Venezuela confirms receipt of Snowden's Asylum offer, now he just needs to fly there

[Catherina]

All he has to do know if decide when he wants to fly there. When? How?

President Maduro: Snowden can fly to Venezuela whenever he wants

The US Edward Snowden can come to Venezuela when he wants, the President stated today...

noticias.terra.com.pe/internacional/latinoamerica/snowden-puede-volar-a-venezuela-cuando-lo-desee-presidente-maduro,b9280699fa0cf310VgnCLD2000000ec6eb0aRCRD.html

We have received the asylum request.... He will have to decide when he wants to fly, if he finally wants to fly here.

"We told this young man, 'you are being persecuted by the empire, come here'", added the President

"Ya nos llegó la carta de solicitud de asilo (...) Tendrá que decidir cuándo vuela, si quiere finalmente volar para acá", aseguró Maduro en el Palacio de Miraflores, la sede de la presidencia en Caracas.

"Le decimos a este joven 'Usted está siendo perseguido por el imperio, véngase para acá'", agregó el mandatario.

http://www.laprensa.hn/Secciones-Principales/Mundo/Estados-Unidos/Venezuela-recibio-peticion-formal-de-asilo-de-Edward-Snowden

[mick063]

1. A "shout out" to Snowden

And my hair never was on fire.

The defense of a security state was.

My hair never was.

[Catherina]

3. Quick lol, while the Irish refuse to issue an arrest warrant!

A shout out to a very brave young man.

[mick063]

40. Here is the deal with Snowden

And if you were to check my post history, it would indicate I have been rather indifferent about the young man.

The extraordinary effort to demonize him, more than just about any controversial person in memory, leads me to believe he touched a deep nerve. Leads me to believe he is endangering large sums of money. Leads me to believe he is capable of political upheaval. I don't know the name of the leader of Westboro Baptist Church, but Snowden is etched into my brain as if chiseled into marble.

This tsunami of vitriol, disproportionate beyond compare, leads me to believe he is on the right track. To my recollection, I have not seen thread after thread, post after post, article after article, about individuals of greater threat or more shocking behavior. The reaction, of longer duration and equivalent magnitude, to others that have, for example, constructed an explosive with a pressure cooker. If people were to really understand the magnitude of threat to their personal lives, the political pressure to jail those that caused the economic debacle of 2008 would be of much greater import.

No, this man is quite capable of humiliating powerful people and ruining political aspirations. It is the only explanation of such a coordinated, professional, focused chorus of howls. Venezuela and Bolivia would not extend asylum offers to a mass murderer. Iceland would not bring a vote to extend citizenship to a psychotic nut. Germany and France would not be lecturing the United States based on the words from a raving lunatic.

Considering that I am relatively pissed at the financial moguls pulling the puppet strings of Democracy, presenting the façade of representation, imposing their will upon our daily life, I am all for the humiliation he has caused them.

I hope he costs them trillions with respect to their version of corporate socialism, otherwise known as "security".

[HooptieWagon]

47. +100 Well said!

[Catherina]

57. Zow!

Well said!

I hope he costs them trillions too. That's OUR money anyway.

[mick063]

78. Perhaps

But now comes the time to ask if he is a whistleblower or a traitor.

This can only come with a fair hearing, with accurate facts presented, in transparency for the nation to observe. I personally believe our constitutional freedoms ride in the balance. Unfortunately, mechanisms are in place that will always prevent that.

One thing this War on Terror has taught me is that it has become convenient to classify material only for the purpose to err on the side of political self preservation.

I honestly don't know the severity of his crimes or if knowing all the facts, I would consider them to be crimes. Due to the secure nature of his work, I will never know. If he has indeed, legitimately endangered us, he should be apprehended and face justice.

The failure of our government to come clean with American citizens and her allies raises doubt and suspicion. Caught in a lie just once has tremendously altered my perception. For the administration, Clapper was a debacle. Clapper's lie, more than any other reason, leads me to believe that Snowden would never find justice in our nation. It is only because my belief that Snowden would not receive fair trial, would I believe he should live in asylum in South America.

I have worked in sensitive positions before. I am fully aware of the damage that can be done. I do not condone such "illegal" behavior on a whim. On the other hand, I am absolutely opposed to blanket data storage and collection. My belief so strong, that I am inclined to hope Snowden goes free. I believe this data collection to be a crime of much greater scale. Further, I would hope this to ripple into the private sector. People willingly giving up information to be the acceptable threshold. People unaware that such information being distributed for profit to be the unacceptable threshold.

[ReRe]

79. That's right....

.... that's our trillions in their pockets. Quite a smooth shell game they had going... Have been wondering how all our money got into their pockets.

[Luminous Animal]

80. So appreciate the righteousness of this post.

[sabrina 1]

87. Excellently stated. The vitriol and as you pointed out, professionally coordinated

smear campaign backfired on them for all the reasons you stated. NOW it's about Snowden, THEY made it about him. We tried to get them to focus on what had been revealed, but it was clear some 'professional moronic Contractor' got the crazy idea that if they demonized the messenger, the message would be lost. And to think someone pays for this utter stupidity.

They made hero out of him and people will assume when they see the next smears against him, that is nothing more than propaganda and lies.

To smear someone effectively you need to have credibility. That essential quality has been lacking in those working so hard to smear this guy and as a result they produced the opposite result of what was intended.

[retired rooster]

82. Does he have to fly? Can't he catch a ship and sail?

[Cal Carpenter]

2. Hot damn

[Catherina]

5. The US is on it! "Washington Warns Snowden May Only Travel to The US"

Washington Warns Snowden May Only Travel to The US
El Universal ^ | Monday July 08, 2013 03:37 PM

The White House warned on Monday that former CIA staff Edward Snowden may not be allowed to travel to any other country but the United States.

The statement came after the US citizen was recently offered asylum by Nicaragua, Venezuela, and Bolivia.

The US Government keeps in touch through relevant diplomatic channels with all countries Snowden could travel across or choose for his final destination, said White House's spokesperson Jay Carney, EFE reported.

Carney's statement has been the first official US reaction after Nicaragua, Bolivia, and Venezuela recently offered Snowden asylum.

Carney further explained there were sufficient legal arguments for Russia to expel Snowden to the United States, despite the lack of any extradition bilateral treaty.

...

http://www.eluniversal.com/nacional-y-politica/130708/washington-warns-snowden-may-only-travel-to-the-us

Sorry White House, it is his international human right to seek asylum. Now tell us more about "Boundless Informant".

[Autumn]

32. So who died and put them in charge of other countries?

You know, sovereign nations.

[Catherina]

42. That's the exact same phrasing I had! And Latin America too

"There are colonial countries that think we're still living in the time of empires and colonies, before our liberations. They think that by intervening in our affairs, staging coup d'etats, installing military dictatorships or neoliberal governments they suck our region's natural resources, but that's over. Those resources belong to the people. They think that with blackmail and conditioning like they did before, they'll be able to humiliate us and we'll submit, make us change our politics. No they won't be able to. The politics are ours and it is impossible now to impose new politics at the service of the North Americans because it's illegal.

We're going to defend our economic, political, and democratic dignity, economic sovereignty. "

Evo Morales, yesterday in an interview with RT Espanol

[allin99]

64. Check out his wiki page...

interesting dude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales

Here's an interesting bit:
His opposition to the U.S. attempt to erradicate the coca trade] often resulted in him being jailed and in an incident in 1989, beaten near to death by UMOPAR forces (who, assuming he had been slain, dumped his unconscious body in the bushes where it was discovered by his colleagues).[24]

Yeah, not a guy who's gonna give into the yanks. lol.

[allin99]

73. lmao @ this wiki bit on the Morales page...

"In September 2008, Morales accused the U.S. ambassador to Bolivia, Philip Goldberg, of "conspiring against democracy" and encouraging civil unrest, and went on to order him to leave the country.[52] The U.S. government responded to Morales's action by ordering the Bolivian ambassador, Gustavo Guzman, out of their own country.[53] The following day Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez stood in solidarity with his Bolivian allies by ordering the U.S. ambassador Patrick Duddy out of his country, telling him to "go to hell 100 times" and withdrawing the Venezuelan ambassador to the U.S.[53]"

lol.

and apparently after libya he said obama's peace prize should be revoked. lolol.

[Catherina]

83. LMAO! Thank you! Went to look for the video, that wiki entry is a riot lol

[allin99]

88. lmao. i speak a little spanish...

so it was even funnier. lolol.



he sounds just like an announcement for a spanish tv show, except more cursing at the united states. lol.

[ReRe]

86. The USA does NOT own Snowden.

And the USA can't order other countries around, unless....

the USA blackmails the country.

If you ask me, the USA shouldn't orta' do that right now.

We just might end up blackmailing ourselves into a corner.

I want to see Snowden's face next to Maduro's in Venezuela via TV or Dish or Skype.

Would definitely be the kind of "blowback" I would like to see, instead of the "terroristic" kind.

I will dance in my computer chair when he arrives there!

Thanks, Catherina, for posting this "ominous" booga booga threat from Carney.

[hack89]

7. Now try to find a flight that doesn't stop in Europe en-route Caracas. nt

[Cleita]

10. Maybe he needs to go in the opposite direction.

Longer but maybe China and other Asian countries won't block him.

[hack89]

11. Find an international airline that doesn't have landing rights in America

that they don't want to loose.

[Cleita]

14. Actually looking at the map of Asia, Russia extends all the way to the Pacific Ocean.

It could probably be Aeroflot all the way to Havana that way although I would have to look at their flight information to see if it's possible.

[hack89]

17. Aeroflot has US routes I am sure they value more than Snowden.

Additionally, their Havana route goes through US airspace.

[kentuck]

20. I think you are right.

on that point. They do fly over US airspace usually when they fly to Havana.

[morningfog]

22. Who's going to force it down in US airspace?

[hack89]

33. You misunderstand.

We would simply not let it enter US airspace.

[morningfog]

84. How?

[hack89]

89. They order it not to.

like they do to airliners all the time. Any plane needs explicit permission to enter US airspace - it is not automatically granted.

[Cleita]

24. That road goes two ways. We also have landing privileges in places the Russians could

retaliate about if we take away theirs.

[hack89]

35. Putin is will only go so far to antagonize the US over Snowden

they don't care that much about him.

[Cleita]

38. But they also don't want to bend the knee to the USA either.

It makes them lose face.

[hack89]

44. So they will tread a middle course that does not require direct confrontation with the US

they just want him out of Moscow - they don't care what happens to him on foreign soil.

[HooptieWagon]

49. Only a little of Florida. Short detour around.

[morningfog]

21. Cuba and Ireland could be safe landing places.

[hack89]

31. The Havana route crosses US airspace

And again Aeroflot has to decide if they want to risk US retaliation.

We can fix our request with Ireland - it was rejected on an administrative technicality.

Time will tell.

[HooptieWagon]

53. only a little of Florida. Easy and short detour. no problem.

Overflight issues are at other end.

[hack89]

60. I doubt Putin will let Aeroflot fly Snowden via Cuba

it would be needlessly pissing off Obama.

[HooptieWagon]

63. Putin doesn't give a shit what Obama thinks.

Hes already let Snowden stay in transit area for a week.

[hack89]

65. Time will tell. nt

[HooptieWagon]

68. Yep. Putin is not one of Obama's EU puppets.

So there's every expectation he'll help Venezuela.

[hack89]

70. He is a cold blooded pragmatist

he will do what ever he thinks will benefit him the most. If that means selling Snowden down the river then so be it. You don't rise to the rank of Lt Col in the KGB by forgetting what is really important.

Like I said - time will tell.

[Autumn]

4. Viva Venezuela

rec.

[Catherina]

6. Siempre!

[Autumn]

13. I'm going to share this story with you.

I worked in the shipping department of a manufacturing firm. I handled the Venezuelan orders on a monthly basis. A typical order would be 12 to 14 pallets boxed and shipped. The day after Chavez spoke of the devil and the sulfur at the UN I went to work and I had one pallet left to finish up, I got the pallet done and got my corner pieces to put on before I wrapped it. No one was around so I got my corners and a permanent marker and wrote Viva Chavez on 2 and Bush Sucks on the other 2. I taped them on the corners, shrunk wrapped the last pallet and shipped them off. I like to think that when they unwrapped that pallet in Venezuela someone saw it and enjoyed reading it as much as I enjoyed writing it

[Catherina]

18. That is so cute! I hope it made someone smile too

We are not their enemy!

[msongs]

8. easy to pick on Snowden, standing up to republicans...nah that's work nt

[allin99]

9. Well, i guess the deadline is off, but what's with no contact?...

unless he's just saying that. b/c even if snowden is unable to make a call, he's got others he's communicating through. i'm officially lost. i give up. lol. i might have to skip a day.

[morningfog]

12. The deadline was just to make a decision. Looks like it was made.

[allin99]

23. i don't think so...

i see him say he got a letter
that he's offered
and at some point he references all of Latin America
and that snowden will have to decide when

but at no point does he say anything about snowden even acknowledging the offer


But this is my favorite line. lol.

"Latin America is saying to this young man: you are being chased by the Empire, Come over here,"

[Catherina]

26. Oh, I understand what you meant now. The asylum document was the acknowledgment

That's what they were waiting for after they made the offer Friday. Now it's all official and he has it.

[allin99]

39. Previous reports said they were one of the countries he...

originally sent a request to.

http://www.voanews.com/content/snowden-gets-support-from-venezuela/1693428.html

They perhaps had not received it up to that point, but wikileaks had it as one of the countries he applied to according to that image.

[longship]

15. Well, this seems to be confirmation that he has communicated his response.

That was what Ven was saying earlier with their approaching deadline.

The big question remaining -- there are many in this very confusing matter -- is whether the Russians might assist, or turn their backs. Or, whether some "letters of transport" -- shades of Casablanca -- can be delivered to Snowden at Sheremetyevo so he can continue his journey.

But given the Evo Morales debacle of last week, Snowden's itinerary will likely have to be carefully orchestrated. There are no direct flights from Sheremetyevo to S.A. Still, apparently Raul Castro has signaled that a plane with Snowden on board may find a friendly, or at least not a hostile, tarmac in Havanna.

Regardless, it will take a third country's assistance, or blind eye, to get Snowden to safety. There may be no way to do it.

I will remain neutral, but this is one helluva story. I intend to stay tuned.

[Catherina]

16. What do you mean by no contact?

I'm sure there's contact via the Venezuelan, Ecuadoran embassies in Moscow. Assange has been very much in the know too. They're just not blabbing about it.

That silly business about no contact was blown up by the press. Maduro didn't even make the offer until Friday and I don't know what's involved in getting to the Embassy to get the forms and fax them in. Remember it was the weekend and embassies don't normally provide consular services on weekends.

I was hoping he was already there lol.

[allin99]

28. true....

thanks.

so i guess we're at the point:

-all offers are still on the table (Ncga, Vnzla, Blva, ever so possibly uraguay, and probably waiting for another offer from somewhere)
-i believe with all certainty any of the countries will give him the letter he needs
-putin will help in any fairly passive up to not *too* active way that he can

all es needs is either vnzla or another nation to pick him up OR
somehow, and i'm really not sure how, maybe b/c there is no reference for it in history, lol, someone to rent homeboy a long-range jet

i just don't see him getting on a commercial flight.

[hrmjustin]

19. That flight plan will be a nightmare to any pilot.

[Catherina]

29. I'm really curious to see how they pull it off

Commericial? Private jet? Presidential jet? Boat?

[hrmjustin]

34. Well a boat is in international waters for most of the trip.

A plan would have to go across the Atlantic for a long time if it were to go from Africa. Not many pilots would do it.

[naaman fletcher]

46. He can't do boat

To do a boat he would have to leave the Moscow airport and Russia is not going to let that happen

[hrmjustin]

48. Well then the flight plan is going to be hell on a pilot.

It will likely mean they will have to fly over the Atlantic from Africa to South America. Will a pilot be willing to do that? That is taking a big risk.

[naaman fletcher]

52. Well,

People file fake flight plans. There are plenty of non western pilots who would do that. You file in this case a flight plan to west Africa, refuel there, and then fly direct to venezuela. That is how you could get over Europe and to west Africa. The issue would be if Russia would tell the US when he left and what plane he was on.

[hrmjustin]

54. Yes but would a pilot be willing to fly over the Atlantic for so many hours without the ablilty to

land.

[naaman fletcher]

59. Sure

A flight from west Africa to Cuba or Venezuela is nothing special to worry about

[hrmjustin]

61. Unless something goes wrong and the pilot might be worried about sabotage.

But in the end they can get military pilots that have to do it. I am sure they will figure it out.

[HooptieWagon]

56. No. Shortest route without overflight issues...

Is north from Moscow to the Arctic Ocean, west past Iceland, southwest between Iceland and Greenland, a gradually curving great circle course off the NA coast to Bahamas, and south to Caracas. Its about 11K km, a good bit longer than usual non-stop Moscow to Havana flight, but well within range of a large jet.

[hrmjustin]

58. So you mean just stay out further then a normal flight plan. That might work.

The pilot could still pull into land if something goes wrong. Greenland is Danish territory so it will be important to see their opinion on this. Would also have to see what the Bahamas would do.

[HooptieWagon]

66. Between Greenland and Iceland is Intl airspace.

Can detour around Bahamas if necessary...not a problem if going to Caracas. Biggest problem is cost. This would have to be a charter flight...cost is going to be $200K or more. Perhaps 16-18 hours flight time.

[hrmjustin]

69. I did not think of the cost.

[HooptieWagon]

71. Cost would be much less with commercial flight, obviously.

But I think there were overflight problems with Baltic and Scandinavian countries on regular route.

[hrmjustin]

72. You think Ven will cover the cost?

[hack89]

74. Finding a charter company willing to do it will be hard.

You can bet they all been told it would be in their best interests to stay out of it.

[HooptieWagon]

75. Any charter company will do it for the right price.

[hack89]

76. Companies avoid controversy - it is bad for business

defying the US government may not be wise for an international air charter that makes a lot of money flying people to and from the US.

[HooptieWagon]

77. Not every charter company operates in US puppet countries.

It would be great PR for a company working in Latin America or Middle East.

[hack89]

81. A company capable of flying those distances is doing business with puppets

where do you think those people in LA and the ME are flying to?

[Cleita]

36. No matter how they do it they need to file a flight plan if by air.

So that could be a problem to puzzle out.

[allin99]

45. I officially make my guess that:..

Some rich crazy person gives him a ride in his private plane. I know it needs to be a big plane, but i think that's how he'll get there.

either that or he takes some weird-ass risk with commercial flights and gets brought down by blocked airpsace.

[allin99]

55. This is a strange piece in this article...

http://www.eluniversal.com/nacional-y-politica/130707/maduro-seeks-to-consolidate-leadership-with-asylum-offer-to-snowden

but i thought it was interesting that they wrote as if it were quite sincerely a reasonable option...

In the event that Snowden decided to come to Venezuela, Nicaragua or Bolivia, identification documents should be issued for the former agent to leave Sheremetyevo Airport, in Moscow.

Once his identity documents have been issued, the government granting asylum would send a plane to Moscow, possibly a military aircraft, to move the US citizen. Then, a flight path has to be established and the overflight of the relevant nations has to be authorized previously, lawyers explained.

Snowden's departure would give some respite to Russia; otherwise, this case would harm Moscow's relations with Washington. Further, the G20 Summit would be tarnished by the absence of Barack Obama, who would not attend the meeting if the former agent stays in Russia.

[donco]

25. Hhmm...the question is

how would Jack Bauer handle this?Would Jack be looking at a cruse ship?Perhaps a cargo container?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. May he have a safe journey and a celebration in Caracas. K&R

[Catherina]

30. +100000000000000000 n/t

[MjolnirTime]

37. Parading down a dead end street

[adieu]

41. Snowden

should make sure that he flies on the plane with the largest number of international passengers. Please, please don't fly some single-engine Cessna from anywhere to anywhere.

[Cleita]

43. Good advice and if possible with as many VIPs on board too. n/t

[kentuck]

50. This would be a very popular political move in Venezuela.

It would be like something Hugo Chavez would have done. It's the type of decision that wins elections.

[Catherina]

62. Capriles is complaining about it like you can't believe lol

Tweeting about it like crazy, saying that Maduro is only doing this to cover up the fact that he stole the election from him. It's so pathetic. I think the polls showing that the majority of Venezuelans approved of Maduro's handling of things and had confidence, sent Capriles off the deep edge.

You're right, his poll numbers are going to climb after this. Everyone wants to have a cup of coffee or of mate with Snowden. It's so wonderful to see.

Mérida, 4th July 2013 (Venezuelanalysis.com) – After being elected president with 50.6% of the vote in April, now 55.9% of Venezuelans support Nicolas Maduro, according to a survey from pollster International Consulting Services (ICS).

The increase in support for the president is attributed to direct communication with the electorate, such as Maduro's “street government” initiative, according to ICS director, Lorenzo Martinez.

“This result is evidence somewhat that the Maduro government... has had a positive impact on the perception of the people... the political, social and economic landscape is improving,” Martinez told state news agency AVN, following the publication of the results yesterday.

However, when asked how they viewed Maduro's management skills, a slightly higher figure- 56.2% of participants described the president's performance as “excellent” “fair” or “good”.

The 1,600 Venezuelans surveyed by the ICS between 15 to 26 June also expressed a favourable view of the economy and security, according to Martinez.

53.4% of participants stated that they feel the economy is improving, while 21.2% stated it has worsened. 24.8% said that the economy hasn't changed since Maduro took office, while 0.6% didn't know, or didn't answer.

...

As well as citing the “street government”, Martinez told AVN the results indicate that government initiatives to counter speculation and crack down on public sector corruption, along with efforts to enforce price controls have contributed to a positive outlook. According to Martinez, people can “see solutions to their specific problems”.

...

Another government initiative that Martinez said received some positive feedback from participants was the 'Safe Homeland' anti-crime program.

In its survey, the ICS also asked participants, “do you think that the presence of security forces in the streets has increased or decreased?” 70.7% reported an increase. First introduced in Caracas, under Safe Homeland soldiers have been deployed alongside police in some of the country's most crime ridden areas. On Thursday, the interior minister Rodríguez Torres announced that next week he will meet with churches to discuss ways that religious institutions can contribute to the initiative.

...

This work is licensed under a Attribution Non-commercial No Derivatives Creative Commons license

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/9806

[magellan]

67. Ha ha!

Catherina, I thought you wrote: "Everyone wants to have a cup of coffee or mate with Snowden."

And I thought, well, yeah, of cour -- waitaminute, what? Lol

I also hope he gets to Venezuela successfully and safely. But I do feel badly for him. No matter where he goes he'll be a marked man for the rest of his life. If we have no qualms about bagging a Muslim cleric off a street in the ME or droning children, we'll have no problem with going after Edward Snowden.

[Historic NY]

85. He can't leave the transit zone of the airport w/o his passport or a visa....

Russia won't issue a Visa because they don't want him in the country. He needs to have his revocation lifted. I don't see many countries playing games with the diplomatic protocols and agreements with passports & visa's....its almost universal for citizens traveling in or out of countries or working there.