Stand Your Ground With Trayvon -- Tourism Boycott of Florida

[ignatzmouse]

The only thing that will compel Florida to rid themselves of their murderous, racist Stand Your Ground law, is a tourism boycott. That includes Disneyworld, their beaches, and their theme parks. It is their economy. The threat of economic boycotts have led Southern States to remove Confederate emblems from their state flags. You want to effect change in Florida, boycott their tourism, stick with it, and stand your ground.

[Ecumenist]

1. I TOTALLY agree with this because it's the one thing they understand. MONEY

I have family there and my maternal grandmother was MIKOSUKEE,paternal was Seminole. Hell, I'm boycotting so much that you couldn't get me to fly the fuck over the state. STARVE THEM UNTIL THEY CHANGE THAT FUCKED UP "LAW"!

[CTyankee]

2. Absolutely! This has to happen.

Personally, I would never live/vacation in FL so it is easy for me. But good Americans can and should stand up for what is right and participate in the economic boycott. Disney would certainly get the message.

[Cronus Protagonist]

23. When the state fills up with brown shirted people wearing their logos...

(I think a brown shirt is the best thing to put your patch on...)


The Zimmerman Zupporters

[Horse with no Name]

85. Good. Let them shoot each other.

Darwinism at its finest hour.

[Zoeisright]

146. Even more reason to stay away.

[Travis_0004]

4. Stand your ground was not used as a defense in this case

[Hoyt]

32. It damn sure was in the background, and is the way Florida defines self-defense.

Look beyond the front sight of your gun.

[vaberella]

40. You're wrong. It was used in the judges instruction.

As Stand Your Ground is used in every single self-defense case that happens outside the home in Florida, it's part of the law. It was clearly stated.

[Travis_0004]

45. No. Self defense was in the jury instructions.

Self defense has been legal long before stand your ground laws.

Even in states without stand your ground laws, self defense is still legal.

[DainBramaged]

65. So you believe Zimmerman was defending himself from a bag of Skittles?

We see you.


We see you.

[Travis_0004]

66. Who threw the first punch?

Was it Zimmerman, was it Martin? I don't know. I'm guessing you don't either.

The fact is, if Martin jumped Zimmerman, he had the right do defend himself.

I'm not saying thats what happened, but the prosecution never proved that is NOT what happened, therefore there is reasonable doubt.

I think Zimmerman is not guilty, I don't think he is innocent. There is a difference.

[DainBramaged]

68. We see you

have a nice day.

[mzmolly]

90. It is legal to murder someone

for punching you?

[mzmolly]

88. As was stand your

ground.

[vaberella]

103. Yes, by the judge.

But stand your ground was used in the case.

[ShadowLiberal]

70. Without Stand Your Ground this case would have NEVER gotten any national headlines

Stand your ground might not have been used, but it's still the whole reason why the case got all the media attention in the first place.

Stand your ground required police to take Zimmerman's word and not arrest him the day of the murder. Without stand your ground the police would have likely at least arrested him for manslaughter within a couple of days of the murder. And there'd probably be no media attention, even after a not guilty verdict.

But they didn't, it took over 6 weeks for an arrest, and lots of media attention and protests.

No one outside of Trayvon Martin's family would have even cared about this case and the not guilty verdict if it weren't for Stand Your Ground creating a PR nightmare.

George Zimmerman himself was even victimized by Stand Your Ground, and the bad PR it gave him. Now he's always going to be known as a racist and a murderer to a large number of people no matter what a jury said. It's probably too dangerous for him to live in Florida to.

[KG]

5. boycotting won't do shit except hurt working people who had nothing to do with the trial.

[HiPointDem]

11. wah wah maybe they should change their racist law

[KG]

17. oh, an ignorant, hateful reply. how quaint.

[HiPointDem]

19. hateful? that's ironic under the circumstances

[Dustlawyer]

78. I represent a lot of Floridians for the oil spill. Many are Democrats who are still waiting after 3

years for justice. No one came down in 2010, and few in 2011. This year is returning close to normal, but now some think its cute to blanket boycott these people for Rick Scott and his R cronies, sad. You cannot think of anything better?

[Katashi_itto]

126. Yes, spending in states where the people are actually represented.

When the money dries up, that's usually when you get change.

[DirkGently]

131. Then why are the poorest states the reddest ones?

Florida's tourist areas are the most liberal. Miami, Orlando. Sanford is a backwater.

[Katashi_itto]

133. Absolutely right. I live in New Orleans it literally supports Lousiana.

However the red state of LA. constantly pillages the liberal NOLA's coffers to promote it's right wing agenda. The right wing govt absolutely hates New Orleans.

[Katashi_itto]

59. You've convinced me. I'm up for boycotting after your searing profundity

Nice thing is I go often to FL for diving.

I can find other places in the gulf, it's not a big deal.

It won't be noticed, but I will do my bit

[FBaggins]

89. Ask him if you should boycott NC as well.

All the awful things going on here. I'm sure that he'll agree with painting the entire state with that broad brush too.

[Katashi_itto]

123. Guess they need to change the political structure then.

Until then if it's a teabagger state yep. I can spend elsewhere. They obviously don't need my money that bad.

[AsahinaKimi]

114. Hey! come out to California

We actually have some nice beaches here.. like Santa Barbara, Ventura.. As for me..I have been to Florida once, it was enough for me, for one life time. I had a friend who is from Thailand. She lived in Florida for 5 years and hated it. Why? The people were always putting her down as an Asian. Her words, not mine.

[Katashi_itto]

122. Cool! I will do that

[DirkGently]

132. That's a cheap shot AK. Floridians hate Asians?

You're better than that.

[AsahinaKimi]

135. I NEVER SAID THAT ....

I SAID...and I will REPEAT, that my friend from THAILAND hated her 5 years in Florida. She SAID...AGAIN....SHE SAID... that she felt she was always being put down as an Asian. **Do WE UNDERSTAND NOW? **

[DirkGently]

137. And you repeated it like it had some bearing. It does not.

Florida has a huge Asian population, largely Vietnamese, and a thriving Asian community. Your friend was wrong.

[AsahinaKimi]

138. And that is your opinion.

I am telling you what She said ...and she is my friend. I WON'T be calling her a liar. It was HER experience. [b ] NOT MINE. I have only ever faced race Hatred on the internet. I suppose I am lucky.

[DirkGently]

140. The implication Florida is racist in general is what you communicated

in this senseless, Florida-bashing thread. I understand it's an anecdote, but you know what, something horrible and racist happened in California a few times too, I think. There's no case to be made an entire state is better or worse somehow.

Edit: If you're not participating in the "boycott," come over some time, and we'll take you on a tour of Orlando's "Little Vietnam," with all the amazing shops and restaurants.

[AsahinaKimi]

141. Hey...I am the first to admit

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is one major racist county! It has become even worse since I was a kid. NO PLACE is safe. Its the New Normal I guess. As for little Vietnam, San Francisco has little Hanoi here in the city. I love Vietnamese food! I visit often along with Chinatown and Japantown. I love Asian food... but than I also love Mexican food... and Italian... and no city has more ethnic Restaurants like San Francisco! (Maybe NYC has as many.. )

[cigsandcoffee]

158. California is where the cops who beat Rodney King were set free, no?

It took the Feds to sort out that one for them.

[Travis_0004]

27. You realize self defense is legal in all 50 states, and has always been that way.

[HiPointDem]

28. unless of course you're defending yourself from a stalker with a gun

in which case you deserve to get shot because the armed stalker was skeered cause you had the much more dangerous -- sidewalk!!!!!

what an orwellian bunch of crap.

[Boom Sound 416]

44. Orwellian?

Maybe if their was a camera in the sidewalk

[HiPointDem]

145. orwellian. war = peace, murder = self-defense

[Boom Sound 416]

166. That's kinda interesting idea

[Civilization2]

49. +1

[WinkyDink]

51. Sure, but this jury didn't have to believe Z's claim of it. I mean, what ELSE was he going to say?

[Agschmid]

96. That was a ridiculous reply.. Just FYI

[DirkGently]

134. Which racist law would that be, genius?

Let's compare your state's self-defense statute to the one used in this case.

[WinkyDink]

50. You know, we hear variations of this all the time. "Don't tax the wealthy; you'll hurt the poor guys

who build the yachts."

[PADemD]

6. I've vacationed in Florida twice in my life, both times at Disney World.

Hell would freeze over before I set foot in Florida again.

[emsimon33]

170. Disneyland in California is much better anyway.

[In_The_Wind]

7. Florida fucked up! I won't go there again until something changes.

[FBaggins]

8. The people of Florida charged him with murder

Six people found him not guilty.

[HiPointDem]

9. the 'people' only charged him after being forced to. so fuck florida.

[FBaggins]

14. After being forced to....

...BY the people of Florida.

[HiPointDem]

15. no, actually, by the people of the nation.

[FBaggins]

26. You don't get to make up your own facts

Politicians respond to the opinions of the people they represent.

PPP polling at the time showed 2-1 wanted him charged with murder.

[HiPointDem]

29. just go away baggins; the campaign was NATIONAL & florida was forced into it because it WAS

NATIONAL.

i can't stand to read another word from people like you.

disgusting

ignore is for fake democrats

[FBaggins]

31. Grow up

You're irrationally reading motivation into what others are saying... and what an entire group of people believes.

Which is ironically similar to what GZ did that night.

Think about it.

[Crunchy Frog]

80. Calm down.

Nobody's pointing a gun at you and blowing you away, just expressing an opinion on a message board. Jeez, get a little perspective.

[FBaggins]

87. What gave you the impression that I wasn't calm?

I'm not the one getting outraged at anyone who doesn't see things the same way I do.

I'm the one saying we shouldn't make the same errors that GZ made... judging an entire group of people add all being the same

The irony is that HPD lives right down the highway from me... and I know he gets upset when other DUers blame everyone in our state (NC) for the cr@p that's gone on here recently... when so many of us have fought against it. But in his rage he's blinded when he's doing it to others.

[avebury]

21. Which is not the same as finding him innocent or that

he fired in self defense.

[MrSlayer]

10. I'm sorry.

But if I have to avoid visiting every place where an injustice has been done then there isn't a single location on the planet I can go.

Mickey Mouse didn't kill anyone nor did he acquit anyone that did.

And there isn't anything that's going to make those idiots change their laws outside of electing sane people. And there isn't a whole lot of hope for that. It's Florida.

[bluestate10]

20. Florida has very large Latino, Haitian, and Black populations that are thinly registered.

The key to change is to get unregistered voters registered and voting in all elections. The right will try their own registration drives, but the fact is, the population of haters is pretty much 100% registered and voting now.

[vaberella]

41. But most of whom live in Miami. And I can say it's hard to get Haitians to vote. n/t

[handmade34]

12. NO...

there are still many good people that live in Florida and what we need to do is support the good and help them make changes...

[BainsBane]

13. Why not rally around gun control instead?

rather than boycotting the state of Florida? Press state legislatures to repeal SYG laws, and work at the federal and state level for reforms like expanded background checks and limits on magazine sizes.

One issue germane to this case is felon disenfranchisement. One reason that juries have such low representation of African-Americans is that in many states anyone convicted of a felony, as sadly too many black males are, loses his civic participation for the rest of his life. That includes voting and the ability to serve on juries.

[LuvNewcastle]

24. Felon disenfranchisement is a big problem.

I can understand if a state doesn't allow people who are in jail to vote, although I've heard that some states allow it. But after a person has done his time, his right to vote should be restored. I believe that the right to vote should only be suspended in extreme cases, if at all, and it certainly shouldn't be taken away for life if a person pays his debt to society and is released. Our right to vote is sacred. Taking away that right should be regarded as seriously as taking away someone's life.

[MH1]

34. I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, the people making the rules benefit

when certain classes of people don't vote, and they have rigged the system to exclude as many of those people as possible.

[raccoon]

42. You sure got that right! nt

[BainsBane]

35. I agree completely

In my state of MN, a felon's rights are restored once he or she has served the entire sentence, including parole.

[Agschmid]

99. 2 states felons to vote unrestricted...

Maine and Vermont.

[MH1]

33. The New Jim Crow

A system that "felonizes" minorities at a very high ratio to whites apprehended in similar circumstances; then removes their privileges as citizens for being "felons", so they don't even have any voting power over the people making and implementing the laws that oppress them.

[BainsBane]

37. Absolutely

Our policing and judicial system is at its core fundamentally racist. It isn't sometimes racist. It's practice is based on racism, from sentencing guidelines (crack vs. powder cocaine), the jury system, police, and worst of all, the death penalty.

[MH1]

38. Yes. By the way, there is a book titled "The New Jim Crow"

I bought it but haven't read it yet. It goes into these issues in detail.

http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Crow-Incarceration-Colorblindness/dp/1595586431/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373802818&sr=8-1&keywords=the+new+jim+crow

[BainsBane]

39. Interestingly

Lisa Bloom mentioned this book on MSNBC last night. Thanks for the link! I'll have to check it out.

[Agschmid]

101. This chart shows disenfranchisement in voting by state...

http://felonvoting.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=286

[BainsBane]

157. Thank you

That's useful.

[bluestate10]

16. Forget boycotts. Find groups in Florida that are working to register Black and Latino

voters and contribute money to their efforts. Boycotts are feel good events, but are largely useless tools for affecting change in today's interconnected world. During the past boycotts worked. not now. If the left boycotts Florida, gun nuts and the right will flock there, making that state a hellhole and potentially turning it red. Registering and educating voters in Florida is the best path forward.

[LuvNewcastle]

25. Registering voters is an excellent, positive thing that people can do.

[raccoon]

43. Registering is a good step, how about if another Katherine Harris pulls

them off voters' rosters?

[eilen]

18. This is not an anomaly, this is another crazy verdict made because of the existing laws.

Florida's government needs to make some changes and it's people are the only ones who can do it. If they can't be bothered, boycott actions might motivate them. Unless they enjoy being walking targets of the NRA TeaParty thugs....

[ignatzmouse]

22. Push back against the emboldened tide of racists

The point is that overturning the Stand Your Ground is a step in pushing back against the racist subtext that is pervading and emboldening the southern Right. The point is to avoid complacency and not only stand up to what has transpired in Florida but to also send notice to other states with these racist laws and those considering enacting them and other measures that there are consequences. It is the only thing that I can see that stands a chance at making a difference. I'm sorry there are consequences for people in the state, but if you don't want to risk it, don't put a bunch of clowns in office.

[ChangeUp106]

30. And the conservatives will then flock their in droves

Look at the Chick-Fil-A thing. We stopped going, they held festivals with the Alaskan Moose Hunter the main attraction.

[WinkyDink]

52. So? Nothing's stopping them now.

[aikoaiko]

36. Most states have some version of SYG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law


United States[edit]

Many states have some form of Stand Your Ground law. Alabama,[12] Alaska,[13] Arizona,[14] California,[15][16] Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa,[17] Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana,[14] Maine, Massachusetts,[18] Michigan,[14] Mississippi, Missouri, Montana,[14] New Hampshire,[14] North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma,[14] Pennsylvania ,[19], Rhode Island,[20] South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee,[14] Texas,[21] Utah,[22] West Virginia,[14] and Wyoming have adopted Castle Doctrine statutes, and other states (Iowa,[23] Virginia,[24] and Washington) have considered "Stand Your Ground" laws of their own.[25][26][27]

Some of the states that have passed or are considering "stand your ground" laws already implement "stand your ground" principles in their case law. Indiana and Georgia, among other states, already had "stand your ground" case law and passed "stand your ground" statutes due to possible concerns of the case law being replaced by "duty to retreat" in later court rulings. Other states, including Washington and Virginia, have "stand your ground" in their case law but have not adopted statutes; West Virginia had a long tradition of "stand your ground" in its case law[28] before codifying it as a statute in 2008. These states did not have civil immunity for self-defense in their previous self-defense statutes.

[WinkyDink]

54. Your point? This was not part of the case.

[aikoaiko]

71. My point being that SYG is the law in many states, maybe even the OP's

And you are correct that SYG had nothing to do with this trial.

Which makes boycotting Florida by linking SYG with the Travon Martin case even less compelling.

[MH1]

48. Florida's citizens - those who can vote, anyway - elected the schmucks

who passed the SYG law and signed it into law; who are, or who appointed, the schmucks that didn't prosecute Zimmerman with any semblance of competence or interest in success.

[PADemD]

62. Florida is the state that lets people like George Zimmerman carry a gun.

I will not visit that state.

[The Wizard]

47. Florida Florida Florida

Rigged the 2000 election to hand over the presidency to the Bush crime family. Their governor is the biggest Medicare fraud in history. One of their United States Senators is a slick talking grifter. Put a woman in prison for 20 years because she fired warning shots to fend off an abusive spouse.
The place is a corrupt bag of bigoted swill. Avoid Florida at all costs. In fact, the same can be said for the rest of the Confederate slave States.

[gordianot]

64. I am with you, I avoid the old Confederacy who are increasingly dependant on tourism.

Florida in particular has creeped me out for decades and have not been back in 20 years.

[morningfog]

53. I've been boycotting Florida for over a decade now.

[cyclezealot]

58. We too.

How can you boycott a state that you never intend to visit. we once lived there. I'd never go back.
. Since leaving, we once flew through Miami Airport. I would not even buy a coke in a vending machine. Can't hurt to sign on , I guess.
They can keep their bugs, humidity , Fundies , and Racists. No thanks.

[Pathwalker]

93. My family has, too. We will continue to do so,

especially now.

[Pelican]

55. Nope...

Heading to Universal this fall... good times...

[99Forever]

56. Consider it done.

Been there more times than I can count. Spent money there. Never again. Ever. Not one penny. Not one minute.

[Maineman]

57. You won't catch me in Florida!

Or any of the other stupid ass racist states. And, I am very white.

[hobbit709]

60. The only place in FL I'd want to go to isn't really FL-Key West.

[spicegal]

61. I'm not real crazy about Florida anyway. All the states that have "stand your ground" laws should

be boycotted. But, it will take a lot more then that to do something about our lax gun laws and obscene obsession with guns.

[sorefeet]

63. Zimmerman is going to wish

he got 5 to 15 for man slaughter. Do his time and it's over. He will have to hide forever. He will never have a normal life. His family will suffer and they will never have a normal life ever again. Zimmerman let out that smile of relief and he is going to find out his problems have only begun. And may they be times one hundred.
My parents and a brother live in Florida and I will never see them again, unless they decide to travel north. I have always had a cautious fear of the southern states, mainly because I am a vocal Liberal. Who in the fuck would want to spend a vacation in such a humid, crowded, red state that is full of ignorant, redneck, religious, gun toting zealots. FUCK FLORIDA and Fuck our justice system.

[LiberalEsto]

67. +100!

This is the way to go. Hit them in the pocketbook.

While we're at it, don't visit Texas either.

[Whisp]

69. I hope facebook lights up like Christmas over this

good idea, ignatzmouse.

Let us pray that there are enough angry people to make this work.

Something has to be done.

[KaryninMiami]

72. Really? Is that going to stop hate and racism?

Or will it mean that thousands of workers, many at minimum wage, will loose jobs and hours and make life miserable for their families. How about helping Florida get rid of laws like stand your ground and criminal elected officials like Rick Scott and illegal voting practices and in the memory of Travon, doing something constructive to help make sure this never happens again? Support the groups demanding a new trial such as NAACP and MoveOn. But not visiting Florida because of a group of ignorant, racist jurors, a vigilante who thought he was king and a lousy prosecution will solve nothing.

This verdict does not speak for all Floridians!

[handmade34]

73. +1 n/t

[RedCappedBandit]

86. People don't want to visit dangerous places

Incidents like this make it seem like Florida is a dangerous place, so why would people want to visit?

[KaryninMiami]

110. Please give me and Florida a break

It is not any more dangerous here then most places. What are you basing your statement on?

[Zoeisright]

147. Nope. Not even a little bit.

It certainly is more dangerous than "most places". In addition, your filthy governor prevented local governments from mandating employee sick days, which means anyone is more likely to get food poisoning from sick restaurant employees. Let's see: more guns, more gun deaths, lax laws, shitty regulations - what's not to like? Fuck Florida.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

74. Blacks will be doing this already.

No sane black person would voluntarily go to Fla if they don't already live there.
I'm not black, but I'm too dark to be taken for white by anyone. I have a brother in Texas and my sister and my mom in Georgia.
I'll be obligated to go to Georgia because of my mom. My brother will have to come here, to NJ, though, if he wants to see me. I'm not going south of the Mason-Dixon other than for my mom. Period.

[another_liberal]

75. Great idea!

It is the very least we can do.

[MoonRiver]

76. I've been boycotting that place since Election Theft 2000.

This is just a refresher course on how corrupt and obscene FloriDUH is.

[City Lights]

77. I started my Florida tourism boycott in 2000

when their political crooks helped steal FL for Dubya. Haven't set foot in FL since and don't intend to anytime soon.

[Crunchy Frog]

79. I'm there. Hell will freeze over before I visit that state.

And I really would have liked to take my two young sons to Disney World and to the Florida beaches. We'll just have to find other places to go.

[FarCenter]

81. Tourism is one of the most environmentally damaging industies there is

Huge amounts of fossil fuel and cabon emissions for travel. Lots of land use with highly modified landscapes and high usage of pesticides and herbicides. Lots of energy to operate hotels and attractions.

And it provides no economically useful outcome, just a temporary titilation.

[mountain grammy]

82. When Colorado passed Amendment 2 so many years ago..

(denying rights to gays) a boycott of our state was fairly effective. The law was, of course, ruled unconstitutional, but the boycott woke a lot of people up. I believe that was the beginning of the end for the hatemongers in our state. They're still here, but no longer running the state.
The boycott hurt many of us, but I was in favor of it because it showed people our hate was on display for the whole world to see.

My heart goes out to the Martin family and to all black families who are victims of our racist justice system. "Self defense" is just a new defense for lynch mobs. Zimmerman acted alone, but the whole system is a lynch mob.

To African American communities everywhere: I never expected riots, most of us don't believe the shit the conservative media is selling. We are united in our outrage over this egregious crime, the delay of the prosecution, and the aquittal.

[Honeycombe8]

83. I wouldn't vacation there, anyway. It's muggy and hot. (oops...no pun intended!) nt

[RedCappedBandit]

84. I sure as shit am not going to Florida

I don't need to spend my time in states with such dangerous laws.

[DirkGently]

91. Your state has the same type of law used in this case, genius.

They all do. SYG is horrendous, but didn't come into play here.

Get a hold of yourselves.

Florida is on a progressive swing. That's twice Obama won here, and the I-4 corridor is turning blue.

Florida needs more progressive support, not some nitwit call for a boycott.

[Phentex]

92. Yep!

That sums it up.

I have no idea why people think calling for a boycott is the "smart" thing to do.

[Blackford]

97. FALSE! SYG came into play the night of the murder

It's why Sanford police did not arrest.

[DirkGently]

98. And that changed what, exactly?

[Blackford]

102. It altered how the police handled the investigation from the opening moments

Evidence was compromised. Martin was treated as a suspect by the police rather than as a victim.

Because of SYG, the police completely screwed up the entire case against the murderer.

[DirkGently]

116. That's a pretty tough case to make. The initial investigator

recommended arresting Zimmerman and thought it looked like manslaughter.

[Horse with no Name]

117. yet saw no need to check and see if he was under the influence of any substance....

[DirkGently]

118. Really? You're rolling your little cartoon eyes on the idea Zim was DRUNK?

You think that's what the case turned on? Please, spell out your scenario here.

[Horse with no Name]

124. Trayvon...you might remember him. He was the VICTIM

He was tested for illegal substances.

However...the murderer was not.

You do remember this cute little factoid being used in the character assassination of Trayvon, don't you?

[DirkGently]

130. Has nothing to do with how the case turned out.

Zimmerman wasn't acquitted on the theory Martin was high and he was sober.

The law on self-defense used in this case is the same everywhere. If one person is dead, and one person gets to tell their story, you've got a hard row to hoe convicting the last person standing.

The jury did what any reasonable jury would do given the law and the facts presented here. Manslaughter was a possibility, and I think that would have stood a better chance if the prosecution had focused on those requirements.

[walkerbait41]

94. We were going to the Keys this fall

Not now! We are boycotting Florida and for us that`s the way it`s going to be.

[sadbear]

95. Yes, perhaps Mickey Mouse would then exert some NRA-type pressure on Tallahassee.

[DirkGently]

100. Don't count on it. Disney is ALEC, through & through.

Boycotting the state is moronic.

[sadbear]

105. Then which boycotts are not moronic?

[DirkGently]

106. I wouldn't give Disney my money.

Purporting to boycott the state is stupid.

[sadbear]

108. Why? Making the conscious decision to go to California (or anywhere else) instead of Florida....

happens all the time. Why is making that decision based on the politics of the state moronic?

[DirkGently]

109. Because you can't punish the "politics of the state?"

Which is kind of a stupid conceit anyway. America elected George W. Bush, twice. The logic that Florida is somehow as a whole responsible for bad politics here would be same as blaming "America" for Bush. And of course Florida elected Obama. Twice.

You boycott a company that is using your money to work against your interest. You can't address a boycott of a state to the results of a trial you don't like.

And by the way, how are you going to choose California, of all places, when "they" let O.J. go free?

[sadbear]

111. If voters punish lawmakers, you can punish the politics of the state.

This wouldn't be about just one trial, either. The trial just seems to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

And yes, you can blame America for Bush.

[DirkGently]

112. Then boycott "America." If you want Florida politics to change

so badly, you should support the progressives down here breaking their backs to make things better. Dismissing the state is a kind of queer geographic bigotry.

While you're at it, send some cash to Texas. Their progressives need help too.

[sadbear]

113. I live in Texas.

And I would support a boycott of my home state, too.

Yes, we progressives need help, but we aren't getting it from any tourism dollars. Don't kid yourself.

[DirkGently]

115. I support progressives, wherever they are. State boycotts are stupid.

Everyone lives in the state, progressives included. A million small businesses depend on tourism. Boycotts should be targeted at entities using their muscle to influence politics. Disney. Darden. Mears transportation. Boycott them.

[sadbear]

120. I disagree. Voters need to know that their votes have consequences.

We are a community, not individuals. When the community votes for the wrong lawmakers, we all suffer.

[DirkGently]

121. You can't communicate that by boycotting a state.

No one's going to look at tourism figures and blame Republicans. Boycotting Disney would give that company less money to support ALEC. Boycotting some charter captain's fishing vessel or some immigrant's small business is meaningless.

[sadbear]

143. Sure you can.

All you have to do it say so: "We are boycotting your state because of the lawmakers you elect." That's it. These people have to work for their livelihoods. That should include advocating for policies that are good for their business. If republican policies are bad for business, for whatever reason, they need to change it.

[DirkGently]

144. No one's going to vote differently based on such nonsense.

Particularly as applied to the result of a criminal trial. There's simply no way to connect one to the other.

What do you think -- someone will say, "We need to change this law, or sadbear won't come to the Keys?"

It's utterly nonsensical.

[sadbear]

148. It's not just me.

If every liberal and progressive decided not to visit Florida based not on the outcome of this trial (which you continue to suggest), but based on the culmination of everything up until the trial, I bet they would change the law.

[DirkGently]

149. Change what law? You're not making any sense here.

First, no such thing will happen. Second, a statewide boycott could never be causally connected to one law in the Zimmerman case, because it turned on general self-defense law, common to most states.

You're wanting to connect a general boycott to some kind of general change. That's simply not possible.

Florida's like any other state. If you want better policies, you need to elect better people. That takes more contribution, not less.

[sadbear]

150. Sorry, dude. Just like us Texans, you Floridians have elected a bunch of right-wing assholes.

And you should pay the consequences like us in Texas, too.

Boycott Texas. Boycott Florida. Boycott Arizona. Boycott every other state that continues to elect these MFers.

Hit them where it hurts most. Yeah, people will suffer, but they're going to suffer anyway as long as right-wingers are in charge.

You keep doing your job in Florida, which is building communities, like I'm doing in Texas. And I'll not contribute any money to Tallahassee, just as you shouldn't contribute anything to Austin.

Go ahead. Get in the last word. I think we're done here, though.

[DirkGently]

151. I rather think we are paying the consequences. Why do you

think a fanciful notion of inflicting misery on the state as a whole is a tool to improve anything?

Republicans don't care if things are bad. They represent the rich. They never suffer.

You want change, you reach out and help the people working for it. You don't shit on and dismiss them like a bigot.

[sadbear]

152. Go read the thread again. I've already answered that.

We're done.

[DirkGently]

153. Yes, you & your specious argument are quite done.

[sadbear]

154. That's fine.

I don't put any faith into your conclusions, though.

[DirkGently]

156. That's okay. No "boycott" will occur. Idiots will still hate "states" of course.

[sadbear]

159. The boycott has already started.

Whether or not it accomplishes anything, you're probably right. I do feel better knowing that I can control who my money goes to in Texas. I just know that's next to impossible if I ever visited Florida again. And don't ask me to contribute to Florida progressives. We Texas progressives already have our hands full.

[DirkGently]

160. Oh my god. I hope I have time to escape before the sadbear money dries up.

Suit yourself. It's a stupid approach that will accomplish nothing and, if it could work, would help Republicans.

I for one, will support the progressives in your likewise screwed up state however I may. I may or may not have dollars to spare, but I will look for ways to support Wendy Davis and every other Texas Dem and progressive trying to pull the Republican head out of your respective asses.

Florida, at least, is turning blue. If the rest of the world is smarter than a few idiots flailing around on DU about a criminal case they can't be bothered to even understand, we will continue to get more support for more progressive outreach and do more good here.

[sadbear]

161. I'm beginning to wonder about your comprehension skills.

It's not about this one trial. I've said this multiple times before in this very thread.

[DirkGently]

162. It's what the thread is about. So the OP is wrong?

It's not like the nonsensical notion of a statewide boycott to somehow force Florida to be better in a general way is less nonsensical than a general boycott because people are mad about the Zimmerman trial. Neither one tracks logically or helps as much as it (would theoretically, if it ever happened) hurt.

A rational person who wants a state to be more progressive doesn't try to hurt the state, as though it were a person, rather than a place full of different people.

It's a child's logic, and it's coming from a childish place.

Many states are screwed up. It's laughable for one, to even pick Florida when Wisconsin and Virginia and North Carolina are pulling what they're pulling.

But you don't attack the "state." You can't teach a "state" some kind of general lesson about not pissing you off.

You can only reinforce the good and oppose the bad. That's how reality works.

[polichick]

104. Floriduh, Texass, The United Throwbacks of America...

It's all too big to boycott - it's a national hell that we'll have to find our way out of.

[Egalitarian Thug]

107. When Disney World feels a pinch, we might see some change, so hell yeah.

When the people that live perpetually fail to make any meaningful change for themselves, it is up to the rest of us to drag their asses into the 20th century.

We won't be going there and we will not be doing any business with companies based there.

[Baitball Blogger]

119. There isn't any significant tourism going on in Seminole County.

They live and breathe through the real estate industry. They only care about new residents for three reasons: One, when they move in and buy a house; when they pay taxes; and when they move out, creating a need for the new flip-it industry that seems to be burgeoning.

Really, if you wanted to hurt Seminole County the best way to do it is to send Liberal Constitutional Rights activists in by droves to live here. You won't have to wait long before you find a cause to fight.

[DirkGently]

125. Yep. If you're mad at conservatives, fund progressives.

National Dem and progressive groups ignore Florida too much. Good work has happened here, but it doesn't run on boycotts.

[Baitball Blogger]

129. They overlook the obvious.

I have a case that would blow the good ole boy network wide open and I'm still looking for progressive allies to expose them.

[HockeyMom]

139. I refused to stop in Sanford

last April when we drove up to St. Augustine. We were hungry but as soon as I saw the Sanford Exit, I told my husband to keep driving to the next exit for dinner.

We drive up to NY from Naples several times a year using the I-4 Corridor. Think I will ever stop in Sanford NOW? No way.

[Baitball Blogger]

142. I know. That's the natural reaction.

But the more you avoid them, the stronger their socio-political networks get.

[HooptieWagon]

163. Sanford is 4 or 5 miles off the Interstate.

People usually don't drive that far out of the way for a bite to eat anyway.

[HockeyMom]

165. Coming up 75 North from Naples

we use I-4 to get to 95 North. Yes, we pass Sanford. We could go East through Alligator Alley but my husband doesn't want to go through Miami/Ft. Lauderdale traffic.

There are NO places to eat right on the interstate. You have to get off to eat somewhere. McD's for dinner?

[HooptieWagon]

172. I don't know why you don't take I-10.

Its faster, and a more pleasant drive. Places to eat right off 75 in G-ville, and its easier to miss J-ville traffic. 301 is even a good shortcut at night.

[Deep13]

127. Not going to FL, don't want to be shot...

...and I don't want black person to be afraid that I might shoot them.

[polichick]

128. A lot of Floridians hate tourists but eventually...

a lot of businesses would hurt and politicians would start to sweat.

[DirkGently]

136. FL conservatives sweat when FL liberals have funding.

When things are bad, they blame Obama. When things get better, they credit cutting taxes on big business and making aid recipients take drug tests.

If Florida had the kind of nationwide Dem and progressive support you see in other eastern states, you'd see some more progressive ass kicking.

You want to change Florida, dig in and help.

[olddots]

155. Florida Orange Juice

n.t.

[indepat]

164. I hereby pledge that my chances of ever setting foot in Florida again is less than

1 in 10 to the 23rd power.

[Major Hogwash]

167. No kidding!

We couldn't get them to take their 'Stars and Bars' flags down years ago.
Disneyworld isn't that great anyway.

[ignatzmouse]

168. A moment to move

What the boycott naysayers neglect is that the Florida dems also voted for this law. Though the stand your ground law was not used in this case, it heavily influenced the initial decision not to prosecute. More importantly, the law itself is emblematic of the rise in reactionary racism. It's basically a paranoid delusional law based in white fear, a "we'll put you in your place" law. This is a moment to not only address this course of evil but to do so by a symbol of redress.

A boycott of Florida, specifically their signature tourist industry, leverages both Florida and the other states with similar laws or who are planning similar laws. You can bet that the politicians who passed this suck at the teat of the tourist industry. If that industry says change it, change it now, the politicians will listen and change it just as the threat of boycotts and impacts to business got the Confederate stars and bars removed from state flags.

For the hand wringers crying about hurting the liberals in Florida, it doesn't even have to come to that because the impetus to boycott can be enough to shudder through the politicians' backbones and get the law abolished. If not, then follow through. Have some convictions for chrissakes.

Lastly, to those who promote complacency just because they surmise a boycott will invite the racists to flock to Florida vacations to make up for it, consider this. Florida tourism is a brand. Do you really think they want to associate their brand with gun-toting racists??? That would collapse their industry both domestically and internationally.

And think about this. The Right uses crisis management at every turn to take, to restructure, to exclude and remake the world in their divisive, destructive mold. This is an opportunity to take up tragedy and propel change to better the world. Whether this is done by the proposed boycott or through other means, all movements require a catalyst. This is a moment to move.

[emsimon33]

169. Seems to me that Florida has given people a license to kill

Scares the hell out of me.

[Summer Hathaway]

171. Of course.

Makes perfect sense.

Everyone should boycott an entire state due to a verdict handed down by six jurors.

The people whose livelihoods depend on tourism should just suck it up - so what if they lose their jobs, their homes, their life's savings? Fuck 'em if they can't see the Big Picture.

Besides, they can all just pack up and move to a state where an unpopular jury decision has never happened, a place where no injustice has ever been done, no insane law has ever been passed, no unsavory political goings-on have ever been exposed.

They can all move to - what state would that be, exactly?