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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJuan Cole: How Unreasonable Searches of Private Documents Caused the American Revolution
http://www.juancole.com/2013/07/unreasonable-documents-revolution.htmlHow Unreasonable Searches of Private Documents Caused the American Revolution
Published on July 4th, 2013
Written by: Juan Cole
- snip -
The Founding generation of Americans was particularly exercised by the privacy of their papers, the equivalent of todays email and electronic records. They put the Fourth Amendment into the Constitution, which says:
Note that papers are distinguished here from effects. That is not an accident, as Donald A. Dripps argued [pdf]:
Americas current national security state, which is a profound betrayal of the Constitution, holds that our email and our documents in the cloud are like postcards and thus can be examined at will by intelligence analysts and law enforcement. I doubt any ordinary Americans thinks that their email correspondence and digital documents are anything at all like a postcard.
Another exception, instituted as recently as 1979, is the stupid third-party doctrine, which comes out of a fascist court ruling that since you share your phone records with your telephone company, you cant expect them to be private from the government. What? What brain-dead jurist thought that up. When I contract as a private citizen with a business for a set of legal transactions, that is none of the governments business. A law is needed to overturn this ridiculous doctrine.
We need a privacy law in the United States that would settle these issues for electronic papers and reinforce the plain language of the Fourth Amendment, which is by now almost a dead letter.
The argument that we have to give away the 4th amendment because of terrorism is equally stupid. (King George III set aside the need for warrants and specific searches on the grounds of fighting smuggling, the precedent for our current use of terrorism for this purpose). Charles Kurzman points out that there have only been 100 terrorist plots on US soil since 2008 and that the NSA only claims to have disrupted 10 of them through electronic surveillance. There have in those 5 years been 25,000 terrorist attacks worldwide, of which the NSA claims to have foiled 50 through electronic surveillance. So they are not actually so effective that we should be eager just to abrogate a whole amendment to the Constitution over it. And, moreover, there were 70,000 violent fatalities in the United States during this period since 2008, and 20 of those were owing to terrorism.
This is why I say those willing to kick the constitution to the curb over fear of terrorism are sheep, not bravehearts. And the government officials who issue thousands of national security letters for warrantless searches every year and requisition Verizon business records on millions of customers, are frankly betraying the Constitution.
MORE[p]
dylan33
(92 posts)Agree more it is unbelievable
enough
(13,259 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)In the Congressional hearings where NSA claimed that "many" (over a dozen) terrorist plots were foiled,
every instance that was cited included one of the participants on the intercepted calls, emails and other material that was not inside the United States.
In other words, all of the cited "success stories" were cases in which the NSA and CIA, along with whoever else was involved, was actually watching foreigners who were either trying to do evil things on their own or were working with Americans to do evil things: a foreigner, in a foreign nation, was one of the endpoints of the communication in each case.
THAT is supposed to be the legal limit of the Patriot Act.
"only " 10 ? That means the y have saved many people's lives , doesn't it ! I cannot see anything wrong with that . Quit being so damned paranoid about everything . Be glad our government tries to keep you safe ( and free to believe every garbage being spread about !
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)According to you, it is okay for a government to secretly restrict civil liberties and lie to the public as long as it means it will save "many people's lives".
Many people lose their lives each year, because people lose their tempers. Thorazine helps control a person's temper. Therefore you will be just fine if with a government that injects the entire population with regular doses of thorazine in order to reduce the number of folks who lose their tempers and thereby save "many people's lives."
Try reading "This Perfect Day" by Ira levin, and then we'll see if you can compose a cogent argument.
Bonhomme Richard
(9,000 posts)like postcards.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)...using quill and ink.
With all the thought and work they put into it, they likely treasured each letter in every letter.
dkf
(37,305 posts)That says it all.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)might?
nolabels
(13,133 posts)The repercussion, a little bad press
The folks around the beltway have been seduced with their own insincerity. They are overwhelmed by the enormity and realized they wouldn't get very far unless they played by the unwritten rules of the place. The more they get exposed the more they will dig in and say try to stop us. After all, just remember, we be messing with their future job prospects and retirement. They will fight us tooth and nail, and just think about it, if you had worked yourself up and were somehow in their positions (they figure they have the gravitas because they earned it) how much would you really be that much different?
Humans v. Corporations: Unequal Privacy
https://movetoamend.org/humans-v-corporations-unequal-privacy
kentuck
(111,098 posts)ellennelle
(614 posts)thx
Civilization2
(649 posts)I entered "Juan Cole: How Unreasonable Searc", first link was the above.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Demeter
(85,373 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Demeter
(85,373 posts)Enjoy the holiday!
Skittles
(153,164 posts)yes INDEED
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)I have more important immediate concerns.
Skittles
(153,164 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)starroute
(12,977 posts)From laptops being seized at the border to all the computers, backup drives, and cellphones of anybody even being investigated by the FBI being seized and held for months, this has become one of the most wide-ranging of abuses.
And it isn't even necessarily terrorism-related -- as I recall, when Steve Jackson Games was raided 20 years ago on suspicion of hacking, they hauled away all the business records and materials for the next game release.
I hadn't previously noticed the word "effects" in the 4th Amendment. But now I'm starting to wonder if this whole "we'll take all your stuff and leave you with nothing" approach might not be purely illegal.
kentuck
(111,098 posts)From my interpretation.
It could mean the pocket watch that Grandpa gave you. Or that fine piece of china that you have displayed. Or it could mean that fine rifle you keep in your possession...
Demeter
(85,373 posts)The Rule of Law only applies when and if the PTB say it does. If you have to ask, you aren't one.
Until the Revolution.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)Th1onein
(8,514 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)galileoreloaded
(2,571 posts)i think.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)....than a business is actually a subject of the government and must abide by any and all laws the government chooses to impose upon it.
This is FINE if the government is operating in good faith as a representation of the will of the people but not so good when the government is operating independently where the people are not only ignored but considered to be an obstacle to achieving it's goal. And that's especially true when that goal is not revealed to the people because they would reject it.
libodem
(19,288 posts)I always like to personally thank Ralph Nader, for making sure Bush won in 2000, and the ensuing Patriot Act.
Thanks, Ralph, for the loss of our right to privacy from our emails to the airport.
treestar
(82,383 posts)That's a question in itself.
Uncle Joe
(58,364 posts)Unless one believes the founders thought that all communications and record keeping technology would stop with the quill?
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)defacto7
(13,485 posts)relevant to the present.
Thanks.