Zimmerman's acquittal tonight is the result of Democrats not showing up in 2010!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

Yell at me all you want. And yes, I admit that I am upset.

However, not enough Democrats showed up in 2010. We got these draconian gun laws, thanks to ALEC and the NRA at the state level.

And though I fully understand that Zimmerman's defense did not rely on the Florida Stand Your Ground law as a defense, the fact that the gun laws in Florida--passed by a Republican legislature and signed by an extremist wingnut governor--meant that this cold-blooded killer could pursue and murder an unarmed black kid doing absolutely nothing wrong and go free.

Sure, I also understand that in off-year elections, the party of the president typically loses seats, but the 2010 blowout of Democrats was unprecedented!!

Republicans now control 29 state legislatures, and with the financing backing of the KKKoch Brothers, aided by ALEC, we got these crazy-ass gun laws!!

To make matters worse, redistricting on behalf of these Republicans, plus the gutting of the Voting Rights Act, may ensure Republican dominance of state legislatures for at least two more election cycles!

I hope we have learned a valuable lesson, Democrats!!

No matter how angry we may be at President Obama or the Democrats, we MUST NOT take it out on *GOOD* Democrats running at the local and state levels! We cannot do that again!

We must get involved in 2014!!!

[DonCoquixote]

1. I will see that, and raise you

2000 and 2004 as well.

Look, I may be angry as hell at what the Democrats have become, the way Obama and Clinton have watered down so much of what we used to be proud of that they seem as bad as the GOP...but then with all the reliability of Swiss clockwork, the GOP always reminds us they are worse.

[X_Digger]

2. The law used in the defense was passed in 1974, and signed into law by a Democrat (Reubin Askew). nt

[Niceguy1]

5. don't be facts to the discussion...

Who needs them?? Lol

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

14. So busy being a smart ass that you ignore the larger, more important point. Never mind.

[X_Digger]

17. I'm working damned hard to turn TX blue, but I don't use incorrect "facts" to make my case.

When what you say doesn't stand up to scrutiny, you do our cause more harm than good.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

29. Still don't know what you're talking about. Can you explain?

And furthermore, if my OP doesn't apply to you, then there's no need to get snarky. If you're one of the good Democrats who are working hard at the local level, then why do you attack me? Why do you think my OP is about you? If it's not, then don't be offended.

[X_Digger]

35. No law written since 2010 was invoked in this case.

You can bemoan those laws all you like, but trying to tie them (and the 2010 election) to this case... is disingenuous at best, and a low-hanging red herring at worst.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

48. The gun laws in Florida protected Zimmerman from being culpable. Those laws were strengthen when we

got Rick Scott as governor. That was separate from Stand Your Ground.

[X_Digger]

55. *headdesk* Which law? The one written in 1974?!? Signed by a (D) gov?

Goodness! This was a standard self-defense case, with laws similar to those going back 80 years in all 50 states. No law written after 2010 was the basis for the defense.

At this point, I have to think you're being intentionally stubborn, hehe.

[delrem]

58. A dichotomy that might be implicated in the issue

is that between predator/prey.

A verdict "innocent" abstracts from that dynamic.

What I mean is: we all fucking well saw it.

[sad-cafe]

3. 2014 is so important

we HAVE to motivate

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Then our Democratic leaders should stop driving voters away

by doing insane far-right crap like going after Social Security, shipping jobs offshore with "free" trade agreements, being the Republican Guard of the bankers, and all of the rest.

[Hydra]

10. *shhhh...* You're interrupting another fact-free post

We have to have a certain number of them, or the blue links will not be satisfied...

[xocet]

11. "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? HELL, NO!!"

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

15. What was fact-free about my OP?

[Hydra]

62. The entire premise

"Sure, I also understand that in off-year elections, the party of the president typically loses seats, but the 2010 blowout of Democrats was unprecedented!!"

That was because Our President, the one we worked so hard to elect, had an unprecedented number of young and independent voters. Remember that "Audacity of Hope" thing? When he got in office, it was the same old, same old. Those people who had dared to hope and don't usually stand with us did. And then they didn't when he didn't deliver.

All of us voted, so I'm not sure why this meme continues.On top of that, the third way clowns blunted our efforts to harness that anger in a useful direction, and the Koch Tea Party wound up sucking up the spotlight.

Trevon Martin died in vain not because we didn't vote, but because the people we voted for don't stand for Equality, Justice and the truth. Our party failed us. We didn't fail our party.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

16. I'm referring to Democrats running at the state and local levels. You're going to punish them, too?

[MannyGoldstein]

23. I don't want to punish anyone

I just want the bipartisan war agains the 99% to end as quickly and as peacefully as possible.

I hold my nose and vote for even awful Democrats in lieu of more-awful Republicans. But I know folks who don't bother to vote because they feel like it doesn't matter who they vote for.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

34. O.K., and I do, too. But that happens at the grassroots (read: local) level, no?

We can't rely on Congress.

We can't rely on the president.

We can't rely on the federal courts.

I don't understand the hostility. What am I saying that's wrong or incorrect?

Doesn't change flow from the bottom up?

And if there are good, progressive Democrats running at the local level, shouldn't we support them?

And if there aren't, why not run for office ourselves?

[MannyGoldstein]

43. I feel kinda like you're blaming the victim

Battered spouses *should* get a clue and leave - but they often don't. We don't say the battering is their fault, though.

Of course we should support true Democrats at any level. But it seems that so many of them become banker concubines once elected, and people are dispirited by that.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

46. So find a progressive Democrat that you like at the local level and vote for that Democrat.

If you can't find any, run yourself.

[MannyGoldstein]

49. Kennedy, Warren, and Markey are my elected representatives

So I will follow your advice, with gusto! Damn, you bet!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

52. Good, then. We're in agreement. Did we have to go through all of that just to come to the same

conclusion?!?!?

[treestar]

32. are you friggin' kidding

ffs.

you're going to wail about that bullshit when a 17 year old kid is dead? Because of right wing fantasies regarding violence and race?

[otohara]

56. Dems Have Always Not Voted In Midterms

Don't go blaming our leaders for decades of lazy Dem voters.
Our leaders may suck, but the other side is a thousand times worse.

[The Straight Story]

6. It's nader's fault

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

26. It's not Nader's fault. This is serious!

[BainsBane]

7. No, Stand Your Ground was not used in Zimmerman's defense

This is the kind of racism that has characterized this country for centuries. Black males are valued less than other citizens. It's horrendous and inexcusable but not unexpected.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

18. You don't read well. I clearly state that SYG was not used in this case. Please reread the post

and pay attention to the larger, more important point that I made.

Thanks.

[BainsBane]

20. What gun law since 2010 can you link this to?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

24. Surely you know and understand that ALEC, with the NRA, drafted these extreme gun laws at the

state level, right? Do you know this? Or are you being snarky?

[BainsBane]

33. Of course

If you want to make a point, stop attacking everyone in this thread. Lord, I've posted about the NRA-Alec connection. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023099762
But you're making claims about this particular verdict that you cannot substantiate. Reacting hostilely doesn't help you at all. If you want people to pay attention to the larger point, you need to focus on that point rather than unconnected events.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

36. I wasn't attacking anyone! I was actually responding to those attacking me and being rude, just

like you're doing.

[BainsBane]

38. asking you for evidence is not being rude

This is obviously a waste of time.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

44. Evidence for what? Your post is obtuse. I don't know what you're talking about!

If it's a waste of your time, then don't bother.

[CakeGrrl]

8. K/R

I'm tired of the bullshit arguments that people have to WANT to go to the polls.

If what's been going on in Texas, North Carolina, Wisconsin and Florida isn't enough to open people's eyes, then they get whatever the GOP can mete out.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

22. And then they get angry when we have the gutting of voting rights, reproductive rights laws,

and extreme gun laws. But wait...

They didn't want to support Democrats because those Democrats were "PURE" enough.

So, what do they expect?

When Republicans get in, you get extreme conservative laws. It's just that simple!!

[liberal_at_heart]

42. no what I get angry about is when democrats push Race to the Top and my son's

school feels so pressured by the feds for funding they push kids to take grade level math no matter their comprehension level. I get angry when democrats sit back and do nothing as our national wage goes down and down and down further into the toilet, and then make backroom deals with the republicans to cut social programs. I'm done with you. I will vote for whomever I please. Like I said before you can blame me all you want. It won't change my vote.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

45. So what does that mean? Does that mean that you won't vote for Democrats at the local/state level

in 2014?

Was I blaming you directly? No. I wasn't.

[liberal_at_heart]

53. I will vote for liberals who fight the control the 1% has over this country.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

54. Actually, we are in agreement.

[liberal_at_heart]

57. yeah, okay. Whatever. Your OP and post #22 really make that clear.

[pipoman]

9. ..

[HiPointDem]

12. BULLSHIT

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

19. What's bullshit about anything I wrote?

[HiPointDem]

28. ride your hobbyhorse some other night

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

37. Don't know what a hobbyhorse is. And I don't know what you're talking about.

What about my OP has you upset?

What about it is false or incorrect?

[liberal_at_heart]

13. It's the politicians' fault. I will not vote for democrats who support corporations, who

won't do anything about wages dropping, who support Race to the Top. You can blame me all you want. I don't care. You cannot bully me into voting for someone.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

21. I'm not asking you too. Hence, the *GOOD* Democrats emphasis in my OP. I support progressive

Democrats who run at the state and local levels. Do you?

[liberal_at_heart]

31. if I find a *good* democrat I'll vote for them. There's not many around. Too many have been

bought by the 1%.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

39. Please point out where I disagree with you? It comes from the bottom up.

[snooper2]

25. I thought it was because a Jury made a decision

guess I learned something new in the past hour

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

41. Don't be silly. People are upset about the verdict. These gun laws are ridiculous! We need more

Democrats in state legislatures.

[snooper2]

51. and in 72 hours

they will be upset about something else---

[treestar]

27. Amen

And Florida even still went blue in the Presidential elections. There's no reason to let the right run roughshod over the state houses. that's what happened here. Right wing state law allowed for this.

[aikoaiko]

30. Florida went "shall issue" in 1987

This is not a recent thing.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

40. O.K., but the larger point of my post shouldn't be up for dispute, no? Don't we want MORE Democrats

in state legislatures???

[aikoaiko]

47. Yes, of course, we want more Ds in the state roll calls

And we will. But gun laws are probably the least efficient way to rally the troops since many Democrats are gun owners.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

50. I support gun rights. This is not about responsible gun ownership.

[Iliyah]

59. Votr

[Spitfire of ATJ]

60. I get the idea things are improving...

There is a whole knew generation that feels no need at all to value the "tradition" of racism.

Now all we need is for them to get involved locally.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

61. Don't think 2010 factored in. The NRA is somewhat responsible for the murder of many Americans.

Plus the prosecution sucked! We who tried to avoid this trial couldn't help but learn how many mistakes were made and how poor their strategy was. Too many people realize that Zimmerman had ill intent, yet supporters rejoiced at every star turn by the defense. Why did he call the police? Who knows. He never said the same thing twice.

I believe the GOP, generally speaking, is functioning only on the fumes of hatred. I'd make more of a case that Sarah Palin and her gun toting fans, with hatred towards non-whites, were a factor in establishing the "us vs them" attitude that has polarized this nation and probably the jury pool. Though the goal was to deny Obama the opportunity to actually bring about the kind of change he promised, they joyously entered us all into a form of civil war. Then the Koch Brothers, and their cynical albeit self serving brand of Libertarianism, pit the races against each other through truly despicable legislation via their unlimited war chest.

This is life in a plutocracy. The Zimmermans, Palins, and the rest, are a result of that plutocracy.