Okay . . . this plane thing . . . . . what am I supposed to think about it?

[Stinky The Clown]

Reports are unclear and confusing.

Is it a left/right thing?

A like/dislike Obama thing?

A pro/anti Morsi thing?

A Lindsay vs McCain thing?

A Couric vs Palin thing?

Was the plane hijacked? Forced down? Downed with trouble? Running scared? Smuggling humans?

Did the EU capture it? Detain it? Harass it? Search it? De-Ice it? Hook up an APU when it was in Vienna? Allow cabin cleaners on board? Service the toilet holding tanks?

Was DNA found on its handle? Did it get an A in Stand Your Ground class?

[Pholus]

1. Just think it's all messed up. Same old, same old. nt

[Deep13]

2. Wrong question.

What you should ask is, "What do I think about it."

[HereSince1628]

3. And, how would this look different from a successful obfuscation?

While gazing at a dazzling kaleidoscope of confusion we are both fascinated and not looking at the features of the greater space that surrounds us.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. We once took the Great Obfuscations of Old Europe tour.

It was a Perillo tour back when the old man was still in charge. Airfare was included and the 707 had a smoking section.

[HereSince1628]

12. LOL, I thought Great Obsfuscations was a PBS series.

[JustAnotherGen]

21. Lol! N/t

[treestar]

4. There was something wrong with the gas gauge on a private plane

This was exaggerated into a "kidnapping."

[Stinky The Clown]

22. Actually, it would be a Jet-A gauge.

Was a hood alleged to have been used in the kidnapping?

Who got the ransom note with the letters cut from a magazine?

Was the cut up magazine found at the Austrian President's girlfriend's house? I had heard one report of that but then never heard it again.

[99Forever]

5. Look at it for what it is.

Bullying on an international scale.


Do you think that's a good thing for the USA to do?

[Stinky The Clown]

8. I don't think anything. That's what I'm asking.

[99Forever]

17. To put it another way:

What would think if Obama were treated this exact same way?

That okay with you?

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. Is it OK with *you*?

I'm not sure I know the answer!

[99Forever]

23. Huh?

I must need more caffeine.

[Stinky The Clown]

24. I'm sticking with my usual affectational befuddlement

[ananda]

10. That's how I see it.

Countries in line with globalization engage in global bullying.

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. The authoritarians have made fools of themselves

[Stinky The Clown]

11. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch!

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. Yeeeaaaaahhhhhh!

Not to mention the worshippers, cheerleaders, and cultists!

[Stinky The Clown]

18. Court jesters, camp followers, and general hangers on.

Imagine a combination of the North Korean Army marching while wearing big floppy shoes, rainbow wigs, and red rubber noses.

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. Clown ass muh-fuckers

No offense to Clowns, of course.

[Stinky The Clown]

25. Of course

:cough:

[randome]

9. That assumptions and twittering is no way to go through life.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Stinky The Clown]

14. I went to school with a guy who looked just like that . . . .

. . . . except he was fond of wearing togas. His friend was recently the the US Veep.

[SidDithers]

15. Basically, Obama kidnapped Harriet Tubman...nt

Sid

[Itchinjim]

27. Ha!

[greytdemocrat]

28. Dammit!!!

I knew it was something serial!!!!

[sibelian]

16. Stay calm, Stinky. Stay frosty. We're all strung out. But Obama will know what to do.

Obama will know...

[intaglio]

26. Essentially it is the Bolvian Pres seeking publicity

1) The Bolivian plane reported a problem with it's fuel system (specifically a fuel gauge that was not working)

2) This is not an emergency and the Bolivian pilots did not declare an emergency

3) Because it was not an emergency airports do not have to disrupt their holding stacks and landing priorities

4) Various airports either did not have the facilities to for investigation or could not accommodate a non-emergency landing

5) The aircraft was told to return to an airport that had both room in its holding stack and facilities for investigation

6) France did not deny this aircraft access to its airspace

7) Spain did not refuse access to airspace

8) Portugal did not refuse access to airspace

9) ATCs would not give a reason for refusing access to holding stacks, the comment about Snowden is a fabrication by the Bolivians

10) Non-scheduled access to overcrowded holding stacks and landing facilities causes disruption and misery to thousands of people

Feel free to copy/paste

[Stinky The Clown]

29. What's the source of that list?

Very well written.

I see no mention of the reports of official apologies. If the list is true, why the alleged apologies?

How bad *was* the trauma to the back of George's head?

[intaglio]

31. Started with Kos

Last edited Thu Jul 4, 2013, 05:55 PM - Edit history (2)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/03/1221091/-Bolivian-Plane-Landed-Due-to-Faulty-Fuel-Gauge

who in turn took it from Atlantic Wire.http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/07/tale-re-routed-bolivian-presidents-plane-falling-apart/66838/ The Atlantic Wire uses various sources including the Guardian.

France and Spain not refusing airspace was AP via Yahoo http://news.yahoo.com/snowden-case-france-denies-blocking-bolivia-plane-090257428.html as well as the Wire

The Wire article also has a recording of the Bolivian flight's request regarding assistance

Portugal quoted as allowing overflight.

The only diversion rook place over Austria

There was no "search" just the police requesting permission to walk through.

ATC protocols from talking to an ATC at SF conventions a few years ago followed up by simple reading

The tale about Snowden only came from Bolivian sources

I note our full time "revolutionary" Manny has joined in and he will note that the French apologised for any offense given to the Bolivians, which is normal diplomatic speak for "we don't know WTF you are going on about but it won't harm us to be on your good side (plus we have an aversion to the US)"

As an addition for the rabid conspiracy theorists amongst us the French had pre-approved overflight because the flight plan had already been filed and approved. If France had refused overflight then the flight plan would have been different and probably not routed over Austria.

Edited to add that the ATC protocols have also been confirmed by my brother in law who has had a light pilots license for about 20 years.

[sibelian]

33. I'm so glad you're here.

I was EVER SO worried.

[MannyGoldstein]

34. Someone tell Francois Hollande, tout de suite!

He's running around saying that he personally reversed France's decision once he knew Morales was on board!

"There was conflicting information about the passengers who were on board,” Hollande said in Berlin. “When I knew it was the plane of the Bolivian president, I immediately gave permission for it to fly” over French territory. The White House refused to comment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/bolivia/10158185/Edward-Snowden-Bolivia-accuses-US-of-putting-Evo-Moraless-life-at-risk.html

This gratuitous apology is even more absurd because since when does the leader of one of the world's major countries need to personally weigh in on whether to let a plane into its airspace? Since we know that France didn't, say, refuse overflight because America had a gut feelin' that Snowden was on board, why would Hollande have to override a decision that wasn't made in the first place?

And of course, if France had refused overflight which we know it didn't, the plane was probably already turned around and headed elsewhere by that point.

[intaglio]

35. Hollande did not say France had refused overflight

Because he would have been lying

Flights are given clearance at the start of the flight because refusals amend the flight plan. If France had refuse overflight it is unlikely the plane would have flown over Austria it would have been routed via Turkey and Egypt

Hollande said that if flight clearance had been refused then he apologised. Which is diplomatic speak for "I haven't the faintest idea what happened but it does not hurt to apologise"

You really do want to hurt this President, don't you Manny.

[MannyGoldstein]

36. This is making my head hurt

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023188760

[MannyGoldstein]

30. Perhaps you could tell France to stop apologizing for

something they didn't do?

And tell the NY Times that they're making crap up about Portugal and Italy?

And why do people think that searching a head of state's plane is abnormal? Air Force One gets searched by foreign countries all of the time by people looking for hidden war criminals.

Too much outrage, not enough facts.

[hootinholler]

32. Couric Vs. Palin!

I will pay to watch that cage match!

Hope you are well Sir Stanky.

As to de plane, de plane, I don't know WTF to think. Possibly either some agency has Snowden or the NSA got punked. Please let it be the latter if for no other reason than ironic comedic effect.