I think Snowden is a bright fellow.

[MineralMan]

I also think he is not very worldly smart. It is my opinion that he was misled be people pretending to be his friends, who got what they could get from him. Those friends are more or less immune from any blowback, since they very loosely fit the category of journalists.

Now that he has no more to offer them, he is left swinging in the breeze. His "friends" are not in evidence, and are distancing themselves from him. Sadly, I think he has been duped into doing something that will destroy his life.

This is a source of contempt in me for those who used this person to advance themselves.

[Tarheel_Dem]

1. I think his father came to much the same conclusion. nt

[MineralMan]

4. Well, the more I see, the more this makes sense.

I worry about his state of mind at this point, and hope he gets support from some quarter. From what I have seen, I do not believe he has great personal strength, and may be foundering.

I in no way support what he did, but I am quite concerned for him.

[randome]

2. Neither Snowden nor Lindsay seem to be pining for one another.

They don't mention one another in public any longer. I'm starting to think their relationship was also not what it might have been.

Snowden has been living alone for much longer than his stint in Moscow.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[HipChick]

7. she was a jump-off

"Pole-Dancer"? Right..

[randome]

21. Yeah, she 'jumped off' pretty readily.

"Ed who?"

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Motown_Johnny]

3. He should have gone to Ecuador first, not Hong Kong.

He really should have been somewhere safe before releasing his information.

[HipChick]

5. He didn't have a plan..

That's fundamental

[Cleita]

9. I don't think he would have been that safe in Ecuador either.

He probably would have been better off in Cuba. The Castros love sticking it to the gringos.

[Cleita]

6. I believe he has said, it might cost him his life.

That kind of makes me think he was sincere if naive. He did make that bargain and will probably pay the price.

[MineralMan]

11. I am not at all pleased with Greenwald's role

in this, to say the least.

[Bluenorthwest]

8. I have a special place in my heart for folks who work up personalized and emotional

theories about people they only know from media. It is such a sweet sentiment at the root of it. Like primitives amazed by a mirror so moon faced and wistful....

[Cleita]

13. Wow, primitives. I wonder how they feel about this stereotyping of

aboriginal, native people no matter where they are from. You know many of them actually have communications like TV and computers and know a lot about the world around them.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. The word 'primative' has a definition,Cleita, it does not mean 'native or aboringinal

people' just because you think it does. Primitive means:
primitives plural of prim·i·tive (Noun)
Noun
A person belonging to a preliterate, nonindustrial society or culture.

So a person with TV and computers is not a primitive nor is their culture primitive. To be primitive the culture is not literate,not industrial.
A modern primitive might be one who is culturally illiterate and enthralled by media figures and constructed personalities created for those figures, much like a person who has never seen a mirror might be amazed by the mirror.
So nice try. But your arrow missed. Words mean things. This is a literate culture.

[Cleita]

25. It's pretty racist IMO. but you believe whatever you want.

I have been acquainted with some "primitives" in my travels in South America sixty or so years ago and they aren't that easily cowed or impressed by our superior technology. They also know how to look at their image in a pond so they don't need mirrors and when confronted with one look upon new stuff as interesting with an eye as to how they can use it. The ones I knew were more impressed with flashlights than mirrors. Those and the batteries they run on were top trade commodities at one time.

[Bluenorthwest]

35. Those people you speak of are not primitives, you are wrong to call them that.

If they are using flashlights and trading in batteries they are no longer pre industrial so for you to call them primitives because of their ethnicity is incorrect and potentially racist. Primitive is a state of cultural or personal development, not a type of person, race, ethnicity or any of that. A person whose culture comes to use industrial tools or written language is no longer a primitive.
Words mean things, and it is you who is ignoring the actual meaning of the word to speak of 'what you want to believe'.
You met tribal peoples, indigenous people. To call them primitives, as you do, is not something I would do. Because I own a dictionary and would not care to insult someone who is indigenous by calling them primitive, as you do.

[Cleita]

38. My point is that there are no primitives, nor have there ever been.

That scenario you brought up was strictly out of Hollywood jungle movies of the thirties and forties. To think of any people that way is racist. Also, to accuse me of not owning a dictionary is really snobbish and condescending of you. For someone who whines about being persecuted and discriminated about, I would think you would be more sensitive to other people who struggle with being different whether it's their place in life, their religion, their ethnicity or their gender.

[Harmony Blue]

10. The fact that Snowden is still alive and free

and has more information to reveal shows he has outsmarted the big dogs thus far.

[randome]

17. By painting himself into a corner?

I think the fact that no other country -not even the Wikileaks attorneys- want anything to do with him shows that they don't consider Snowden to be authentic.

And 'free'? Where does that interpretation come from?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[davidn3600]

31. He'll eventually accept Putin's conditions, I think

He ain't ever coming back to the United States. That's for sure.

Why would he come back? He comes back here and it's a certain show trial with life in prison. He'd defect to North Korea before he comes back here. Kim Jong Un would treat him like royalty.

[randome]

34. I don't think Putin wants him, however.

His 'offer' was one he hoped would be rejected. Putin might deport him before he has a chance to change his mind.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[MineralMan]

19. How is he free?

I am not seeing that. He is, in fact, trapped.

[HipChick]

36. I don't think he has that more information

I mean...China and Russia has all that now..he lost his leverage

[CakeGrrl]

43. I'd like to know if Booz Allen or the NSA knows what he stole.

The DOJ would know exactly how much leverage he had or didn't have.

[HipChick]

46. They would be able to tell what he pulled off servers

[Cali_Democrat]

12. They used him...like a prostitute...

They got what they wanted from him and then they tossed him aside.

It's actually quite sad.

[MineralMan]

15. Yes. Sad.

[Cleita]

16. Worse. A prostitute would have made sure s/he got paid first. n/t

[Arctic Dave]

14. And Bill Frist could give medical advice from a two second video.

I wish I had a superpower.

[leftstreet]

23. LOL

[longship]

18. Nah! I cannot go there.

He has been utterly inept in this whole affair. He has shot from the hip throughout, never considering the possible consequences of his misguided (likely literally! -- Hello Wikileaks! Are you listening?) attempt to stay out of the clutches of US justice.

The only evidence one needs to back up this claim are the journalist reports and official government pronouncements of the past few days.

Whether for good or bad, Edward Snowdenis is sitting in a dill pickle barrel. And seemingly, nobody is liking sour pickles this season.

[flamingdem]

22. The last train to asylum left the station with Evo Morales

He was the only one still being discussed a possible match for Snowden, and it was all probably just talk. But now we can see no country is going to be able to ferry him without great expense (a direct charter flight) and a possible violation of their own laws. They'd have to change their constitutions.

Snowden probably thinks he's worth it. As this snowball rolls down the hill towards it's destination we see Assange and Greenwald running out of the way.

Greenwald seems to be preparing people to underestimate what he's got left to give to save his own reputation, after all that exaggeration.

Someone in the USA got lucky or knows how to play chess better than Assange imo. That person got Putin to offer asylum and now since Snowden rejected it - GAME OVER.

[longship]

28. Game over, Man. Game over!

But this is where the fun starts. Spin the wheel of insanity and predict how long Mr. Snowden remains a free man. (And I use that adjective advisably -- how free is he when he's stuck in diplomatic limbo in a transit zone in Moscow?)

Somebody's going to give in soon, I suspect, but I wouldn't be putting many bets on Edward Snowden winning out if I were you. Not unless you had very favorable odds. Given that, I cannot advise you further.

[randome]

32. This is where I get worried about him.

If he truly can't come to terms with the position he's in, might he do himself harm? That would be the absolute worst outcome because the CT's would never let go.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[flamingdem]

33. Putin said that his security team is in talks with us teams

whatever that means. I guess that they had to establish that Snowball didn't want to stay in Russia.

That was done in two ways - first by the condition of not continuing his leaks - then the withdrawal of the Russian application by Snowden. Why did he do that if the Enquirer can leak for him? More to that story.

So now Putin won't look pro-Yankee when Snowden does his perp walk out the Pod hotel.

Otherwise I think you're thinking, me too, that Snowden will be holed up in that hotel for months.

That will be costly!

[longship]

37. Costly, or at minimum diplomatically very complex and delicate.

This has truly turned into a chess game.

Too bad, Snowden and his advisors apparently believed it was checkers. This is no longer about Snowden or his leaked PowerPoints, if it ever was. (I don't know, and those who claim they do, very likely don't.)

But I love staying tuned to this channel because it remains very entertaining. Unfortunately the risk may be great. I am still not sure about where I stand on that. I have some ideas but, unlike many here, I admit that the circumstances have gone beyond any claim I might have to an ethical position.

What will happen is what will happen. Snowden, and the rest of us, will have to deal with that, too.

The issues are much more important than mere entertainment. But that's all I have right now.

[flamingdem]

39. I'm in it for the

entertainment as well. I love watching the news unfold like this and trying to predict what will happen. I'm usually wrong but sometimes I get an uncanny 6th sense and I know for sure.

Last night I had one of those moments when Forbes posted an article saying that China was on Snowden's asylum list. I didn't remember to check that again today. It made me think that there is a Hong Kong connection via Wikileaks or maybe even of his own that was involved with setting up those protests.

Now if we are unsure of the ethics and the facts, why were thousands in HK and China aroused to such an extent by this issue, this guy? It must have been pre-planned.

Now today, we have Snowball's dad hiring a hardcore libertarian neo-con. So where is the intersection of Neo-con and Libertarian, how does that connect to the usual suspects (neo-cons/Republicans/Obama obstructionists). Who thinks out these arcane plans, but then there's Wikileaks and Assange. The pieces don't fit. hmmm

Most of all I hope we find out if there is something hidden here - the irony being the presumed ethical stance of transparency (oh sure..).

[longship]

50. Well, I think this less of a conspiracy and more ineptness.

Both Snowden and Assange (supposedly) did not really know what hornet's nest they would stir up with this. I think they presumed -- apparently incorrectly -- that the world would be unequivocally on their side. Assange apparently mistakenly thought that his safety at the Ecuadorean embassy in London gave him Carte Blanche permission to leverage his position to help Snowden. We see now that he was wrong. Assange very well may have put his case in real danger as it is becoming increasingly obvious that Ecuador may be tiring of him.

Meanwhile Snowden is running out of options. Nobody will commit to assisting him. Some are not ruling it out, but it is becoming increasingly apparent that it would require some assistance from the Russians and Putin seems willing to let Snowden stew in his pickle barrel within the Sheremetyevo airport transit zone.

Nobody is willing to commit. Snowden is screwn!

[AlinPA]

24. Why didn't he go to Iran? North Korea? They would love him.

[tammywammy]

26. I tend to agree.

I don't think he was completely talked into it though. I think he was disenchanted with the government, got the job to steal secrets and thought everyone would think he's a great hero. I don't think he thought through the whole thing. I mean, was he really surprised the US cut off his passport? Frankly with the amount of security training he should have received with his clearance he should have known exactly what would happen.

I don't have sympathy for him, and find him being stuck at the airport amusing.

YMMV

[DisgustipatedinCA]

27. So in actuality, you think he's a naïf, & you've transferred all blame to Greenwald

Presto change-o, you've done it! It's fucking genius, Karl. This'll f them like they've never been f'd before.



Ed: spelling error

[MineralMan]

52. I see you read my post.

That's good.

[BOG PERSON]

29. if he was really smart he would have sought asylum in north korea

(1) i believe (i can't confirm this) that north korea doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US and (2) it's probably one of the few places left on the planet the US cant kidnap him out of and (3) they would have been happy to take him in. but like you said he's not worldly smart . so he's boned. sad story. oh well. at least he ruined his life for a worthy cause.

[Cleita]

30. There you go and he may end up there yet. Who knows.

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. It won't destroy his life...he'll do 36 months in a minimum sec federal, then go on tour

blabbering nonsenses to all his lefty fanboys.

Dude will have a decent house in Malibu inside of 10 years.

[struggle4progress]

44. that would be a good outcome

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. That will be the outcome

Much ado about, well, very little.

[CakeGrrl]

41. I question how much of a 'dupe' he is. He has a history of resenting social programs

namely Social Security, and the government - and not in the 'I wish it could be better' way that some who support him claim to want.

The turnaround from leakers "should be shot in the balls" to becoming one big-time would be of interest, if one could get the real story.

[Galraedia]

42. Snowdick on Social Security:

< TheTrueHOOHA> save money? cut this social security bullshit
< User11> hahahayes
< User18> Yeah! Fuck old people!
< User11> social security is bullshit
< User11> let's just toss old people out in the street
< User18> Old people could move in with .
< User11> NOOO
< User11> they smell funny
< TheTrueHOOHA> Somehow, our society managed to make it hundreds of years without social security just fine
< TheTrueHOOHA> you fucking retards
< TheTrueHOOHA> Magically the world changed after the new deal, and old people became made of glass
< TheTrueHOOHA> yeah, that makes sense

[loyalsister]

47. I hadn't given it much thought

But, I think you're right. He definitely has facilitated Greenwald's opportunity to advocate his libertarian ideas. Now that he has a stage he can continue to push the Paul agenda.

[rhett o rick]

48. Cant we plez have a limit to the hate threads in GD? Make a special group for the haters. nm

[Mojorabbit]

49. I would love it also. I have never seen anything like it in all the years I have been here. nt

[Thinkingabout]

51. Perhaps he diud not find out what a patsy does before he begged at the feet of his puppet master who

could care less about what is happening now.