It was the US AMBASSADOR to Austria who called the FM to say Snowden was on Pres Morales' plane

[Catherina]

Last edited Thu Jul 4, 2013, 09:26 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm posting this on request and also because too many people are pretending not to understand why Latin American leaders are pointing their fingers at the US. I'm sure more information will come out later which explains the State Department's tap-dancing about this. I can't wait to see today's briefing.

Related thread: White House Dares EU Leaders to Rat On United States in Morales Flyover Affair

US Requested that Vienna Extradite Snowden

03.07.2013 | 21:28 | HELMAR DUMBS UND CHRISTIAN ULTSCH (Die Presse)

Bolivian President Morales was forced to land in Vienna. NSA whistleblower Snowden was suspected to be on his jet. In a telephone conversation with the Foreign Office, the U.S. ambassador demanded they extradite him.

...

Here's the crucial section:

Sie landete gegen 23 Uhr. Kurz danach ging im Wiener Außenamt ein dringlicher Anruf ein. Am anderen Ende der Leitung: US-Botschafter William Eacho. Wie "Die Presse" erfuhr, behauptete er mit großer Bestimmtheit, dass Edward Snowden an Bord sei, der von den USA gesuchte Aufdecker jüngster Abhörskandale. Eacho habe auf eine diplomatische Note verwiesen, in der die USA die Auslieferung Snowdens verlangten.

Translated:

It landed about 11 pm. Shortly after that, the Vienna foreign department received a phone call. The caller was the US ambassador William Echo. "Die Presse" learned that he claimed with strong firmness that Edward Snowden was onboard, the whistleblower of the recent surveillance scandals. Eacho referred to a diplomatic note requesting Snowden's extradition.


http://diepresse.com/home/politik/aussenpolitik/1426275/USA-verlangten-von-Wien-Snowdens-Auslieferung?_vl_backlink=/home/politik/aussenpolitik/1416110/index.do&direct=1416110

Thanks to Temmer for the translation

Update:

Meanwhile in Vienna, Defence Minister Saavedra pointed an accusatory finger at Washington. “We want to declare very firmly that it was an American story that Edward Snowden was on this flight,” he said from the airport lounge.

http://www.france24.com/en/20130703-bolivia-president-evo-morales-airplane-rerouted-vienna-snowden

[Rex]

1. But Catherina, America is never wrong about anything!

Just wait...they will be here in this thread telling you that everything is okay, because they ALL do it!

The goal post movers are having a Herculean day today.

[Catherina]

5. Lol. Nothing like smearing egg all over your face and pretendnig it's not egg

and day after day after day too.

Hi Rex

[Mojorabbit]

51. Do you think this is why he was denied airspace?

The other countries did not want to touch this with a ten foot pole?

[sabrina 1]

49. But Rex, remember when America used to be wrong about everything when Bush was

President? What happened, did we end all those nasty Bush policies?

[silvershadow]

2. bookmarking. I am

[Catherina]

10. bookmark this too. There was no inspection. His refusal to budge on that is why he had to sit 13 hrs

and they tried for hours, mostly Spain which for hours insisted it would only give him refuelling/overfly rights IF he agreed to an inspection. Did you catch my thread mentioning how the Spanish Ambassador tried to climb on board for a cup of coffee. What insulting arrogance, like an FBI agent trying to climb into your car at an intersection with a thermos of coffee in his hand because he can't get a warrant to search your car for pot.

"There was NO onboard walk-through whatsover. I would not submit, degrade myself to that" said Morales, who affirmed that the Spanish Ambassador to Vienna, Yago Pico de Coaña, TRIED to climb on board for a cup of coffee (with the intent) "to look around and check the plane".

"I could not allow (do) that. We have our dignity" I said. "I am not a criminal for (you to) take over the plane". ("Yo no soy ningún delincuente para que controle el avión".)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023168391

Thanks to Temmer for that translation

Un peu plus tôt, le chef de l'Etat autrichien, Heinz Fischer, venu à l'aéroport pour rencontrer son homologue bolivien, avait affirmé que les "conditions sont remplies pour une poursuite du voyage". "Les passeports ont été contrôlés et, contrairement aux rumeurs qui ont circulé, Edward Snowden n'était pas à bord", a déclaré à le porte-parole du ministère de l'intérieur, Karl-Heinz Grundboeck. L'avion n'a pas été fouillé. "Il n'y avait aucune raison légale pour une fouille", a-t-il dit.

A little earlier, the Head of State, Heinz Fischer, who had come to the airport to meet his Bolivian counterpart, affirmed that "conditions have been fulfilled to continue the trip". "Passports have been verified and, contrary to rumors, Edward Snowden is not on board", declared the spokesperson for the Interior Ministry,Karl-Heinz Grundboeck. The plane was not searched. "There was no legal reason for a search", he said.

http://www.lemonde.fr/ameriques/article/2013/07/03/une-rumeur-sur-snowden-provoque-une-crise-diplomatique-entre-paris-et-la-paz_3440849_3222.html

[silvershadow]

13. That may well be, but doesn't distract me at all from the fact that we apparently had a hand in it

(as I, and many others long suspected).

[Catherina]

20. Absolutely!

But I pointed that out because this is where his talk of harassment comes in

[truedelphi]

68. I appreciate your attempts to keep us informed.

This is one story where only knowing English is a definite impediment to finding out anything about what happened.

When you google various expressions related to the plight of Morales, you find out his plane was forced down (one version); his plane was denied the requested privilege to land, (another version), and various other scenarios. Since unless you can go off to a foreign nation's newspapers and read there, you have no idea of which version of what to consider, and within short order your head is spinning.

[Octafish]

36. 'I am not some sort of delinquent, whereby you can take control of the plane.'

The ugly America exposed.

[mazzarro]

61. How did Austria verify passports without knowing how many people were on the plane? -- n/t

[mitchtv]

83. I hope the Spanish ambassador got the bum's rush

still haven't given up their colonial attitude. To me this attempt by the Spanish to search the head of another state's plane was clearlly a provocation and hopefully their agent(so called Ambassador) in La Paz is packing his bags as we speak

[Mojorabbit]

54. So am I! nt

[cali]

3. gee. I'm shocked.

thanks for all your work on this, Catherina.

[Catherina]

11. Hi Cali!

Thanks for keeping an eye on all the other issues so I can focus on this.

[Hissyspit]

60. I'm gonna post this here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3159070

[malaise]

4. Oops!

I thought it was a refueling stop

[PoliticAverse]

6. So according to this article the call to Austria came after the jet had already landed. n/t

[Catherina]

12. and " referred to a diplomatic note requesting Snowden's extradition."

So they were keeping a careful eye on this. Quite planned and orchestrated.

[think]

7. Thanks for posting /nt

[GeorgeGist]

8. Ineffectual comes to mind.

What might have transpired if Snowden WAS onboard?

[Earth_First]

14. ...another Prosense thread?

[xiamiam]

16. funny..nt

[ProSense]

19. No,

here's "another Prosense thread?"

What Kind Of Coward Is Edward Snowden?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023169023

Clearly, I'm on your mind.

[East Coast Pirate]

23. Is that a link I see?

I followed the link but the blue glare blinded me.

[jazzimov]

44. It changes colors after you click on it.

you might want to try it sometime, instead of just pulling stuff out of...... thin air.

[East Coast Pirate]

46. Care to name something I've pulled out of my ass?

[jberryhill]

59. East Coast Pirate, Jr.?

Or would it be East Coast Pirate III?

[East Coast Pirate]

63. Hey, if you can pretend to be a lawyer, I can pretend to be a pirate.

[jberryhill]

81. Lol

And I'm constantly accused of representing pirates!

[Pholus]

103. Yeah. Another rerun. nt

[dixiegrrrrl]

41. Duzy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sabrina 1]

53. It would have violated International Laws, Treaties, Immunities etc IF they had tried to get him

off. But the real insult is the arrogance and stupidity of whoever thought that Morales would be stupid enough to have done such a thing. THEY know better than to give the Western Colonial Powers ANY excuse to accuse them sneaking a fugitive into their countries. They are law abiding nations, unlike this one.

He is a President not a common thug, educated in the law, extremely intelligent, apparently fare more intelligent than those running this country's foreign policies.

Remember when the Brits, equally arrogant Colonialists, threatened to invade Ecuador's Embassy to get Assange until more intelligent minds dragged them back from making such a foolish mistake.

[okaawhatever]

64. When did the Brits threaten to invade the Ecuadoran embassy? nt

[Fumesucker]

82. August 16, 2012 was when Forbes reported it

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/08/16/as-ecuadorean-grants-assange-asylum-former-uk-ambassador-says-embassy-raid-is-coming/

[Eleanors38]

101. Britain "rules the waves" or "waives the rules?"

[sabrina 1]

84. After Julian Assange went there. Fortunately there were smarter people around who prevented that

from happening. But that is their view of Latin American countries, they do not respect their sovereignty. Fortunately over the past ten years, Latin America has strengthened its defenses against the old Colonialists and their Corporate bosses. Right now they are meeting to decide what to do about this assault on the sovereignty of one of their members.

[Judi Lynn]

85. I remember it, as do so many others, of course. It made them look like assholes.

It seemed they were damned close to doing it, too, before they got over that ugly, unacceptable impulse.

[sibelian]

98. Seems odd that Morales would have used his own jet.

I'm begininng to wonder if the US had received a bad tip-off from unsympathetic parties.

[sibelian]

9. Thanks for the repost, Catherina.

[xiamiam]

15. billions upon billions spent in spying and surveillance and their most wanted man makes them look

like the keystone kops... with the evil villain of untruthiness or the least truthiness as their leader. You just cant make this stuff up. I don't approve at all but even if I did, I'd be a little embarrassed at the ineptitude fueled by arrogance

[Eleanors38]

102. That struck me, to! Couldn't ascertain who got on a plane? Jesus.

[Douglas Carpenter]

17. knr

[frylock]

18. no. no, i've been assured this was the sponataneous decision of some EU agency..

no US involvement whatsoever. nope.

[silvershadow]

21. EU Agency in this case means American Embassy based in the EU I guess.... nt

[Recursion]

22. According to a RW Austrian paper

owned largely by the Catholic Church, the ambassador made that call after the plane had landed.

[Cali_Democrat]

28. Any quotes from govt officials?

Any other news outlets reporting this besides the one in the OP? I did a search of google news and found NOTHING.

[Recursion]

69. That's my point. This is run by a RW Catholic daily and nowhere else

Just makes me cautious.

[sibelian]

100. The only reason to disregard it is if that paper has something to gain from falsification...

Or someone has something to gain from feeding falsification to the paper. In any case, we can pick and choose which papers to believe, of course. We now have both Morales statements and an Austrian source.

No-one is actually contradicting either of them as far as I can see... at least, no-one directly or closely involved, nor any of the papers such agencies might release statements to.

[cantbeserious]

24. Thank You For Sharing

eom

[Cali_Democrat]

25. You're gonna need a better source or an additional source

I haven't seen this reported anywhere else. This would be a very big deal.

Also, there are no direct quotes from American or Austrian officials regarding this "call".

I smell bullshit.

Oh ya.

[PoliticAverse]

29. I think what you are smelling comes from your many posts on the Morales issue...

Like this one: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023159070

[Cali_Democrat]

33. See the article I posted at the link?

It says specifically that "French officials denied Wednesday that France refused to let the plane cross over its airspace"

A quick search of google news and you can see this reported by various news sources:

http://www.google.com/#q=%22france+denies%22&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ei=8uzVUdjuC8zU0gGjq4C4Cw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoBA&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.dmQ&fp=404b96c0abfbc4df&biw=1280&bih=709

Then there is also a report of the French apologizing. Actually this contradiction was already discussed in this DU post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023167065

Also....this article discusses the fact that every country involved said their airspace was not denied:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/07/tale-re-routed-bolivian-presidents-plane-falling-apart/66838/

Cheers!

[PoliticAverse]

35. And you made your OP after the French Foreign Minister had already made the

admission and apology, somehow that didn't make it into your post.

[Cali_Democrat]

37. And yet the French still say their airspace was never denied.

again...it's a contradictory position of the French government.

If you want to blame me for that, go right ahead.

[PoliticAverse]

39. No, they don't. Again, the French Foreign minister apologized..

for the denial.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23174874

Ministry spokesman Philippe Lalliot said: "The foreign minister called his Bolivian counterpart to tell him
about France's regrets after the incident caused by the late confirmation of permission for President Morales'
plane to fly over territory."

[idwiyo]

48. It's like watching Lamb Chop & Friends singing The Song That Doesn't End.

[Judi Lynn]

32. It's the leading newspaper in Austria.

What do you have to disprove their own information?

Would a corporate paper from an outside source do better?

Is this something you'd find in a U.S. corporate source? Ever?

[Cali_Democrat]

34. Not a US corporate source. I'm just looking for additional sources and quotes from govt officials

The only people who would have called or received a call are government officials.

Just one more source reporting this.

Judi, I really don't think that is too much to ask.

Of course I will be attacked for asking for additional sources, but I really don't mind.

[PoliticAverse]

38. What you are attacked for is quoting anonymous sources you seem to agree with

but ignoring official statements you don't.

[Cali_Democrat]

40. Philippe Lalliot, spokesman for the French foreign ministry,

specifically said the plane had authorization to fly over France. This isn't just reported by one outlet, it's reported by many.

However, with regard to the OP, only one outlet is reporting this.

[PoliticAverse]

42. Actually, no that's not what he said...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23174874

Ministry spokesman Philippe Lalliot said: "The foreign minister called his Bolivian counterpart to tell him
about France's regrets after the incident caused by the late confirmation of permission for President Morales'
plane to fly over territory."

[WovenGems]

96. Timing

"Late confirmation" means the plane had already diverted. Thus the permission was meaningless. Unless of course, one is looking for an excuse.

[PoliticAverse]

97. Exactly. n/t

[Hissyspit]

65. Oh ya. Don't want to jump to conclusions.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3159070

"MY single source is air-tight. YOURS is clearly bullshit."

[Cali_Democrat]

66. Actually many sources reported French denial

http://www.google.com/#q=%22france+denies%22&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ei=8uzVUdjuC8zU0gGjq4C4Cw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoBA&fp=2924b437082ceeee&biw=1280&bih=709&bav=on.2,or.&cad=b

[Recursion]

79. It's a RW paper owned by the Catholic church (nt)

[Democracyinkind]

52. Bullshit here, bullshit there.

http://www.salzburg.com/nachrichten/welt/politik/sn/artikel/morales-in-wien-landeerlaubnis-wegen-flugzeugdefekt-65124/

(Via Salzburger Nachrichten, a normal Austrian newspaper)

Intervention von US-Botschafter?

Wie die Tageszeitung "Die Presse" in ihrer Donnerstagsausgabe berichtet, hat es noch am Montagabend eine Intervention von US-Botschafter William Eacho gegeben. Laut "Presse" behauptete der Diplomat mit großer Bestimmtheit, dass Edward Snowden an Bord sei, der von den USA gesuchte Aufdecker jüngster Abhörskandale. Eacho habe auf eine diplomatische Note verwiesen, in der die USA die sofortige Auslieferung Snowdens verlangten. Im Außenamt wurde am Mittwochabend auf Anfrage der APA bestätigt, dass es einen Anruf Eachos gegeben habe. Druck sei dabei aber keiner ausgeübt worden.

Bolded part translated by DiK:

On wednesday evening, the Foreign Ministry confirmed an inquiry by APA (DiK: Austria Presse Agentur) that there was a call by (William) Eachos. There was no pressuring (of the Austrian Ministry).

The truth, as always, grayish and plausibly deniable...

[sabrina 1]

86. If you are watching the Corporate media, you won't see it there.

[Pholus]

104. Yes, just like certain images of "flight paths" we could discuss. nt

[Chaco Dundee]

26. no surprise

What would one expect when a troglodite takes action directed by troglodites?

[DirkGently]

27. Yes. There's no mystery as to who ordered this. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

30. Good catch, again, Catherina. Thank you for this. n/t

[magellan]

31. Now there's an ambassador who deserves to be recalled

And that would be a great way for Obama to clean his hands of this mess.

I suspect, however, that Eacho will be embraced like Clapper.

[Catherina]

43. He didn't do this on his own. Even if he could have, or did, what explains the other countries? n/t

[magellan]

47. I don't believe he did it on his own

I have no doubt Eacho's decision to get on the phone wasn't off the cuff. Someone had to tell him that Morales's plane had been forced to land in Vienna, and it had to come from on high. It's hard to see how such an event would be of any interest to the US Ambassador to Austria if the name "Snowden" hadn't entered the picture.

[Catherina]

50. Exactly! What a mess n/t

[JimDandy]

70. Don't these types of communiques

come from The State Department?

[magellan]

71. I would imagine so. State oversees our diplomats.

It's unlikely that Eacho would make such a phone call without instruction. Which is what I was getting at in my initial comment: if he did take this on himself, then Obama has good reason to recall him.

[JimDandy]

73. Indeed. Perhaps a fall on his sword

might ease the international tension. I cannot recall anything like this happening before in my lifetime. Obama has also got to get rid of whoever gave him such bad advice. Our country might not be able to afford another diplomatic faux pas like this again.

[magellan]

74. Tragically, I don't think they give a damn anymore

And by "they" I mean our government at large -- Dem, Rethug...whatever. We are behaving like a corrupt empire and there's no sign that it will get anything but worse. I don't see many railing against it, anyway. Bernie Sanders, Alan Grayson...we need many more like them to effect any significant change from this dark path we're on.

[Marrah_G]

92. Ummmm the ambassador was told to make that phone call

People are not stupid. This shitstorm goes right back to the oval office.

[magellan]

110. I acknowledge that below. n/t

[truebluegreen]

45. Boom goes the dynamite...

Good catch, Catherina. Thank you.

[Purveyor]

57. Thank you for posting, Catherina...indeed. +1 eom

[dkf]

58. One wonders why we aren't hearing a blow by blow in the American press.

Only DUers, who thankfully have members who can translate, are getting the info and seeing the power of the US Government up close.

Awesome job Catherina and all our contributors!!!

[DeSwiss]

67. So the world's worst rouge demands everyone else follow laws.....

- When the payback comes I wouldn't recommend standing next to the U.S.

K&R

[MannyGoldstein]

72. We knew this would be the case

And now we know it's the case.

Thanks for keeping on top of this, Catherina!

[KoKo]

75. I was surprised that US State Department didn't come right out and Explain This

Were you or anyone else surprised to see how long they let this "hang out" there?

Do they think that Democrats only watch CNN/MSNBC/Reality Shows and Crap?

Why won't they clarify who gave the order to have that plane be held in Austria (searched) and then to have the South American Union Countries have to go out and complain about it..and with so much disinfo and confusion in USA Media to have this FESTER on Social Media and elswhere?

What were they thinking. If Kerry OKAYED IT...then let him get out there and speak about it. What's the DELAY?

[Recursion]

78. This is printed in a RW Catholic-church-owned daily and nobody else is running with it

Just keep that in mind.

[flamingdem]

87. That explains it, they have no credibility

Kind of odd they're even printing such hot material. Someone has got to take the to task, one would suppose.

[Democracyinkind]

88. I have already posted confirmation independent of Die Presse that a call took place.

[City Lights]

76. Well, isn't that special?! nt

[Savannahmann]

77. I thought it was all grandstanding

By President Morales.

[sgtbenobo]

80. What I wouldn't give for a little idea....

.... of what our embassies have been chattering about post-Snowden. I think we have a bunch of cowboys running amok here whether it's Wikileaks or Prism they just don't seem to know if they should shit or go blind. Where's Bradley when we need him? Oh right, he's in solitary. Thanks again Adrian Lamo.

Carry on.

[Enthusiast]

90. Kicked and Recommended!

I knew it.

[WinkyDink]

91. I guess the NSA got their lines crossed!

[byeya]

93. Thanks for the thread!

[davidpdx]

95. It still doesn't explain two things

Where did the US ambassador get the information?

Also how would Snowden have gotten on Morales' plane when they were at two different airports?

Logically that one doesn't make sense.

[Cleita]

99. From the CIA probably or could have been the State Department.

Yes, and how would have Snowden gotten on his plane, especially now that he is without papers, he would have been arrested by Russian police the minute he stepped on to Russia soil illegally, a thing he would have had to do to get on Morales's airplane.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

105. Did his name HAVE to be "Echo"?

[carolinayellowdog]

107. Yes, I see the hand of Divine Providence in this

sometimes a single moment illuminates why a person has a particular name-- God is a comic novelist

[caseymoz]

106. If there were any doubt

. . . it's now confirmed that the US was behind this crap.

I remember just last Friday President Obama stating how Snowden was so yesterday, that he had too many important things to attend to be concerned about an issue plain-old law enforcement could take care of. Yes, law enforcement, like the US State Department, at the ambassador level.

As good as our government was at kicking itself in the nuts, I really wonder who planted the disinformation that Snowden was on the Bolivian president's jet? We will probably never find out, but I know Putin is probably laughing hardest.

It's probably one the the best practical jokes in the history of international intrigue. I don't think it's going to be the last one on us before this is over. The rest of the world is going to have a knee-slapping time making the great empire look like a bunch of buffoons over this.

And the US now deserves no less.

[temmer]

108. Former chief of Austrian security agency Polli claims: it was the Russians

I really wonder who planted the disinformation that Snowden was on the Bolivian president's jet?



http://www.heute.at/news/welt/art23661,898346

claims it is the biggest blamage for US foreign policy ever.

[LiberalLovinLug]

109. Thanks Catherina

So....

What would have happened if Snowden WAS on board? Is the plane itself regarded the same as an embassy? And if they dragged him off under protest by Morales? This still would have been a low move.

Either way Bolivia and other South American populations will not forget this clumsy arrogant insult any time soon.

[Doctor_J]

111. This is getting to be such a disaster

I expected such humiliating behavior from Bush. Not from the guy I voted for

[WillyT]

112. K & R !!!

[Kurovski]

113. K&R. (nt)

[Catherina]

114. Hey DU, we did good! A few discreet tweets here and there & RT_Spanish has picked this up

A few tweets here and there, to include Anonymous, FDL and Global Research, resulted in a few articles and now RT Spanish has picked up this story.

http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/99475-embajador-eeuu-austria-avion-morales

Señalan a embajador de EE.UU. en Austria como fuente de rumores del traslado de Snowden
Publicado: 8 jul 2013 | 13:38 GMT Última actualización: 8 jul 2013 | 13:38 GMT


El embajador de EE.UU. en Austria, William Eacho, fue quien emitió una denuncia falsa de que el ex técnico de la CIA, Edward Snowden, estaba a bordo del avión del presidente boliviano, según el periódico austriaco 'Die Presse'.
Todo sobre este tema

En su edición fechada el 3 de julio el periódico afirmó que “el Ministerio de Asuntos Exteriores de Austria recibió una llamada telefónica” de Eacho.

Según 'Die Presse' el diplomático “afirmó gran certidumbre de que Edward Snowden estaba a bordo del avión boliviano” e hizo mención a “una nota diplomática solicitando la extradición de Edward Snowden”.

El presidente Barack Obama había designado a Eacho como embajador de Estados Unidos en Austria en Junio del 2009, pese a que carecía por completo de experiencia diplomática.

Eacho era el consejero delegado de la gran empresa de desarrollos inmobiliarios Carlton Capital Group.

...

Texto completo en: http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/99475-embajador-eeuu-austria-avion-morales