General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsZIMMERMAN TRIAL: Day 10, Monday, July 8, 2013
Lets group the trial posts into one big thread and not have a bunch of different threads.
Trail streaming live, no commentators or commercials: http://www.mediaite.com/uncategorized/live-zimmerman-trial-jury-selection-day-6/
Scroll down to the big picture of Z & click on it.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)Unless Zimmerman testifies himself.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)....who claims that the injuries sustained by Zimmerman could be indicative of having one's head bashed into concrete repeatedly, although I'd doubt he/she would able to testify to that using a straight face.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)Also, I've read that they have a weapons expert who will try to support the TM-on-top-GZ-on-bottom posture of both when the gun fired. It would go a long way towards refuting the idea that GZ was just out to take target practice on those he suspected to be hoodlums that evening.
Also, if there were any other witnesses that the prosecution DIDN'T want to hear from, because they supported GZ's claims, we can certainly expect O'Mara to call them forward. And I suspect that there will be some backdoor way to get TM's "state of mind" prior to the incident into there, too. Gotta go for that "scary black man" thing with a female jury.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Mark Osterman's wife. He is a friend of Z.
chelsea0011
(10,115 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)The defense is really reaching with this one.
Shrek
(3,983 posts)Anything?
chelsea0011
(10,115 posts)HipChick
(25,485 posts)George has already told different lies
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)this is just stupid.
razorman
(1,644 posts)of Martin and Zimmerman. Each testified that the voice screaming for help on the recording was that of her son. What else would a mother say? So, what was the point?
qazplm
(3,626 posts)you signal to the panel that even the mother of the victim didnt say it was her boy.
That's why you do it. Same the other way, it's to remove that argument from play.
razorman
(1,644 posts)After all, any mother will side with her son. It is only natural. I am sure that both of these mothers firmly believes in her son's innocence.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)Very annoying.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)Both the Mediate.com and WildAboutTrial.com are freezing like crazy.
madaboutharry
(40,218 posts)scroll down until you get to Naples News. Their feed is great.
Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #17)
Name removed Message auto-removed
madaboutharry
(40,218 posts)to make much of an impact on the jury. This is just ridiculous.
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)She has nothing to add IMO.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)because "Georgie" humanizes Zimmerman.
Pelican
(1,156 posts)calimary
(81,440 posts)I just hate this. Looks to me like that murdering vigilante bastard is gonna get off. It will be a damn shame and a miscarriage of justice, and mind you - it's just my opinion. What I'm seeing looks like a pretty slick defense presentation. To ME - I think the SOB is guilty as sin! He MURDERED that kid with no provocation after stalking him and menacing him, and he had a gun so I'm sure it made him feel like Marshall Dillon or Rambo or Clint Eastwood back in the "go ahead, make my day" days, or some such.
Dear God I hope I'm wrong. But as I watch the trial, I can't help but think "Georgie" is gonna beat the rap. And go back to his gunslinging again. And what seems TO ME as malice aforethought - Zimmerman had it all "figured out" ahead of time based on earlier prejudices and assumptions of the moment that the kid was a nogoodnik and he was going down. And maybe "Georgie" will even feel vindicated because the jury in effect will have said it's perfectly okay what he did. While that innocent kid is in a grave, having been "armed" only with a bottle of iced tea and a pack of Skittles.
Cold blooded killing, is what it looked like to me. One party winds up needing a fucking Band-aid and the other party is shot - TO DEATH.
Dear God I hope I'm WRONG!!!!
chelsea0011
(10,115 posts)afterwards. Good grief
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Seems like if they had any intent to give all the proceeds to him they already would have been doing that. The guy has no job and no way to pay the bills. They use his story to make money for themselves and now they claim that they'll give him that money they've already been earning all this time at some future date. Uh huh.
What a liar.
madaboutharry
(40,218 posts)Oh Pleeze.....
HipChick
(25,485 posts)Jim__
(14,083 posts)There is no doubt that the person screaming on the tape is Georgie.
chelsea0011
(10,115 posts)madaboutharry
(40,218 posts)She comes off as a liar.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)My next question is, "When did you last have a hearing exam?"
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)And she seems to think "asshole" is a term of endearment.
Who cares what this woman feels?
avebury
(10,952 posts)chelsea0011
(10,115 posts)is on the tape, but anyone else can testify whose voice it is.
Duckwraps
(206 posts)stated that the state of the art of voice recognition would not allow them to say one way or the other??????
csziggy
(34,137 posts)That said they excluded Zimmerman as being the one who screamed. But Florida uses the Frye standard and the result of a hearing about those experts excluded them from testifying.
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/zimmerman-defense-wins-frye-hearing-state-voice-experts-excluded/-/1637132/20674074/-/ctn8npz/-/index.html
premium
(3,731 posts)said their methods were junk science might have has something to do with the judge's decision.
whopis01
(3,522 posts)But it wasn't changed in time for this case. As of 7/1/2013, Florida no longer uses the Frye standard.
csziggy
(34,137 posts)Thanks!
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)crokerqueen123 on YouTube puts up the whole trial in segments every day, so you can watch it all at your leisure.
http://www.youtube.com/user/croakerqueen123/videos
JustAnotherGen
(31,869 posts)Back at work today so can't watch live.
1monster
(11,012 posts)KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)looking for the shot of GZ standing up because they always cut to GZ when the jury enters.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)since except for a little while today I haven't been able to watch live. It's unbelievable how much less time it takes when you can cut out the sidebars, breaks and all the other bits of nothing happening.
And the best part is you can pause it whenever you want to go take a bathroom break so you don't miss anything!
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)I'm sure he'll get questioned likewise as to opinions on the screams.
avebury
(10,952 posts)has coached Zimmerman and/or encouraged him in his vigilante efforts.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)This dude gives me the willies.
Anyone remember what department he works for? I can see his best friend the cop having a lot of influence as to how he was treated by the police. Makes me think it was him that Zimmerman was on the phone with right after the shooting when we know it was neither 911 nor his wife. People had been thinking it was his father, but I have a big suspicion it was this dude.
avebury
(10,952 posts)I would love to see what number he called. That could make for an interesting interview with the person on the other side of the call.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)and the Federal Air Marshal service has VERY high standards, it's supposed to be one of the hardest of the Federal law enforcement training schools to graduate from.
premium
(3,731 posts)and it is one of the most demanding of academy's to pass.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Border Patrol and so on and they all thought said that Air Marshals was the easiest.
The training time at the Academy is a fraction of ICE, Border Patrol and Customs LEOs.
https://hraccess-assessment.tsa.dhs.gov/Forms/PTATrainingGuide.pdf
While Air Marshals go 43 days the others go at least 4 months.
They probably have a higher standard for marksmanship and physical fitness but have less need for law, operations and language training.
Also it has the lowest morale of any Federal LEO, there is literally nothing to do.
The office in Las Vegas used to have over 400 agents and is now down to less than 70. Most of the most talented ones went on to other agenices and were never replaced.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)the "higher standard for marksmanship and physical fitness" was my basis for it being difficult, but I will also agree that classroom training is less then that of other agencies.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)chelsea0011
(10,115 posts)Zimmerman isn't in law enforcement.
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)He said these same type of things when he testified for the prosecution and I kept thinking, "Yeah, but he's not a cop." No wonder Z was delusional.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)I had to stop looking at him. There's something so weirdly like an animal or an alien with the strange things his face does.
targetpractice
(4,919 posts)Haven't noticed other witness sweat like he is.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Courtrooms are usually frigid, too. He's either got sweat gland problems or he's nervous as hell. Then again, I don't remember all this perspiring when he was on the stand before. It's pretty gross. Then again, I hate sweat. Horses sweat. Woman just... glisten. LOL!
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Normally when a person is getting questions asked and the individual is sweating it means nervous and trying to BS....I know that is not the case for all, but it can be somewhat normal.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)creepy and trying way to hard
Ninga
(8,277 posts)wrong guns is not working for me...and additionally, the continuos playing of the screeming makes is more plausible that it was young Trayvon....
Yikes more gun talk...not good.
And on edit: he is an Eddie Haskle smart ass type...
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)Especially because this is a trial about a kid that was shot and he seems way too happy to talk about guns.
Besides, he already testified. There's nothing new being covered.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)this is playing very well with that juror. All they need is one.
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)But they're all women which I think is good.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)HipChick
(25,485 posts)George Zimmerman had an internal holster meaning his gun was inside his waistband. Yet he claims Trayvon saw his gun? In the dark?
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)and would be visible if the covering garment rode up during the struggle. The photo of the holster indicates it is a IWB holster.
yardwork
(61,700 posts)In transcript of his questioning at the police station, Zimmerman says his gun is never visible. He says he walks around WalMart with it all the time and nobody ever noticed.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)as I stated in my last post, the grip would ride just above the top edge of the pants. He would wear something worn outside of the pants to cover the grip, such as a long shirt or the jacket he was wearing the night of the incident
yardwork
(61,700 posts)The gun that was used to murder Martin didn't have his fingerprints or DNA. The only person who says that Martin touched the gun is the killer, who has made numerous lies in an effort to save his worthless butt.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts), which were in a response to a question by another poster about the holster.
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)One hand over his mouth and one over his nose and saying, "you're gonna die tonight motherfucker."
louis-t
(23,297 posts)Ninga
(8,277 posts)establish that "citizens" do not have the same authority as officers.
chelsea0011
(10,115 posts)Jim__
(14,083 posts)I haven't listened to the whole trial. But, I hope the prosecution had them testify to that.
Ninga
(8,277 posts)Jim__
(14,083 posts)... from "Georgie's" friends.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)very credible witnesses. Especially his brother.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)It was hard to watch.
the screams sound like a young adult hispanic male rather than Trayvon Martin. I think I hear a slight accent, which I also hear on GZ's phone conversation.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)And you don't even know Zimmerman. You must have dog like hearing.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)What we experience as sound in the human brain is not what the FBI can study. Many subtle voice differences can only be determine in the human brain.
You'd be denying reality if you claim that the human brain can't determine subtle differences in the human voice.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)Why do you think sports fans argue about play and ref/ump calls until they are blue in the face?
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)It's because sports fans are prejudiced to side with their own team, and see things in the most favorable light for their side. That's pretty much happening here, too, the reich-wing seizes on their points, we latch on to ours, and only the jury's opinion counts.
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)I don't hear it.
The voice sounds young to me and I believe it was Trayvon. Have you ever heard Trayvon's voice?
premium
(3,731 posts)I haven't heard any accent at all. The only time I've heard Trayvon's voice was on the recording, I didn't hear any accent there either.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)No, I haven't heard Trayvon's voice. It would be nice if a sample was available.
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)Not that any of us are voice experts, but people can form their own opinions as I imagine the jury will.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)It was only a brief Trayvon Martin sample, but I still think it was probably GZ screaming.
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)But I'm glad you found another.
I think it's Trayvon. For one thing, the voice sounds higher and younger than Zimmerman's. But I'm no expert and screaming because you're afraid for your life maybe everyone sounds higher.
But, I have trouble believing the guy trained in MMA, with a 40lb weight advantage AND a gun was the one screaming. Plus Zimmerman claims Trayvon had his hands on his nose and mouth at the time so how was Z screaming? (There was no blood on Trayvon's hands. ) Just one of many cases where Z's story just doesn't add up for me.
I think Trayvon was screaming for his life right up until Zimmerman shot him.
JVS
(61,935 posts)I noticed that also.
louis-t
(23,297 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)it sounds like the screams of a teenage boy rather than George Zimmerman. I also hear no accent--just a terrified kid.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)In a trial, when in doubt, the advantage goes to the defendant.
Regardless, assuming as I believe that it was GZ screaming, it still doesn't make GZ innocent. GZ acted in a way that was very intimidating to TM unprovoked. By GZ's own admission, GZ made no effort to make TM feel at ease, such as stating his purpose for following TM.
GZ started the confrontation, even if TM started the fight; and GZ brought a gun, which he then used to kill TM when things quit going his way. That should be a crime.
In a civilized world carrying a gun around a neighborhood should be a crime, but the gun nuts control our laws.
premium
(3,731 posts)Nobody here has any clue as whether the jury will convict or acquit.
I have my own opinion on his guilt, by my opinion means squat on this case.
We'll all know soon enough.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)that things aren't going Zimmerman's way. Explain why these defense witnesses are credible.
I don't know where you get that, I'm laughing my ass off on all these "experts" here who probably have none to very little experience with the Criminal Justice System beyond watching Law & Order.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)n/t
premium
(3,731 posts)and raise you my 30+ years as a Federal Law Enforcement Officer who has testified in numerous criminal trials.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)I didn't question your experience. Did I?
premium
(3,731 posts)Let me clarify, most here got their info from shows like Law & Order.
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)And likely as the jury may see it as they are citizens most likely without Leo experience.
Why get on these threads if you think everyone is so beneath you? Honestly, condescension doesn't add to the debate.
premium
(3,731 posts)or calling lawyers creepy, skelator.
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)Although I agree with you on the name-calling.
This is a political message board. You're going to get all kinds of opinions.
premium
(3,731 posts)And I've been guilty of that myself from time to time.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)Just Saying
(1,799 posts)It's actually not clear who he's directed it at. Perhaps it's better just to debate the issues than to tell everyone in general that they don't know anything?
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)nt
premium
(3,731 posts)Response to premium (Reply #107)
uppityperson This message was self-deleted by its author.
Kingofalldems
(38,469 posts)people get their information?
premium
(3,731 posts)even though they're opinions, which we're all allowed to give.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)He said nothing whatsoever about your particular level of experience. He certainly didn't say you had none.
If you really are in law enforcement, I do hope you don't just make shit up, the way you did here, when you're filling out reports and testifying in court.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)I don't know where you get that, I'm laughing my ass off on all these "experts" here who probably have none to very little experience with the Criminal Justice System beyond watching Law & Order.
Thank you.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)He didn't say, or mean, all the people on the thread or on the forum. He was talking about all the people with those particular traits, i.e, "experts" with none to very little experience with the Criminal Justice System beyond watching Law & Order.
C'mon, man, this is basic reading comprehension. If you aren't one of the "experts" with none to very little experience with the Criminal Justice System beyond watching Law & Order, then he obviously wasn't talking about you.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)But he/she does? Seems like he/she is over generalizing. Do you not at least agree on that?
premium
(3,731 posts)it's my opinion, judging by most of the comments on this trial so far, that most of the people who think that they know what went on that night know very little about how our Criminal Justice System works outside of shows like Law & Order, CSI, etc.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)good day, sir.
I said, GOOD DAY!
premium
(3,731 posts)Finally starting to cool off here, it's only supposed to get to 106.
Wash. state Desk Jet
(3,426 posts)I have noticed much in the same. And I have noticed you use IMO and IMHO in your comments.
And 30 years plus-your input is valuable for those who want to understand the process-or learn something.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)You are guessing just as all of us are guessing.
There is no value in demeaning others' opinions
unless they are directed unkindly at you personally.
It doesn't uplift or educate anybody, or help
people see your point of view.
Even if you have that experience, doesn't make you
an authority on this case, any more than myself.
People here are engaged in trying to understand
what happened.
Often people without the baggage of being experts
can see things more clearly than those who are
firmly locked in their I know how it is box.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)testimonies, according to a reporter Tweeting from court, saw no one taking notes.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...with me
regards
premium
(3,731 posts)but you nor I have any idea what the jury will think.
Ninga
(8,277 posts)just might be ready to say "nothing to see here, time to move on"
premium
(3,731 posts)After all, this is FL.
Ninga
(8,277 posts)Does not in any way mean they find this testimony relevant or believable.
In fact, it might be better if they were gun owners!
premium
(3,731 posts)they may find it relevant and believable, we just don't know at this point.
Regardless, we should know whom they believed, the state or the defense.
Ninga
(8,277 posts)Ninga
(8,277 posts)it sets up a dangerous situation with the jury thinking she is being non-truthful, causing the jury to start thinking yep, it's Trayvon.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)premium
(3,731 posts)and I don't mind that others have opinions, I just find it amusing that think most are of the mind set that he's done and the jury is going to convict him, especially people who seem to know little about how our Criminal Justice System works.
How many here were convinced that Casey Anthony was going to be convicted? How many thought that O.J. was gong to be convicted?
I also don't like the name calling of witness' when just about everybody here knows nothing about them, but, that's just me, everyone is allowed their own biases or opinions.
In short, nobody knows what the jury will decide, I have my own opinion due to my observations of how the trial has progressed so far, but I too, could be wrong.
NatBurner
(2,640 posts)and i'm a gun owner
i'm more afraid of getting shot by one of these kooks than an actual criminal
if trayvon looked suspicious, then i'd make these damned fools shit their pants
Ninga
(8,277 posts)Just Saying
(1,799 posts)It's possible the more they play it the more the jury will be thinking that, too.
Ninga
(8,277 posts)madaboutharry
(40,218 posts)on the tape is helpful. They know him as a friend, not with the intimacy of a familial relationship.
avebury
(10,952 posts)when the Defense would present some actual evidence. A parade of friends wouldn't get very far with me.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)However, since this is a case where the affirmative defense of self-defense has been raised, the defense has to put forward a plausible argument of self-defense (nothwithstanding the state's burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt).
So it's a fair question from your point.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)as part of their case was TM's mother. The defense HAS to refute that, and give the jury the impression that she's only hearing what she wants to hear. They'll get into meatier witnesses in the next couple of days or so.
madaboutharry
(40,218 posts)Didn't they tell her not to do that?
Ninga
(8,277 posts)But...
How many fathers have EVER heard their child scream for their life in such a bone chilling desperate way? How many fathers - while in shock -!cpu
D believe such a sound could come from their child?
madaboutharry
(40,218 posts)Ninga
(8,277 posts)avebury
(10,952 posts)FMLA leave? How on earth could he be out of work that long on FMLA leave? That comment really got my attention. If true, it definitely makes Zimmerman look worse because it would have been a total abuse of that type of leave.
chelsea0011
(10,115 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)I think. It would use to take care or assist an immediate family member.
avebury
(10,952 posts)Zimmerman's injuries would not even come close to qualifying him for FMLA Leave. I would love to know more about that to determine if fraud was involved.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/
The FMLA entitles eligible employees of covered employers to take unpaid, job-protected leave for specified family and medical reasons with continuation of group health insurance coverage under the same terms and conditions as if the employee had not taken leave. Eligible employees are entitled to:
Twelve workweeks of leave in a 12-month period for:
the birth of a child and to care for the newborn child within one year of birth;
the placement with the employee of a child for adoption or foster care and to care for the newly placed child within one year of placement;
to care for the employees spouse, child, or parent who has a serious health condition;
a serious health condition that makes the employee unable to perform the essential functions of his or her job;
any qualifying exigency arising out of the fact that the employees spouse, son, daughter, or parent is a covered military member on covered active duty; or
Twenty-six workweeks of leave during a single 12-month period to care for a covered servicemember with a serious injury or illness if the eligible employee is the servicemembers spouse, son, daughter, parent, or next of kin (military caregiver leave).
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...old person
Ninga
(8,277 posts)be mutually exclusive activities.... When my son was burned, I had to stop my screaming because I could not think of what to do...I had to make myself calm down, because my brain wasn't working.
yardwork
(61,700 posts)After tracking the "suspect" and reporting him to authorities and being told that LEO were on their way.
Suddenly the armed man is in terror of his life? The 27 year old 200 pound man who goes to MMA training three times a week? terrified of a 17 year old holding candy?
Pathetic.
avebury
(10,952 posts)defense team going to trot out? If I were on the jury I would be thinking - "Is this the best that they can do?"
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)like who is the next witness, his mailman?
madaboutharry
(40,218 posts)but she doesn't think it would have a bearing on her testimony.
This testimony is really ridiculous.
avebury
(10,952 posts)twitter comments coming out of the courtroom?
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)However, no updates over the past hour. Usually they update every couple of minutes.
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)#trayvon or other key words.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)found him just searching keywords #zimmermantrial9 #Zimmerman etc. and see where it goes
@bobkealing
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)do some damage to their voice. Was Zimmerman hoarse or complaining of a sore throat at any point?
(My apologies to the DU'er who pointed this out that I didn't note your name! )
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)and didn't sound hoarse at all. Incidently, Osterman was there with him for the walk through with the police.
avebury
(10,952 posts)From Prosecutor - "that Omara paid for" sorry "Omara played for"
madaboutharry
(40,218 posts)to have hearing problems, except when it comes to identifying the screams.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)avebury
(10,952 posts)say (with a straight face) that they don't hear Zimmerman swearing? These witnesses are not doing Zimmerman any good. The Prosecutor is doing a good job at showing that the defense witnesses are full of sh*t.
Ninga
(8,277 posts)avebury
(10,952 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)No one seems the least bit upset that an unarmed teenager was shot while walking home. They listen to the tapes and not one of them shows any recognition that the gun shot heard took a child's life.
Even if my friend killed someone in self defense.... I would STILL be upset that a kid died at that sound.
Ninga
(8,277 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)black male.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)or angry. Says her sons use it all the time.
Probably, those "asshole" liberals.....
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)Zimmerman didn't recognize it was HIM screaming?!
He was the only one who could be screaming that night, why in the WORLD would he say that?!
regards
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)so if it IS GZ then he is screaming basically "HELP! I'm about to pull the trigger. HELP! I can't stop myself from shooting this kid. HELP!"
JustAnotherGen
(31,869 posts)It would be a crazy scream - but that's what it sounds like to me. If it's George he was definitely saying that.
JVS
(61,935 posts)uponit7771
(90,359 posts)riverwalker
(8,694 posts)all defense witnesses say that it was wind, and not Z running on the phone. Wonder if anyone looked into the weather statistics for that night?
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)n/t
madaboutharry
(40,218 posts)Not very windy at all that night.
I saw this chart on the live feed before court started this morning. I don't see how this would help the defense.
avebury
(10,952 posts)numerous "friends" then they can't be coming up with much of a defence. The more "friends" the Defense puts on, the worse things look for the Defendent.
Ninga
(8,277 posts)that a defendant should be well dressed in order to make a good impression.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)ugh........
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Experience with the way men sound under extreme stress.
all american girl
(1,788 posts)Oh, I don't think so. Now I'm getting annoyed.
Jim__
(14,083 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)all american girl
(1,788 posts)None of the listen to what was happening to their friend? None of them listen to the tapes at all? I call hokum. And this friend who bought him clothes for the trial...why couldn't zimmerman's family do that? Doesn't that just seem strange? Are they trying to portray him and his family as being so poor they couldn't afford clothes? Again, hokum.
avebury
(10,952 posts)about jury reactions today? I know someone commented seeing a tweet that the jury seemed bored earlier.
Ninga
(8,277 posts)might be losing my patience with how this is droning on and on.....big defense mistake to not limit Georgie's friends to a few genuine sounding witness. Ms Benjamin didn't help him.
Less is more, too much sickeningly sweet.
avebury
(10,952 posts)read through is tweets today. He indicated (and I would agree) that what is happening is a series of character witnesses being portrayed as fact witnesses.
Ninga
(8,277 posts)witness Benjamin.... Who believes that?
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)Zimmerman friend (Donnally, a PA "litigation expert" and husband of last witness is testifying that because he was a medic in Vietnam he is an expert in ....yelling?
He taught George how to tie a Winsor knot in his tie and was so touched.
Defense is crashing and burning.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)Seems like he has a hard time taking care of himself.
Next witness is going to tell us how he/she wipes Zimmerman's butt after "doo-doo".
Saturday
(3,744 posts)Poor Georgie. Oh wait, he's alive and Trayvon is dead.
Jim__
(14,083 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)He was a medic in Vietnam. He talking about the screams in combat which had to have brought back some very painful memories. He may be mistaken about Z doing the screaming, but I will cut him slack on the tears.
madaboutharry
(40,218 posts)Not very credible. I think the jury is going to just ignore all of the testimony about the screaming.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)and tried not to pay attention to discussions on television/radio.
Very credible.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)This stinks to high heaven.
Jim__
(14,083 posts)How lucky for the defense that he thinks the voice was Zimmerman's!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He seems super coached.
Ninga
(8,277 posts)Talk about the tape.....liar.
Me and my husband gossip like teenagers. There's no way they just ignored the elephant in the room.
Ninga
(8,277 posts)uponit7771
(90,359 posts)madaboutharry
(40,218 posts)That is the same thing this man's wife just said when she testified. But, they didn't "really" talk about the case to each other.
Saturday
(3,744 posts)and they're all willing to lie for him.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)Myrina
(12,296 posts)(paraphrasing) ... "Why did the prosecution only have TWO witnesses claim it was Martin's voice, when the defense keeps bringing ONE after ANOTHER after ANOTHER? Why only TWO? Why can't more people claim it was Martin? Unless it's because it WASN'T Martin!"
.... and her idiot co-host "Try this test, go into a WalMart and yell 'Mom'. See how many heads pop up. Every mother thinks when she hears yelling, it's her child."
What a couple of assclowns they are!!
avebury
(10,952 posts)My sense is they have not gotten a lot out of this morning. Refused AM break@RealJRWilson: @bobkealing What is the main jury reaction?
bob kealing ?@bobkealing 59m Alternate e-13 just looked at the ceiling while listening to this call-again. A lot of repetition on both sides this morning re calls.
bob kealing ?@bobkealing 1h Zimmerman appears detached this morning; sitting a good distance from Don West. Facing BDLR and jury.
Richard Hornsby ?@RichardHornsby 1h For those wondering, what we are witnessing is parade of #GeorgeZimmerman character witnesses mascaraed as fact witnesses. #zimmermantrialRetweeted by bob kealing
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)$1700 worth of suits. $3000 in donations to the defense fund.
Man is threatening to have a Vietnam flashback on the stand???? OMG.
yardwork
(61,700 posts)Gin
(7,212 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)"God damn you Walter! You fuckin' asshole! Everything's a fuckin' travesty with you, man! And what was all that shit about Vietnam? What the FUCK, has anything got to do with Vietnam? What the fuck are you talking about? "
JVS
(61,935 posts)Shrek
(3,983 posts)Twitterverse very protective of this witness. If Jury has same opinion of vet veracity and reaction to testimony - very effective witness.
avebury
(10,952 posts)I am turned off when an attorney tries to bring emotion into the trial mix and that is exactly what they did with bringing up the whole Viet Nam history. This guy has poured a lot of money into Zimmerman trying to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.
Edit to add: There is a huge difference from hearing men scream in Viet Nam and not hearing Zimmerman scream in anywhere near that type of situation prior to that night. If he had never heard Zimmerman at a time that Zimmerman thought his life was in danger then how does he now that he heard Zimmerman's voice as the screamer? Talk about apples and oranges.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)O'Mara is trying to establish virtue by association. So far, we've heard a Vietnam veteran and a Federal Sky Marshall testify positively in favor of GZ, and they both knew him personally. Who did the prosecution bring up who trashed Zimmy, or praised the character of Trayvon Martin?
You've got to worry about the jury disliking the defendant if you're his attorney, and this is a way to kill two birds with one stone.
patrice
(47,992 posts)I don't like what Zimmerman's face is doing to my balance.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)State seeks to halt animated re-enactment of Trayvon shooting
By Barbara Liston
SANFORD, Fla., July 8 | Mon Jul 8, 2013 11:15am EDT
(Reuters) - Prosecutors asked a Florida judge on Monday to block the jury in the George Zimmerman trial from seeing an animated re-enactment of the shooting of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, saying the video distorts the events of that fatal encounter.
Defense lawyers want to show the video to the six-woman jury that will decide the fate of Zimmerman, who is charged with second-degree murder and has pleaded not guilty, saying he shot Martin in self-defense.
State prosecutors argued that the video fails to show the Kel Tec 9mm pistol that Zimmerman, 29, a white and Hispanic neighborhood watch volunteer, used to shoot Martin, 17, once through the heart.
Prosecutors also objected because they said the animation video shows details of the fatal struggle based on the animator's "approximations," including the number of blows during the fight and how each body reacts to those blows.
avebury
(10,952 posts)It would be nothing more then a fairy tale. I wonder when the jury will get fed up with having their time wasted.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)riverwalker
(8,694 posts)the murder and instructed two unnamed employees of Defendant's law firm to
don "motion capture" suits while the witness directed them where to position
themselves and what actions to take, again based upon the aforementioned
approximations;
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)could be played by Samuel L. Jackson and Zimmerman can be played by Gabriel Iglesias
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)should be the one to do. If he doesn't take the stand, he shouldn't be allowed to have someone else do a reenactment of the scene. But, but, but judge, he can't do the reenactment because he's too fat play the buff Zimmerman who shot the boy...
And there you have it...another reason why Zimmy was fattened up...so, if he decided to take the stand, he could never be called to reenact what he did and therefore avoid imprinting in the jurors' minds a simulated image of him killing Trayvon.
avebury
(10,952 posts)Trayvon's father to the stand to try to get him to say that it was not Trayvon yelling for help. I think that he was probably a father who was in denial and didn't want to admit that it was his son.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)At this point, I don't think they want TM's parents on the stand any more.
avebury
(10,952 posts)I would have taken his reaction to hearing the tape as No more in the order of OMG No, my son!
If the Dad can get on the stand and deliver really emotional testimony about how he was in such disbelief that his son was dead and how gut wrenching it was to hear the tape - this whole thing was backfire on the Defense.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)Wondering what exception to hearsay that would fall under.
But since the prosecution gets a rebuttal case, they'll get to call Martin if they want. Might work in their favor, as it would leave the jury with one of the freshest testimony as the parent of the victim.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)...to testify to issues that were raised during the defense case.
It works the same with closing arguments. Prosecution gives its closing statement, then the defense, and then the prosecution gives a rebuttal to the defense's closing argument.
Response to avebury (Reply #218)
GreenStormCloud This message was self-deleted by its author.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)Gee, I'm sure that will make them look just swell....
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)His own father said it wasn't Trayvon's voice
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)So without expert testimony, the testimony over whose voice it was by witness recognition is pretty much a wash.
Not really "devastating" for either side. The jurors will just have to use logic as to whose voice they believed it to be.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)The state has to prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt. The prosecution cannot persuade on the assertion that it's Trayvon's voice when his own father says it wasn't. Absolutely devastating.
There's a reason the defense attorney paused after that answer, I could feel the hammer blow through the television.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)And they can call Tracy Martin in the rebuttal phase of their case, which might actually be to their benefit.
So not as big a deal as you might think.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)(and I'm not sure if they can, being as he was not one of the original witnesses when it was their turn) that would expose him to cross examination by O'Mara. While the prosecution could count on TM's mother to be sympathetic, they might not feel that way about Tracy Martin under cross-examination. All he'd have to do is blow up once at O'Mara, and the jury will think, "like father, like son". I'm sure O'Mara's been studying all the ways to push Tracy Martin's buttons, if he had the opportunity.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)regards
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)That's my question. This voice issue can be summed up thusly:
1) Zimmerman says "that doesn't even sound like me"
2) Trayvon's father says it wasn't Trayvon
3) Travyon's family member didn't object
4) Trayvon's other family said it is Trayvon
5) Zim's family says it is Zim
If I'm on the jury, this whole thing is a wash. But washes help the defense, not the prosecution. The prosecutor needs to convince them beyond a reasonable doubt. How could anyone be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt by this mishmash of testimony?
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...that said he was screaming for help not TM's father.
That's the reason why that comment SHOULD..>SHOULD be so devisstating to the defense
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Unless, someone else was screaming, it had to be Martin or Zman. Zman said it wasn't him. I think that is much more damming than Trayvon's dad mumbling it's not Trayvon when he first hears a tape of his son being killed for the first time.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)avebury
(10,952 posts)I look upon as a devastated father in total denial over his son's death. Think about it, if Trayvon had not been sent to his Dad's place that night he would be alive today. The Dad could be experiencing a boatload of guilt.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...no to the playing of the tape of his son screaming
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...now it seems like Tracy wasn't very definitive about the answer to the question about his son!!!
Why does that override the "...that doesn't sound like me..." response to the screaming from Zimmerman?!
Serino basically said he didn't pay much attention to that statement from Zimmerman!!!
WTF?
woolldog
(8,791 posts)But he does seem more neutral that you'd expect from a police officer. They usually go out of their way to help the prosecution and not to help the defense on the stand.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)woolldog
(8,791 posts)do you have a link?
Because he sounded awfully skeptical of Zimmerman's story during the interrogations I saw.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)woolldog
(8,791 posts)HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)sounds like the defense is ALWAYS guilty in their minds...
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Zimmerman should have been arrested and charged. Something happened to that crime scene. I believe that there is a great deal of collusion. That's why the cops are helping Zimmerman. They have a stake in this case. They could be sued for misconduct and negligence.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...set and the reaoson why TM's mother is really upset
Wash. state Desk Jet
(3,426 posts)As far as accents go ,voices are altered sometimes without the awareness of the speaker.
Take the British accent for example- you may have noticed in many cases it is not there when the musician is singing-it being the British accent , oh, Elton John or Paul McCartney examples. Some people can alter their voice at will ,others cannot. Most actors can.
Every person processes a high pitch sound usually expressed through fear of something terrible about to happen that is imminent ,or say in battle such as a sword having been lunged through the body .On the part of the second ,it may only happen once.
Person's who lose an accent ,say because their locality changes ,example somebody from Alabama moving to southern California -eventually the Alabama accent isn't there anymore.
The voice in the manner of speaking ,-changes.
A traumatic experience can change or alter a voice in a matter of an instant.
That's the key.
Lastly ,I happened to notice that neither Martin's mother nor Zimmerman's mother claimed that one or the other definitively knew that voice because when one or the other was about to be punished by being spanked or in the olden days back in the last century sometimes a strap was used when the child was very bad -,the child's voice came on in just that way when he was little. Or after having fallen off of a tricycle or fallen out of a tree -regarding sound of the voice on the recording. There was no point of reference with regards to a point to fact by either
Zimmerman's mother or Martin's mother.
I really don't think the jury will lend much credibility to either testimony about who thinks who it was. Going with the science is the best way to go on that one.
woolldog
(8,791 posts)Bernard I think is his name, is just awful.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)....words go to Z's favor!?
Come on...soemthings wrong here
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)WTF!?!?!?
Why would someone make a comment liek that in that situation!?!!?!?
avebury
(10,952 posts)I would really question Serino's credibility.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...z being smothered by TM...Serino basically said he doesn't see where TM smothered Z and Z replied "...that doesn't even sound like me..." as a defense and NOT some errant comment.
WTF is wrong with Serino!?
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...the question again?!
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)Obviously he wasn't in a proper state when the question was asked.
I'm certain now he'll be called on the state's rebuttal and will help add some proper context behind his answer.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)avebury
(10,952 posts)Zimmerman slack on his statement that it was not his voice but are so sure that a devastated parent was obviously saying it was not his son's voice.
I am so tired of Zimmerman getting such a free ride in this trial with the victim is the one actually being put on trial.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...time and it wasn't just some errant statement
Screw Serino...
I don't trust him now....he said the "sound like me" statement was he response of someone hearing their voice....that's BS...the line of questioning had NOTHING do with just some comment around Z's voice
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)by all the drug test they made Zimmerman give.
Oh wait, they didn't.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)I don't know.
I don't see how this helps Zimmerman.
This entire day has been a waste. First the random parade of Zimmerman's friends, then allowing hearsay testimony as to Tracy Martin's statements without a proper context, and now this guy.
Oh wait, the gym guy's gonna kick O'Mara's ass now. Maybe there is a point to today after all...
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)him.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)It's hard to ignore that Zimmerman had some form of MMA training and he was not a helpless little daisy on that night.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...doesn't make sense that a 200lb man with 3 times a week mma training and a gun can beat up a 150-ish lb 11th grade kid....so they're trying to frame the first punch being the most devastating
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)At least I think that is their intent.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)He could have been a quadriplegic and he'd STILL have far exceeded Martin in advantage - Zimmerman had the gun and Martin had no weapon.
After the defense harping on Martin's height trying to make it appear that it was Martin that was the big guy of the two they'd be a million times the fools for turning that on it's head and suddenly it was Zimmerman that had all the body mass advantage. Then again, they manage to go out of their way to look like fools.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)n/t
Ninga
(8,277 posts)be through the roof.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)avebury
(10,952 posts)3 days a week?
When I have been in serious gym mode (and I am not an athlete) I would have made a ton of progress in one year. If this guy is insinuating that Zimmerman did not achieve much in one years time then he needs to be giving Zimmerman back his money.
This guy is not a good advertisement for his gym.
all american girl
(1,788 posts)In feb 2012, I started working out 3 days a week, about 1 hour each. When I started, when I punched my son (18 years old) in the arm, he would laugh at me. By June, he was complaining that I was hurting him....he was a bit proud of his mommy . The workouts that I was doing was Zumba twice a week and aerobic boxing kicking thingy class....
In a year, he was never going to be at a competitive level, but he was going to be in much better physical shape.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)My son does Kempo and MMA, or at least he did up until a couple years ago when he started college. I can't imagine how incompetant a gym has to be if someone goes for a year, 3 days a week and can't get an unskilled teenage boy off of him.
I think this witness will backfire on them.
HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)and is nothing but muscle right now?
I don't get your point?
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)A year of MMA, 3 times a week, 6 hours a week should leave someone with enough skill to be able to get out from under a much smaller opponent with no fight training at all.
HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)how in shape does a person look after a year of MMA?
BTW wasn't it said that he took a couple months off? so it wasn't a full year?
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)In fact, I never saw anyone who was committed to training not learn basic skills.
I'm just not buying the story. Period.
HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)uponit7771
(90,359 posts)uponit7771
(90,359 posts)uponit7771
(90,359 posts)avebury
(10,952 posts)and not get into some type of shape?
HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)Incitatus
(5,317 posts)He didn't look the out of shape person he does now.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)...he improved, lost a lot of weight, but still had a huge way to go. He went from a 1/2 to a 1 on a scale of 0 to 10.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)Saturday
(3,744 posts)After all, no one is in as great as shape as him. *eyeroll*
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)uponit7771
(90,359 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)I guess the defense is attempting to skate on the prosecution's case and are just buying time to write the closing argument?
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)And that Z would be able to "shrimp" and get to his gun while TM is on top of him.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)uponit7771
(90,359 posts)HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)But you are correct, at least he was an active person. Better than a bunch a lazy people who eat horrible food.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)Love takes time.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)or go for a run.
okey dokey.
avebury
(10,952 posts)He might have been out of shape and overweight but it is amazing that he made so little progress in one year. I wonder if he paid a flat fee or had to pay by the class. Paying by the class would have encouraged the gym to drag things out.
And remember - this is a guy that wanted to be a cop!
I studied karate when I was in my 20s. Warmups, form and sparring were all a part of the classes from Day 1. I am in no way an athlete but by working hard I had my brown belt within a year and a half because I loved it and had so much fun. You progress by being challenged to grow in your skill not by being babied. I always wanted to work out with people who were a lot better the I was.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...training TM got which was zero
HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)you don't need training to be able to take someone down and hit them...
HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)maybe your metabolism is faster than his? maybe you eat better than him? These factors vary for everyone. 2 people can do the same workout but that doesn't mean that will get the same results.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)And never learned to throw a punch. The next trial should be Zimmerman suing to get his money back.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...skinny 11th grade kid
HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)9-10 months of MMA training at 3 days a week, not every day either..
I've seen small, light(not heavy) people run circles around bigger people and take them down. Big trees fall hard. Small and quick can do a lot against big and slow.
just from what I have seen.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...150lbn 11th grade teenager
HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)I said I have seen smaller people take down bugger people. period.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...the one who didn't
HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)uponit7771
(90,359 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)He was not doing well in school.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...to school....overall wasn't a bad kid relatively speaking
1monster
(11,012 posts)all american girl
(1,788 posts)uponit7771
(90,359 posts)HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)They are setting up to have TM knock Z down and get on top of him. First punch extremely powerful - often decides the fight. Mount, ground & pound - extremely difficult to get out of unless you are highly trained. "Shrimping" may have enable Z to get some freedom with his hips. The trainer is saying that Z was still soft.
They are setting themselves up to introduce TM as a young street-fighting thug with a chip on his shoulder.
That is going to be very difficult for the prosecution to counter.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...up 50 ft away from the "T" where his car was.
Z said TM sucker punched him at the T...
TM's body was 50ft away from the T
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)The trainer is only addressing Z's physical skills, not locations.
avebury
(10,952 posts)cross examination something along the lines of:
Well that would explain why Mr. Zimmerman felt a need to carry a gun.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)avebury
(10,952 posts)that Zimmerman was incapable of defending himself it makes it far more likely that Zimmerman had his gun out when the tracked Martin and more likely that he jumped the gun and shot Trayvon. Zimmerman wasa the agressor from the first moment.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)The trainer testifed that Z was physically soft. He did not testify about priors. In fact, I don't thing Z's priors have been raised in the trial.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)if GZ himself got on the stand. That's not going to happen.
HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,191 posts)They are calling Tracy Martin.
Should be interesting to see how this turns.
madaboutharry
(40,218 posts)HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)instead of everyone just hearing that he supposedly said no that wasn't his son.
madaboutharry
(40,218 posts)HeroInAHalfShell
(330 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)I think that will be a major mistake for the defense.
avebury
(10,952 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)avebury
(10,952 posts)so Omara really didn't gain anything from it.
Edit to add: The only thing that would have made it sweeter is if they could have ended court today after Tracy was on the stand so that the Jurors could think about his testimony all night long.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)He has to present the most vigorous defense possible. That means he can't soft-pedal a prosecution witness.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)He and his lying, murdering client.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)avebury
(10,952 posts)I think that he is credible and stoic. Omara is not going to get any kind of a victory out of this.
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)...stand his motivation at thsi point other than covring his butt
avebury
(10,952 posts)thinking "Oh sh*t, why did I do that?"
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Bad move on their part.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)1. By calling him as a witness, they get to control when he testifies, better now (for the defense) then on the last day of testimony.
2. Right now the defense is calling into question the manner of how the voice id was done by Martin's family in that it was not done by the police and it was not done in a manner recommended by the police chief and FBI expert.
3. Laying groundwork to imply that the entire trial is politically motivated since the City Manager and/or Mayor are not normally involved in police work.
They also deposed Ben Crump over the weekend. Did Crump say something that will allow the defense to bring into evidence something that would cast serious doubt on the testimony of Martin's family or Rachel?
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)Thanks.
madaboutharry
(40,218 posts)avebury
(10,952 posts)law enforcement officer.
Edit to add:
Omara wants to have a guy testify about how LEOs react to incidents like this. As I said, Zimmerman is not a LEO.
Evidently the Jury cannot be relied up on to use common sense.