General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsYou're failing your country right now. Yes, you.
I took an immigrant friend to dinner earlier this evening in Berkeley, CA. He's been in America for two months. As we approached the restaurant, we saw a small crowd gathered along the street. They were middle-aged, fairly typical looking. They held up signs like "Tax the Rich," and "Hands off our Social Security." He was amused. He said he'd heard of Berkeley. As if it were a quaint side show.
It struck me a little bit. Who were they protesting to? Berkeley is a fairly liberal town. Are there very many who would drive along that would disagree with them? They stood on the road I commute to work on. I wouldn't really pay them any heed.
They stood there for at least two hours.
Who, exactly, were they helping? Who were they helping? They feel very strongly. They took out two or more hours out of their day to hold signs on a street. To what effect? What is being changed there? Minds? Most minds in East Bay are liberal.
There is useful vigor and useless vigor.
You can scream. You can shout. You can post on the internet. You can be upset.
But until the people in this country do something, we are coasting along towards the inevitable corporate state.
In this country, where the media behaves as it does, protesting is not doing anything. They ignored the Iraq war protests. They ignored millions in the streets with signs.
They ignored you.
The only answer is a strike. Not just you, everyone you know. If it's just you as "a statement" it is less nothing in this culture.
We're failing. What are you going to do about that? When is enough enough? If we can't rummage enough outrage in an authoritarian state that would mock 1984, are we a generation worth a shit?
sibelian
(7,804 posts)K+R
cali
(114,904 posts)that wouldn't go down well? and what exactly is the op suggesting?
sibelian
(7,804 posts)I think if you're going to take action it may as well be something that does something. To be sure, the criticism is a generalisation...
reusrename
(1,716 posts)Our ability to organize is being thwarted by the most sophisticated system ever designed for such purpose. If they switched it off for a couple of weeks we would all be on the same side and the guillotines would be on display in the streets.
The problem becomes how to effect change without being able to organize. That's one reason why lone actors are so important. They keep hope alive. For a little while longer.
There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that as soon as the cost/benefit analysis confirms that a huge profit can be made from nuking us, they will nuke us. We are at that point right now, have been for years really. If Obama had not been elected it would have already happened.
They will not stop, they don't even understand why they should have to.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And of course it's verboten to lay out why that is on DU.
cali
(114,904 posts)Prism
(5,815 posts)Across all walks of life and industry
If we do not hang together, surely we will hang separately.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)What did you eat and drink? Where is your friend from that he sees democracy as quaint?
msongs
(67,420 posts)Iggo
(47,558 posts)So that's like plus points, right?
Chan790
(20,176 posts)What is the purpose of protesting for liberal economic action where the entirety of your audience agrees with you? It achieves nothing, you're reaching nobody to change their mind; it's being done to self-aggrandize and balm your own feelings that you're doing something...but you're not, you're doing nothing at-all. It's like handing out handbills entitled "Why Christians should support marriage equality!" at a pagan festival on Fire Island...who is such action really reaching to change hearts and minds? It's theatrics being put on to no effect for an audience of like-minded individuals for the purpose of salving the feelings of the protestors when people honk in support or give them a thumbs-up.
Worse, you're sucking life and energy out of other actions that could be helpful. Every jot of energy wasted on purposeless action that achieves nothing is not energy failing to be used to achieve something, it's energy that is blunting the impact of energy being used in purposeful action. Their "affirmative actions" would have done more if they'd dropped the signs, said "Fuck it!", went to dinner and recouped to start anew tomorrow by taking purposeful protest action that has measurable benchmarks and results in places where the capacity exists to change minds.
Take a fucking lesson from OWS. They wanted to protest the economic pillaging of the 1%, banks and Wall Street. Did they hold their protest in Williamsburg, Brooklyn to an audience of like-minded individuals? No. They took the fucking protest to Wall Street. If you want to protest economic disparity and revitalize the movement for economic justice...don't protest in Berkeley to like-minded rich individuals whose support is vocal as long as they're not being asked to contribute. No. Take your goddamned protest to the poor areas of Oakland and use it to organize the poor to take back their economic justice or take your protest to the capital-grounds in Sac'mo in the view of your lawmakers and the media so that you may give voice or take your protest to the doorstep of your oppressors so they can hear you and know you're there.
Calling what these idjits did on the side of the street "action" is an embarrassment to the memory of activist leaders like Mother Jones, Steve Biko, Martin Luther King Jr. and Saul Alinsky.
Prism
(5,815 posts)Thank you.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Wouldn't that imply that their protest actually accomplished something other than make themselves feel good?
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)to cause a ripple in a large lake.
demwing
(16,916 posts)Well, so says a lone voice of protest from across the internet, raging against the machine..
"You can scream. You can shout. You can post on the internet. You can be upset. But until the people in this country do something, we are coasting along towards the inevitable corporate state."
.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Quantess
(27,630 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)I think you need to wake up.
The corporate state is here.
MsLeopard
(1,265 posts)It's been here for a long time now.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)These folks took time out of their day; maybe sacrificing their own plans to take on the establishment in the only real way we have left; our voices.
Perhaps its time that YOU lead the next big thing...
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Not that I'm advocating anything more substantive, you understand. Against the rules, and all that...
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)How's that...
reformist2
(9,841 posts)and you can't even get a candidate that shares your views, then the OP is right. Only a strike against the government will have any real impact.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)corporate America is what is needed. A hit in the boardroom, and obscene profits.
Progressive dog
(6,905 posts)Since they don't get enough money to live on because of the "authoritarian" state, they should hold signs against the NSA,CIA, or whomever you think. They could travel to other places, since they're all liberal in Berkeley anyway. Oh wait, they don't have enough money to stay in one place, bad idea.
You may not believe this but some of us aren't making overthrow of the "authoritarian" government of the USA a major priority.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)"They" were already doing more than you were.
So what's your plan, Stan?
nolabels
(13,133 posts)I like critics and protesters, l like people who say what is the use and why do i waste my time. It's not a crime to be apathetic. Getting mad or sad because it seems nothing can be done is also doing something. And if you really want to understand what a crazy person like me thinks about it, i would say "it's your thing, do what ya goin to do"
Inherently like a flock birds that often don't seem to have a clear leader yet all understanding of the direction to go, we will know the way when we see it.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Having dinner out with a friend. What are you going to do about what you're talking about?
See, there's a bit of a disconnect here. You're complaining about some people protesting while you're enjoying a meal in a restaurant. That's why some people aren't taking you that seriously about this.
The people protesting were doing something. At that moment. Now, what they were doing might not affect conditions, but they were out there doing something. You were having your dinner.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Uff da...
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Prism
(5,815 posts)"Armchair revolutionary."
Dude, I work in social services. I'm down in the trenches. I wanted to highlight how pointless self-contained, to-the-choir protest is.
But hey, at least the "ex" freeper agrees with you.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)because they go to work.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Your friend is new to the US, yet you support his notion that protest and democracy is 'quaint' while you both wallow in food served to you by immigrants from other 'quaint' countries.
If you two left a decent tip, then you did something for others that night other than whine. Did you tip at all? Or is that too 'quaint' for your friend from some mystery country that is super perfect yet he has to come here for work? Does he think of his paycheck as 'quaint'?
Prism
(5,815 posts)Seriously, look at your assumptions here. My friend is Filipino, and after we saw the protesters he discussed how the disadvantaged have representation in their country vs our gerrymandered shit. (I don't know enough about the Phillipines to know if what he was saying is true, but his point about our fixed, pay to play system was spot on).
Second, you assume immigrants in a restaurant. So that's a nice bit of stereotyping. Jesus.
And third. I tipped 20%, which is my base tip.
Did you want to have a discussion, or were you content with being erroneously nasty based on your non-knowledge of us?
Apophis
(1,407 posts)Prism
(5,815 posts)Well?
Apophis
(1,407 posts)Your post shows how ugly you are.
Prism
(5,815 posts)But you feel free to assume and judge and get nasty.
Yeah. See?
Apophis
(1,407 posts)I hope you tipped your waitstaff well.
Prism
(5,815 posts)Again, this is odd to me. I went to get dinner, and the responses are as if I was out yachting.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)That's a result.
Prism
(5,815 posts)But you know Berkeley.
Do you think signs on Solano was an effective use of time?
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Folks down there already know what the problem is.
I'd like to address your thoughts on the General Strike issue. Last week we saw the BART strike, which was not really enormously popular with the Bay Area public, since the media frenzy whipped up anger over lies about what the workers there made.
In order to bring about the kind of mass strike of the kind you are talking about, you need to do an amount of work before-hand to get lots of people on board. The last strike of this kind in the Bay Area was in 1934. LaborFest is this month in San Francisco, so if you have time you might like to check out the history on what this cost in terms of human effort. http://www.laborfest.net/2013/2013schedule.htm
I don't know what organization the sign-holders belong to, it could be that it was simply a few people who seemed like they were out there wasting their time and yours. But I know from holding a sign or two on my own, that the act of doing this in public is very different than simply posting on the web.
For you, perhaps this effort did nothing. But for others who read the signs, perhaps it did something else.
Prism
(5,815 posts)I will definitely check it out.
The sign holders seemed self-motivated. And they didn't inconvenience me in the slightest. But knowing what I do know of the problems of the disadvantaged in East Bay, it bothered me a bit. A sign saying "Tax the Rich" is nice and all that. But four blocks over, there are people begging outside of the Safeway for basic necessities. Every other bumper sticker in Berkeley says tax the rich. It's not exactly a radical statement in these parts. (Although, maybe it is given house prices out here).
Had they been outside of a Bart station, hell yeah, go for it. Protest and action to go with it. But hanging out with your friends in lawn chairs sipping drinks on Solano? That's just masturbatory, IMHO.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Preaching to the choir and stuff.
I don't tend to bad mouth protesters. If you don't approve of what and where they were protesting, start up your own band of protesters.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)who are just trying to get through their day making a living and travel on BART. There's always a reason for not wanting protesters somewhere.
I have a friend who works in social services who has gone to protests with me too. There are different purposes for each action. It's hard to say what the sign-holders do when they are not out protesting.
If everyone agreed with the idea to tax the rich, we'd be doing more of it and often. Housing prices are rising out on the Peninsula too, and I've had people give me shit for keeping my Yes on 30 sticker on my car because they think they deserve lower taxes. Not everyone agrees with this statement even in the progressive parts of the Bay Area.
Taking a step to hold a sign up in public takes a mental shift. It leads to other forms of action too, but the sign-holding can definitely be part of it.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)But yeah, a lot of it ends up being just running around in circles
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." --Mitch Hedberg