General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf a person wanted to defeat progressivism, what would
he or she do? I think I have the answer.
That person would start a campaign to plant suspicion of elected Democrats and would recruit people to spread the idea that those elected were not really progressive and that, despite their successes in improving people's conditions of life, they were the enemy of the people.
Over a period of time, that message could be inserted into all sorts of places and cheered on by others. If enough people could be recruited, even places that were bastions of support for Democrats and staunch in their opposition to Republicans could begin to become places that opposed Democrats who were elected in previous elections.
The key would be to claim that those doing this carrying of water were the true progressives, and that those who supported progress by electing Democrats were dupes. Websites could be started to slant the discussion in this direction, while pretending to be progressive. Selective reporting of news and blogging extensively would give those websites an appearance of importance they could not earn on their own. The word would spread. That's the theory and practice.
Fortunately, that trick won't work, despite any number of people trying to carry it out. The voters will still vote in their own candidates, despite any such trickery. The people are not as stupid as some think they are.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)it's because the conditions are getting *worse* that they are.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)I don't think so, actually. You can claim whatever you wish. I look at numbers. No. Conditions are actually improving for people. Not everyone is seeing the improvements, but many are. And the improvements are real. Most recently, our LGBT friends had their marriage equality fight see some major improvements. Families are able to insure their college age children and help them secure health care. The unemployment rate is down, with different results in different areas, of course.
Improvements are there, and those who are experiencing them know they are there. Most people aren't even exposed to the "facts" being promulgated on the Internet. They're living their lives. False flag operations rarely succeed, because they simply don't reach more than a tiny minority.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:42 PM - Edit history (2)
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/06/07/2121581/first-quarter-of-2013-saw-largest-wage-drop-ever/?mobile=ncAs Health Law Changes Loom, A Shift To Part-Time Workers
http://www.npr.org/2013/04/29/179864601/as-health-law-changes-loom-a-shift-to-part-time-workers
More Americans Uninsured in 2011
More American adults lacked health insurance coverage last year than in any year since Gallup and Healthways started tracking it in 2008. The uninsured rate has been increasing since 2008, climbing to 17.1% in 2011.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/152162/americans-uninsured-2011.aspx
Corporate Profits Soar as Proprietors Income Stagnates: The Decline of Small Business and what to do about it.
http://www.economonitor.com/dolanecon/2013/06/03/corporate-profits-soar-as-proprietors-income-stagnates-the-decline-of-small-business-and-what-to-do-about-it/
Unemployment rate
Labor force participation rate
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)/sarcasm off
bvar22
(39,909 posts)76% of Americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/24/pf/emergency-savings/index.html
New Rule (Passed by Congress and signed by President Obama) signals Kiss of Death for Pensions
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100694955
Wealthy win lion's share of major tax breaks
http://www.boston.com/business/news/2013/05/29/wealthy-win-lion-share-major-tax-breaks/Ua0UyYle21EUXub7g1suCI/story.html
Half of America is in poverty, and its creeping toward 75%
http://www.alternet.org/economy/real-numbers-half-america-poverty-and-its-creeping-toward-75-0
Wealth gap widens as labor's share of income falls
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/wealth-gap-widens-labors-share-income-falls-1B6097385
As the Economy Recovers, the Wealth Gap Widens
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/rick-newman/2013/03/11/as-the-economy-recovers-the-wealth-gap-widens
Top One Percent Captured 121 Percent Of All Income Gains
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/12/top-one-percent-income-gains_n_2670455.html
Corporate Profits Hit Record High While Worker Wages Hit Record Low
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/03/1270541/corporate-profits-wages-record/?mobile=nc
These things ^ do NOT happen by accident.
They take careful planning, preparation, marketing, buying the right politicians, message control, and the marginalization of any opposition.
[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]
You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(60,022 posts)...and it is squarely on the backs of Republicans - but just on the basis of "are things getting better"? - the answer here is "No"
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)Your claim is EXACTLY why we should elect democrats at all levels, Federal, State and Local. The posers here on DU that attack democrats and assign all failures to democrats never focus on the real problem, republicans.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)the most critical things to change -- the most critical being the near-total domination of economic and political life by the ruling class.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,022 posts)It is really the basis of advertising, isn't it? Take a message, repeat, repeat, repeat.....and it works for any sort of message.
We as humans are particularly susceptible - (would Bud Light be the best selling beer in the country otherwise?)
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(60,022 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(60,022 posts)Wilms
(26,795 posts)And we've witnessed just that. The 1% doesn't give a damn one way or the other about social issues...so don't even start. (Plus we're awash in blue links about it).
But spin away. It's a holiday weekend. Enjoy your Independence.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)Then it will be back to working to get good, progressive people nominated and elected to office in my own district.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)I fell for it big time.
I remember when Hillary's campaign put out information indicating that Obama had committed to the canadians to NOT undo NAFTA. But since BO seemed so committed to what was best for the country I fumed and called her campaign people liars.
In retrospect, I bet her campaign people were right all along.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)The two of them were the same choice. Good cop/bad cop...depending upon your POV one or the other. But it was all the same.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)There is no difference between the two of them.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)No.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)Really...
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)if the party is doing it's job and representing the average Joe then none of these tactics would work.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)Something may come to you.
forestpath
(3,102 posts)I don't call that a success in improving anyone's life.
Voting records are public (so far, anyway). We can see their non-progressive votes.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)That will make the difference, perhaps.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)forestpath
(3,102 posts)P.S. I'm a she.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)trying to "plant suspicion" in the Democratic administration. What is your concept of democracy? Sitting down and shutting up? Is this Rambo?
It's the progressives that are fighting for the Constitution while the conserva-Dems scream for status-quo.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)to reply to any responses to this. I have to leave my computer for a while.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)They can and in recent times often do overlap. But one is not the other and they should not be equated, lest the assumption be that party loyalty is the same as ethical belief.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)I'm not seeing their candidates too much. We have two parties. One or the other fields the winning candidate for every important office. Which will you choose?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)It exists independent of party or person.
You are trying to equate party and ideology. It doesn't work that way.
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)MineralMan
(146,333 posts)Enjoy the 4th!
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)There is a place for those sort of posts and it's not GD.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)You can contact the hosts of GD with your concern by clicking it.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Unlike many I don't feel the need to control others, I was just stating my opinion of your conspiracy minded post.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)progressive platform to carry out reactionary policies - even policies that violate core values of western democracy.. Then bamboozle a significant number of the party faithful into embracing these reactionary policies and smearing those who remain faithful to liberal and democratic values accusing them of being on the other side. Thus progressivism can be defeated even under a liberal veneer. Not only does this defeat progressivism in the name of progressivism - it insures that there are no viable alternatives to reactionary policies.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)implemented austerity policies internationally -- at least in this go-round. even the socialists and communists in some cases.
pampango
(24,692 posts)The GOP's only hope at this point is to sell the idea that "We are no worse than the Democratic Party". I don't think a lot of minorities believe that but a majority of whites seem to.
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)it's corporate shill representatives push the same policies that their voting base voted *against*.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)he could recruit a conservative from Freeperville to infiltrate a liberal, Democratic message board, become its forum host, and do message control to convince newbies that progressive ideas are faulty and conservative ideas are good.
I think this has the potential to work.
leftstreet
(36,116 posts)HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Thanks for saying it.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)Thank GAWD it isn't happening!!!
MM's way insures obedience and groupthink. Which sucks. I'm reminded of the horror film "Invasion of the Body Snatchers."
Hey...wait a sec...
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Kurovski
(34,655 posts)She's so much prettier when she smiles!
Maven
(10,533 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,543 posts)and fortunately the average voter doesn't imbibe in the travesty that has befallen DU... and it's a matter of working locally to help take back the House and hold the Senate.
K&R
cali
(114,904 posts)a former long term freeper who spent years attacking progressives.
cali
(114,904 posts)of carrying water for repukes and conservatives when they were fighting for progressive causes while at the same time he was attacking progressives, supporting bushco and posting anti LGBT crap. And he was doing that over in hateful freeperville.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)And that is so disturbing.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)this guy was at FR posting libels against gay people and John Kerry during the 2004 election and continued through 2008 at least, probably still.
Not to mention the racist stuff, he called African American Obama voters 'caricatures' and 'stereotypes' among other things. Vile crap, bigoted on many levels.
cali
(114,904 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)to his bigoted posts on FR and other right wing sites or I'd never have seen it. Of course he 'self deleted' all of those DU OPs just as he did the OP the day SCOTUS repealed DOMA in which he equated marriage equality to people marrying a tomato plant.
cali
(114,904 posts)I missed that vile bit. How was he not tombstoned for that?
The Link
(757 posts)A joke.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)eventual self deletion after many people told him how offensive it was, not to mention poorly timed and coming from person who has no standing to make any jokes every again about any minority, the fact that he does demonstrates that he is not remorseful of past actions but instead repetitive of those actions.
That implies that they stopped at some point, I'm not sure that is the case.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)frustrated_lefty
(2,774 posts)Much simpler to align oneself with rich and powerful moneyed interests, stifle dissent, and eliminate all opportunity for the unwashed masses to drag themselves out of the gutter.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Didn't think so.
Trying to de-legitimatize others' opinions isn't very cool, you know.
treestar
(82,383 posts)As we often see here. Make overly idealistic demands and refuse to consider reason but only emotion. Complain about how nothing the government can do for them is ever enough. Demand there be no military spending or national security. Act like cops are always in the wrong (often calling them pigs or some such thing).
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)And sometimes just plain making things up.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)send in ringers to reframe issues. Those ringers would have good leadership skills and be great at propaganda. They would start usurping words and phrases and shaping them to mean something else. Calling their think tank "The Progressive Policy Institute," for example, thus linking progressivism with it's antithesis, neoliberalism. Over a few decades, they become the mainstream, and the old "progressives" become the loony fringe left. True progressivism is defeated by the "new" "progressives."
Bonhomme Richard
(9,000 posts)attempt to create confusion in the minds of the fence sitters.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,241 posts)calimary
(81,510 posts)I'm gonna have to refer to this in Will Pitt's thread.
If we damage OUR brand too much - we'll wind up stuck with Brand X.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)They aren't really undermining the American worker, it just appears that way.
No one is pushing for MORE deregulating, job killing trade agreements, that's just what "they" want you to think. We're actually renegotiating NAFTA and putting on our comfortable shoes to walk a picket line.
Pay no attention to the immigration bill that loads the MIC with more cash and :gasp: undermines American jobs with insourcing. That's all just hooey. Everyone knows there are no Americans that can do those smarty smart tech jobs at a reasonable price.
What? Someone told you we got the Heritage Foundation 's health care law? Phooey! There's a robust public option that will eventually turn into single payer!
The Post office? Lies!
Bailouts? Lies!
Appointing Republicans to major cabinet positions? Never happened.
So on and so forth. We have Reagan jr. as president and a party full of Reaganites. There is no bullshit about that. Social issues are great but you can't feed your family with them. And you can't feed your family with these turncoat, Reaganesque labor and economic issues.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)when really, he's a tool for the 1%.
That isn't what they would do, that's what they've done.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)wasn't an example of your famous F.U.D. theory. But it couldn't be, right?
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence.
http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/6456/
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)The Link
(757 posts)Is this true?
cali
(114,904 posts)google search or do a site search here. He claims that his years there were as a mole but many of his posts belie that claim.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)on that site since 2006, when I was banned as an antifreeper, which I was. I will not discuss it further. The Meta forum no longer exists. If you want to know about me, click the links in my signature line.
cali
(114,904 posts)I read your posts there at the time.
mick063
(2,424 posts)which you obviously are.................
please don't confuse progressive ideals with defending a pseudo Republican sock puppet.
You do not carry the progressive banner. If there is suspicion to be raised, it should be raised about those that tow the corporate line to defend a fleeting, forgettable individual that will be absent from public consciousness in about 3 years.
BanTheGOP
(1,068 posts)That is the basis for absolute World Peace and tranquility.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Thus effecting a coup.
And this after taking funds from the state party to get elected.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)scramble to the right as soon as they are in office this way they gather the heat from the "opposition" for being far left wing, socialist, and/or communist that way word on the street is what ever the corporatist do is liberal or progressive.
You then may adapt Laissez Fare economics, imperialism, a permanent war footing, systematic destruction of civil liberties, and assault public education as then the only brakes on the system is that the TeaPubliKlans moderate or at least stop moving the goal posts further and further right. If they do not then Democrats have functional license to go to virtually any extreme as long as they do not actually clearly surpass the "opposition" for a prolonged period of time. There is extra room to function to the right because the "opposition" has been so rabid and out of hand that just matching them isn't enough to move the needle due to rightful fear that they would be even more extreme than promised or proven in the past so that even if the nominal "Democrat" does what the TeaPubliKlan did in the past they can still present as a lesser evil because the new mouthbreathing bigot will do worse.
Then all you have to do is browbeat your Democratic voters with of the other to keep them in line and if anyone makes friction you invite them to vote for a TeaPubliKlan. If that doesn't work then guilt them. If that doesn't work then bully them. If that doesn't work then accuse them of racism, ratfucking, question their patriotism, sexism, wishing suffering, whatever it takes other than any effort to remedy the reasons for upset.
All the while you support the oppositions world view and accept their framing and work tirelessly to shrink the range of acceptable debate and ideas and display unwaivering support of the establishment while attacking the left and left ideals from with in the party and you attack like a rabid raccoon support for those ideas, feverishly making every effort to flip the focus from policy ideals to personalities and party so that there is no progressive movement at all and failing that make sure the ground is salted within the party so that the movement has no traction electorally and can continue to be attacked for pissing into "the big tent" that only has room for conservatives and corporatist.
That will probably be a fair start, you could also team up with the "opposition" to cut off funding to grass roots organizations and attack coalition interest groups as libertarian, traitors, or whatever else can be flung at the wall to concentrate all focus into the now corporate political party.
Failing to do much other than to bolster the MIC, banks, and unleash the Just Us Department on anybody that gets out of the party line also poisons the well creating massive distrust and cynicism.
You can also put "the opposition" in charge the military, clandestine operations, and Treasury and campaign vigorously for those that are supposedly hamstringing the agenda from inside just to be sure folks are frustrated as hell.
I guess just keep up with what you are doing and hope fools fall for the tricks and if that doesn't work use the powers that the state has gathered to limit any other movement.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)And if a frog wanted to stop bumping his ass every time he jumped,
he would grow WINGS!
And THAT is about as likely as your contrived conspiracy nonsense!
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Interesting thread. Doesn't appear to be going the way the OP intended.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)XemaSab
(60,212 posts)Freedom is slavery.
Progressivism is whatever we define it as.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)I question. They do NOTHING but incessantly attack democrats and never attack a republican or the regressive republican policies that are being enacted in states that are controlled by republicans.