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mnhtnbb

(31,389 posts)
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 07:53 PM Jul 2013

Anybody else feel like not celebrating the 4th of July today/tonight?

We often--not every year--go to the fireworks display put on by the Town of Chapel Hill
at Kenan Stadium on the campus of UNC. Tonight we are not going.

Told hubby a couple of hours ago that I'm just not feelin' it this year. I admit to being
seriously disturbed by the actions of the NC Legislature over the last few months. It does
not feel like we are living in a democracy: feels more like tyranny here. The Republican governor
and legislature have made it very clear they could care less about the opposition to the cuts in
education, unemployment benefits, health care, and now abortion rights. Plus they are gearing
up to implement voter id requirements.

We're staying home tonight.

How about you?

166 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Anybody else feel like not celebrating the 4th of July today/tonight? (Original Post) mnhtnbb Jul 2013 OP
Yep, quiet night at home..... peacebird Jul 2013 #1
First year in years I am not at the beach with my dog hollysmom Jul 2013 #2
Sorry about the beach house. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #12
I live 1 block from the fireworks in this town hollysmom Jul 2013 #21
Have you ever tried a thundershirt for your dog? I know people who say mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #59
one night a year, we will survive, she is not terrible hollysmom Jul 2013 #68
my border collie doesn't care about the fireworks... grasswire Jul 2013 #74
Wow! We had a 22 pound tabby. That's a big kitteh! mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #92
I just saw one @ the pet store today lunasun Jul 2013 #129
I have one for my little terrier mix. MsPithy Jul 2013 #139
Watching the Twilight Zone Marathon and not heading down to National Mall.. HipChick Jul 2013 #3
I too had been watching the Twilight Zone marathon TxDemChem Jul 2013 #102
Yup, never have been a big fourth of July person quinnox Jul 2013 #4
I hear ya. HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #11
yup, I thought cowboy-style diplomacy was going to go out with Bush quinnox Jul 2013 #37
No. El Supremo Jul 2013 #5
You are moving?? madinmaryland Jul 2013 #117
You are weird. El Supremo Jul 2013 #118
I'm not the one moving to Vicksburg. madinmaryland Jul 2013 #123
Do you even know what I'm talking about? El Supremo Jul 2013 #124
Do you even know what you are talking about? madinmaryland Jul 2013 #130
Cry me a river JohnnyBoots Jul 2013 #6
Pardon me. My husband is a vet. The 4th is about celebrating the Declaration of Independence mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #10
Precisely Sherman A1 Jul 2013 #13
Thank you! mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #20
really? i love when people say shit like this pasto76 Jul 2013 #113
And, if the left hadn't protested the war so passionately and so convincingly, MsPithy Jul 2013 #146
Better question: What is YOU'RE problem? dgibby Jul 2013 #153
Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #16
I believe Sherman A1 Jul 2013 #23
Thank you. My husband spent many years of his professional life mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #27
I certainly appreciate your husband's service Sherman A1 Jul 2013 #36
It was rude. Now hidden. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #56
Excellent! Sherman A1 Jul 2013 #63
Agree. deutsey Jul 2013 #57
My anti-American views! Unbelievable. Have you been watching too much Faux News? mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #24
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, truebluegreen Jul 2013 #26
+1000... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #126
Way to go, "Molly!" pangaia Jul 2013 #107
You do know the 4th of July isn't Memorial Day, right? HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #17
Part of the freedom of being an American is choosing whether to celebrate the 4th, and what quinnox Jul 2013 #47
This message was self-deleted by its author Agschmid Jul 2013 #64
I find your posts overly rude. Is that necessary here? nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #93
Keep your day job. dgibby Jul 2013 #154
Nope. Going to watch the fireworks from Potomac Park. Recursion Jul 2013 #7
Enjoy! I may turn it on TV. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #14
i have to work,but i'm not much into large crowds so usually don't JI7 Jul 2013 #8
If there is no fog, I can actually see the fireworks on the beach from my house. Cleita Jul 2013 #9
I'm so disillusioned that I'm not celebrating at all. MrSlayer Jul 2013 #15
I hear you. If I wasn't with the family I would not make the effort. dkf Jul 2013 #49
I haven't paid it any mind for years TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #18
I hope you have a peaceful evening. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #29
not with the gits next door shooting off boomers TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #76
Damn! Hope the iced tea didn't get into the keyboard. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #95
We stay home every 4th, but it has nothing to do with politics. n/t MerryBlooms Jul 2013 #19
My suggestion: H2O Man Jul 2013 #22
Splendid idea. The Constitution needs its own day of honor. Without the tanks. leveymg Jul 2013 #39
Don't go into area where folks have access to guns and love to use them, though. KoKo Jul 2013 #116
I really had to make myself Blue_In_AK Jul 2013 #25
The only time my town allows them marlakay Jul 2013 #35
We can only do private fireworks certain places Blue_In_AK Jul 2013 #50
Good for you for serving in a leadership role. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #58
Thank you. Blue_In_AK Jul 2013 #115
I don't feel up for it, ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #28
Be careful! We used to get fireworks and set them off for the kids too...years ago. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #31
I'm sure I'll have fun since I'll be with my family, ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #41
We are staying home too marlakay Jul 2013 #30
Well, enjoy your evening at home. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #33
Staying home because I have the best view of the fireworks in the whole valley. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2013 #32
My husband is related to one of those signers. They did indeed put their lives on the line... mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #38
I promise to raise a glass in Mr. Stockton's honor. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2013 #43
Thanks! mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #55
Enjoy the fireworks! We have friends in Ft. Lee, NJ who always have a 4th of July party mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #42
Thank you very much and I'm sorry you're not feelin' it. Those things happen I guess. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2013 #45
I'll feel better when the right wing idiots who seem to have taken control mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #51
"Knowing they might be chased to the ends of the earth by the King" Divernan Jul 2013 #101
Anybody watching PBS Capital Fourth? Am watching and I see my sister and her southernyankeebelle Jul 2013 #34
I just turned it on a few minutes ago. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #52
Nothing better on tv tonight. Good entertainment. No place better to be on the 4th. southernyankeebelle Jul 2013 #98
Yes, I am! femmocrat Jul 2013 #66
:woohoo: "Sweet Caroline"! femmocrat Jul 2013 #71
She very pretty. Honestly I never heard of her before. she has a lovely voice. southernyankeebelle Jul 2013 #100
Yes, I think I saw Hoyer! I hope Ilsa Jul 2013 #128
Yes they had a blast. Although my sister,her husband and her twins daughters were southernyankeebelle Jul 2013 #158
I rarely do anything on the 4th MadrasT Jul 2013 #40
Nope. Because of all the rain we are having in North Georgia, RebelOne Jul 2013 #44
We've had monsoon rains in FL. HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #46
Where in North Georgia? Hubby used to have family in Dahlonega. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #53
My sister says we should wear red to celebrate....told her I would wear black as I am mourning. dkf Jul 2013 #48
Mourning? Political? Care to elaborate? mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #54
Mourning the profound betrayal of our constitution. dkf Jul 2013 #62
I agree. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #91
"Patriotism is the most foolish of passions and the passion of fools." Schopenhauer Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2013 #60
which is why I prefer to see today as a celebration of this: dixiegrrrrl Jul 2013 #125
I am not down on celebrating it, if you want to, but I'm not into it this year myself deutsey Jul 2013 #61
Frankly I do not wish to celebrate Sherman A1 Jul 2013 #65
Well, I hope you have a peaceful evening so you can get to work rested in the AM. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #80
I am celebrating and in Boston it's quite moving... Agschmid Jul 2013 #67
I'm with you! I plan to put in a LOT of hours prior to the 2014 election here. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #78
Heavy rain kept me home today.. No Vested Interest Jul 2013 #69
We've had a lot of rain here, too--and flooding--in the last week. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #90
It seems the whole eastern half of the US has had a lot of rain. No Vested Interest Jul 2013 #103
Heavy rain and flooding here in Va. dgibby Jul 2013 #156
What a sad story. No Vested Interest Jul 2013 #162
I don't have to leave the porch. femmocrat Jul 2013 #70
Hope your pooch does ok. Ever tried a thundershirt for the dog? mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #77
No, but she is tucked in to her crate. femmocrat Jul 2013 #94
Aw. Give her an ear scritch for me. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #97
Same here / in your neck of the woods (NC), mnhtnbb mike dub Jul 2013 #72
Enjoy your evening! mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #75
Yall do the same! Thanks, mnhtnbb!!! eom mike dub Jul 2013 #83
OK, neighbor! mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #88
This message was self-deleted by its author davidn3600 Jul 2013 #73
I haven't for about a decade. Just another day with the added soundtrack of a war outside. morningfog Jul 2013 #79
Guns Ruined It For Me otohara Jul 2013 #81
going downtown cause my fav blues band is playing madrchsod Jul 2013 #82
Enjoy the music! mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #85
I am on my third day of strep throat and tonsillitis so it was a jello and sherbert Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #84
Oh, no! Ugh. Feel better soon. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #86
I am still seething about the court doing away with the Voting rights act kimbutgar Jul 2013 #87
That about sums up what's going on in NC. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #89
I don't feel like celebrating either Sanity Claws Jul 2013 #96
I never considered it what it's "supposed" tblue Jul 2013 #99
Not up for it this year... AsahinaKimi Jul 2013 #104
By myself this year! hrmjustin Jul 2013 #105
No more 4th of July for me RILib Jul 2013 #106
Home, but with this celebration, thanks to ellenq UTUSN Jul 2013 #108
^^^^^This^^^^^ love_katz Jul 2013 #135
K&R DeSwiss Jul 2013 #109
What do fireworks look like in the rain? ReRe Jul 2013 #110
Probably not too bright! Enjoy. We had flooding from so much rain on Sunday. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #141
you got that right Chaco Dundee Jul 2013 #111
Ack! I hope not! mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #142
I haven't felt like it in a very long time Warpy Jul 2013 #112
The Booms Started...and we usually go up on usual hill to watch... KoKo Jul 2013 #114
I think that we should use public events to do more voter registration. Coyotl Jul 2013 #119
After spending the day nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #120
There was an article in the Minneapolis Star Tribune about how hard Independence Day can be for vets dflprincess Jul 2013 #131
Funny story nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #133
I'm with you on the deck... 2naSalit Jul 2013 #152
I'm not doing a thing. blueamy66 Jul 2013 #121
I just don't like going out when MrsBrady Jul 2013 #122
Emblematic of Republican state legislatures and State houses pissing big-time on the people with indepat Jul 2013 #127
Staying home with my kitteh. love_katz Jul 2013 #132
Nicely said. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #140
My neighborhood is going nuts with noise right now dflprincess Jul 2013 #134
See, so many of these right wing types have no sense of history at all. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #144
Take an upper. RBInMaine Jul 2013 #136
Rarely celebrate it unless I get dragged to a relative's cookout. MotherPetrie Jul 2013 #137
Staying home to make sure the neighborhood idiots kiva Jul 2013 #138
Don't feel like celebrating anything this year. Boomerproud Jul 2013 #143
It's sort of sad that I've spent a lot of today fantasizing about emigrating. Arugula Latte Jul 2013 #149
My husband and I worked at creating a place for us to do just that. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #161
Yes, it's tricky to leave. Arugula Latte Jul 2013 #163
True. One of the reasons for Panama was its acceptance of retirees (forget Canada or NZ) mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #164
Yep. Just not in the mood. Brigid Jul 2013 #145
Oh! Did Something Happen? ChiciB1 Jul 2013 #147
Not feeling it this year at all. Arugula Latte Jul 2013 #148
Yes, up in Prescott ChazII Jul 2013 #150
Watched a little on PBS, most of the words seemed useless Corruption Inc Jul 2013 #151
Smoked some good pot, turned B Calm Jul 2013 #155
So sorry about what's going on in North Carolina, mnhtnbb Cha Jul 2013 #157
What would we be celebrating? marions ghost Jul 2013 #159
I hope so, too. mnhtnbb Jul 2013 #160
Yeah, things were so much better fifty years ago WatermelonRat Jul 2013 #165
Become informed marions ghost Jul 2013 #166

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
2. First year in years I am not at the beach with my dog
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 07:58 PM
Jul 2013

lost the beach house, can't take the dog anywhere away from the fireworks, a night in an air conditioned home with windows shut and tv on loud.

mnhtnbb

(31,389 posts)
12. Sorry about the beach house.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:04 PM
Jul 2013

We had a dog who HATED fireworks. She's no longer with us. This one doesn't seem to mind them.

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
21. I live 1 block from the fireworks in this town
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:08 PM
Jul 2013

living in the center of town is convenient for a lot of things, but the 4th with a dog is not good. Ashes will fall on my house tonight, the dog will be using the "basement bathroom" tonight.

mnhtnbb

(31,389 posts)
59. Have you ever tried a thundershirt for your dog? I know people who say
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:45 PM
Jul 2013

they have worked miracles for their dogs.

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
68. one night a year, we will survive, she is not terrible
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:53 PM
Jul 2013

it isjust too close, One night a year, she will survive, at lease she is way better than the border collie, who used to shake. Holly just wants to be close to me and not go outside.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
74. my border collie doesn't care about the fireworks...
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:59 PM
Jul 2013

...but my 23 pound tabby cat is behind the toilet at the first bang.

MsPithy

(809 posts)
139. I have one for my little terrier mix.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 11:04 PM
Jul 2013

I would say the results are mixed. The pops and booms go on for days, here. Because of that, she has heightened nervousness and I think her hearing is incredibly acute, she reacts to things I don't hear. She still pants and drools and tries to hide. If her suffering is relieved a little, hard to tell.

If it is a thunderstorm with one or two booms, she recovers quickly.

A Chihuahua at our dog park used to bark (nervousness) the entire time he was there, with the Thundershirt (which he wears every day, now) no more barking. So, I have definitely seen it work.

The drawback is of course, the expense. If your dog only has problems on the 4th, maybe desensitization is the way to go.

Good luck.

TxDemChem

(1,918 posts)
102. I too had been watching the Twilight Zone marathon
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:28 PM
Jul 2013

Until it was time for me to wind down and get ready for bed. I did enjoy a 1959 episode that I'd never seen before.
I have to work tomorrow so I've already got my ear plugs in and have taken my sleeping pills.
With everything happening in Tx, no one in my family feels like celebrating.

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
4. Yup, never have been a big fourth of July person
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 07:58 PM
Jul 2013

And in light of the recent news, such as the USA embarrassing itself internationally, it doesn't exactly make me feel "extra-patriotic-y" today, that is for sure. Very ironic timing of all this.

madinmaryland

(64,933 posts)
117. You are moving??
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:56 PM
Jul 2013

Does that mean we will see another avatar change?

Wonder if my avatar will change when I move??

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

NOT!

 

JohnnyBoots

(2,969 posts)
6. Cry me a river
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 07:59 PM
Jul 2013

The 4th is not about you,but rather all those who have sacrificed and bled to make this great country what it is. Get over yourself...

mnhtnbb

(31,389 posts)
10. Pardon me. My husband is a vet. The 4th is about celebrating the Declaration of Independence
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:01 PM
Jul 2013

It is not Memorial Day.

Cry yourself a river.

pasto76

(1,589 posts)
113. really? i love when people say shit like this
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:50 PM
Jul 2013

what manner of declaration would it have been without an army to back it up? you'd still be flying the union jack and have dentures if it werent for the Continental Army. you know its not always the right that makes me feel like a dope for having spent my adult life in the army. half the time its the left.

sorry you arent "feeling it" btw lady. But this country and its history is a lot bigger than you and this foreseeably short period of right wing lunacy in your state. Staying home and not recognizing it, then posting some glib BS on an internet forum...forgive me if I dont try and spell it out for you. Thank your husband for his service. What I say to people these days - because _I mean everybody_ has a husband, uncle, friend, brother who is a 'vet' (funny how many since less than 1% of the country ever serves, but whatever) is this; what was your problem? You dont get to ride the coat tails of a vet.

MsPithy

(809 posts)
146. And, if the left hadn't protested the war so passionately and so convincingly,
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 12:03 AM
Jul 2013

you would still be stationed in Vietnam. Have you ever once, thought to thank the millions of protesters who forced congress to stop funding the war and saved, god only knows how many, of your brothers-in-arms, maybe even you.

You're welcome.

dgibby

(9,474 posts)
153. Better question: What is YOU'RE problem?
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 05:17 AM
Jul 2013

You think your stint in the army gives you the right to go off on someone who's expressing her feelings about the sorry state of affairs we find ourselves in this country this 4th? I think not.

A couple of things you should know:

First, everyone who served was not someone's husband, uncle, friend, or brother. Some of us were someone's mother, sister, aunt, daughter.

Second, the saying in the military goes " I may not agree with your opinion, but I'll fight to the death to defend it", or at least that's what the Navy taught me during the 22 years I served.

Third, and possibly the most important, "Navy Wife: hardest job in the Navy". That goes for the Army, AF, MC, and CG, too. Your comment about "riding the coat tails of a vet" is insulting, and you are bringing shame on the Army by representing them in such an offensive manner. You're not doing yourself any favors, either.

Personally, I'm with the Op on this one. I didn't feel like celebrating, either.




Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #10)

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
23. I believe
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:09 PM
Jul 2013

that such a comment in unnecessary and frankly rather rude.

The 4th is neither Veteran's Day nor Memorial Day.

mnhtnbb

(31,389 posts)
27. Thank you. My husband spent many years of his professional life
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:12 PM
Jul 2013

taking care of Veterans, on top of serving in the Vietnam War.
He is Major, USAF, Retired.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
36. I certainly appreciate your husband's service
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:19 PM
Jul 2013

and offer my thanks to you both. That said, no matter my agreement or disagreement with your feelings on celebrating the 4th, the comments made by the poster were both factually incorrect and as I stated simply rude.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
26. "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time,
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:11 PM
Jul 2013
and your government when it deserves it."--Mark Twain

That's what I do. Are you one of the love-it-or-leave-it bunch?
 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
47. Part of the freedom of being an American is choosing whether to celebrate the 4th, and what
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:32 PM
Jul 2013

the fourth of July means to one on a personal level. You don't get to decide that for others. Maybe you should get over your own self, instead.

Response to JohnnyBoots (Reply #6)

JI7

(89,250 posts)
8. i have to work,but i'm not much into large crowds so usually don't
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 07:59 PM
Jul 2013

go out anyways. i prefer to just hang out in a small group or alone .

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
9. If there is no fog, I can actually see the fireworks on the beach from my house.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:00 PM
Jul 2013

There is no need to go down there.

 

MrSlayer

(22,143 posts)
15. I'm so disillusioned that I'm not celebrating at all.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:05 PM
Jul 2013

I just feel that there is no hope for the country anymore. Both parties are corporately owned creeps that have no intention of ever doing anything good for the People. And is so much more disappointing because "our" side is right there in bed with the worst of the worst.

It's not just the spying, it's the immigration reform designed to undercut Ametican workers, the next free trade agreement that is so horrible it had to be classified, unemployment staying horrible while benefits are being cut, all the ALEC bullshit going on in the states, the destruction of education and so on and so on.

I don't see anything to celebrate. We're lost at sea with no way back. Reaganism has won and we've all lost.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
18. I haven't paid it any mind for years
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:06 PM
Jul 2013

Frankly, I can't wait until it's over with since my dog doesn't like the noises. Actually, neither do I. Sudden loud noises make me jump and go into panic mode at least physically. I have anxiety issues that this shit doesn't help.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
76. not with the gits next door shooting off boomers
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:03 PM
Jul 2013

right next to my car. The last one made me jump so high I sloshed my iced tea all over the desk. One more of them and I'm calling the cops. Geez, these people make me crazy. How did I get stuck living next door to most asinine and annoying people on earth?

Thanks for your concern!


mnhtnbb

(31,389 posts)
95. Damn! Hope the iced tea didn't get into the keyboard.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:18 PM
Jul 2013

We've had some real winner neighbors, too. SO annoying. Hang in there.

H2O Man

(73,543 posts)
22. My suggestion:
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:08 PM
Jul 2013

Go out tonight. If people of conscience stay home, only an unconscious crowd will be there. Carry a sign, or bring some art. Years ago, we used the American flag for symbolic reasons; perhaps today the Constitution should be advertised.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
116. Don't go into area where folks have access to guns and love to use them, though.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:55 PM
Jul 2013

These days to carry a sign in protest is not a good thing on a 4th of July Fest. There are touchy people out there who are not understanding in many areas of the USA today.

Not saying that if you are in a more gun controlled area with common thinking folks that one shouldn't carry a protest sign, though. But, many of us don't live in places like that anymore these days. Particularly on a night that brings out those who are super patriotic who would take offense.

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
25. I really had to make myself
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:10 PM
Jul 2013

go walk in our parade with the Anchorage Democrats, mainly because I'm a state district chair and I feel duty-bound to show up for these things. It wasn't too bad, but I didn't stick around for the celebration.

And fireworks here on the 4th are anticlimactic since it's not even dark. Our good fireworks are on New Year's Eve and Fur Rendezvous in February.

marlakay

(11,468 posts)
35. The only time my town allows them
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:18 PM
Jul 2013

Is in the winter so mid jan after ice festival we have them locally. Love in winter too!

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
50. We can only do private fireworks certain places
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:37 PM
Jul 2013

out in the Mat-Su Valley north of here. Last year our assembly passed an ordinance allowing them in the city limits, but it didn't go over so well with a lot of people, so now we're back to just the official ones (not that it stops anyone from setting them off in the neighborhoods, despite the threat of a $300 fine). But, yeah, winter fireworks are far superior and much less dangerous as far as fires and so on.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
28. I don't feel up for it,
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:13 PM
Jul 2013

but I have kids and bag of fireworks, so I'll be celebrating tonight for them. If my typing sucks more than usual tomorrow, it probably means I blew off a finger.

mnhtnbb

(31,389 posts)
31. Be careful! We used to get fireworks and set them off for the kids too...years ago.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:15 PM
Jul 2013

One of my nephews came damn close to blowing off a finger one year.

Be careful! Have fun.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
41. I'm sure I'll have fun since I'll be with my family,
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:21 PM
Jul 2013

and hopefully all ten digits will still present when we're done.

marlakay

(11,468 posts)
30. We are staying home too
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:14 PM
Jul 2013

We were going to next town over to see fireworks on river but wouldn't be home till after midnight and husband found out he has to go to work early.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
32. Staying home because I have the best view of the fireworks in the whole valley.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:16 PM
Jul 2013

Our fireworks are launched from a barge on Big Bear Lake and my back deck has an unobstructed view from about 300 yards away. Gonna be an awesome show! The ribeyes are marinating, the shrimp are skewered, the beer's chillin' and company has arrived!

I can't fucking wait.

Oh, in answer to your last question.... We're celebrating the fact that 56 men put their lives on the line by signing a document that effectively changed the ENTIRE WORLD, KNOWING they might be chased to the ends of the earth by The King. One was only 26, one was 70, and two were future Presidents. That's fucking awesome and worth noting, if not celebrating if you ask me.

mnhtnbb

(31,389 posts)
42. Enjoy the fireworks! We have friends in Ft. Lee, NJ who always have a 4th of July party
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:22 PM
Jul 2013

because they can go up to the roof of their building and see all the fireworks for miles!

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
45. Thank you very much and I'm sorry you're not feelin' it. Those things happen I guess.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:25 PM
Jul 2013

Independence Day is one of my favorite times of the year.

I Hope you feel better soon...

mnhtnbb

(31,389 posts)
51. I'll feel better when the right wing idiots who seem to have taken control
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:37 PM
Jul 2013

of many State houses (including NC) have been removed from
places of power and influence.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
101. "Knowing they might be chased to the ends of the earth by the King"
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:27 PM
Jul 2013

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

Sleep safe and sound tonight, Edward Snowden. You're a patriot in the tradition of the Founding Fathers.

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
34. Anybody watching PBS Capital Fourth? Am watching and I see my sister and her
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:17 PM
Jul 2013

family sitting next to Steny Hoyer in the third row. They look like they are having a blast. There really is no better place to be on the fourth of July in the DC,MD and VA areas.

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
100. She very pretty. Honestly I never heard of her before. she has a lovely voice.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:25 PM
Jul 2013

Oh I love the John Phillip Sousa music.

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
158. Yes they had a blast. Although my sister,her husband and her twins daughters were
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 07:26 AM
Jul 2013

with them because they invited them I thought I saw them but now I'm not sure because the camera moved around so fast. We had rain all day and night. So we didn't get to have fire works where we live in our little rural town in Tn. I'm getting sick of the rain. Did you have them in your area?

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
40. I rarely do anything on the 4th
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:21 PM
Jul 2013

I am an Aspie and crowds and noise are not my thing

Just had along vacation with the family so everybody is just chilling at home

Worst part of it is all my dumbass neighbors who suddenly think they are pyrotechnic geniuses - God I hate those noises - totally unsettles me

However I am fairly patriotic and still appreciate the idea of the United States - even if it has taken a very weird fork in the road which makes me feels sad

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
44. Nope. Because of all the rain we are having in North Georgia,
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:22 PM
Jul 2013

all fireworks displays have been cancelled to late dates in August or Labor Day.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
46. We've had monsoon rains in FL.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:29 PM
Jul 2013

As far as I know, no fireworks have been postponed, but several outdoor concerts have been cancelled or moved.

 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
48. My sister says we should wear red to celebrate....told her I would wear black as I am mourning.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:34 PM
Jul 2013

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
61. I am not down on celebrating it, if you want to, but I'm not into it this year myself
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:47 PM
Jul 2013

I personally believe our liberties are under siege and have been for at least a decade.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
65. Frankly I do not wish to celebrate
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:51 PM
Jul 2013

I am not real happy with the state of things as you so eloquently placed in your post. On top of that Holidays (all of them) are simply more work for me and fireworks come too late in the evening for my work schedule. It's a very early shift in the AM and that simply doesn't work with watching fireworks.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
67. I am celebrating and in Boston it's quite moving...
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:52 PM
Jul 2013

Sorry you feel the way you do but all is not lost and remember every few years we get to overthrow our government.

Let's work to make it count next time!

No Vested Interest

(5,166 posts)
69. Heavy rain kept me home today..
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:54 PM
Jul 2013

I had bought some red-white-blue pinwheels and was planning to go across town to the cemetery where my forebears and my spouse are buried and to decorate the graves with the pretty little pinwheels. Grass too wet - it's a hilly cemetery.

Thinking I'll still go- Sat. or Sunday- and decorate. The deceased won't mind it being a little late, and it'll please me to see them blowing or just sitting there looking pretty.

mnhtnbb

(31,389 posts)
90. We've had a lot of rain here, too--and flooding--in the last week.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:14 PM
Jul 2013

I used to find it soothing to visit our daughter in the cemetery. Hope your visit
will do the same for you.

No Vested Interest

(5,166 posts)
103. It seems the whole eastern half of the US has had a lot of rain.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:31 PM
Jul 2013

I don't mind too much - rain is really a blessing, though I prefer it it in the overnight period - better sleeping and not interfering with other plans. It's hilly here where I live, though the low areas can get flooded. Landslides due to excess rain is common, though.

I've been to the Durham/Chapel Hill area many time in the last 17 yrs. Attended a Duke-affiliated program many times. It's a lovely area, and I can understand why many choose to retire there, with the academic and health facilities of both Duke and UNC available.

I do hope North Carolinians swerve back to the Dem side of the aisle sooner rather than later. We've been overtaken by Republicans here in Ohio, and it's not pretty.

dgibby

(9,474 posts)
156. Heavy rain and flooding here in Va.
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 05:35 AM
Jul 2013

A friend of my niece's drowned while trying to unclog a culvert because flood waters were overwashing his driveway and heading to his house. His shovel broke and he fell in, got sucked into the culvert. She jumped in to try to save him, but couldn't, and almost got sucked in, too. He left a wife and 2 sons.

Nice people,too. In addition to both of them working, they ran a cat sanctuary.

Needless to say, not much celebrating here.

femmocrat

(28,394 posts)
70. I don't have to leave the porch.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:54 PM
Jul 2013

Our yahoo redneck a-hole neighbors will put on a big fireworks display like they do every year.

Yes, they are illegal here. And yes I have a dog who is terrified.

femmocrat

(28,394 posts)
94. No, but she is tucked in to her crate.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:17 PM
Jul 2013

Hiding waaaaay in the back, beside the dryer. We can't let her our because she gets panicky and will crawl into some tiny space and then we have to dis-lodge her.

Thanks!

mike dub

(541 posts)
72. Same here / in your neck of the woods (NC), mnhtnbb
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 08:57 PM
Jul 2013

I've had alot of time-off recently (weddings, etc), so I actually Worked today, and I'm taking tomorrow off as "the 4th".
Coworkers took today off, and are headed back to work tomorrow. Me, I prefer contiguous Friday-Sat/Sun off, so I worked the 4th because I couldn't afford the 4 day weekend.

And we're sitting on the sofa right now with the hounddogs, watching A Capitol 4th. Very lowkey.

Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

 

otohara

(24,135 posts)
81. Guns Ruined It For Me
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:05 PM
Jul 2013

Fucking split one of our smaller towns in two over the parade, it got canceled, then rescheduled with guns/ no ammo. CBS Network news last night showed this company that makes magazine clips and is supposedly leaving the state give out clips and sell them at a discount. The whole site made me sick - men grabbing clips as if they buy them in any state around CO.

But now I'm watching Fun. play at The White House BBQ for the troops.... I love Fun.

madrchsod

(58,162 posts)
82. going downtown cause my fav blues band is playing
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:05 PM
Jul 2013

this year the city`s festival firework falls on sunday. i won`t be going

Mojorabbit

(16,020 posts)
84. I am on my third day of strep throat and tonsillitis so it was a jello and sherbert
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:06 PM
Jul 2013

night thus not much in a celebratory mood even without the feeling of having my hopes dashed in general re the trajectory of the country.
How's that for a run on sentence! It has been over forty years since my tonsils acted up. I feel like a youngster again except even more impatient. LOL

kimbutgar

(21,153 posts)
87. I am still seething about the court doing away with the Voting rights act
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:08 PM
Jul 2013

Plus I am upset that the republicans are doing a coup by taking over state legislatures and taking away people's right. The republicans are an organized crime family who are destroying our country and too many brainwashed stupid people are letting them get away with it. It's a sad state of affairs in this country today. We here at DU are the real American patriots not the fox followers who are the real idiots.

mnhtnbb

(31,389 posts)
89. That about sums up what's going on in NC.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:11 PM
Jul 2013

We don't have the right of recall, either. NC is 1 of 12 states without a recall process.

We're stuck with this legislature until 2014--and due to the gerrymandering it's gonna' be
really tough to throw out a lot of the Repubs even then. And then we have the Repub governor
until 2016.

Sanity Claws

(21,849 posts)
96. I don't feel like celebrating either
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:19 PM
Jul 2013

The day felt very different to me.

Around here, a lot of stores remained open. I remember when all stores closed for the 4th. Things felt very different today from usual Independence Days.

tblue

(16,350 posts)
99. I never considered it what it's "supposed"
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:24 PM
Jul 2013

to be -- about freedom and liberty. It's just a day for fireworks and relaxing.

AsahinaKimi

(20,776 posts)
104. Not up for it this year...
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:31 PM
Jul 2013

I had a little BBQ chicken, that really didn't come off a grill. I went outside for a bit, but having recently come home from the hospital, I wasn't really up for a crazy July 4th. I watched the movie: DUNE. Not the old one but the newer version. Its was okay, but not as good at the original one. I am with a friend on line, listening to some soft jazz.. and trying to stay relaxed.

 

RILib

(862 posts)
106. No more 4th of July for me
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:36 PM
Jul 2013

I respect the Founding Fathers and Mothers and their principles. The country no longer resembles that in the slightest.

UTUSN

(70,695 posts)
108. Home, but with this celebration, thanks to ellenq
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:40 PM
Jul 2013

Last edited Sun Jul 7, 2013, 09:55 AM - Edit history (2)

*********QUOTE********

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/04/35-founding-father-quotes-conservative-christians-will-hate/#ixzz2Y7qPxGgM

[font size=5]35 Founding Father Quotes Conservative Christians Will Hate[/font]

Author: Stephen D. Foster Jr.


The separation of church and state is one of the cornerstones of America’s foundation. Conservative Christian fundamentalists have sought to crush this cornerstone in the hopes of establishing Christianity as the state religion, an action that would threaten the rest of the foundation that makes up the Constitution. These conservatives contend that the Founding Fathers dreamed of making America a Christian state at the expense of those who practice other religions or none at all.

So on this occasion of our nation’s founding, here are 35 quotes from the Founding Fathers. Perhaps your first thoughts are the first four Presidents and maybe Benjamin Franklin, but there were many other Founding Fathers. Many were signers of the Constitution and The Declaration of Independence. They were lawyers, judges, soldiers, merchants, farmers, and some were even clergy. And the great majority of them signed the Constitution knowing that matters of government and matters of religion would be separate.

These are hardly the words of men who allegedly believed that America should be a Christian nation governed by the Bible as conservatives constantly claim. On the contrary, the great majority of the Founders believed strongly in separation of church and state. So on Independence Day, keep in mind that this country has survived for over two centuries under the principle of separation and it is only now when conservatives are attempting to destroy that very cornerstone that we find America becoming ever more divided and more politically charged than ever before. If this right-wing faction has their way, America as we know it will cease to exist and the freedoms we have enjoyed because of the Constitution will erode. The Founding Fathers had a vision of this nation and trusted that the people would protect that vision and improve upon it. Now is not the time to fail them. Because the day the people fail, so does America.


1. “If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]liberty of conscience[/FONT] insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny[/FONT], and every species of religious persecution.”
~George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789

2. “Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by a [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought to be deprecated[/FONT]. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.”
~George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792

3. “We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition[/FONT]… In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man’s religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States.”
~George Washington, letter to the members of the New Church in Baltimore, January 27, 1793

4. “The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses[/FONT].”
~John Adams, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” 1787-1788

5. “[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion[/FONT].”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by John Adams

6. “Thirteen governments (of the original states) thus founded on the [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery[/FONT], and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”
~John Adams, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” (1787-88)

7. “We should begin by [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]setting conscience free[/FONT]. When all men of all religions shall enjoy equal liberty, property, and an equal chance for honors and power we may expect that improvements will be made in the human character and the state of society.”
~John Adams, letter to Dr. Price, April 8, 1785

8. “I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]a wall of separation between church and state[/FONT].”
~Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut, 1802

9. “In every country and [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty[/FONT]. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”
~Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Horatio Spofford, 1814

10. “Question with boldness even the existence of a [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]God[/FONT]; because, [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason[/FONT], then that of blindfolded fear.”
~Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

11. “I am for freedom of religion and [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another[/FONT].”
~Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, January 26, 1799

12. “History, I believe, furnishes [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government[/FONT]. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.”
-Thomas Jefferson: in letter to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813

13. “Because religious [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]belief, or non-belief[/FONT], is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]affects every individual[/FONT]. State [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights[/FONT]. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society[/FONT]. We have solved … the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.”
~Thomas Jefferson: in a speech to the Virginia Baptists, 1808

14. “[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law[/FONT].”
~Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814,

15. “[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State[/FONT].”
~James Madison, 1819, Writings, 8:432, quoted from Gene Garman, “Essays In Addition to America’s Real Religion”

16. “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together[/FONT].”
~James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

17. “Every new and successful example of a [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters[/FONT] is of importance.”
~James Madison, letter, 1822

18. “[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution[/FONT] of the United States, [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies[/FONT], may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history.”
~James Madison; Monopolies, Perpetuities, Corporations, Ecclesiastical
Endowments

19. “It is only when the people become ignorant and corrupt, when they degenerate into a populace, that they are incapable of exercising the sovereignty. Usurpation is then an easy attainment, and an usurper soon found. The people themselves become the willing instruments of their own debasement and ruin. Let us, then, look to the great cause, and endeavor to preserve it in full force. Let us by all wise and constitutional measures promote intelligence among the people as the best means of preserving our liberties.”
~James Monroe, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1817

20. “When [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]a religion[/FONT] is good, I conceive it [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]will support itself; and when it[/FONT] does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obligated to [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]call for help of the civil power, it’s a sign[/FONT], I apprehend, [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]of its being a bad one[/FONT].”
~Benjamin Franklin, letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780

21. “Manufacturers, who listening to the powerful invitations of a better price for their fabrics, or their labor, of greater cheapness of provisions and raw materials, of an exemption from the chief part of the taxes burdens and restraints, which they endure in the old world, of greater personal independence and consequence, under the operation of a more equal government, and of what is far more precious than mere religious toleration–a [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]perfect equality of religious privileges[/FONT]; would probably flock from Europe to the United States to pursue their own trades or professions, if they were once made sensible of the advantages they would enjoy, and were inspired with an assurance of encouragement and employment, will, with difficulty, be induced to transplant themselves, with a view to becoming cultivators of the land.”
~Alexander Hamilton: Report on the Subject of Manufacturers December 5, 1791

22. “In regard to religion, [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]mutual toleration in the different professions[/FONT] thereof is what all good and candid minds in all ages have ever practiced, and both by precept and example inculcated on mankind.”
~Samuel Adams, The Rights of the Colonists (1771)

23. “That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]directed only by reason and conviction[/FONT], not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forebearance, love, and charity towards each other.”
~George Mason, Virginia Bill of Rights, 1776

24. “It is [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]contrary to the principles of reason and justice that any should be compelled to contribute to the maintenance of a church[/FONT] with which their consciences will not permit them to join, and from which they can derive no benefit; for remedy whereof, and that equal liberty as well religious as civil, may be universally extended to all the good people of this commonwealth.”
~George Mason, Virginia Declaration of Rights, 1776

25. “A man of abilities and character, of any sect whatever, may be admitted to any office or public trust under the United States. I am a friend to a variety of sects, because they keep one another in order. How many different sects are we composed of throughout the United States? How many different sects will be in congress? We cannot enumerate the sects that may be in congress. And there are so many now in the United States that they will [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]prevent the establishment of any one sect in prejudice to the rest[/FONT], and will forever oppose all attempts to infringe religious liberty. If such an attempt be made, will not the alarm be sounded throughout America? If congress be as wicked as we are foretold they will, they would not run the risk of exciting the resentment of all, or most of the religious sects in America.”
~Edmund Randolph, address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 10, 1788

26. “I never liked the Hierarchy of the Church — [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]an equality in the teacher of Religion, and a dependence on the people, are republican sentiments[/FONT] — but if the Clergy combine, they will have their influence on Government”
~Rufus King, Rufus King: American Federalist, pp. 56-57

27. A general toleration of Religion appears to me the best means of peopling our country… The free exercise of religion hath stocked the Northern part of the continent with inhabitants; and altho’ Europe hath in great measure adopted a more moderate policy, yet the profession of Protestantism is extremely inconvenient in many places there. A Calvinist, a Lutheran, or Quaker, who hath felt these inconveniences in Europe, sails not to Virginia, where they are felt perhaps in a (greater degree).”
~Patrick Henry, observing that immigrants flock to places where there is no established religion, Religious Tolerance, 1766

28. “[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]No religious doctrine shall be established by law[/FONT].”
~Elbridge Gerry, Annals of Congress 1 : 729-731

29. “Knowledge and liberty are so prevalent in this country, that [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]I do not believe that the United States would ever be disposed to establish one religious sect, and lay all others under legal disabilities[/FONT]. But as we know not what may take place hereafter, and any such test would be exceedingly injurious to the rights of free citizens, I cannot think it altogether superfluous to have added a clause, which secures us from the possibility of such oppression.”
~Oliver Wolcott, Connecticut Ratifying Convention, 9 January 1788

30. “Some very worthy persons, who have not had great advantages for information, have objected against that clause in the constitution which provides, that [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust[/FONT] under the United States. They have been afraid that this clause is unfavorable to religion. But my countrymen, the sole purpose and effect of it is to exclude persecution, and to secure to you the important right of religious liberty. We are almost the only people in the world, who have a full enjoyment of this important right of human nature. In our country every man has a right to worship God in that way which is most agreeable to his conscience. If he be a good and peaceable person he is liable to no penalties or incapacities on account of his religious sentiments; or in other words, he is not subject to persecution. But in other parts of the world, it has been, and still is, far different. Systems of religious error have been adopted, in times of ignorance. It has been the interest of tyrannical kings, popes, and prelates, to maintain these errors. When the clouds of ignorance began to vanish, and the people grew more enlightened, there was no other way to keep them in error, but to prohibit their altering their religious opinions by severe persecuting laws. In this way persecution became general throughout Europe.”
~Oliver Ellsworth, Philip B Kurland and Ralph Lerner (eds.), The Founder’s Constitution, University of Chicago Press, 1987, Vol. 4, p. 638

31. “[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Persecution[/FONT] is not an original feature in any religion; but it [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law[/FONT]. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”
~Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man, 1791

32. “God has appointed [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]two kinds of government[/FONT] in the world, which are distinct in their nature, and [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]ought never to be confounded together; one of which is called civil, the other ecclesiastical government[/FONT].”
~Isaac Backus, An Appeal to the Public for Religious Liberty, 1773

33. “[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Congress has no power to make any religious establishments[/FONT].”
~Roger Sherman, Congress, August 19, 1789

34. “The American states have gone far in assisting the progress of truth; but they have stopped short of perfection. They ought to have given every honest citizen an equal right to enjoy his religion and an equal title to all civil emoluments, [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]without obliging him to tell his religion[/FONT]. Every interference of the civil power in regulating opinion, is an impious attempt to take the business of the Deity out of his own hands; and every preference given to any religious denomination, is so far slavery and bigotry.”
~Noah Webster, calling for no religious tests to serve in public office, Sketches of American Policy, 1785

35. “The legislature of [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]the United States shall pass no law on the subject of religion[/FONT].”
~Charles Pinckney, Constitutional Convention, 1787

**********UNQUOTE**********

love_katz

(2,579 posts)
135. ^^^^^This^^^^^
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 10:49 PM
Jul 2013

+ a Gazillion!

This post needs a thread all of its own.

I think the entire 29th point needs to be highlighted.

Thank your so very much for all the work you put into this post.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
110. What do fireworks look like in the rain?
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:47 PM
Jul 2013

It is raining and the fireworks are going off, simultaneously, as I speak. Celebrating at home.

mnhtnbb

(31,389 posts)
141. Probably not too bright! Enjoy. We had flooding from so much rain on Sunday.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 11:32 PM
Jul 2013

Not at our house--but in town.

Chaco Dundee

(334 posts)
111. you got that right
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:47 PM
Jul 2013

How can anybody mistake the last 13 years as a democracy.the only thing we have not done in a while is burning witches.but we are getting there.probably sooner than later.

Warpy

(111,264 posts)
112. I haven't felt like it in a very long time
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:47 PM
Jul 2013

The war on labor started in earnest in the 70s. That is when I could feel it all start to slip away.

Now so much is gone that only another revolution will save us. Let's just hope the plutocrats realize how uncomfortable for them a violent revolution would be and that they very sensibly allow us a nonviolent one.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
114. The Booms Started...and we usually go up on usual hill to watch...
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:50 PM
Jul 2013

I couldn't do it. I kept thinking of the Booms as our Drones reigning bombs down on people...and I had pictures of those little kids killed...and there were kids in neighborhood shooting off fireworks...and I felt like it was gunfire.

It creeped me out...and we couldn't do it. It's a tradition...but, just don't have the stomach for it this year. Felt that way last New Year's Eve...but this is worse.

Don't mean to be a downer for those who love it all... I just am not up to it this year, either.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
119. I think that we should use public events to do more voter registration.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 10:04 PM
Jul 2013

But I'm home too, staying away from all the noise and sitting a dog too.

I'm optimistic about the future because every Presidential election about 8% of the old voters from the previous one are no longer voting.



People don't change, but the old ones die!

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
120. After spending the day
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 10:05 PM
Jul 2013

With the restore the fourth folks and a radio synch, quiet night at home.

As combat vets we hate fire works anyway.

dflprincess

(28,078 posts)
131. There was an article in the Minneapolis Star Tribune about how hard Independence Day can be for vets
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 10:41 PM
Jul 2013

and then I realized that I can't remember my dad ever going to fireworks with us.

I hope you have a peaceful evening.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
133. Funny story
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 10:43 PM
Jul 2013

last year at the Ranchita fire they were using flare guns to get the back fire going.

First boom, (it sounds like a gun shot) I started to drop... one fire fighter chuckled, I just looked him in the eye and said, Combat vet.

Ah. He apologized.

He thought it was funny. He said that perhaps they should warn us since even FF who are vets have that rection the first time.

2naSalit

(86,631 posts)
152. I'm with you on the deck...
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 01:53 AM
Jul 2013

I live in the mountains now but the sound of he fireworks from town echo up the slope with an eerie report. I can't help thinking about how it traumatizes the wildlife and all the pets around the valley too.

What I don't get is why anyone would find it appropriate to celebrate freedom with the sounds and sights reminiscent of war...

The town down the slope looks like it might have been ravaged by a bombing raid with all the smoke and all the traffic leaving resembling a mass exodus. I have to pause and shake my head at how our culture celebrates a holiday that should be solemn with pseudo violence.

I haven't enjoyed the 4th in ages. Won't be sleeping tonight, tomorrow after work I'll be going up above timberline to get some peace, I hope. It will probably take all weekend to get that accomplished though.

 

blueamy66

(6,795 posts)
121. I'm not doing a thing.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 10:09 PM
Jul 2013

I'm in CA and my boyfriend is in Chicago. My family is in AZ.

I am alone in a huge house.

Sucks.

indepat

(20,899 posts)
127. Emblematic of Republican state legislatures and State houses pissing big-time on the people with
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 10:23 PM
Jul 2013

right-wing/ALEC vengeance.

love_katz

(2,579 posts)
132. Staying home with my kitteh.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 10:43 PM
Jul 2013

Glad to do it, as I am not into all the (faux) patriotic bloviating.

And, with all of the assaults on women's rights, I am not feeling at all into celebrating the 4th this year.

I need to find my CD with the Native American flute music and nature sounds. I will play that later, to damp out the booms and bangs, and try to keep my cat from freaking out. I also put some Rescue Remedy in her food...hopefully, that will help.

Until more of our people stand up against the attempts at tyranny, especially that being foisted on us by the American Talibornagains, I really don't feel all that much like celebrating. The ERA has never been ratified, so I don't feel like my liberty, or the liberty of any woman is really all that secure.

Cheers to you, mnhtnbb, I am right there with you.

dflprincess

(28,078 posts)
134. My neighborhood is going nuts with noise right now
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 10:46 PM
Jul 2013

and I'll bet none of the ones shooting off the fireworks could recite the first line of the Declaration of Independence. (I know these people one of them, several years ago, was upset because due to a business trip she would be in Philadelphia on the Fourth. I told her I thought that would be kind of neat to be there and she asked me why.)

I did go to a parade today with my niece and her family and was put off by the amount of military in it -- especially when you consider that the Founders did not want a standing army. Except for the honor guard at the front of the parade who were dressed in colonial costumes there was really nothing to note what the day is about.

mnhtnbb

(31,389 posts)
144. See, so many of these right wing types have no sense of history at all.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 11:47 PM
Jul 2013

The ones who run around blathering about this country being founded as a
"Christian" nation really send me up a wall.

There was an interesting full page ad in the NY Times today.

See here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3167400

 

MotherPetrie

(3,145 posts)
137. Rarely celebrate it unless I get dragged to a relative's cookout.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 10:53 PM
Jul 2013

Have never gotten excited about the 4th of July.

kiva

(4,373 posts)
138. Staying home to make sure the neighborhood idiots
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 10:58 PM
Jul 2013

don't set my trees on fire - major drought, hey! let's shoot off flying fire works!!!

Boomerproud

(7,952 posts)
143. Don't feel like celebrating anything this year.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 11:33 PM
Jul 2013

Some things are going to have to get better quick before I feel engaged in this country again and I'm not holding my breath for that to happen.

mnhtnbb

(31,389 posts)
161. My husband and I worked at creating a place for us to do just that.
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 09:36 AM
Jul 2013

After Bush stole the second election in 2004, we decided we needed to be able
to get out of the country. Long story--but we chose Panama--started
building a place--applied and got our permanent resident visas there--and then
the building came to a screeching halt. Another long story. Then our house
here burned down. More long story. By then it was 2008 and Obama was elected
and hubby said 'I don't feel the need for Panama any more'. We decided to use
the money to rebuild a house here and gave up on Panama.

Recently, I have been wishing we hadn't let Panama go. Not sure I'd return there--
but I did ask hubby this a.m. what he thought of the idea of moving to Kauai! I know,
Kauai is not emigrating, but it's so far out in the middle of the ocean I think you could
escape a lot of the turmoil that I fear is coming.

But you know, he's 70 and I'm 62 now. I don't think we're going anywhere.
But our kids? Our youngest (23) is going to Berlin in September for 10 months on
a Fulbright. We will certainly be encouraging him to think seriously about the
idea of making a permanent move to Germany.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
163. Yes, it's tricky to leave.
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 01:15 PM
Jul 2013

Besides finding a country that will let you enter, it's not always easy to support yourselves. Then, if you have family commitments back in the States (such as elderly relatives, etc.) that is really hard to walk away from. My husband and I are sort of encouraging our kids to think about their future in another country, even though I would selfishly like it if they lived next door to us for the rest of our lives.

edited to say: I loooove Kauai. It is so beautiful and peaceful. The cost of living is very high, however (e.g., non-organic milk is about $6 bucks a gallon). On the other hand, you don't need much if you live there, and possibly you could grow a lot of your own food with the year-round growing season.

mnhtnbb

(31,389 posts)
164. True. One of the reasons for Panama was its acceptance of retirees (forget Canada or NZ)
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 04:54 PM
Jul 2013

along with a program of significant discounts on everything from groceries to health care for seniors.

Brigid

(17,621 posts)
145. Yep. Just not in the mood.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 11:55 PM
Jul 2013

Any kind of celebration like this just smacks of jingoism these days. Maybe someday when we can actually repair our infrastructure, educate our kids, and get decent jobs.

ChiciB1

(15,435 posts)
147. Oh! Did Something Happen?
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 12:47 AM
Jul 2013

Was it important? Gee, must have missed it! Too busy trying to hang upside down to see if things looked any better that way! It didn't.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
148. Not feeling it this year at all.
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 12:57 AM
Jul 2013

Quiet day. We did have a dinner with friends.

I've got work I should be doing, too.

ChazII

(6,205 posts)
150. Yes, up in Prescott
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 01:09 AM
Jul 2013

with family and friends. After the loss of the 19 firefighters, we need this bit of normal and let the healing begin.

 

Corruption Inc

(1,568 posts)
151. Watched a little on PBS, most of the words seemed useless
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 01:44 AM
Jul 2013

For instance, Neil Diamond sang a song about freedom and most of those freedoms don't even exist anymore. Neil Diamond also sang his song "America" in front of a bunch of conservatives who don't want anybody "coming to America" as the words to the song so proudly state. Saw a few crippled soldiers who were praised by some TV star for "sacrificing for our freedoms" and that wasn't what they were crippled for at all. Also saw a few record company acts I've never heard of, obviously put up there by some promoters who could care less about any meaning of July 4th.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
155. Smoked some good pot, turned
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 05:29 AM
Jul 2013

off all the lights, tuned my 50" LG LCD TV and watched the fireworks in New York city.

Cha

(297,244 posts)
157. So sorry about what's going on in North Carolina, mnhtnbb
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 05:39 AM
Jul 2013

Here's to much better years for your state. So beautiful.. I'm hoping this republicon overkill be come back to bite them in their collective fascist ass, big time.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
159. What would we be celebrating?
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 08:16 AM
Jul 2013

The principles of the founders have been trashed. Democracy in America is in serious jeopardy. The only people really celebrating --really feeling it--are the delusional and the uninformed. Scary how many of those there are.

I don't know how anyone can feel good about what this country has become, never mind how many hotdogs they eat or fireworks they set off. It's a hollow holiday now. Just an uncomfortable nostalgia. But I hope that in that discomfort and dismay we find the courage and determination to bring about some big changes.

WatermelonRat

(340 posts)
165. Yeah, things were so much better fifty years ago
Fri Jul 5, 2013, 06:05 PM
Jul 2013

Why can't we go back to the days where women and negros knew their place, you never had to see gays outside of mental institutions, and nobody gave compulsory lobotomies a second thought? If the founding fathers were around today, they'd tell their slaves not to even bother with the fireworks.

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