Updated: Quebec Disaster: "You have to understand: there are no wounded. They’re all dead.”

[cali]

Last edited Sun Jul 7, 2013, 07:47 PM - Edit history (2)

<snip>

But then nothing happened. The wind blew the smoke in the opposite direction and no patients with any of the serious burns and other injuries that might have been expected arrived at the emergency room.

Bernard Théberge received second-degree burns on his right arm while fleeing from the patio of the downtown Musi-Café, where many are thought to have died, but he said he hadn’t seen any other burn victims when he went to the hospital Saturday.

One Red Cross volunteer who asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to speak to the media put it bluntly: “You have to understand: there are no wounded. They’re all dead.”

That absence of injured is one of the most haunting signals to have emerged from the train explosion, which police says has left five people confirmed dead and about 40 people unaccounted for nearly two full days after the first blast.

The Quebec coroner’s office said that the five corpses they have hauled out of the wrecked downtown core have not been positively identified and have been taken to Montreal for forensic testing that may include DNA examination and other methods. Spokesperson Genevieve Gaudrault said the intensity of the initial blast and the flaming wagons that were still burning well into Sunday suggests that some victims may have simply been vapourized.

<snip>

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/07/07/lac_megantic_hospital_eerily_quiet_after_quebec_explosion.html

<snip>

Each tanker carried 30,000 gallons (113,000 liters) of crude oil. Four cars caught fire and exploded in a orange and black fireball that mushroomed hundreds of feet into the air and flattened dozens of buildings, including a popular bar.

Police spokesman Michel Brunet said about 40 people were missing after the derailment. "There could be more, there could be less," he said. Few residents expected any of the missing to be found, given the devastation.

<snip>

n the past year, crude producers began shipping much more oil on rail cars instead of pipelines, which are at capacity. Previous accidents led to messy spills rather than life-threatening explosions.

<snip>

Lac-Megantic, a town of 6,000 on the edge of a deep blue lake and ringed by forests of pine and birch, is in the predominantly French-speaking province of Quebec, about 160 miles (255 km) east of Montreal and close to the border with Maine and Vermont.

About a kilometer away from the train's wreckage, water along the lake's edge had a sheen and the rocks appeared oily. Emergency crews had placed booms in the water near the explosion site to prevent oil from drifting.

<snip>

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/07/canada-train-idUSL1N0FD0CX20130707

Train operator blames air brakes for derailment, explosions in Quebec

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/train-operator-blames-air-brakes-for-derailment-explosions-in-quebec/article13057401/

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. Is there a concise report of what they suspect happened?

These damn news stories alway use stupid terms like "driverless" and "tanker cars", which shows they don't know shit about railroading.

Is there anything out there yet that addresses just what went on up there?

[cali]

2. a few stories go into some detail regarding what is currently thought to be known

<snip>

The Montreal, Maine & Atlantic train had five locomotive engines and 73 cars filled with light crude oil, and was parked in the village of Nantes - about 7km (four miles) from Lac-Megantic - during an overnight driver shift-change, a company spokesman told Canada's La Presse newspaper.

The railway's chairman, Edward Burhardt, quoted by CBC, said an engineer had parked the train and put the brakes on "properly" before going to a local hotel for the night.

The cars filled with fuel somehow became uncoupled, causing them to roll downhill into the town and derail, said the spokesman, Joe McGonigle.

<snip>

more at link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23215855

This article says a criminal probe is being conducted and the scene is being treated as such.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/07/07/lac_megantic_death_toll_rises_in_quebec_train_derailment_explosion.html

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. Thank you, cail and suffragette -

This whole thing doesn't smell right. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find criminal activity played a role here. Trains don't just uncouple themselves and roll away, if they are properly secured by the crew.

[leeroysphitz]

62. This sounds like the work of eco-terrorists. n/t

[suffragette]

3. Timeline of what they know so far

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Mégantic+fire+timeline/8626739/story.html

Friday, 11:25 p.m.: An engineer from the Montreal Maine & Atlantic Railway ties down a train carrying 72 tankers filled with crude oil and five locomotive units in Nantes, approximately 11 kilometres outsides of Lac Mégantic. According to the MMA he had stopped for a crew change and then retired to a nearby motel for the evening.

11:30 p.m.: A citizen in Nantes calls 911 after seeing a parked locomotive on fire between Nantes and Lac Mégantic. Firefighters arrive on the scene and are able to extinguish the blaze.

Saturday, 1:15 a.m.: The first explosion in Lac Megantic is reported, followed by at least two others. Initial reports suggest 30 buildings are destroyed. Much of downtown is flooded with crude oil and fire. Patrons of a crowded bar flee. Many remain unaccounted for.

1:15 a.m. to 4 a.m.: Explosions continue to rock the town as cars containing oil ignite. Firefighters and volunteers are alerted and begin assessing the scene. They receive backup from Montreal and surrounding areas. Firefighters come from as far as Farmington, Me., to help manage the crisis. About 1,000 people are removed from the area because of toxic fumes and dangerous particles.


More at link.

[magellan]

22. This is odd

11:30 p.m.: A citizen in Nantes calls 911 after seeing a parked locomotive on fire between Nantes and Lac Mégantic. Firefighters arrive on the scene and are able to extinguish the blaze.

That's nearly two hours before the first explosion. No explanation for the locomotive being on fire...it's just put out. I wonder if the cars came uncoupled somehow at this point?

[suffragette]

32. Seems odd to me, too

Has there been any more info on it elsewhere?

[FarCenter]

39. Video of the train on fire at Nantes

http://fr.video.canoe.tv/video/en-vedette/en-vedette-aujourdhui/1906868890/explosions-a-lac-megantic-un-wagon-en-feu-apercu-a-nantes-quelques-heures-plus-tot-la-video-dun-temoin/2530685510001

Can someone translate the French?

[laundry_queen]

40. It doesn't say much

The narrator is just describing where she is (we are in route to Lac-Mégantic for a party (I think) where we were stopped and we see a locomotive on fire). Her and some guy talk about it being quite a high fire, then the video cuts off. It repeats the same snippet of video several times.

[malaise]

30. Heard someone say that many of the missing folks were likely to have been

vaporized. That's some scary shite.

[suffragette]

33. That is scary

And it has to be hard for those wondering if friends and family are ok somewhere or gone.

[cali]

34. from what I've read, they aren't wondering. they know.

[suffragette]

36. Tragic

Have only looked in DU off and on today since at family gathering, so just seeing snippets.

Heart goes put to them.

[bluedigger]

4. Five confirmed dead, forty missing.

MONTREAL — Five people are confirmed dead and about 40 remain missing in Lac Mégantic after a cargo train carrying crude oil derailed and exploded just after 1 a.m. Saturday morning, sending balls of fire shooting into the air.

“It is a very large number, and hopefully we'll find some of them elsewhere,” Sûrete du Québec spokesperson Michel Brunet said on Sunday.

No further details were available about the deceased.

SQ officers have only been able to access a small part of the explosion site, where firefighters were still trying to extinguish the remnants of the huge blaze that consumed much of the town's centre early on Saturday morning.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/least+five+dead+M%C3%A9gantic+train+derailment+explosion/8625646/story.html

I expect the number will climb as they gain access to more of the area.

[cali]

5. shit. this is so ghastly. and it could happen in so many locations, particularly in the Northeast

As was pointed out the town is destroyed not just from the fire, but this pristine area has been poisoned on land and water.

[bluedigger]

7. The Gazette has several other interesting articles today.

Also, first responders from as far away as both Sherbrooke and Farmington were (are?) on the scene.

[cali]

8. At least the number of missing has gone down from 60 to 40

though that's still beyond ghastly- particularly for a town of 6,000.

The President of the MM&A Railways said this:

“We’ve had a very good safety record for these 10 years,” he said of the decade-old railroad. “Well, I think we’ve blown it here.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/quebec-police-expect-more-deaths-after-1-person-is-killed-in-oil-train-derailment/2013/07/06/6893bd38-e6ac-11e2-97c2-eee7eab7397e_story.html

No kidding, they've blown their safety record. To smitereens, much like the downtown of Lac Megantic

[bluedigger]

9. Yeah, I noticed that colossal understatement, too.

I think many of the missing were reported multiple times by different family members. Then there's this:

Benoit Quérion was inside a bar in the town's centre with about six others when the explosion happened.
"They're all dead,” he said, when asked if he thought any of the others had survived.

After hearing the first explosion, he ran outside the bar. He said that amidst the smoke and flames he couldn't see anything left of the train cars that exploded.

“I ran like hell. I was chased by the fire,” Quérion said.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/least+five+dead+M%C3%A9gantic+train+derailment+explosion/8625646/story.html

[chimpymustgo]

50. K&R! This wasn't even on the news this morning! I completely missed the story, until your post!

Thanks.

[dembotoz]

10. reporting seems sort of an afterthought with the plane crash

got a kind of feeling that in retrospect this might be much more of a disaster

[cali]

11. Oh, it's a far, far worse disaster. Really no comparison

this is not only a tragedy in terms of loss of life- and that's greater than the plane crash in SF,- it's a big environmental tragedy on both land and water. the pristine Chaudiere River had large but still unknown quantities of oil dumped into it as did Lac Megantic. Oil spilled on the land itself and the toxic fumes were so bad that another thousand people had to be evacuated yesterday afternoon. and that's without mentioning 30 buildings completely flattened.

This is not only a major disaster but one with big policy implications.

[bluedigger]

12. It's more about the location of the event.

More people were on hand to witness the event at the airport in San Francisco than live in Lac Megantic.

[cali]

13. Maybe. And San Francisco is a major city that everyone knows

and is in the U.S. Lac Meguntic is a small town in Canada in a rural area.

[bluedigger]

14. And if you were a reporter which would you cover?

A tragedy near the fine dining of Fisherman's Wharf, or one in a small town where all the restaurants have burned down in the middle of black fly season?

[cali]

15. lol. (not that there's much to laugh at)

I have a great black fly story. Years ago when I was working at the State's Attorney office, a 2 guys, both murderers escaped from prison in Georgia, called the State Troopers outpost and asked to be picked up because they'd been so badly bitten by black flies..

[bluedigger]

16. It's human nature to find humor in tragic events.

Keeps us clinging to our sanity in the face of the inexplicable. Good story.

[cali]

17. If I keep kicking this, it's not only because it's a major tragedy that isn't getting much attention

but because this event has major implications for how we transport oil and for the future of the keystone xl pipeline and the northeast pipeline. We don't know yet if the crude spilled was tar sands oil, but odds are that it was. Tar sands oil, as we know, is more polluting and more difficult to clean up than regular crude.

[stuntcat]

19. ty

k & r!! I hope people will pay attention.

[malokvale77]

37. I read it was from the Bakken field in N. Dakota

[cali]

18. 40 hours later and fires are still burning. areas still unaccessible

to search teams. There are 40 officially confirmed missing. It's almost a certainty that these poor folks are dead.

<snip>

Fire officials confirmed that three out of the five tankers that were burning had been extinguished with foam. Two more are still on fire and are at risk of explosion.

Police said because of that ongoing situation, they haven't been able to access all areas. However, they did say investigators have been on the scene overnight speaking to witnesses.

<snip>
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2013/07/07/quebec-train-derailment-explosion-lac-megantic.html

[cali]

20. kick

[cali]

21. I so don't get the lack of interest here in this human, enviromental and infratructure disaster

with huge policy implications.

Is it that it's Canada?

[Cleita]

23. There's nothing to disagree with, hence the crickets I assume.

I'm answering to push it on top of the first page, and send it to the greatest page, so others don't miss it.

[cali]

25. Thanks Cleita, but we're DUers, I'm sure we can find something to disagree about here

[Bluenorthwest]

60. Our Canadian DUers never speak of Canadian issues. Why is that?

nt

[laundry_queen]

61. Um, I've been posting on cali's threads

I'm not usually one to start an OP though. Often when a Canadian posts on Canadian issues it gets moved to the Canadian forum. Or it sinks like a stone.

[cali]

63. you certainly have been and I appreciate it. n/t

[City Lights]

24. Awful. Just awful.

[TeeYiYi]

26. k+r ..nt

TYY

[Brickbat]

27. The quote from the company in the Globe&Mail story is confusing to me.

According to the company, the train’s locomotive was “shut down subsequent to the departure of the engineer,” depriving the train’s air brakes of the power needed to keep the load from careening downhill.

The default for air brakes is "braking." You have to activate the system -- such as turning the engine on -- to release the brake. If the loco was off, the brakes would be braking. I can't figure out why those cars were rolling if they had uncoupled from the locos.

[Amonester]

42. Lac Megantic's survivors are asking politicians why the train had just ONE engineer...

instead of TWO (when ONE takes a well-deserved break, the other stays in charge of the train wreck).

DUH!

The CAPITALIST oïl bastard$ always want to save a buck, Monsieur Le Ministre De L'Environnement.

Dare pass a LAW that FORCES them to HIRE two employees for such dangerous matters???

[exboyfil]

45. Regulation

You know all regulations are bad. Just ask the folks of West, TX. (sarcasm alert)

[Brickbat]

49. Many shorter lines have gone to one engineer instead of an engineer and a conductor to "save money."

The Class 1 railroads push for it as well, and in some places, get it. But even if there were two people in the cab, they have to get off at the end of their shift.

[octoberlib]

28. Kick!

Thanks for posting. This is horrifying!

[cali]

29. and not the least of it is that this lovely place is polluted for some time to come.

though right now the human loss is the most dreadful part.

[idwiyo]

31. Horrible. Best wishes for everyone there.

[cali]

35. the black box has been recovered

Black box found, may hold clues to cause of deadly Quebec train derailment

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/black-box-found-may-hold-clues-to-cause-of-deadly-quebec-train-derailment-1.1357264#ixzz2YPZ62oei


and lots of information about possible causes here:

Investigators Probe Quebec Rail Disaster

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324867904578592081518973900.html

[A Little Weird]

38. How awful!

I haven't heard a lot about this event. My heart goes out to the people of Lac Megantic and all of Canada.

[laundry_queen]

41. K&R for you and for Lac-Mégantic

This hasn't been forgotten in Canada anyway, it's been on the news continuously.

You are right - this is huge, really huge. It's a human tragedy and an environmental catastrophe. There are many towns in Canada (and the US I'm guessing) where the railway runs right through the center of town. Many implications to this disaster.

One of the big problems with rail companies in Canada - not much regulation. Not too long ago in Calgary right after the flood, environmental disaster was narrowly averted when a bridge collapsed with some fuel and oil filled cars on it which nearly plunged into the Bow river. Luckily, the bridge stopped mid-collapse (it was a slow collapse) and they were able to get all the cars off the bridge. At the time, Mayor Naheed Nenshi (look him up - he's someone to watch in the future) criticized cuts at the railway companies, saying cuts have put the railway infrastructure at risk. He was upset that the city of Calgary couldn't inspect the rail bridges after the flood - apparently all rail infrastructure is solely the responsibility of the rail companies. This could be another instance of this - too few regulations by the government and too much oversight simply left to railway companies - companies that are well known for cutting costs extensively. NDP leader Tom Mulcair alluded to this today on his visit to Lac-Mégantic. If rail companies are going to be hauling oil at an increasing rate every year there needs to be more oversight.

[cali]

43. Why the U.S. media has been so lacking on this story, I'll never know

thanks for interesting info.

Lac Megantic was a lovely town. I grieve for those who have lost people and for everyone in the area.

[cali]

44. Deadly Derailment in Quebec Underlines Oil Debate

<snip>

Unlike pipeline proposals, however, the escalation of rail movements of oil, including light oil shipments from the Bakken fields as well as from similar unconventional, or tight, oil deposits in Canada, is not covered by any regular government or regulatory review.

“We have an explosion of tight oil production in Canada and the United States, and most of it is moving by train,” said Anthony Swift, a lawyer with the Natural Resources Defense Council in Washington. “But this process has happened without due diligence.”

Keith Stewart, a climate and energy campaigner with Greenpeace Canada who has examined the increased use of oil trains, criticized railways in Canada and the United States for continuing to use older oil tank cars that he said were found to be unsafe more than 20 years ago.

A 2009 report by the National Transportation Safety Board about a Canadian National derailment in Illinois called the design of those tank cars “inadequate” and found that it “made the cars subject to damage and catastrophic loss of hazardous materials.” Television images suggested that the surviving tank cars on the Lac-Mégantic train were of the older design.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/08/world/americas/deadly-derailment-in-quebec-underlines-oil-debate.html?_r=0

[pinboy3niner]

46. Tank car conclusions/recs from NTSB investigation of the 2009 IL accident

Excerpts from NTSB's synopsis of its investigative report:

Railroad Accident Report - Derailment of CN Freight Train U70691-18 With Subsequent Hazardous Materials Release and Fire
Cherry Valley, Illinois
June 19, 2009

NTSB Number: RAR-12-01
http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/2012/cherry_valley/index.html

...

Conclusions

15. If enhanced tank head and shell puncture-resistance systems such as head shields, tank jackets, and increased shell thicknesses had been features of the DOT-111 tank cars involved in this accident, the release of hazardous materials likely would have been significantly reduced, mitigating the severity of the accident.

16. The safety benefits of new specification tank cars will not be realized while the current fleet of DOT-111 tank cars remains in hazardous materials unit train service, unless the existing cars are retrofitted with appropriate tank head and shell puncture resistance systems.

17. Requirements for protection of the top fittings of the DOT-111 tank cars involved in this accident are inadequate because the protective housings were not able to withstand the forces of the derailment.

18. The existing standards and regulations for the protection of bottom outlet valves on tank cars do not address the valves' operating mechanisms and therefore are insufficient to ensure that the valves remain closed during accidents.

19. Tank car design standards for the attachments of draft sills to sill pads and of sill pads to the tanks are insufficient to protect the integrity of the tanks in accidents in which the draft sills are subjected to significant downward deformation.

...

New Recommendations

To the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration:

5. Require that all newly manufactured and existing general service tank cars authorized for transportation of denatured fuel ethanol and crude oil in Packing Groups I and II have tank head and shell puncture resistance systems and top fittings protection that exceed existing design requirements for DOT-111 tank cars.

6. Require that all bottom outlet valves used on newly manufactured and existing non-pressure tank cars are designed to remain closed during accidents in which the valve and operating handle are subjected to impact forces.

7. Require that all newly manufactured and existing tank cars authorized for transportation of hazardous materials have center sill or draft sill attachment designs that conform to the revised Association of American Railroads' design requirements adopted as a result of Safety Recommendation 9.

To the Association of American Railroads:

9. Review the design requirements in the Association of American Railroads Manual of Standards and Recommended Practices C-III, "Specifications for Tank Cars for Attaching Center Sills or Draft Sills," and revise those requirements as needed to ensure that appropriate distances between the welds attaching the draft sill to the reinforcement pads and the welds attaching the reinforcement pads to the tank are maintained in all directions in accidents, including the longitudinal direction


http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/2012/cherry_valley/index.html

[liberal_at_heart]

47. This is the first time I've heard of this. OMG. That is horrifying!

[cali]

48. The U.S. Media is doing a for shit job covering this major story

right next door. Lac Megantic is hardly inaccessible.

[bluedigger]

52. 40 still missing after Quebec oil train crash

LAC-MEGANTIC, Quebec — A Quebec town devastated when a runaway oil tanker train ignited explosions and fires braced Monday for what authorities assured would be a rising death toll as fire crews tried to reach the hardest hit areas more than two days after the disaster. Five were dead and about 40 people remained missing.

...

Worries remained late Sunday over the status of two oil-filled train cars at the scene. They were being doused with water and foam to keep them from overheating.

"This is an unbelievable disaster," said Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who toured the town Sunday and compared it to a war zone. "This is an enormous area, 30 buildings just completely destroyed, for all intents and purposes incinerated. There isn't a family that is not affected by this."

...

The train's oil was being transported from North Dakota's Bakken oil region to a refinery in New Brunswick. Because of limited pipeline capacity in the Bakken region and in Canada, oil producers are increasingly using railroads to transport oil to refineries.

The Canadian Railway Association recently estimated that as many as 140,000 carloads of crude oil will be shipped on Canada's tracks this year — up from 500 carloads in 2009. The Quebec disaster is the fourth freight train accident in Canada under investigation involving crude oil shipments since the beginning of the year.

http://www.sunjournal.com/news/nation/2013/07/08/40-still-missing-after-oil-train-crash-quebec/1389863

Not much new to update...

[cali]

53. It doesn't appear that they'll be able to recover much in the way of bodies

How unthinkably ghastly for the families and friends.

[IdaBriggs]

51. Kick. nt

[cali]

54. Evironmental aspects to this disaster

The formerly pristine Chaudiere River has been heavily polluted. There are eyewitness accounts of the river running orange. It was a drinking water source for several towns downriver (which in this case is north as that is how the river flows) It's headwater was Lac Megantic which has also been polluted. Air quality is still dangerous.

[Sgent]

55. Policy implications?

This seems to me to be a giant reason to build more pipelines -- since they are the safest method of transporting oil. From an environmental perspective, I wonder what would be worse -- occasional spills or the pipeline cutting across land.

The best solution is to stop (or reduce) our oil consumption, but assuming that its not going to go down (hopefully it won't increase), it seems to me that oil pipelines are safer and more efficient (so less pollution) in transporting...

Not an easy thing to grapple with.

[cali]

56. But the spills from pipelines are much larger

I just don't know what the answer is when presented, as we are, with 2 terrible choices.

I don't know as much about Keystone, but the Exxon Enbridge Northeast Pipeline strikes terror in my heart. It already exists. It's a 60+ year old pipeline from Canada to Portland Maine. It currently carries light crude from Portland to Canada. They want to reverse the flow and pipe tar sands oil from Canada to Portland. It runs through some of the most pristine areas of Northern New England and across the Connecticut River. It runs through the Northeast Kingdom where I live, an area increasingly dependent on eco tourism.

The Northeast Kingdom is bisected by Interstate 91/U.S. 5. On the east it is bordered by the Connecticut River. The highest point is Jay Peak at 3,858 feet (1,176 m).[2]

The Kingdom encompasses 55 towns and gores, with a land area of 2,027 square miles (5,250 km2), about 21% of the state of Vermont.[3] The city of Newport is the single incorporated city in the tri-county area.

As of 1997, 80% of the Northeast Kingdom was covered by forest.[4] 59% was northern hardwood, 29% spruce or fir.

The Northeast Kingdom has been listed in the North American and international editions of "1,000 Places to See Before You Die", the New York Times best-selling book by Patricia Schultz. In 2006, the National Geographic Society named the Northeast Kingdom as the most desirable place to visit in the country and the ninth most desirable place to visit in the world.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Kingdom

[bluedigger]

57. We need to stop externalizing the price of gas.

US gas is too cheap, because we subsidize profits and externalize costs of production. There will always be environmental and health risks associated with our carbon fuel dependency and transitioning away from that culture requires that we regulate the production and transportation of fuel responsibly to properly mitigate the dangers.

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/gas-prices/

[snappyturtle]

58. My first reaction to this "accident" is that it is unbelievable. But it isn't, is it?

What do these rich s.o.b.s in the oil industry think they're accomplishing using old equipment? They certainly have the money. Of course expenditures for better equipment would cut into the bottom line.

As far as I am concerned the dead were slaughtered and sacrificed for big oil....as was the environment.

[cali]

59. you're right. It's not unbelievable and it is a crime- even if it's not sabotage

It was predicted, accurately, by multiple people. Rail transport of oil in Canada has increased 28,000 percent since 2005.