Are Egyptian citizens

[bluedeathray]

Showing us an example of how to force political change?

In the face of a power with a firm grip on the country?

Or are they just lucky that the military commanders are willing to oust the status quo...again?

[Arctic Dave]

1. I they are going to find out the winner is going to be the military.

Expect repeated delays while a guy with lots of medals on his chest solidifies power.

[MH1]

2. I'm pretty sure the Egyptian trajectory is NOT one to emulate.

If that's what you're asking.

From what I can tell, the people with power in their military have strong anathema to the prospect of theocracy. That is great for Egypt, considering the current situation, but bears no resemblance to this country.

I also wouldn't refer to the Muslim Brotherhood as "status quo" in Egypt. They were suppressed under Mubarak but being organized, were able to take advantage of the revolution. They were tentatively allowed some rein (and reign) but when it became apparent that they were going to go further than the military powers-that-be wanted them to, they get the boot.

The problem is, as many have noted, that it is a terrible precedent for "democracy".

Of course, what they need is a Constitution that enshrines religious freedom and certain human rights, and that prevents a religious party from gaining enough power to institute draconian laws. If they get that far than someone from the Muslim Brotherhood should be able to serve as President successfully - as long as they don't try to circumvent said constitution.

The root problem is that religious extremists tend not to accept the ideal of religious freedom and secular government. We have that problem here, although it isn't as obvious (perhaps) as it is in some other countries. But our military couldn't solve it even if they would try (thankfully I don't think they would ever do that) because much of their leadership is already co-opted into the cult that wishes theocracy for this country.

[Initech]

8. Yeah if you oust shit leaders the replacements are going to be shit as well.

We need to go after the big money interests that are financing the lousy leaders, that will break the cycle.

[Recursion]

3. I don't know that the miiltary overthrowing an elected leader is "an example" in any good sense

For all of Morsi's problems, he's who the majority of Egyptians voted for and want, and denying popular expression to leaders we don't like is how we got the middle east of today.

[sabbat hunter]

4. a majority elected ruler

does not mean they are allowed to repress the rights of the minority. Additionally many of who voted for Morsi, did so because he opposed the mubarak regime, not because they were Islamists like him.

[BOG PERSON]

5. on the one hand

it's good theyre rejecting the model of western democracies, where the ruling party gets to ram thru unpopular policies for a few years under the pretext of winning an election

otoh it's bad that they prefer to do this only because (it appears) they are unwilling or unable to confront the real problem here, which is the ruling military caste

[customerserviceguy]

6. It's clear that the military is the only strong institution in that country

When they had their fill of Mubarak, he was gone, and we've just seen that repeated with Morsy.

I'm sure that in the three decades since the Camp David Accords, they've managed to funnel their way a high proportion of the bribe money that we've been paying to both sides not to fight, while giving the veneer of an acceptable government to the Western world.

[Igel]

7. And that's a problem.

Perhaps an unavoidable one. The Army in Egypt, like in Turkey, respects stability more than rights.

It's a cultural thing, I suppose. Not wanting chaos.

But growth takes a bit of chaos. If you don't grant space for civil society to grow, you never get any. A lot of civil society looks pretty chaotic.