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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEvo Morales: "certain European countries need to liberate themselves from the North American Empire"
Morales was pelted with flowers and leis when he got off his jet.
To those of us who stayed up all night following the events as they were happening, nothing in this article or statements by President Morales, will come as a surprise.
To those desperate souls, clutching at any straw you can because Obama's very own actions may reflect badly on him, you're only making things more embarrassing and once again proving to the whole world, that yes indeed, you can still sell lies like WMD's in Iraq sarin in Syria, to a small but LOUD segment of the American people.
My translation
Jueves 4 de julio de 2013
An assault on International Rights
-- United States needs to remember that we are not a colony
-- European governments banded together in an attempt to intimidate
-- Bolivia will demand that they explain why they rescinded overflight permission into their airspace
-- The President is studying what actions to take in response to his "kidnapping"
La Paz, July 3
"Never will they intimidate us, or scare us, because we are a free and sovereign people, we're not a nation of colonies but independence" the President said tonight upon his return to Bolivia after France, Spain, Portugal and Italy denied his plane overflight rights into their respective territories, which forced him to make a 13-hour stopover in Austria.
...
It's not even comprehensible what they said, they affirmed that they were detaining me because I was transporting Mr. Edward Snowden. Before leaving Vienna, I told them "This Senor (Snowden) is not a suitcase, he's not a little fly that I can put on my plane and bring to Bolivia".
...
The President explained that in the very early morning hours, he (finally) received authorization to overfly those airspaces, first France, then Portugal, and then Italy. "But Spain wouldn't give us permission until 9 AM in the morning" he said. Their authorization came a half hour later. He then informed them that the Bolivian Foreign Ministry had just received, that night, while he was in flight from Vienna to Latin America, an extradition request for Edward Snowden.
...
Morales denied the words of Austrian Minister of the Exterior, Michael Spindelegger, who said that the Bolivian government allowed the Austrian police to search his plane.
"There was NO onboard walk-through whatsover. I would not submit, degrade myself to that" said Morales, who affirmed that the Spanish Ambassador to Vienna, Yago Pico de Coaña, TRIED to climb on board for a cup of coffee (with the intent) "to look around and check the plane".
"I could not allow (do) that. We have our dignity" I said. "I am not a criminal for (you to) take over the plane". ("Yo no soy ningún delincuente para que controle el avión".)
...
http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2013/07/04/politica/002n1pol
Here is what Evo Morales had to say as soon as he stepped off his jet
Rough translation that skips things like the introduction, details of the gas deal with Russia for example.
(Paraphrase) He thanks the Bolivian people and the leaders of the region for their unity and support in face of the affront, the attempts of the (North American) Empire to intimidate.
(Paraphrase) We were coming back from Russia in a good mood, a country that has expressed so much solidarity with our people, and whose President, Vladimir Putin is investing so much in our country,we were happy from our talks because next week we'll be signing a deal with Russia's GazProm, one of the world's largest Oil & Gas companies.
Translation of the video starts here:
As we were about to cross into French airspace, our pilots informed us that our permission to enter French airspace had been withdrawn and we had to turn around and return to Russia. So we discussed what to do and decided to request an urgent emergency landing in Austria.
(Aha, so the fuel gauge indicator was just an excuse they gave to get permission to land. What he doesn't mention is that they were stuck in the air flying with no destination after that permission was withdrawn. Hint for the those who don't understand how this works. You can't just keep flying around circles in someone's airspace without a permitted path to your destination. I read somewhere that night, that they flew around for 2 hours before finally landing in Austria. I'll check that.)
I feel that it was an open provocation to the (Latin American) continent, not just to the President. The North American Empire used its agents to scare us and intimidate us. Never will they intimidate us. Never will they scare us because we are a people that has its dignity and sovereignty.
The empire and its servants think they can intimidate a president by harassing him, but this is, above all, to intimidate the people and the social movements that are fighting for liberation. We are not in the time of colonies and empires. We are in times of peoples (populations) that resist invasions to loot our natural resources".
What did I see from close up? I saw from up close how some world powers are united to continue planning policies that only kill with starvation and kill with wars, politicians who never think of the people, politicians who only think of themselves, of their small groups, they think of their monarchies and their hierarchies that don't include the people of the world. These politics, I am convinced, will end because the events of yesterday and today showed that in Bolivia, and among other people who live on this earth, there's a profound sentiment for liberation of all the peoples in this world. For this I salute not only the social movements in Bolivia, but in Nicaragua, Ecuador, Argentina and many countries that urgently mobilized to urgently protest my detention that lasted over 13 hours on the European continent.
Many thanks for the solidarity. This fight isn't for Evo, but for our people and the peoples who will never shut up, the people who will continue the fight for their liberation in face of the different threats and intimidation by the North American government.
We could not understand how we could be diverted, divert a President, an official aircraft, against international accords Bolivia has with the world, besides a presidential plane is like an embassy that travels the world. To detain it, to divert it and oblige it to make an emergency landing is a way to attack the President and the continent.
I want to say to my sisters and brothers of Bolivia, many thanks for all the solidarity. This fight isn't for Evo but for the people. The people will never shut up. The peoples will continue to fight for their liberation in face of the different threats and intimidation coming from the North American Empire.
I very much regret, and I want to say that, that certain European countries need to liberate themselves from the North American Empire. I can not understand that several countries are faithful servants (fieles sirvientes) of North American Imperialism.
.
This fight isn't just taking place in Bolivia but also on other continents, as well as by people in the United States,. It's important to look for alliances with people, with North Americans who are fighting policies that serve to dominate and humiliate the people of the world.
Thank you.......
Here are some other snippets from mainstream, respected, Latin American papers today.
In La Paz, the government condemned the European siege against Evo Morales and summoned the Ambassadors of France, Portugal and Italy.
MERCOSUR Demands Apologies from the European Governments for the Offense to Evo Morales
(article)
http://www.comunicacion.gob.bo/php/noticiaCompleta.php?control=48a1e08121cd89145c9e74d7d227cc93
Or you can go with the blue link version that he really never loved him
sibelian
(7,804 posts)I don't think my little island will ever break for it, though.
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)Very interesting....
Catherina
(35,568 posts)This whole thing was deliberate, dishonest and ugly.
03.07.2013 | 21:28 | HELMAR DUMBS UND CHRISTIAN ULTSCH (Die Presse)
Bolivian President Morales was forced to land in Vienna. NSA whistleblower Snowden was suspected to be on his jet. In a telephone conversation with the Foreign Office, the U.S. ambassador demanded they extradite him.
Here's the crucial section:
Sie landete gegen 23 Uhr. Kurz danach ging im Wiener Außenamt ein dringlicher Anruf ein. Am anderen Ende der Leitung: US-Botschafter William Eacho. Wie "Die Presse" erfuhr, behauptete er mit großer Bestimmtheit, dass Edward Snowden an Bord sei, der von den USA gesuchte Aufdecker jüngster Abhörskandale. Eacho habe auf eine diplomatische Note verwiesen, in der die USA die Auslieferung Snowdens verlangten.
Translated:
It landed about 11 pm. Shortly after that, the Vienna foreign department received a phone call. The caller was the US embassador William Echo. "Die Presse" learned that he claimed with strong firmness that Edward Snowden was onboard, the whistleblower of the recent surveillance scandals. Eacho referred to a diplomatic note requesting Snowden's extradition.
http://diepresse.com/home/politik/aussenpolitik/1426275/USA-verlangten-von-Wien-Snowdens-Auslieferung?_vl_backlink=/home/politik/aussenpolitik/1416110/index.do&direct=1416110
Thanks to Temmer for that translation
A little earlier, the Head of State, Heinz Fischer, who had come to the airport to meet his Bolivian counterpart, affirmed that "conditions have been fulfilled to continue the trip". "Passports have been verified and, contrary to rumors, Edward Snowden is not on board", declared the spokesperson for the Interior Ministry,Karl-Heinz Grundboeck. The plane was not searched. "There was no legal reason for a search", he said.
http://www.lemonde.fr/ameriques/article/2013/07/03/une-rumeur-sur-snowden-provoque-une-crise-diplomatique-entre-paris-et-la-paz_3440849_3222.html
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I also tried to post from the Bolivian online paper. It is so important to keep these relatively untainted foreign news sources available on DU.
Perhaps we should start a group for foreign news sources. Or is there one already and I didn't realize it?
Catherina
(35,568 posts)I don't know of any. The Latin American forum has good untainted foreign news but only about Latin America, and we have our fair share of people there bringing very tainted news too I've bookmarked several of your posts but they're getting lost in the melee too. I wish there was a cleaner way to do this too.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Clearly Divernan is a potential member of the group. I really think we need this group.
I remember during the McCain campaign, he started going on and saber-rattling about Georgia and Russia, etc. I checked Die Presse or Der Standard and posted excerpts on DU that set the story straight. I'm sure I'm not the only one who corrected that story, but I did it for DUers.
This has happened in other matters. English is my native tongue, and I am not current on the terminology and slang in French and German, but I lived in countries speaking those languages and studied French long enough to be able to translate fairly easily (although I am not a professional translator.) I know the geography pretty well, etc.
I think that a group that involved all who know foreign languages would add a useful dimension to our discussion and wake DUers up to all the different thing going on in the world. It would add a lot to DU.
Rstrstx
(1,399 posts)I thought the Austrians previously said they had inspected the plane. Or had checked everybody's passport. Or whatever. People need to start getting their lies straight.
Just to play devil's advocate, what if Snowden was on board the plane? Wonder if I can bet on it on Intrade
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)and said that so they could send the plane on its way. Their President seemed mortified, embarrassed to be in that position. This was just an impression I had lol.
byeya
(2,842 posts)pothole for the Obama administration or something of altogether greater significance.
magellan
(13,257 posts)"As we were about to cross into French airspace, our pilots informed us that our permission to enter French airspace had been withdrawn and we had to turn around and return to Russia."
In fact they were still in Austrian airspace and closing on the Italian border when they turned around. It could be that's when the French refused them; I should think overflight permissions can be withdrawn any time.
Morales wasn't flying the plane so he can't be expected to know what country they were over when the refusal came. There aren't nice lines drawn on the ground and big letters announcing the country below when you're flying.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)It generally takes less than 1/2 hr to cross the top of Italy going from Austria to France in a commercial jet.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Not the map, but precisely where the plane was. On second thought, the map too.
magellan
(13,257 posts)I got it here by stopping the animation at the end and taking a screen shot: http://www.flightradar24.com/2013-07-02/16:37/48x/48.11,16.58/7#!/2013-07-02/16:35/FAB1
Catherina
(35,568 posts)of course, I could be wrong in the way I'm looking at it. The straight line ground distance their furthest point in Austria (Spittal An De Drau) to the French airspace is 277 ground miles (if you could drive a straight line) and that little jet was booking at 478 mph. Once you've flown over Vienna, which they had, you're pretty much minutes away from French airspace. It seems to me that as they were about to cross over into French airspace, the pilots made contact with air traffic control and were told they couldn't so they informed Morales at that time so he could make a decision between returning to Russia or making a stop in Vienna. I'm sure we'll hear more about this lol.
magellan
(13,257 posts)The plane never left Austrian airspace. Cortina d'Ampezzo, just the other side of the border it was heading for before it turned around, is in Italy. It didn't get near to France. It had to cross over Italy first.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)and thought of you.
Some French guys were tracking it.
https://vine.co/v/hWWiPg3KpHJ
Their comment in French is "He reached it, Morales' plane reached France"
He was closer than I thought! Right ON the border, wow
magellan
(13,257 posts)They don't even make it out of Austria before turning around on that one, as I showed. (And I watched it several times, trying to make it stop before it ended and FAB1's flight trail disappeared so I could take a screenshot of their entire route.) But it certainly explains why you and others are saying the plane made it to France before they were turned back. Had me completely puzzled....
Thank you, Catherina. But I'm left wondering, why would the FR24 capture be wrong?
Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
magellan
(13,257 posts)I'm not going to ignore a glaring error just because I agree with the essence of what's being said. Not how I'm built.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)I'm glad Morales did this and put to rest all the rumors and all the attempts to whitewash what happened afterwards with a first person account of the events.
It looks like the nations of South America are coming together and uniting to stand up to our country's bullying. Obama needs to revise our policies there if he doesn't want to wake up a sleeping giant.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)thank you for gathering and posting on NSA here! DUseful as hell
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)Response to Catherina (Original post)
Post removed
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)byeya
(2,842 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It's OK to keep tabs on criminals and to investigate specific crimes that have happened.
But there is absolutely no excuse for reviewing or collecting the pen registers of everyone and especially not of lawyers, doctors, psychologists and above all not of journalists or anyone in a political party or associated with collecting news.
This stifles free speech, freedom of association.
And when you think of it, no individual should have their pen register taken by the police or any arm of the government except upon a subpoena or warrant issued on probably cause.
Police officers and those individuals who work for the NSA would want that same right to privacy for themselves.
This NSA plan is simply a silent coup.
frylock
(34,825 posts)totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)looks up to. But yet you want to compare us with a small Third World country.
Plus I suspect that anything going on in Bolivia pales in comparison to what our NSA is doing. I can't wait for more of Edward Snowden's disclosures to come out.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)MichaelMcGuire
(1,684 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)or any other country on the planet. Evo not understanding it doesn't mean they can't pursue their own interests as they see fit.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)that this action by France, Portugal, Italy and Spain violated a treaty.
Morales is cool like Obama under pressure.
He was all smiles with the kindly Viennese in Austria, but once he got home, and in the air, he let go. Check out the Bolivian news reports in the Bolivian papers.
This will go away temporarily, but it will be back with a vengeance unless the right-wing, neo-nazi, neo-conservative clique in our government are forced to resign.
When I think about all this, I realize that the government eavesdrops on all its generals and employees. That means, as an aside, that they probably knew about Petraeus's affair and abuses long before he was fired. That means that a lot of other things were probably known before action was taken.
Does your congresscritter or maybe a member of his staff say compromising things in e-mails or on the phone? Somebody knows. Blackmail is a tool, a political strategy in a world in which an elite core of people have the capacity to collect the communications records of others in the government.
Think about it.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)In fact I think it likely
sibelian
(7,804 posts)I find that conclusion completely impossible to avoid.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It's just all how you use the "somethings" to paint the picture you want to portray.
Was Benghazi Killing of Ambassador Stevens, 3 Others "Blowback" for Secret U.S. Assassinations?
AMY GOODMAN: Jack Murphy, what about the role of General Petraeus, who was taken down in a sex scandal? Do you think thats really why he was taken down?
JACK MURPHY: No. Theres a number of interesting aspects of what happened with General Petraeus. After Benghazi, he realized that he was the perpetual outsider in the administration. He was actually preparing to step down and interviewing for the job to be the president of Princeton University. What had happened was that when this started to happen, when he started to make motions that he was going to leave the CIA and step down, was that the government CIA insiders and other people inside the government contrived a situation in which he was forced out of the administration in a way that was politically disgraceful, that would knock him out of the political game for years to come. And thats pretty much what happened, was that there were people on the seventh floor of the CIAmanagers and officers who already didnt like Petraeus for throwing his weight around, acting like he was a four-star general, and for further pursuing paramilitary programs that they didnt likeso there were personnel within that that then contrived a legal situation and instigated a legal investigation with the FBI to find the information that his bodyguards, that the people close to him already knew existed. Everybody knew about Paula Broadwell as not a secret at all within
AMY GOODMAN: And Paula Broadwell being?
JACK MURPHY: Right, a mistress. That wasnt a secret. So
Monday, July 1, 2013
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/1/was_deadly_benghazi_killing_of_ambassador
Good interview. About 20 minutes in total.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)in business or economics because he at least had really practiced law -- litigation, and had studied I think textile industrial management or something along that line. Being from small town America originally myself, his message about the Two Americas and the loss of jobs due to global trade really spoke to me.
Clearly the ideas that greatly appealed to me, would not have pleased the oligarchy that funds campaigns and runs the country. That's very sad for us ordinary Americans, but that is the way it is.
So, when Edwards' affair was outed, it seemed very strangely timed to me. I remember watching an appearance of the Edwards' family on one of their campaign stops. The Edwards daughter seemed upset. Having dealt with troubled families and knowing the effect of for example divorce on the children, I thought something was wrong.
Then a few weeks later, after having come very close to winning the Iowa primary, Edwards' affair was exposed by a tabloid.
Later, perhaps right before Edwards trial or even during it, I read an article online possibly in the Huffington Post that in passing mentioned that Edwards' affair had somehow been confirmed or discovered through his telephone records, Verizon maybe. Since California has very strict privacy protections and I knew it, I wondered how someone could have gotten his telephone records.
i cannot corroborate my story with links or references or citations I am sorry to say. So I could be remembering things incorrectly. But that is what I recall. So, I think that perhaps Edwards' records were perused by someone. It could have been that his aide who knew about his mistress leaked the records, but the campaign was still going well when they were leaked, so I can't imagine what motivation the aide would have had although I can imagine that the aide would have been miserable and suffered under the burden of his "guilty knowledge."
So, I have wondered about this. Generally, in California telephone records must be subpoenaed. It's not that they are impossible to get, but usually it takes a little legal effort. I suppose the press could find what they want as could a private investigator maybe, but it isn't so easy in California.
People are ruined because they are politically inconvenient, not because they are less morally correct than those who are ruining them. It is an ugly game.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)He is saying that doing so would improve things in their own countries. With this one crumbling into a fascist, broken-down anachronism, he may be on target.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)PS. Nothing against ordinary Americans. This sentiment applies to your government and its policies.
My own government are mostly scumbags, not any different from yours.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)K&R
And you go, Catherina! Evo is on fire, isn't he? Wouldn't let him fly over their countries... WTF is up with that? It was all instigated by "you-know-who", er, by one or all of our trouble-making-law-breaking alphabet agencies who think they own the effing world. Thanks so much for this great OP!
zeemike
(18,998 posts)It is time we stopped treating these South American countries like shit.
And thank you Catherina for keeping so well informed.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)stand on principle here!
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Really?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)sibelian
(7,804 posts)I don't know if I'd hold my breath on it, if I'm honest, but they might...
lunatica
(53,410 posts)That 'love for the almighty dollar' argument. Ya know, there are things about this country that are good, and there are thing that aren't so good. The idea that countries should shut up because they receive money from the US is fucking teabag thinking.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Foreign aid the US does not have to give in the first place? Talk about entitled. We can withdraw all of that aid and refuse to trade with them - we are free to do that.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Since when can't the US take some criticism for being a bully when it's being a bully?
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)They don't need our "aid" nearly as much as we need their friendship. The threat to reduce "foreign aid" is no longer very persuasive.
We don't have the economic upper hand that we once had. Sorry, but a lot of Europeans are living better than we are. They can actually take nice vacations and have the time to do it.
Americans have the mistaken idea that they are so much richer than the rest of the world. We have a lot of very rich people, but the average American does not have the wealth that people in Scandinavia enjoy or the job security and good treatment that Germans have.
Austria as a nation looked at its economy and predicted that it would need to reorganize and focus on its strengths. This it started doing in the late 1970s. It is doing well.
We are a disorganized economy in which the upper crust economically looks down on and mistreats working people. Americans are so isolated that we do not realize that capitalism does not mean oppressing working people, but rather encouraging creativity and enterprise. It's a shame. We are not a capitalist country but rather a corporate country. The big corporations are almost akin to the European aristocracies. I'm exaggerating, but we are headed in that direction.
Americans -- foreign aid. It still exists, but we aren't giving that much any more.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)Here's a bit of news, that might shed some light on why our State Department has Morales in it's gun sights.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/02/world/americas/bolivian-president-expels-us-aid-agency.html?_r=0
By WILLIAM NEUMAN
LA PAZ, Bolivia President Evo Morales expelled the United States Agency for International Development from Bolivia on Wednesday, suggesting that it had conspired against his leftist government.
Mr. Morales made the announcement at the start of festivities to commemorate May 1, a holiday in Bolivia and in many other countries that celebrate workers movements and organized labor.
The agency, which has nine American employees here, had already sharply reduced its presence. The Obama administration had asked for $17 million for the agencys Bolivia programs this year, a steep drop from its $89 million budget in 2007.
Some institutions of the United States Embassy continue to conspire against this process, against the people and especially against the country, Mr. Morales said. As a result, he said, We have decided to expel U.S.A.I.D. from Bolivia.
It seems the IMF and the World Bank is where Bolivia gets most of its foreign aid. The US gave them $150 million in 2004 but I can't find any evidence that we have given them anything since then except through this agency.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)I am a US citizen, but I grew up in Mexico. I came to the US when I was a teenager. I get why they don't trust the US. And I agree with a lot of what they think.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I know and understand why and how they think too.
A lot of Americans are provincial. And our media does nothing to expand the horizons of people. Fox News -- are you kidding?
You might enjoy Pacifica radio -- KPFK in Los Angeles. Some of the programming (not all) is very good.
Ian Masters is one, and another person whose name I can never remember and who also broadcasts just as I am preparing supper. Check the schedule online.
You can get their podcasts online.
kentuck
(111,098 posts)Flashbacks to banana republics...
Javaman
(62,530 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)Via Nationalization in Bolivia, Argentina, and Venezuela. My odds are that one will get you twenty that there are a lot of very angry European 1% types in the next couple months.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)It's not pretty for the US. Maduro had warned him before he left Moscow that the US had lost its mind over Snowden and to be very careful. Maduro's speaking now. It's in Spanish.
http://www.telesurtv.net/el-canal/senal-en-vivo
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)To the 1% ->
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)I gotta give it to him: he's an operator. This is the best political theater in some time.
The picture of him in the lei is like a 1980's parody of Latin American leadership.
Too perfect!