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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNO Repub will win 2016.
I just got told, once again, that NO Repub will win in 2016 (and told, because I said it was a possibility, that I wanted a republican elected president)
If you believe that it isn't possible for a repub to "win" the White House, you're either suffering under a delusion or not paying attention.
The VRA has been gutted and the result is that millions of democratic voters will be disenfranchised. Repub controlled legislatures are busy as bees crafting legislation that will do just that.
There seems to be a strong strain of complacency on DU regarding the 2016 election.
It's truly foolish.
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MH1
(17,600 posts)F*ck, people, f*cking GEORGE DUBYA BUSH got enough votes to steal it. TWICE. Neither Gore nor Kerry was perfect, but either one of them looks like Einstein, Gandhi, and Mandela rolled into one compared to f*cking GEORGE DUBYA BUSH.
What the hell is wrong with you?
(if you think the republicans can't possibly win in 2016)
edit to add, in case it isn't obvious: I'm not arguing with the OP, I'm agreeing!
Moses2SandyKoufax
(1,290 posts)we have no way of knowing what the political landscape will look like in 3 years. Looking at the current Republican lineup of potential candidates (besides Christie if he runs), I don't see any of those candidates beating a competent Democrat at this time. I know it's rare for one party to win the white house three times in a row, I just don't see Santorum, Rubio, Ryan, or Rand Paul winning.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)but without some kind of huge scandal it is unlikely.
The (R) primary process is helping us by forcing them to take extreme right win (aka nutjob) positions just to be viable at winning the nomination.
Democrats can start out with far less extreme viewpoints and still win the nomination in 2016, giving them more room to stake out in the center once the primary process ends.
The complacency will end once we have a name and a face to be worried about. It is to early to get all worked up about 2016 one way or the other.
cali
(114,904 posts)and there is no doubt that millions of dem voters will be disenfranchised.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)and maybe even after the 2013 elections in some states.
The preclearence is gone but section 2 still exists. It is likely that many of these laws will be dealt with before 2016. There is even a slight (although it is very slight) possibility that a new formula will be in place before 2016.
Even then, most of these laws are in states that (R)s would win anyways. It is unlikely that this change in the law will be enough to hand the White House to an (R) in 2016.
It is to soon to get so worked up about 2016. For all we know Rick Perry will be their nominee.
cali
(114,904 posts)and there are states like Wisconsin and PA.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Which is why it is to soon to get worked up about it.
We need to focus on 2014 and win some key battles even with disenfranchised voters being left out.
Lots of crazy RW Governors got elected in 2010 and will be back on the ballot in 2014. PA and WI are just two of them. It is very possible that we will have (D)s in those seats in time to do something about the 2016 election.
I am sympathetic to your concerns about the Shelby County v. Holder case. So much so that I already ordered my signs for the August 24th march on Washington, and booked my hotel for that matter. I still can't decide if I should fly or just drive. Both are a pain now a days.
Here is a link to my signs (which have already been shipped and I should have early next week). These are both 2 feet tall and 4 feet wide and fit into something I made back in '09, during the Health Care debate, to hold them which has a handle over 6 feet long. Please note the first one.
http://pdf.buildasign.com//Proof.ashx?tcid=6E4555474A77394D694949444E476E6E4C2B516664513D3D&width=700&height=450&watermark=false&r=1372550655289
http://pdf.buildasign.com//Proof.ashx?tcid=7238755A504331755752493047334E5963344D7668413D3D&width=700&height=450&watermark=false&r=1372550825142
P.S. The extra period in the second one, after the last question mark, has been edited out, this was just a proof.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Voter registration should be happening well ahead of that election.
The whole scandal BS going on is all about republicans taking back the senate and keeping control of the House. If they get get democrats to not voter for whatever reason, they have a good chance of getting what they want. If democrats vote they don't have that same chance.
If we can't keep the Senate and gains seats, at least, in the house, well nothing will get done in congress up to 2016 when republicans will once again lay all the blame on the president and the democrats, even though the facts say otherwise.
We should have learned on thing in 2010, not voting to "teach Obama a lesson" was a disaster! Republicans took the House, and are now in control of a lot of states. We don't need that to happen again because if it does, the future looks bad!
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)in swing states where they are pulling this crap with voter discrimination.
2014 is going to be huge one way or the other.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)We really don't have a roster of candidates for either side yet.
It is time to get worked up about 2014.
cali
(114,904 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)we are going to have to figure out how to gotv within the confines of voting rules.
CrispyQ
(36,470 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)that's not even arguable. The "unhappy left" of which I am a member will do what they invariably do, work for and vote for the dem.
CrispyQ
(36,470 posts)They being the media, the DLC democrats, the republicans, everyone. They will blame us & our 'lackluster' turnout. The left still gets blamed for 2010. Yet, the 'news' media never, never discusses gerrymandering & the recent SCOTUS ruling is already history, but when the dems lose next time, it will be our fault. I'm right there with you cali, a member of the unhappy left.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)For anyone who thinks the Republican party is on it's last legs or is going away anytime soon, they're not. They've been focusing on their "red state strategy" since they couldn't win nationally and have hijacked quite a few state legislatures.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)That is the issue that is the most current, and possibly the most important.
We CAN lose, and the Republicans CAN win.
GOTV 2014 and Beyond!
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)introducing voting laws that favor our side?
Fight fire with fire, already!
Andy823
(11,495 posts)However as long as the teapublicans control the House nothing will get passed. The first thing we need to do is vote out the do nothing members of congress and replace them with people who will try and work for the people, or at least not privatize the whole country. The supreme court did this, and if we don't make sure we have a democrat in the WH come 2016, there will be even more radical right wing judges put on the court. We can't afford that!
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)at a state level, though. Like restrict voting time for when nursing homes are serving dinner maybe.
mick063
(2,424 posts)Having your "Progressive" President appoint Goldman Sachs as his cabinet will do that to you.
I'm going with the "let the Teabillies shell shock the nation into common sense" route.
No more boiled frog for me.
I don't believe in doing this half assed. If we are going to be a blatant corporate state, then get on with it so that we can get a few American Idol zombies woke the fuck up.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)Let the Teabillies destroy the country between 2014 and 2016, then let Christie get in the WH. Boy some plan! Do you really think turning the country over to the morons on the right will make things better? If you do then you need some serious counseling!
Once they take control they won't let go, so your "plan" sucks big time!
mick063
(2,424 posts)As if this hasn't been done already.
What you propose is worse than what I propose.
You suggest that the typical American goes to bed at night thinking our President is a "Socialist" because FOX (or perhaps you?) told them so.
In effect, we are helping to redefine what the Left is. Do this slowly over a couple of generations and people won't know any better. They will think Reagan type policy is far, far left and the Koch brother vision is centrist. The younger folks won't know any better because it is the environment they grew up in.
The boiled frog approach is much greater long term damage in my opinion.
Better to shock the folks that remember what Social Security, Medicare, and unemployment insurance is. Better that the Tea Party awakens them from their slumber into outrage.
Now if you Authoritarian Gatekeepers (thanks to the DUer that came up with that beautiful term) can provide me with a candidate that is far different than what I suspect you put in front of me, I will work hard for your cause. I will contribute money to your cause. I will actively contribute.
You give me a Hillary or Obama and I abstain. Not only do I abstain, but I actively point out the worts.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)The GOP goes to war with Iran,so bring back ss medicare and unemployment gets tabled.
mick063
(2,424 posts)How else do you think people will wake the fuck up?
Certainly not with Obama defenders telling the world that things will be different. He campaigned on drawing a line in the sand with Iran. He wouldn't hesitate to drop a couple bunker busters on them. You know that as well as I do. He negotiated cuts to Social Security. Give me some real difference maker arguments please.
Try the scare tactics on someone that doesn't know any better.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)aka facts, facts proven in 2000.
Go ahead, keep saying that the GOP and MSM will not march in lockstep behind a GOp president, even though we had eight years of just that. Go ahead and tell the world that your protest votew as done in principle, even though it means their death.
and go ahead and pretend that while it gets ugly, that you might not be the first to to thrown to the flames.
mick063
(2,424 posts)I'm quaking in my boots.
Not over the GOP. Over the current Administration.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)because even if you disagree with me, I can point to you in 2016 and ask "was it worth it?"
Andy823
(11,495 posts)You don't seem to be afraid of the GOP, or the tea baggers, but you are "quacking in your boots" over the Obama administration! So I guess once your buddy "Christie" gets in the WH, he is going to so much better? Yeah, right, and I guess when the teabaggers take over congress they will play fair, not put in place laws that would simply destroy the country and turn it into their own warped version of "heaven on earth"!
Then again maybe you are waiting for a Rand Paul administration. 
Andy823
(11,495 posts)A Rand Paul, Jeb Bush, Chris Christie, will you abstain also? You are very good at calling people "authoritarian gatekeepers", but what the hell kind of a country would we have if one of your teapublican clowns got elected, along with a congress full of brain dead tea baggers who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground? You seem to think that would be better. So your plan is to teach the country a lesson and hope there is a country left once they get through with it, right?
I mean we all know just how wonderful your scenario would be, so much better than what we have now!
mick063
(2,424 posts)A pissed off country.
You folks aren't grasping the point.
We don't get off of this merry go round without a pissed off country.
My company commander in boot camp used to bark at us, "Give a guy enough rope and he will hang himself".
Give those fuckwads some rope.
Instead of the slow torturous death that the DNC is giving us, my proposal gives us a fighting chance. My proposal is similar to Japan "awakening the sleeping Giant".
You want more of the same? You want more Obama? You want to give us the corporate version of Chinese water torture? You want to give me Hillary or some other lame "centrist", "third way", corporate schmoozer?
I'm not buying it.
Give me Hermain Cane, Michelle Bachman, or the most batshit crazy nutcase you can dream up with, or give me a guy like Bernie Sanders, Alan Grayson, or Elizabeth Warren.
No more half assed shit for me.
No more delusional bullshit.
No more lies.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)But it's insane to think that giving the congress and the WH over to a bunch of radical morons for 4 years would make things better. Look what the republicans that won state elections back in 2010 have done already. Look at the insanity in the House after the tea party clowns got elected. Look at how much damage Bush did in his 8 years in office, and compared to the Rand Paul tea party nuts Bush will look like a liberal!
You can't put the patients in charge of the asylum and expect things to get better, it just won't work. Sure we have a long way to go to get things fixed, to bring about change, but you way is a disaster in the making one we may never be able to come back from. You want change then start working for it, don't just sit back and watch the crazies take over. I would love to see a Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren in the WH, but if you don't change the people in congress it won't make a damned bit of difference. Change starts at the bottom not at the top. No matter what any president wants to do, no matter what changes they may want to make, without help from congress they get nothing!
Jumping out of the frying pan into the fire is not really a smart idea.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)to throw away a career that she loves and is good at.
cali
(114,904 posts)It's also a sad little attempt at snark or an attempt to derail the op. In any case, it's lame, hon.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)Realistically, the Republicans should have had no shot at all in 2000 because of the perceived great stewardship of Clinton in the booming 90's. but I can't tell you how many people said "Yeah, but I just think it's time for a change" and voted for Bush. No one really cared about the blue dress and no one really cared about Gore's supposed wooden personality, they just felt it was too much of one party at the top.
Unless the Republicans run a real lunatic teabagger, and thankfully it looks like that's the only kind that can pass the primary, they'll probably win.
That's what makes the failure of 2009 so bad, we had a real opportunity to do great things and the corporately owned senate just wouldn't do them and Obama wouldn't do anything but beg the right for love instead of rolling them.
highmindedhavi
(355 posts)Rinse. Lather. Repeat.
sofa king
(10,857 posts)The Watergate break-in was at its core an attempted election theft. The objective was to illegally obtain insider political information against opponents. In its aftermath, Nixon attempted a cover-up.
Republicans learned from Watergate, and Ronald Reagan's October Surprise is still widely derided as a conspiracy theory, but here's the thing: the first story Reagan's people told about it is now discredited. Bill Casey did meet with Iranians; H.W. Bush did know about it, and though it took twenty-five years to find it, it's now documented.
W. stole it twice, simple as that, and the only proof required is that Republicans used the exact same tactics to hold off any real investigation of their actions, then destroyed the evidence which would have exonerated them. In a court of law, that would be considered probative evidence against them.
Now consider that it was only through the efforts of W., preventing researchers from fully probing the records of Reagan and H. W., which prevented some of those former officials from additional prosecution (the proof about H.W. being informed of Casey's movements in Europe, which came out half a decade ago, was overlooked by accident and found its way into the public record).
Then consider that the W. Administration was the most criminal, corrupt, and malevolent Presidency ever to curse the United States of America. Jeb Bush must win the White House to continue to protect his father and his brother. He will destroy anyone in his path, starting with his primary opponents and stopping at nothing with his Democratic opponent.
He will try to burn this nation to the ground before his family is called to account for what they have done. We'd best be ready for that, in addition to time-tested election theft games.
Turbineguy
(37,337 posts)That's why they are in such a hurry to finish the job Reagan started.
progressoid
(49,991 posts)For some it's too depressing to think about the possibility of a GOPer in the White House. So it's easier to put on the rose colored glasses than face the cold hard truth.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)of wanting a Rethug to win, just because you've examined the possibilities. That happens to me over on the Zimmerman threads, because I see what a poor job the prosecution is doing, and the effectiveness of GZ's legal team in winning all kinds of skirmishes. Just because you can see what the other side sees, doesn't mean you're taking that side.
I do think it is 80-90% likely that Hillary will run, get the nomination pretty much wrapped up by the end of February, then win the general, as GOP'ers decide that 2020 is their best shot, only once in American politics has one party held the White House for more than twelve years.
Only the long shots will emerge to run on the Rethuglican side, Rand Paul is taking that gamble, because he knows in a "normal" open seat year, he'd be a 10% candidate like his father was in most primary states.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)Because if we believed that a GOP person could get the WH, then we could not engage in our favorite pastime, which is beating each other up. Civil Warfare worked great in 2000 and 2010, why not 2016?
sarcasm flag up
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)You're right. Nothing is certain, as terrible a thought as that is.
On the other hand, the GOP brand was also nowhere near as damaged 16 years ago as it is today.
Moses2SandyKoufax
(1,290 posts)back in January 2001. Bush ran as a moderate and somewhat isolationist! Back in 1997, the GOP was very much the party of Dole, Forbes, Specter, and HW Bush.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)
temporary311
(955 posts)Or was the reign of Bush the Lesser a figment of my imagination?
