincing. cali Jul 2013 #36
What is there to refute? Drunken Irishman Jul 2013 #37
oh for pity's sake read the article- which btw was written less than 2 weeks ago cali Jul 2013 #39
I think he is busying working on the pardons of Bush and the gang. Just sayin. nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #35
Beg to differ, big-time. TMUPPIAH = Poppy's pardon of the Iran-Contra traitors. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #38
Wasn't Holder in grade school when Nixon was pardoned? jmowreader Jul 2013 #40
The names Marc Rich, Ted Stevens, and Don indepat Jul 2013 #42
 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
1. Corruption to the Nth degree
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 10:55 AM
Jul 2013

So, Holder's got hidden talents...must be true, because Gawd knows he hasn't done anything for the US.

AndyA

(16,993 posts)
2. I think Holder needs to go.
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 10:56 AM
Jul 2013

I don't think he should have ever been made the Attorney General. He did nothing about the Wall Street tragedy, which impacted most Americans, and many are still trying to crawl out from under the rubble the collapse left.

He also did nothing about Bushco--lying to start a war that resulted in the loss of hundreds of thousands of lives seems like it should be against the law.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
34. I think Clapper and Bernanke need to go but there is no chance. And here comes Comey.
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 02:51 PM
Jul 2013

Seems the president loves these revolving door corporatists.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
3. And people are hoping that this guy will bring civil rights charge against Zimmerman
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:00 AM
Jul 2013

That ain't gonna happen.

I always knew Holder was incompetent. Now it seems he is corrupt as well.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
12. He started out corrupt, covering for Chiquitas murder of thousands of workers
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:20 AM
Jul 2013

and paying off the DOJ to let Chiquita off the hook. TPP, the colonial arrogance of bringing down Morales' plane after many decades of looting Latin America, or backing coup d'etats, as in Chiquita's case, that got many more thousands murdered, gee where have we seen Eric Holder before?


...

The choice of Holder reveals a troubling disconnect between a key statement made by the president-elect during the campaign and views held by Holder. This disconnect must be examined in light of the dismal state of US foreign relations.

...

The issue of direct payments to the justice department by offending US corporations is a worrying trend. It is one that has risen sharply under the Bush administration and was first championed by former attorney general John Ashcroft. In lieu of a trial, companies are allowed to pay a fine directly to the justice department. These agreements are readily accepted by companies, as they are cost effective, avoid the stigma of public trial and don't set precedents. None of the money paid goes to affected individuals or communities, which leaves any sense of justice wanting. There is also valid concern that abuse of this system may lead to companies being less scrupulous.

Representing Chiquita, Holder brokered a deal for the banana giant to pay $25m over five years to the justice department. This arrangement was made after Chiquita admitted in 2003 to providing $1.7m over six years to the paramilitary group The United Self Defense Forces of Colombia. This group was listed as a terrorist organisation by the state department. Chiquita also allegedly provided a cache of surplus Nicaraguan army AK-47s through their own transport network. The payments continued unabated for months after Chiquita's admission.

The company claimed the payments were made to protect its workers, but it is unclear who was protected. Colombia's attorney general, Mario Iguaran, roundly rejects Chiquita's excuses. Iguaran believes the payments were made to secure the unimpeded production of bananas and to quell labour unrest. He claims that at least 4,000 people were killed by these paramilitaries. Hundreds of the victims were banana workers and labour organisers. Iguaran wishes to extradite the Chiquita executives responsible for approving the payments and a lawsuit is currently underway representing the families of 173 workers who were killed by the paramilitaries. Holder continues to represent Chiquita in the resulting civil case.

Holder's reaction to the $25m settlement is unacceptable:

If what you want to encourage is voluntary self-disclosure, what message does this send to other companies? Here's a company that voluntarily self-discloses in a national security context, where the company gets treated pretty harshly, (and) then on top of that, you go after individuals who made a really painful decision.


It's not particularly certain what this painful decision was. Chiquita stood to be in a lot more trouble if they didn't come clean given the climate after September 11. The group in question had terrorist status. The paramilitaries were intimidating and murdering workers. If you have to break the law to do business in a region, you simply need not engage in that business. Holder's commentary is difficult to comprehend in light of the facts surrounding this case.

...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2008/nov/25/attornery-general-eric-holder-chiquita


"painful decision" lol. There's more Bush-speak for us.
 

think

(11,641 posts)
32. This alone should be reason enough for Holder not be head of the DOJ
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 02:39 PM
Jul 2013

under a Democratic administration....

IMO

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
4. "Since then, Bill Clinton hasn’t stopped apologizing for the pardons of Marc Rich and Pincus Green"
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:04 AM
Jul 2013
Rich was an active fugitive, a man who had used his money to evade the law, and presidents do not generally pardon people like that. What’s more, the Justice Department opposed the pardon—or would’ve, if it had known about it. But Holder and Quinn did an end-around, bringing the pardon to Clinton directly and avoiding any chance that Justice colleagues might give negative input. As the House Government Reform Committee report later put it, “Holder failed to inform the prosecutors under him that the Rich pardon was under consideration, despite the fact that he was aware of the pardon effort for almost two months before it was granted.”

<...>

Since then, Bill Clinton hasn’t stopped apologizing for the pardons of Marc Rich and Pincus Green. “It was terrible politics. It wasn't worth the damage to my reputation,” he told Newsweek in 2002—and, indeed, speculation was rampant that Rich (and his ex-wife) had bought the pardon by, in part, donating $450,000 to Clinton’s presidential library. Clinton denied that the donations had anything to do with the pardon, instead claiming that he took Holder’s advice on the matter. Holder, for his part, has distanced himself from the pardons as well. As the House Government Reform Committee report put it, he claimed that his support for the pardon “was the result of poor judgment, initially not recognizing the seriousness of the Rich case, and then, by the time that he recognized that the pardon was being considered, being distracted by other matters.”

I'm sure Bill Clinton and Al Gore had something to do with it.


 

cali

(114,904 posts)
6. yes, of course, but this article is about Eric Holder's role in that pardon
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:07 AM
Jul 2013

so your post is irrelevant except insofar as its intended use to obscure and deflect.

And it's rather a failure at that.

I'd ask you what you thought about Holder's role in the pardon of Marc Rich, but I know exactly the type of response you'd post, so I won't bother.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
8. Who
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:14 AM
Jul 2013

"I'd ask you what you thought about Holder's role in the pardon of Marc Rich, but I know exactly the type of response you'd post, so I won't bother."

...gives a shit? This is simply a hit on Holder. The only people interested are those who always hated the man. People with any objectivity don't give a shit about these type of attacks.

At one time, Republicans indicated that they wanted to give Mr. Holder a rough confirmation ride to signal their political viability at a time when Democrats control the White House and both houses of Congress.

But the effort never gained much traction. Senator Patrick J. Leahy, chairman of the Judiciary Committee, noted Monday that his panel had voted to approve the Holder nomination by 17 to 2, with most Republicans voting in favor.

“That strong, bipartisan vote in favor was a statement that members from both sides of the aisle recognize that Mr. Holder has the character, integrity and independence to be Attorney General,” said Mr. Leahy, a Vermont Democrat. “It is a statement that we all want to restore the integrity and competence of the Justice Department and to restore another critical component — the American people’s confidence in federal law enforcement.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/03/us/politics/03holder.html



 

cali

(114,904 posts)
14. There are indisputable facts in this piece
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:27 AM
Jul 2013

you want to characterize it as a hit piece, fine. What facts in it are wrong?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
21. We shouldn't. Holder told us straight out:
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:22 PM
Jul 2013

Attorney General Eric Holder admitted to the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday that banks are simply too big to prosecute.

The Justice Department has not brought a single criminal conviction against a Wall Street executive four years after a financial crisis proven to have been precipitated by fraudulent behavior. On Wednesday, Holder admitted that the vast size of major banks and the structural integration in the economy makes criminal prosecutions basically impossible.

“I am concerned that the size of some of these institutions becomes so large that it does become difficult for us to prosecute them when we are hit with indications that if you do prosecute, if you do bring a criminal charge, it will have a negative impact on the national economy, perhaps even the world economy,” Holder said, according to the Hill. “And I think that is a function of the fact that some of these institutions have become too large.”

<snip>

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/07/holder_banks_too_big_to_prosecute/

He's a real weasel. And man, will this guy reel it in when he goes back to the private sector. He's been a great pal. to corporate interests.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
5. He also facilitated the dismissal of the conviction against Republican Sen. Stevens in Alaska
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:05 AM
Jul 2013

based NOT on guilt or innocence, but on problems with the prosecution. Which may have been true, but when even worse problems with the Prosecution were revealed beyond any doubt, in the Don Siegelman case, Holder chose to ignore the problems.

It's very doubtful he will have much interest in the case of Trayvon Martin. Justice doesn't seem to be his motivation when making judgement calls in his capacity of AG.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
7. Right,
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:09 AM
Jul 2013

"It's very doubtful he will have much interest in the case of Trayvon Martin. Justice doesn't seem to be his motivation when making judgement calls in his capacity of AG."

...Holder has no interest in justice: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022933401

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
18. Holder has no interest in justice when it comes to the Bush administration.
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:01 PM
Jul 2013
Holder Says He Will Not Permit the Criminalization of Policy Differences
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7410267&page=1

As lawmakers call for hearings and debate brews over forming commissions to examine the Bush administration's policies on harsh interrogation techniques, Attorney General Eric Holder confirmed to a House panel that intelligence officials who relied on legal advice from the Bush-era Justice Department would not be prosecuted.

"Those intelligence community officials who acted reasonably and in good faith and in reliance on Department of Justice opinions are not going to be prosecuted,"
he told members of a House Appropriations Subcommittee, reaffirming the White House sentiment. "It would not be fair, in my view, to bring such prosecutions."


Holder: Won't criminalize terror policy disputes
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/8470942

Associated Press Writer= WASHINGTON (AP) — Attorney General Eric Holder left open the possibility Thursday to prosecuting former Bush administration officials but ruled out filing charges merely over disagreements about policy.

"I will not permit the criminalization of policy differences," Holder testified before a House Appropriations subcommittee.

"However, it is my responsibility as attorney general to enforce the law. It is my duty to enforce the law. If I see evidence of wrongdoing I will pursue it to the full extent of the law," he said.


~snip~

"It is certainly the intention of this administration not to play hide and seek, or not to release certain things," said Holder. "It is not our intention to try to advance a political agenda or to try to hide things from the American people."


CIA Exhales: 99 Out of 101 Torture Cases Dropped
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/06/cia-exhales-99-out-of-101-torture-cases-dropped/

This is how one of the darkest chapters in U.S. counterterrorism ends: with practically every instance of suspected CIA torture dodging criminal scrutiny. It’s one of the greatest gifts the Justice Department could have given the CIA as David Petraeus takes over the agency.

Over two years after Attorney General Eric Holder instructed a special prosecutor, John Durham, to “preliminar(ily) review” whether CIA interrogators unlawfully tortured detainees in their custody, Holder announced on Thursday afternoon that he’ll pursue criminal investigations in precisely two out of 101 cases of suspected detainee abuse. Some of them turned out not to have involved CIA officials after all. Both of the cases that move on to a criminal phase involved the “death in custody” of detainees, Holder said.

But just because there’s a further criminal inquiry doesn’t necessarily mean there will be any charges brought against CIA officials involved in those deaths. If Holder’s decision on Thursday doesn’t actually end the Justice Department’s review of torture in CIA facilities, it brings it awfully close, as outgoing CIA Director Leon Panetta noted.

“On this, my last day as Director, I welcome the news that the broader inquiries are behind us,” Panetta wrote to the CIA staff on Thursday. “We are now finally about to close this chapter of our Agency’s history.”


You've mentioned that torture, the war in Iraq, and domestic spying were illegal under the Bush administration. The Attorney General disagrees with you. Such things are merely "policy differences."

You need to drop the hyperbole, put away your irrational hate, and look forward.

NealK

(1,867 posts)
27. "It's very doubtful he will have much interest in the case of Trayvon Martin."
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:42 PM
Jul 2013

I'm afraid that you are correct. He won't do a thing and doesn't care about justice.

LuvNewcastle

(16,846 posts)
9. Well we know how much Clinton got; I wonder how much
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:14 AM
Jul 2013

Holder got paid. We have got to get all these corrupt motherfuckers away from power. Things will never change until we do.

 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
11. Far too many tend to comprimize ethics in favor of power.
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:20 AM
Jul 2013

Those who do so, tend to believe that they are doing a little wrong, in an effort to get more position, to do a greater good. At least, that is how it starts. The problem is that once you have ascended to that greater power position, your core base of ethical morality has been lost along the way. By that time, you are merely accumulating power for the basis of accumulating that power.

Look at those who have achieved the highest offices in the land. Both public and private. A CEO who as a young man/woman starting out may have commented on something unfair to the workers they oversaw. But by the time they have reached the pinnacle, has forgotten those workers that they hoped to help when they got high enough. The soul was lost.

DiFi, lamented often here, started out with good ideals, and good principles. Now, completely swallowed by the love of power that her position has allowed her to accumulate. I could go down the list. Find the writings, comments, and speeches of those who are in power now, and see how they rule when they reach the top. Power does indeed corrupt, that is beyond the need to debate. But I am now nearly convinced that the pursuit of that power corrupts as badly as the power does.

The series Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy comes to mind. Douglas Adams wrote that the Galactic theory on the Presidential Power was fairly simple. Anyone who wanted the power of the Presidency was certainly someone that you would not want to have that power. The message is obvious, and needs no explanation from me.

We can sit here, armchair executives, and talk about what we would do in that position. I started a thread on that very question. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023141443

But again, we could not go from where we are, jobs, families, whatever, to that pinnacle. By the time we reached it, we would be unrecognizable from who we are now.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
13. Quel surprise.
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:25 AM
Jul 2013

Holder is and has been a disaster at DoJ. I was hugely disappointed with his appointment and even more that he didn't leave after the first term.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
19. Dragging out marc rich has a very scraping the bottom of the barrel
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:04 PM
Jul 2013

for anything remotely anti-obama feel to it. pretty funny and very obvious.

On the Road

(20,783 posts)
20. So What is Slate's Reasoning That The Pardon Was Illegimitate?
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:12 PM
Jul 2013

There was a lot of information on this in the press at the time, but the article seems to go out of its way to avoid the specifics of the case.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
23. how does it go out of its way to avoid the specifics of the case?
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:24 PM
Jul 2013

What specifics are left out? And btw, this pardon was roundly condemned at the time. Defended by practically no one. Everyone saw it for what it was. This article is simply about Holder's role in it.

On the Road

(20,783 posts)
41. The Rationale for the Pardon
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 06:30 PM
Jul 2013

is that Rich left the US to avoid prosecution by the IRS over a specific tax case. I believe it concerned the definition of which international income is considered taxable under US law. I was hoping the article would elaborate, since it's been a while.

Rich's partner chose to remain in the US and defend himself. That defense was successful, meaning that Rich fled the US for tax practices that turned out to be legal.

That is the part of the issue that IMO should have been discussed when referring to the pardon as the most unjust in American history.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
24. And this is why Wall Street chose him to be the Obama Administration's AG.
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:28 PM
Jul 2013

We tend to watch these people after they've attained key positions and marvel at how quickly they sell out, but the fact is, most of them are only appointed because they've long since proven their willingness to... bend. For the right people.

There are exceptions, but they're symbolic appointments in seats with no real influence.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
25. I yawned at that pardon though
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:31 PM
Jul 2013

Rich had already escaped justice by the fact that Switzerland would not extradite him. So the pardon did not really change much.

 

xtraxritical

(3,576 posts)
28. Almost all the President's appointments are from the corporate and banking
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:59 PM
Jul 2013

elite. He's doing his best to hand 2014 to Republicans too.

Deny and Shred

(1,061 posts)
29. That is why he is there
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 02:10 PM
Jul 2013

What you call criminal, they see as a resume builder. Had he never proved that he was so capable, he would never be AG. By capable, I mean someone who won't let their principles or protocols dissuade them from protecting the 1%. They would never allow someone they weren't sure of into that position. Their apple cart may one day be upset, by not by appopintees.

blm

(113,061 posts)
31. This piece exaggerates Holder's role. Clinton WANTED Rich pardoned for Poppy Bush
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 02:27 PM
Jul 2013

and with Janet Reno gone, Holder was tasked with pushing it through.

Clinton, by then, was protecting Poppy Bush on all his operations - IranContra, BCCI, CIA drug running. Marc Rich was a named figure in both IranContra and BCCI. No surprise that Clinton wanted him pardoned for his close ally - GHWBush.

Amazes me that some of you haven't figured out WHY Jackson Stephens bankrolled Clinton's primary campaign when Bush succeeded in pushing the release of the BCCI report to Dec 1992.

Jackson Stephens was also a named figure in both IranContra and BCCI. In fact, he brought BCCI to the United States for his longtime friend, GHWBush.

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
33. LOL!
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 02:43 PM
Jul 2013

Oh wait...you're serious?

Did I travel back to 2001 or something? So, now Rich is Holder's fault? Let me guess, we'll even go back further and try to blame Lewinsky on Holder next!

You've really lost it.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
36. yeah, your shrillness is just sooo convincing.
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 04:20 PM
Jul 2013

I didn't write this. and you sure as shit didn't refute one thing in it. Not one. and yes, the article certainly is relevant. It speaks to Holder's character.

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
37. What is there to refute?
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 04:29 PM
Jul 2013

It's a story that is older than this forum. How is it relevant? Why is Holder getting the blame when it was Clinton who pardoned him? Seriously, get help, cali. I'm worried about you. For real. I think you've gone off the deep end and it's unnerving.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
39. oh for pity's sake read the article- which btw was written less than 2 weeks ago
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 05:16 PM
Jul 2013

And no, I don't need "help", honeypie. Pathetic.

indepat

(20,899 posts)
42. The names Marc Rich, Ted Stevens, and Don
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 10:22 PM
Jul 2013

Siegleman should be permanently etched in our minds as reminders that equal justice under the law must prevail if a democratic society is to flourish.

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