About Zimmerman having immunity from civil suits because of Florida's Stand Your Ground law:

[Are_grits_groceries]

@danabrams:
To those asking about stand your ground immunity from civil suits in #zimmerman, remember he waived SYG hearing and argued self defense

Doesn't apply to Z.

[JustAnotherGen]

1. So does that mean

A civil action around stand your ground can be pursued?

[hlthe2b]

3. It means a civil suit for wrongful death can proceed. SYG is immaterial.

[Are_grits_groceries]

4. No.

The Martin family can pursue a civil suit because Zimmerman didn't use a SYG defense.
Under the SYG law, he would have had immunity from prosecution in a civil suit.

[bigdarryl]

5. That law is CRAZY!!!! as hell

You know that Stand your ground law was though of by rethugs

[Are_grits_groceries]

7. That is not the purpose of this thread.

I agree with you on that, but this OP addresses whether Zimmerman has immunity from civil suits.

[FarPoint]

2. This time....with any future civil suit, we need some brilliant lawyers this time .

Hope there will be a fundraiser to pay for the civil suit.

[Chan790]

11. Burden of proof is lower in a civil suit too.

One of the main roadblocks in the criminal suit was that there was too much that could never be known either way for this jury. Nobody knows...except Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin...and Trayvon is dead.

I know Zimmerman murdered him with some degree of certainty. I know what Zimmerman's motivations were. I know that Martin's were. All based on the testimony in court. Ask me to tell you exactly what happened beyond any reasonable doubt and it all falls apart. When we hear from the jurors...and we almost certainly will...I expect to hear that they were all "pretty sure" but could not reach the burden required of them.

The burden of proof in a civil suit isn't "reasonable doubt" though...it's a mere "preponderance of the evidence", the difference between knowing what occurred and being pretty sure of what occurred.

[FarPoint]

12. What if Zimmy leaves the country?

Does it end there?

[Jim Lane]

17. No. There are procedures for serving process on someone abroad.

It can be a fair amount of hassle but it's doable. I haven't done it in years -- my vague recollection is that the Martin family would file the complaint, go through some paperwork in the court where the case is filed, then transmit the appropriate documents to the federal government (specifically, the U.S. Department of State). It then gets transmitted to the foreign government as the prerequisite to whatever hassle you have to go through there.

All this applies to those countries that regard service of process within their territory, even in a civil case, to be a governmental function and therefore one that must be done through the government. I think that some countries don't take this attitude. If Zimmerman ends up in one of those countries, then the plaintiffs don't need to involve the State Department. They just find someone who can walk up to Zimmerman and hand him the papers, then do an affidavit of service for the U.S. court.

If the defendant (Zimmerman in this hypothetical case) is properly served, then the U.S. court can go ahead and hear the case and render a judgment, even if the defendant never appears or answers the complaint. As a general rule, a judgment rendered in one country can be executed on in another. Nevertheless, if Zimmerman has fled the country and has taken all his assets with him, then the Martin family might have the practical problem of finding the assets and enforcing the judgment.

[FarPoint]

19. Thank you so much for the information.

It's an uphill battle for sure....I don't think the Martin family and supporters will mind much though. Maybe equate this endeavour to that of the Nazi hunters....to the ends of the earth type of mission.

[Justice]

6. I don't know that Dan is correct

I understand there are 2 components to stand your ground - procedural and substantive.

By waiving the hearing, Zimmerman waived the procedural, the hearing - but he did not waive the substantive, which was immunity.

Zimmerman did not want the judge to determine SYG, he wanted the jury to hear self defense.

[Are_grits_groceries]

9. Can't have both.

Either use SYG as your defense or self-defense.

Once SYG was waived, that law doesn't apply. You can't argue under one law and then switch to the other because now you want it to apply.

[hack89]

10. Z can request an immunity hearing for a civil suit.

he did not waive it for perpetuity.

[onenote]

18. Have a link for that proposition?

[unblock]

8. imho, nothing in the criminal proceeding officially gave him immunity from civil suit

his assertion of self-defense strongly suggests that he would argue that he is immune, but that argument would have to be presented pursuant to a civil trial.

[cprise]

13. Doesn't address the fact he is a manace to society. n/t

[DainBramaged]

14. Well done thank you

[JVS]

15. O'Mara said in last night's press conference that they would seek and get that immunity

[dairydog91]

16. Umm, you are welcome to actually read the statute in question.

776.032 immunizes anyone who successfully argues a justified force defense under a variety of Florida statutes that lay out when defendants may use a justifiable force defense. While we'd have to see the jury verdict, I don't know what other grounds the jury would have used to find Zimmerman not guilty. If the jury found that Zimmerman used justified force, it looks like 776.032 should immunize him.

A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer...

[msanthrope]

20. Um...you need to know the law. Since Zimmy didn't have a Peterson hearing, he can't claim immunity

as a matter of law.

Once the filed suit proceeds, his attorney may request such a hearing. But of course...this means Zimmy testifying. And I suspect Zim isn't going to want to do that with a federal case hanging above his head.

[rpiazza72]

21. Immunity isn't Lost

I was wondering about this an found this quote from someone on his defense team “By entertaining the option of not having an immunity hearing before trial, George preserves the option of having a civil immunity hearing should he need it in the future,” Sean Vincent, a spokesperson for Zimmerman’s defense team, told NBC in March.

[geTaylor]

22. Let's talk about the Law: Fla. Statutes Title XLVI Chp.776 Sec.776.032

Title XLVI
CRIMES

Chapter 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

776.032?Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1)?A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2)?A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3)?The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
History.—s. 4, ch. 2005-27.

[link:http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.032.html|

This civil trial will be affected by the SYG law in ways that make it less likely that a civil suit will even be filed. Specifically, subsection (3) requires ("shall award&quot the court to have the plaintiff pay all of the defendants attorney’s fees, court costs, lost income and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any such civil action if the court finds that Mr. Martin's death was caused by the "justifiable use of force" as defined in sections 776.012, 776.013, or 776.031. While it is true that the burden of proof is lower in a civil suit, it is lower for both sides, and consequently it would appear that Zimmerman only needs to meet a "51%" burden that he was justified under the circumstances in using deadly force. There does not seem to be a time for such a finding in this section and it may be prescribed in another part of Florida law.

Whoever is collecting to pay for the civil suit will have to calculate that the Martins may be liable to pay a large amount should they fail to keep proof of a "justifiable use of force" below 51%. Sometimes defendants, often called "respondents" in civil cases, will offer to settle for an amount that is lower than the minimum cost for defending against the claim. It seems that Mr. O'Mara is intent on making use of the leverage provided by 776.032(3).

For the reasons set forth above, I think the likelihood of a civil suit is less than 50%.

[Responses to this citing your personal feelings of right and wrong, injustice, or the need to live in a different world are of no value in this type of analysis. Save it for the appellate briefs if you have nothing else to argue. But be prepared to add the respondent's appellate costs to the plaintiff's expenses if the plaintiff ultimately loses.]