So murderers can now copy George Zimmerman to be able to get away with murder in many states...

[AZ Progressive]

Just pick a fight with someone at night, when they fight back shoot and kill them and claim self defense...

And oh, especially for black people. Are we going back to the days of Emmitt Till, a 14 year old black boy that was killed in 1955 by the husband and a half brother of a woman of which Emmitt Till was thought to have flirted to. Now, a racist white person in Red America, in order to kill a black person, need only to pick a fight with them and when the black person fights back, shoot and kill them and claim self defense.

What a fuckin precedent this case has just made, especially in red states.

[David Zephyr]

1. Thank you for saying what everyone is missing: This is the new America.

.

[Chisox08]

3. Yeah the new America same as the old America

It's sad to say that I am not shocked at the verdict.

[Rex]

2. I thought shooting an innocent person and killing them was a crime.

I learned something new today.

[AZ Progressive]

5. To be honest, there's always been separate justice systems in America

One for rich people, one for everyone else that's not black, and one for black people.

[spin]

9. What you learned is that our legal system places an enormous burden on the prosecution. ...

The prosecution has to convince ALL the members of a jury that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

In this case there simply wasn't enough evidence to eliminate all doubt. There also wasn't enough evidence to prove that Zimmerman was innocent but there didn't have to be.

[Rex]

11. So how does it justify the automatic guilt of Martin?

What automatically comes into place or is that just an assumption we have to always believe? I was shocked that killing someone with a gun is not a crime when no crime was committed prior, to justify lethal force.

Learned something new today.

[spin]

18. The jury obviously believed that Zimmerman used his handgun in self defense ...

and in my opinion the prosecution failed to show beyond a reasonable doubt that this was not what happened.

I have no way of knowing what went down that night but if I would have been on the jury I would have ruled that Zimmerman was not guilty. I would have followed the instructions the judge gave the jury and since I honestly feel some doubt, I could not have voted that Zimmerman was guilty.

If you would have been on that jury, you might have ruled that Zimmerman was guilty. People form different views on many different subjects. Hopefully if you were in the position of being a juror in that case you would have carefully considered the evidence and not allowed your emotions to determine your vote.

Reasonable doubt


A standard of proof that must be surpassed to convict an accused in a criminal proceeding.

Reasonable doubt is a standard of proof used in criminal trials. When a criminal defendant is prosecuted, the prosecutor must prove the defendant's guilt Beyond a Reasonable Doubt. If the jury—or the judge in a bench trial—has a reasonable doubt as to the defendant's guilt, the jury or judge should pronounce the defendant not guilty. Conversely, if the jurors or judge have no doubt as to the defendant's guilt, or if their only doubts are unreasonable doubts, then the prosecutor has proven the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and the defendant should be pronounced guilty.

Reasonable doubt is the highest standard of proof used in court. In civil litigation the standard of proof is either proof by a preponderance of the evidence or proof by clear and convincing evidence. These are lower burdens of proof. A preponderance of the evidence simply means that one side has more evidence in its favor than the other, even by the smallest degree. Clear and convincing evidence is evidence that establishes a high probability that the fact sought to be proved is true. The main reason that the high proof standard of reasonable doubt is used in criminal trials is that criminal trials can result in the deprivation of a defendant's liberty or in the defendant's death, outcomes far more severe than occur in civil trials where money damages are the common remedy.

Reasonable doubt is required in criminal proceedings under the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. In in re winship, 397 U.S. 358, 90 S. Ct. 1068, 25 L. Ed. 2d 368 (1970), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the highest standard of proof is grounded on "a fundamental value determination of our society that it is far worse to convict an innocent man than to let a guilty man go free."

The reasonable doubt standard is not used in every stage of a criminal prosecution. The prosecution and defense need not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that every piece of evidence offered into trial is authentic and relevant. If a prosecutor or defendant objects to a piece of evidence, the objecting party must come forward with evidence showing that the disputed evidence should be excluded from trial. Then the trial judge decides to admit or exclude it based on a preponderance of the evidence presented. A similar procedure employing a preponderance standard is used when a party challenges a variety of evidence, such as coerced confessions, illegally seized evidence, and statements extracted without the furnishing of the so-called Miranda warning.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Reasonable+Doubt

[Rex]

19. So why didn't they rule it as self defense?

Or is that the same thing as a not guilty verdict?

[spin]

23. I believe the jury's instructions were to rule that Zimmerman was ...

guilty of second degree murder, guilty of manslaughter or not guilty.

[Rex]

25. I see, so not a ruling of self defense at all then.

Thanks. They had to pick from three choices.

[spin]

26. That's my understanding. (n/t)

[Blackford]

4. Trayvon Martin is the 21st century Emmet Till n/t

[AZ Progressive]

7. More on Emmett Till

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till

"Emmett Louis Till (July 25, 1941 – August 28, 1955) was an African-American boy who was murdered in Mississippi at the age of 14 after reportedly flirting with a white woman. Till was from Chicago, Illinois, visiting his relatives in Money, Mississippi, in the Mississippi Delta region, when he spoke to 21-year-old Carolyn Bryant, the married proprietor of a small grocery store there. Several nights later, Bryant's husband Roy and his half-brother J. W. Milam arrived at Till's great-uncle's house where they took Till, transported him to a barn, beat him and gouged out one of his eyes, before shooting him through the head and disposing of his body in the Tallahatchie River, weighting it with a 70-pound (32 kg) cotton gin fan tied around his neck with barbed wire. His body was discovered and retrieved from the river three days later."

...

"Although initially local newspapers and law enforcement officials decried the violence against Till and called for justice, they soon began responding to national criticism by defending Mississippians, which eventually transformed into support for the killers.

The trial attracted a vast amount of press attention. Bryant and Milam were acquitted of Till's kidnapping and murder, but only months later, in a magazine interview, protected against double jeopardy, they admitted to killing him. Till's murder is noted as a pivotal event motivating the African-American Civil Rights Movement."

[Honeycombe8]

6. Note to men (who seem not to understand this): Don't be the first one to strike a blow.

You have a lot to prove, if someone gets hurt or killed, and YOU are the one who struck the first blow.

You are only allowed under the law to lay your hands on another person in limited situations.

It doesn't matter if they insult your mother, call you names, ring your doorbell repeatedly, make prank calls to you, follow you....be aware that that does not necessarily give you the right to punch someone.

[kestrel91316]

14. There is not one speck of evidence that Trayvon threw the first blow.

Zimmy's testimony is not to be believed because he is a proven liar.

[Honeycombe8]

16. This is sadly why so many don't understand the verdict. Because they don't understand the evidence.

Yes, it was shown in the evidence that TM did, in fact, strike the first blow, get GZ down on the ground. The prosecutor all but conceded these facts in his closing statement.

It was not just GZ's testimony that said that. It was the physical evidence, as well as eyewitness testimony of parts of the confrontation, as well as the gf's testimony.

That doesn't mean that was enough so that GZ feared great bodily harm, which was GZ's defense.

I'm surprised, but I can see how a jury could arrive at it.

Maybe the charge should've been negligent homicide or something. Something with less time in prison.

[dsc]

22. actually that doesn't matter

I disagree with you on whether that was proven or not, but the fact is given the insane law and or jury instructions it apparently doesn't matter who strikes first. They were to ignore everything that happened prior to the shot, all of it. The only thing that mattered was Zimmerman's state of mind at the second he fired the shot. So in point of fact, Zimmerman could have struck the first blow or pushed Martin and provoked a fight which he then started losing, and shot. That also would have been self defense.

[Skittles]

8. yup - just instigate a confrontation and wait for them to defend their life

then you can fire away!!!

[FBaggins]

10. Not "now"... always

If you can make a murder look plausibly like self defense... it's always been possible to get away with it.

The problem is that most intended murderers have some connection with the victim.

[AZ Progressive]

12. This trial has just promoted it

This trial and the acquittal of George Zimmerman has now promoted the idea to current would be and future murderers on how to get away with murder. This is appalling.

[Quixote1818]

13. Zimmerman better never get in a fight with someone with a gun

They would be able to claim they thought he would go for his gun just like he did with the black kid.

"You see officer, I felt I needed to be quicker than George."

[johnnyrocket]

15. Yes. This verdict is insane. Open season on shooting kids now?

[RegexReader]

17. Murdering someone while talking to 911

doesn't sound like much of a plan to me.

Just saying,

[Hoyt]

20. Zimmerman will become an NRA certified how to beat a murder rap instructor.

And gungeoneers will be back to posting on what not to tell police if you shoot an unarmed kid.

[meow2u3]

21. This tweet sums up the injustice

https://twitter.com/JamesPMorrison/status/356129115314720770

[blockquote class="twitter-tweet"][p]It can't be stressed enough that even more than race the Martin/Zimmerman tragedy is emblematic of our rape culture and blaming the victim.— James Morrison (@JamesPMorrison) [a href="https://twitter.com/JamesPMorrison/statuses/356129115314720770"]July 13, 2013[/a]
[script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"][/script]

[Pennycat]

24. The final analysis

Zimmerman profiled Martin. Martin saw this and was creeped out. Zimmerman got out of his car. Martin, like many young men lost his temper and threw a beat down on Zimmerman who in turn shot Martin. Whether or not he feared for his life, only he will know.

Sad.