Analysis of Zimmerman Lies in His Re-Enactment Video

[TorchTheWitch]

A couple of people asked me to make this reply from another thread an OP, so here it is:

So, nothing much interesting happens until around 6 minutes in where Z says that he couldn't remember the name of the street. This ties in with what he said later about his supposedly getting out of the car to try to get an address rather than getting out of the car to chase Martin which we all can tell from his 911 call (or non-emergency line he called) was the real reason he got out of the car. Right there is where he starts trying to cover up what he was really doing. Now, this guy has lived here for 3 years and there are only 3 streets in the complex. He's also the neighborhood watch dude who has been spending a lot of time cruising around the complex looking for stuff to report to the police. The very idea that he doesn't know the name of the street or can describe where he is and how police can find him is ludicrous.

Next thing is that he tells the operator (911 or non-emergency line) that police can meet him at his car, but he omits that he told the operator later in the call to have police call him when they get there and he'll tell them where he's at. It's pretty clear that the reason he did that was because he was going to continue looking for Martin and would not be waiting for police at his car.

Next thing is that he starts explaining that he gets to the top of the "T" and Martin materializes from nowhere right next to him and asks him if he's got a problem, he says no, and he says that Martin replied "You've got a problem now" and punched him in the face. This is all contrary to Rachel's testimony of what was said and how the two encountered each other. Martin was also still holding his phone and had his headset on and we know this because a) he was talking to Rachel, and b) both his phone and headset were found in the grass not far from where his body lay. Who picks a fist fight with someone while talking on their phone to someone while holding their phone and with their headset still on?

Further, Z is explaining where this took place on the grass a good many feet away from the sidewalk. He says he either fell down or was pushed down, starts saying that Martin then got on top of him then realizes he's not anywhere near the sidewalk where he claims to have Martin climb on top of him and supposedly was pounding his head into the sidewalk and walks a good many feet to another spot where he says it was in that spot where Martin got on top of him and did this supposed head pounding. But Martin's body was much farther down the walkway of the long arm of the "T" and quite a distance from that walkway. How on earth could Martin's body ended up there when we know he was shot directly in the heart, that Z claims he didn't get up and travel any distance on his own and that he just rolled Martin's body off of him. How could Martin's body ended up that far from the sidewalk when even Z claims that all he did was roll Martin off of him? That alone makes it obvious that they were not close enough to the sidewalk for this supposed head pounding on it and never mind the obvious lack of injuries from having one's head repeatedly slammed into concrete.

Now the lies start coming fast and furious... he claims that Martin has him by the head with both hands pounding his head into the concrete and Z claims this is when he starts to scream and Martin lets go of his head and covers his bloody mouth and nose with both hands yet we know from the 911 call from one of the witnesses that the screaming does not stop once it started until the gunshot. How does Z continue to scream with his mouth and nose covered? And let's remember that there was not only not a speck of Z's blood on any portion of Martin's hands but not even a single cell of his DNA when he supposedly covered Z's bloody mouth and nose with both hands. There is also not a speck of Z's blood on Martin's shirt where having his arms and hands beneath his body may have wiped off some of that blood nor was it raining so hard or the grass so wet that it could possibly have removed every speck of Z's blood and DNA from Martin's hands. He is also unable to explain this when going through that 911 call with the police. He has no explanation for how he was able to continuously scream with both his mouth and nose covered.

All this time Z's arms and hands are free. He has no explanation for what he was doing with them while all this was going on. Why does he not try to hit Martin or try to get his hands off his head to stop the pounding or try to pry his hands off his mouth and nose or go for his gun with one of them? We're supposed to believe that while Martin is doing all this to him that he didn't do anything at all with his arms and hands to defend himself??? Ridiculous. We're supposed to believe that he did nothing at all with his arms and hands to try to stop this attack until at the last moment he suddenly remembers he has a gun on him. Baloney.

Then Z says he starts screaming for help but has no explanation how he could do that with Martin covering his mouth and nose with both hands. If Martin let go of his mouth and nose he never says that nor does he say what Martin started doing with them. Either we're supposed to believe that Z started screaming for help with his mouth and nose covered by both of Martin's hands or that Martin removed his hands from his mouth and nose and did nothing else with them... didn't hit him, didn't start pounding his head again, didn't try to strangle him, nothing. And we know from the photos that there was no smeared blood around Z's mouth and nose from having his bloody mouth and nose covered nor any other smeared blood anywhere on him.

Now he says that his jacket started riding up of its own accord. First of all, Z's jacket was unzipped. Had he been lying on his back the two sides of the jacket would have fallen back to the ground exposing the holstered gun. And we know that from testimony from his own defense attorney, O'Mara, that all he had to do to expose his gun holstered in his pants was to thrust that hip forward a bit which made that side of his jacket fall away toward his rear because that's exactly how O'Mara demonstrated how Z showed the officer where his gun was so the officer could take it from him.

Then he said he could feel Martin's hand moving down his side toward the gun, and this is when Z becomes Speedy Gonzales and is able to whip his own hand down there and grab it himself all the while screaming himself while Martin is doing nothing at all with his other arm and hand. Rubbish. The whole time Martin was straddling him doing all this pounding and smothering he would have felt that gun with his thigh that was right on top of it. How did Z get to his own gun in his pants and so quickly either with Martin's leg right on top of it or up higher on Z's chest so that Z's hand couldn't have gotten past Martin's leg to get to it himself? Or are we supposed to believe that Martin straddled him so far down near Z's knees while all this was going on that no portion of his legs or knees could have been in the way? Are we supposed to believe that Martin didn't have any legs??? Or that he had such a "wide stance" straddle that either one of them could have quickly gotten to the gun with their hand??? Didn't happen. And it didn't happen because Z long since already had his gun out in his hand. His first explanation to police was that Martin was fighting with him to get his gun out of his hand.

Now comes some more Hollywood silly movie lines... Z claims that with the jacket riding up all on its own instead of having been flapped back against the ground from being unzipped that Martin sees the gun after already letting his hand travel down Z's side for no reason while the other arm and hand did nothing at all and with no leg in the way of it, reaches for it and says "You're going to die tonight, motherfucker.". Z says he grabs his gun out and shoots Martin at point black range right into his heart and Martin delivers the classic movie line "You got me". Never mind the fact that Martin was probably already dead or nearly so. In Z's first sit down interview with Serino Z tells him that Martin continued to talk after delivering this Hollywood movie line even when Z flipped him over and got on top of him. Didn't happen. Martin was already dead.
https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=999

Then here's a whopper... Z then says that Martin either fell off of him or he pushed him off of him, and gets on top of him and spreads his arms out straight. Huh? How could that possibly be when we know Martin was discovered face down with both arms and hands tucked under his body? He was dead. He couldn't have moved his arms and hands under his own body himself, and every witness who saw him following the shot testified that Martin never moved. Unbelievably, Z also says that at this point when he is on top of Martin holding his arms away from his body that he didn't think he had hit him! How in the world could he NOT have hit him with the bullet at point blank range into his chest??? Totally unbelievable and totally contradicts what we know about how Martin's body was found and that Z can't be so stupid as to believe that he didn't hit him at that range and in that huge chest target. This is the same kind of outrageous claim by shooters as the "the gun just went off" excuse to try to make it appear that they didn't really mean to shoot the person and is even more ridiculous.

Then he says that Martin had been repeatedly punching him in the face. WHAT? Z never said that Martin ever punched him more than the first supposed punch while they were still standing and how he explains they landed on the ground with Martin on top of him. Further, there is zero evidence that Z was repeatedly punched in the face from his photos at the scene and Martin's pristine unbloodied hands. Right here Z totally changes his story adding in these repeated punches to the face that we know from physical evidence of his face and Martin's hands as well as Z's previous story of what happened on this very video a few moments prior that Martin never punched him in the face even once by the time they were on the ground. Z doesn't explain how he missed this supposed punching with his explanation and it shows where he's confusing his stories because his first explanation to police before the recorded ones with Serino. In that first explanation he claimed Martin punched him in the face 35-40 times. We know that all these punches to his face never occurred because his own face pictured at the scene while he was still bloody does not in the least show repeated punches to his face. I guess he forgot to drop that bit with this story though he remembered not to mention all these supposed punches just a few moments before as he was going through his step by step version of events. That's one fucking HUGE ENORMOUS whopper of an inconsistency.

Now he thinks Martin had something in his hands which is why he moved his arms away from his body. First, he never did move his arms away from his body as Martin died nearly instantly and his arms and hands were tucked beneath his body. Second, how on earth could Z believe he had something in his hands and still be able to grab his head and pound it into the ground as well as cover his nose and mouth? We're supposed to believe that Z actually thought this??? This is where Z's story really starts going completely off the rails.

Now the Asian guy with the flashlight shows up and Z notices him. But we already heard testimony from this man as well as others that testified that the guy with the flashlight did not show up until Z was long since standing up off of Martin's body. Z goes into an imaginary scenario of the entire conversation with Asian flashlight man by first saying that he was still sitting on Martin when that guy testified that he first came into contact with Z when Z approached him and the guy noticed his face had blood on it. Another witness testified that they saw Z pacing up and down the walkway several times before the guy showed up which IIRC was his wife.

Then Z goes into this imaginary conversation that happens between him and Asian flashlight man that is not only completely contradictory to that man's testimony but also reverses much of which of them said what in their conversation. First, Z was not on top of Martin when the guy showed up nor was there any conversation about his helping Z hold Martin down. For example, Z says it was himself that asked the guy to call 911 when it was that man's testimony that it was HIMSELF that asked Z if he should call 911 and that Z told him he already did. Asian flashlight man testified that he first encountered Z as Z was walking up to him, he noticed that Z was on his cellphone as he had it to his ear, that he asked Z if he needed to call 911 and that Z told him he already did. Z's saying that all this fictitious conversation with the guy occurred while he was still sitting on Martin and holding him down when we know from that guy and at least one other witness that this is not what happened. We also know from Asian flashlight guy's testimony that what little conversation they had included nothing about helping Z hold Martin down, nor was it Z who asked him to call 911. Z also mentions nothing about asking the guy to call his wife which the guy testified he did and that Z interrupted that call by telling the guy to "just tell her I shot someone." Z totally fabricates the encounter with Asian flashlight guy in both where he was and what he was doing as well as their conversation and which of them said what... all in an effort to try to make himself appear like the good guy by claiming it was himself that wanted the guy to call 911 and omitting the part where he asks the guy to call his wife interrupts the call and tells the guy to "just tell her I shot someone."

Then Z says that the police officer's arrival was when he got up off of Martin's body when that officer testified that he encountered Z and the guy talking together while both were standing some distance from the body. More fabrication from Z.

Z then demonstrates how he just moves his right arm upward exposing his gun and telling the officer that's where his gun was. Z had his jacket unzipped, so it was unzipped while he was on the ground tussling with Martin so there was no riding up of his jacket that took place at that time for Martin to see only at that time that he had a gun. If it was that easy to see that by just that little movement as even O'Mara described in court for Z's gun to be seen than it would have been just as easy for Martin to have seen it when he and Z first encountered each other if Z didn't purposely expose it or draw it at that time. Martin having the gun drawn on him or seeing it at the start of their encounter would have certainly given Martin every reason to believe that this creep who was following him and chasing him through the complex intended on shooting him and therefore, every reason to fight for his life.

Further, in Z's first explanation to police not only does he claim he was repeatedly punched in the face about 35-40 times he also said that Martin was going for the gun in his hand during their struggle on the ground.

And that's just the lies and inconsistencies in this re-enactment. Why on earth the defense wanted it in evidence I have no idea as clearly there are so many lies and inconsistencies by Z in his own words in it.

[Tx4obama]

1. And there are NO bushes. And there are address numbers by the doors...

... back there in the sidewalk area.

[Roland99]

2. K&R!

[Nine]

3. If the prosecution makes its case half as well as you do...

Zimmerman is toast.

Thanks for putting this together!

[Skittles]

4. that coward will never take the stand, so they offer this crap in his place

it is pitiful

[ceonupe]

26. The pros presented the video and entered it into evidence

Literally every lawyer I know who has watched this case even the most pro travon people have said based on the trial so far the state is no where near 2nd degree.

Some have gone so far as to say that if this was not such an emotionally/racially charged case the judge would toss the 2nddegree charge

[Skittles]

35. so convict him of manslaughter and jail the bastard

Last edited Wed Jul 3, 2013, 01:55 AM - Edit history (1)

he sent in motion a chain of events that ended in the death of an innocent person - he's a gun-humping sick vigilante and a messge needs to be sent that this kind of behavior is NOT ACCEPTABLE

[ceonupe]

39. But

Even if he did all of that that's still not even manslaughter.

And because he judge will instruct the jury I think you will see an acquittal unless the pros has something up their sleeve.

Bu this case looks like the evidence just is not there. And it's complicated by the fact their was a fight and travon has no injuries except the fatal gunshot wound.

It was cute to see the pros try to claim that having a gun with a loaded round some how shows intent.

Imagine in this case while being mounted GZ was able to retrieve his gun with one hand but because a round was not loaded and he could not rack the slide he could not shot. In life or death situation u don't want to have to rack the slide you may not have time or ability. It was however a clear attempt to add confusion and emotion in the hopes of finding a gun ignorant juror who may intrest it to mean intent.

[Skittles]

44. WTF

Trayvon was walking down a public street MINDING HIS OWN BUSINESS when he was contronted by a VIGILANTE NUTCASE - it was TRAYVON who fought for his life, NOT ZIMMERMAN - now I am DONE HERE - I am SICK of the gun humpers defending that murdering bastard - SICK OF IT

[ceonupe]

46. Yes travon was

Last edited Wed Jul 3, 2013, 02:00 AM - Edit history (1)

Yes travon was not committing a crime and had a right to be there as he was the guest of a homeowner his father.

But sorry my take is GZ followed him, tracked and confronted him. TM fresh off "the man" suspending him from school and his other recent run ins with authority and his admitted agitation with this creepy fucking Kracker confronted him back. A fight insued and TM being physically stronger and having leverage and striking at least one punch to GZ mounted him and began to or attempted to ground and pound GZ. (Witnessed by nebihor and not yet refuted by pros) GZ shot and killed TM.

I are tragic preventable killing. 2 men that possibly misread each other and a huge summer trial. But I don't see murder 2. I don't even think the pros has proven manslaughter the mistakes they have made even failing to object on many valid points.

It's not a strong case by law. It is very strong emotionally raw. It involves race, profiling, youth, guns, different social classes ect.

[Skittles]

47. "vomiting a crime"

very telling

and Trayvon did NOT misread Zimmy - Trayvon FEARED FOR HIS LIFE and RIGHTFULLY SO

now I am DONE here - I am sick of you vigilante defenders who think paranoia and fear trump the right to walk on a public street MINDING YOUR OWN BUSINESS

[brush]

50. How is a 158 lb teen phsically stronger

than a 185 lb grown man with serious MMA ground and pound training?

Do you know how silly that sounds?

zimmerman was the adult in the situation who you'd expect to exercise adult judgment but instead he made several bad decisions because he didn't want this particular punk to get away. The first bad decision being when he left his truck. No, the first being when he decided to leave the truck with the gun, a huge no-no of neighborhood watch guidelines.

Ol, zimmy is lying through his teeth and today's testimony by the medical examiner and the detective stating that his injuries were very minor and not consistent with having his "head bashed repeatedly against concrete" is the beginning of his lies unraveling.

[Pelican]

58. Ground and pound...

How scary...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

85. Intent to kill isn't a requirement for 2nd Degree Murder

All that needs to be shown is that Zimmerman acted with a callous disregard for human life, a "depraved heart."

You're confusing 2nd Degree Murder with 1st Degree murder.

[Lucinda]

5. Bookmarking to read later. Thanks!

[Duer 157099]

6. Well done.

Since GZ has called 911/police so many times in the past, do we know if there are any recordings of him giving a street name/address in any of those prior calls, to indicate for certain that he knew the neighborhood street names?

[TorchTheWitch]

9. probably, but I don't think it matters

The guy lived there for 3 years, there are only 3 streets, and he likes to spend his time cruising around the complex calling the police about open garage doors, kids playing and potholes... ya know, important stuff like that. That by itself defies belief that he wouldn't know the street names nor be able to tell the police how to get to where he was. I've lived in far more complicated arranged complexes like that with no street names at all and after a few days of living there could have easily explained where I was and how to find me.

The 911 call he made makes it clear as day that he bugged out when Martin started running and leaped out of the car to run after him, lost him and intended to keep searching for him when he changed his mind about having the police meet him at his car and to call him to tell them where he was. Well, if he could tell them where he was and how to find him later when they called him he certainly could have just done it then if he intended to stay at his car. I think even the most biased person on earth would have to concede to this. It's THAT absurd.

[JI7]

11. is that the call where he says the thing about these fucking ##$##@ , they always get away ?

[TorchTheWitch]

13. Yup n/t

[7962]

18. His call said "fucking punks" didnt it? I'm assuming your **&*& is to mean the n-word?

But I could be wrong there.

[JI7]

19. no, i think he said the C word

[uppityperson]

28. "these assholes always get away"

[JI7]

32. oh, now i remember , the "fucking #$#$#" was what he said as he was chasing

trayvon but not directly to the phone. more to himself.

[TorchTheWitch]

59. In all honesty I always thought he said "punks"

"Coons" is a REALLY old word that I seriously doubt Zimmerman would have in his slang vocabulary given his age.

I also think "punks" makes more logical sense. Zimmerman wasn't profiling him JUST because he was black. Trayvon's race certainly had a lot to do with why he profiled him as one of these "assholes" that "always get away". It was a combination of things that included his race and the criteria of what he would have considered a punk. He was also profiling him not JUST as a punk but as one of the people that he knew had been doing one or more robberies in the complex - teenage, male, black, "urban" dressing, etc. Had Trayvon been white but all else applied he might still have thought he was one of those "punks". Had he been older and wearing a preppy sweater and was black he would thought nothing of him. Had he been the same age, race and dressed identically but was female he wouldn't have thought anything of it.

His saying "punks" just makes a lot more sense to me because of the combination of things about Trayvon including his race that made him believe he must of been one of those teen, male, black, "urban" dressing robbers.

Other than that, to me it just sounded more like "punks," and I tried to hear it as "coons" but I just honestly didn't.

[yardwork]

65. I agree. I've thought the same.

[7962]

70. I dont think the C-word would be broadcast!! And why on earth use THAT word?

Now i gotta google it!

[polly7]

71. No, it wasn't 'punks'. nt.

[JI7]

7. have you seen the HAnnity interview ? it looks like there will be a lot more lies that show up

i haven't watched it myself when it originally aired or now during the trial.

[TorchTheWitch]

8. I have no doubt there's plenty more to come

I didn't watch that Hannity interview because I can't stand him. Once I get caught up with watching the trial on YouTube I'll see if I can find it and how much of it I can suffer through.

I really just can't stand those talking head bozos.

[displacedtexan]

10. Excellent!

The prosecution is cleverly introducing these multiple tales told by GZ. But, I'd like to see a timeline for each lie and to whom he told each lie. I hope the prosecution does something like this during summation.

[JI7]

12. yeah, i was kind of getting worried since it seemed like they were just allowing the defense

to do what they want. but if they are doing this so they can later bring up all the lies, contradictions etc i can understand.

[yardwork]

14. The movie lines "You got me" and "You're going to die tonight" are incredible tells.

How anybody can believe a word that Zimmerman says is beyond me.

[ecstatic]

31. don't forget the classic, "What the fuck is your problem, homie?!"

Is that word even used in FL, or in Trayvon's generation?

[ChiciB1]

57. Yeah, So "Make My Day" Dialog!!!

So over contrived!! Nuff said for now, been commenting so much already.

[TorchTheWitch]

60. truthfully, the first time I watched that I laughed

That's how absurd it was.

[nyquil_man]

77. "You got me" is cops-and-robbers crap.

But remember that, within two minutes of first seeing Martin, Zimmerman had already decided that TM was a "fucking punk" who was "on something" and "up to no good." The man does not possess a gift for originality. Nor is he particularly good at profiling.

[pnwmom]

15. Good job TTW. n/t

[Grassy Knoll]

16. The part I found odd.......

zim said after he shot TM, he sat up and said "you got me" or some fucked up shit.

[Iliyah]

17. Not too many black teenage young men

would say "GOSH".

Plus the odds on speaking more than one - two words after being shot in the lungs, as Spock would say is "illogical".

[Th1onein]

22. He shot him in the heart.

[Llewlladdwr]

29. Your lungs are right behind your heart.

[csziggy]

33. The jacketed hollow point bullet entered the heart, fragmented

Fragments were found in the sac around the heart, and fragments tore through the lower part of the right lung. Both lungs collapsed and nearly half the blood (2300 milliliters) in Trayvon's body was found in the pleural cavities.

The shot was level to the body - as if it had been shot at Trayvon with both men standing. Straight through parallel to the ground if they were in standing position.

How did Zimmerman achieve that angle with someone kneeling on him? And hit the guy in the heart with one shot? AND not realize he HAD hit the guy at all?

[Llewlladdwr]

42. Dumb luck?

If Martin were sitting on Zimmerman, leaning forward, it's very possible that it brought their torsos close to parallel.

[Th1onein]

36. LOL! I understand that, but if you are shot in the heart, you stop. Period.

Lungs? Not quite so quickly. It's about the time and the effort that has to go into the saying of, "You got me."

[Llewlladdwr]

43. Death by gun shot is not always instantaneous, even with a heart shot.

A person flush with adrenalin, say from fear and a fight, might very well retain consciousness for a few seconds. There's evidence that a severed head remains conscious for a brief time.

Here's a link to info about decapitation: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1172/does-the-head-remain-briefly-conscious-after-decapitation

(Edited to add link and correct mispellings.)

[Llewlladdwr]

30. But a lot of people might yell out "Oh God, you shot me".

Or words to that effect. Is it that hard to imagine that if you tried to say that with an extra hole in your lung and aspirated blood in your throat that it might sound like "Oh gosh, you got me"?

[brush]

51. Who says "gosh" anymore?

You're kidding, right? White kids don't even say that, certainly not black kids.

zimmy is a lying sack of you know what.

He's got to do better than "Gosh, you got me" for any thinking adult to believe his crapola.

We're in actual reality not some B movie with bad dialogue where they say "you got me" before they keel over.

C'mon! We're not in zimmy's made up cover-his-ass-because-he-just-murdered-an-unarmed-teen scenario.

[Llewlladdwr]

61. I'm not saying Martin said "gosh".

I'm saying that whatever he was trying to say could have sounded like "gosh" due to the fact that he had just suffered severe trauma to his heart and lungs. The air he was attempting to expel from his lungs would have been carrying blood with it which likely rendered anything he may have been trying to say unintelligible. What Zimmerman believes he heard is his brain attempting to make words out of Martin's garbled cries of pain and shock.

[brush]

66. Nah! Martin never said anythig close to

Gosh, you got me. zimmy made that whole bit up to cover his ass.

[yardwork]

87. Yes, it's very hard to imagine that anybody would say anything remotely like that when shot to death

Real life is not like an episode of Gunsmoke.

[HappyMe]

20. k&r

Excellent.

[uponit7771]

21. The Asian guy witnessed blood on Z's face? If so then there's NO DOUBT it should be on TMs hands

..that's the part Z Defenders wont explaine

[Lugnut]

49. If there was blood on his face here's my theory.

The gun kicked when he fired it and hit him in the snoot. I don't know anything about guns but I have fired a .357 pistol. That thing set me back on my heels. If Z's gun was anything comparable it had a mean kick.

[Th1onein]

23. Anyone else notice this about Zimmerman?

He's talking like a LEO. "Secured." "Firearm." He even said that he spread TM's arms out from his body, and got on top of him, like a cop would do with a perp.

[JI7]

24. and from yesterday he kept referring to Trayvon as a "suspect"

[Th1onein]

37. He's a cop wannabe.

Probably thought this would get him into an LE job.

[ceonupe]

27. Take a real firearms saftey and combat pistol course

Take a real firearms saftey and combat pistol course. They are proper terms and in many traing environments they are the terms used.

It is clear you are not apart of the shooting community because if you were you would not be surprised he called the gun a firearm. Or that instead of saying he put his gun up he said he "secured it"

Referring to TM as the suspect shows how he viewed him as by his own admission he viewed him as a suspect/possible criminal. Not saying he should have.

[csziggy]

34. He called Trayvon the "suspect" AFTER he found out Trayvon was dead

AFTER Det. Serino told him that Trayvon was not a criminal.

It says a lot about Zimmerman's attitudes that he could not change his attitude towards a you man who he had killed.

[Th1onein]

38. He wasn't talking about "securing" his weapon. Watch the video.

He was talking about securing a house that was unlocked.

And so WHAT if I am not part of the firearms community. Who gives a shit? This guy, Zimmerman, is talking about the entire situation like he's a cop. And he's not. However, it's pretty obvious he WANTS to be a cop.

[ceonupe]

41. And wanting to be a cop has what to do with murder

And wanting to be a cop has what to do with murder?

Not even the prosecution is going with that any more just non lawyer commentators on cable tv "news" shows.

Even if he had on super cop boxer brifes and a shrine to cops in his apartment and spent 10hrs a week applying for LE jobs across the country.

Beyond a Reasonable doubt is a very high bar. Ask almost any objective defense attorney and they will tell you this case is weak and could easily end in acquittal. Actually most I know belive if it was not as emotionally and racially charged the judge would drop the 2nd degree charge at the conclusion of the pros case.

[brush]

54. After today's testimony

that show Z lied about the "repeated head bashing on concrete" and all the other inconsistencies in zimmy's statements on the video, I think many are changing their minds as they see what a lying sack of you know what he is. There will be no acquital.

Z says he was punched in the face 35-40 times, his head bashed against the sidewalk 20-30 times, had his mouth and nose covered by Martin, and was still able scream for help over and over. Huh? How is that possible if your mouth and nose are covered?

Anybody who had their mouth and nose covered is not going to be able do all that continued wailing we heard on the tape, and anybody punched in the face 35-40 times and having suffered his head being bashed against the sidewalk 20-30 times is going to be a physical, concussed, wreck.

Not ol' zimmy though, according to him, he was able to sustain all that and be calm and detached with nothing but a few scratches after the killing.

[ceonupe]

63. I get it

I get it GZ should have waited for the haymaker to knock him out or break his face then he would have ok in defending himself.

By the way their are many cases of assault and attempted murder brought every day in this country with victims getting similar or less injury than GZ got. So are you saying the prosc. is wrong for bringing those charges because victims did not get beat completely to a pulp?

[yardwork]

64. The haymaker?

[brush]

67. I'm saying Z is lying about all of that

crapola about 35-40 punches to the face, 20-30 head bashes on concrete, and having his nose and mouth smothered, all the while yelling out for help.

It's laughable to even think someone would believe that. How can you yell out with your nose and mouth covered? And as far as haymakers, it wouldn't take 20-30 head bashes on concrete to be a haymaker. Hell that would knocked out Mike Tyson but zimmy just walked away from all that with a few scratches? C'mon!

And what was he doing all this time, just allowing a teen he outweighed by 40 lbs to manhandle him? He was the one with the MMA ground and pound training. At the time of the incident he looked to be in pretty good shape. I just don't believe an adult male would allow himself to be dominated like that by a teen he outweighed. Plus, being a grown mature man, he would be physically stronger.

All that stuff never happened IMHO. NOT BELIEVABLE. Get real. All lies, even the medical examiner testified that his injuries were minor and not consistent with 35-40 punches to the face and 20-30 head bashes on concrete. In other words, he lied and responded with way too much force. Kind of like responding to a wrist slap with sledge hammer blow.

[Th1onein]

68. If you can't get the connection, there's no explaining it to you.

I'm not going to bother.

I'm glad that you think that Z should be acquitted. That tells it all, as far as I'm concerned.

[ceonupe]

69. State did not prove beyond reasonable doubt so far

State did not prove beyond reasonable doubt so far

That is our justice system.

Does not mean GZ is innocent

[Th1onein]

90. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. However, you'd be wrong.

Zimmerman is claiming self-defense. It is an AFFIRMATIVE defense and the burden of proof is NOT on the prosecution; it is on the defense. An affirmative defense is like saying, well, yes, I did it, BUT I had a good reason that excuses me from culpability for what I did. The burden of proof moves to the one who is claiming the affirmative defense at that point.

Zimmerman must prove that he killed Trayvon Martin in self defense. And Zimmerman has not proven that. Not. At. All.

[Llewlladdwr]

45. I'm not sure why this matters.

I use the word secure to refer to locking the doors and windows when I leave home and I am *not* associated with law enforcement. I picked it up while in the military and continued using as a DoD contractor and then government civilian after separation.

[Nine]

25. 'nother kick (nt)

[el scorcho]

40. K&R

[hfojvt]

48. lots of that story does not match the police call that I heard

Last edited Thu Jul 4, 2013, 01:20 AM - Edit history (1)

but I'd like to see more evidence too. You seem to reference things I either have not seen or cannot remember. The position of Trayvon's body relative to the sidewalk. That Zimmerman's jacket was unzipped.

It would also be interesting to see the phone records. Somebody posted a timeline the other day (without sourcing it) and that was interesting, if true. Also, I am curious about Rachel. She said that she heard somebody confront Trayvon and then the line went dead? Is that what she said? What did she do next? Did she try to call him back? Did she call Sanford police to report that she thought her friend was in trouble?

The trouble with this case is that (ha ha) people seem to be on a witch hunt. So you take what he said here and sift it and examine it very closely, not as an objective observer, but as a partisan, somebody who now cares deeply about Trayvon and is looking, who wants to find a reason, to condemn Zimmerman.

I notice that already by the 2nd paragraph you have slipped into story telling. "It's pretty clear that the reason he did that was because he was going to continue looking for Martin and would not be waiting for police at his car."

See, "it is pretty obvious" he did what he did, because he's a witch!! And he needs to be torched as soon as possible. Let the guillotine sing - Justice for Trayvon!! You have created a story which you insist "is pretty obvious" as though that makes it a fact, when it is just speculation. Isn't it just as possible that he said that because a) he didn't know if he would get back to his car before the cops got there, or b) since he wanted Trayvon to be questioned by the cops, then why go back to his car instead of just out to the street and let the cops come to where he was (closer to Trayvon) instead of back-tracking (going away from where he last saw Trayvon and also in the opposite direction.

You also say this "But we already heard testimony from this man as well as others that testified that the guy with ..." which is obviously not true. I have not heard ANY testimony, because I am not following this case like I have nothing else to do with my life. So I have no way of know if what you say about his testimony is accurate or not.

But I do spend some time reading about it and commenting on it.

[TorchTheWitch]

53. not my problem if you haven't seen the testimony

Pretty rich you thinking I'M the one speculating because YOU haven't been paying attention to the evidence. Funny, I thought that people commenting about the court case would have at least have something relevant to say about it because of paying attention to everything that's going on in court.

Obviously, since you have better things you prefer to do with your time instead of watching the trial that's your business, but it also makes you obviously unqualified to speculate about the information that someone has that HAS been paying attention to it. I watch the case at my leisure on YouTube, and I LIKE watching certain trials just like I like reading true crime novels, sewing, furniture refinishing, watching period dramas and a host of other things. I've got the time, and it's my business what I like to do with it.

OBVIOUSLY, this post was written to those people here who HAVE been paying attention, and OBVIOUSLY that ain't you.

[hfojvt]

74. whether I have seen the testimony or not

you still slid into speculative story telling when you claim to read Zimmerman's mind. I don't need to hear testimony to be able to see that.

Also, I simply point out that you are wrong to assume that we all have seen this testimony. Those who have not, like myself, have no way to judge the accuracy of your proof.

The post, however, was also OBVIOUSLY written for those who hated Zimmerman and were already SURE he was guilty before he was even charged with a crime. They might not be watching the testimony either, but they sure will applaud somebody who tells them they were right all along.

[TorchTheWitch]

78. point out where I "read Zimmerman's mind"

And point out where I speculated anything other than to emphasize a point. I'll wait.

No, the post was NOT written for those people that hated Zimmerman and were sure he was guilty, and I'M the one who's the authority on that because I'M the one who fucking wrote it. I wrote it as a reply in another thread and posted it as an OP only because a few people asked that I do so. I almost never write OP's here since I've been here as of 2003 or so.

I myself have never been one of those people that automatically thought he was guilty or that he was racist as my posts can attest to about this case when it first appeared on DU in particular when people were saying that he had no injuries whatsoever because of a grainy video at a distance from him taken at the police station when he first arrived there after the incident. I was one of VERY few people arguing that you couldn't tell from that video whether he had injuries or not especially because from the reports available at that time said he had injuries and that they were cleaned up.

I also was one of VERY few people at that time that didn't believe he said "coons" rather than "punks" nor did I believe and still don't as my more recent posts on the subject attest that this was ever about strictly race and that it was not only race that Zimmerman used to profile Martin, and STILL don't believe this case was every all about race.

I got interested in this trial because I LIKE certain trials particularly those that are more complicated in discovering what happened and who if anyone is at fault. I got interested in this one for the very fact that there WAS controversy about it and so little was known about what actually happened. And one of the things I LIKE about certain trials that I have interest in is connecting the evidence given during trial and the behavior of the attorneys on both sides, their questions, their objections (or lack thereof), the demeanor of the judge, the witnesses and everything else that goes along with any trial.

The biggest reason I did this analysis of the re-enactment is because I was pissed off at the prosecution who has all the way along been dropping the ball on clarifying damn near anything and not objecting when they should be as if they're asleep at the wheel. Observing attorneys on either side so badly doing their job just pisses me off in general. Bernie did a SHITTY job of clarifying all the lies and inconsistencies in this one piece of evidence alone, he's allowed the defense to go on with an entire stream of speculation from witnesses without objecting, and though he may have gotten some things stricken later (a whole fucking DAY later), the jury still heard it, and they're still not going to be able to totally disregard it because they're human. It's his damn JOB to object when he should during the questioning specifically so nobody ever hears that stuff to begin with, and I have to assume he sleeps through most of defense counsels' questioning since he's let them get by with so much.

So you know what you can do with YOUR attempts of mind reading when it comes to MY mind about my OP or anything at all about this trial.

[hfojvt]

82. I already did that in post 48

this "It's pretty clear that the reason he did that was because he was going to continue looking for Martin and would not be waiting for police at his car. "

is speculation and mind reading. You claim to know why Zimmerman changed from having the police meet him at his car to having the police call him when they got there.

As if you can read his mind and you know why he said "have them call me".

When people do that, they can make mistakes. As I made a mistake in thinking it was pretty clear that you were part of the large contingent on DU that pre-judged Zimmerman. Those people have always believed he was guilty, and probably always will believe he is guilty. They are not interested in evidence, they are interested in finding proof that they were right all along.

[TorchTheWitch]

84. no, it is not

It is your own ignorance of this case. It's not speculation and mind reading it's fucking TESTIMONY in COURT as well as documentation corroborated by two of the police officers one of whom was Det. Serino. I wrote the original reply reposted as a OP for those of us that have been paying attention to the court proceedings unlike you who isn't aware of all this stuff as you freely admitted yourself. And what you did is go into a harangue of assumption about me TWICE and even criticized me for how I spent my time as if I should have something better to do than pay attention to it. And I've yet to see any apology from you about YOUR mind reading assumptions about me and my motives and am quite sure that won't be forthcoming.

Now, that's really fucking rich to make ignorant claims not only about what I as someone who you believe was wasting my time paying attention to the court proceedings while you freely admitted that you weren't since apparently you think it's not something to spend one's time one imagining that I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about because I HAVE been paying CLOSE attention and claiming I'm speculating just because YOU aren't aware of this stuff - you who has not only admitted you weren't paying much attention to the case but also insulted me and anyone else that is as though we should be doing something more worthwhile in your mind.

Done with you.

[hfojvt]

89. I said I made a mistake, didn't I?

and how is it not mind-reading to claim to know WHY Zimmerman said "have them call me?" You didn't explain that before you went off on a rant about me.

You know, being a curious sort, I was going to watch Rachel Jeantel's testimony. It is on youtube, but it is SIX hours long. Seriously, I am going to spend six hours watching this testimony? And for what?

So I can argue with people who already have their minds made up and are looking for reasons to be offended and fight rather than discuss? Six hours, and that is only one witness. Forget that. I've still got to work today - on the 4th of July.

I also might note that I just watched two clips of Chris Hayes where a lawyer on his panel said "there are ALWAYS inconsistencies in video testimony.

[brush]

55. Believe me

zimmy was caught in several lies today. The medical examiner and the lead detective both said his injuries were very minor and inconsistent with having his "head bashed repeatedly against concrete."

zimmy also said TM covered his nose and mouth in an attempt to smother him, yet he was still able to do all the continued wailing that was heard on the audio tapes.

C'mom, all cock and bull stories that are beginning to unravel. He's a lying sack of you know what who made up a story to cover his ass after killing an unarmed, innocent teen who had every right to defend himself from an armed wannabe cop out to stop him from being another of the 'fucking assholes" who always get away.

[Nevernose]

72. Originally he told the police that it wasn't him screaming on the tape.

The transcript reads, "That doesn't even sound like me," but the tone of voice on the interview tape is one of clear denial.

[brush]

75. But later his story changed

and he said he was yelling for help.

[Nevernose]

81. So we're in agreement:

Zimmerman lied about what happened that night.

[brush]

88. Yes. Agreed. nt

[hfojvt]

73. you seem to contradict yourself as well

First, you say that Zimmerman's injuries are minor, as if he was NOT attacked by Trayvon, and then you say that Trayvon had every right to attack him.

p.s. One other way that one of these a$$holes would not get away would be if they were questioned by the police after somebody followed them so he could tell the police which way they went after they ran.

[brush]

76. Trayvon did have a right to defend himself

I was stating a fact. Anyone has a right to DEFEND themselves from a stranger stalking them in the night.

I didn't say he had every right to attack zimmerman, I said DEFEND himself.

You seem to enjoy word games. Get it right.

And zimmerman's injuries were minor. But don't take my work, go on YouTube and find the video of both the medical examiner and the lead detective stating that zimmerman's injuries were minor and not consistent with injuries that would come from 20-30 head bashings onto concrete.

Admit it. zimmerman is lying sack of you know what murderer.

[AZ Mike]

52. Wow....

Fantastic breakdown.

[bravenak]

56. This is really good.

We know who did the right thing and who acted improperly. He seems to have given several different versions of the same story. It will never be consistent with the evidence because he's lying.
How can people defend a child killer? With such vigor? I'm saddened by this case and the way people are portraying a kid like he's a vicious criminal.

[RBInMaine]

62. The guy is a cop wannabe who profiled the kid with prejudice and has problems with his story, BUT

this is looking more like a manslaughter case than a 2nd degree murder case. There is no question there are serious inconsistencies in his story and he is recounting it in ways to try and put himself in the best possible light. At the same time, it was dark, adrenaline is flowing, things happen fast, memories are imperfect under such circumstances, etc. The defense can argue all of that.

The prosecution has a very high bar to meet in this. It is going to be tough on 2nd degree murder.

However, if the jury has a manslaughter option which is usually the case because they can often opt for a lesser include offense, this is becoming a pretty strong case with all these inconsistencies in his story if not outright lies, and the fact that it is clear that Zimmerman profiled this kid with prejudice and went looking for him even though the dispatcher told him to stay in his vehicle.

Manslaughter is the negligent and/or reckless killing of another, and I think it looks like it can be shown in the scenario that Zimmerman could not entirely justify his use of deadly force here.

Can the prosecution, all things considered, show that he went into this with the full intent of killing the kid? Gonna be tough. Pretty high bar, and the defense has the easier job of just casting enough doubt.

Gonna be interesting.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

86. If we didn't have his "these assholes always get away" and "fucking punks" comments on tape...

....I'd agree 2nd Degree would be a very tough sell.

But those two undisputed comments offer a snapshot into the man's mind that night. He was an angry man, and all consequences of his actions be damned.

I'm still not convinced it will be a 2nd Degree conviction and we might see a manslaughter conviction as a compromise. Which I would be fine with. Zimmerman doesn't need to necessarily spend life in prison but he does need to do a good amount of time where he can think about his foolish actions that night.

[Politicalboi]

79. And what was GZ's main concern?

It was to get help in making sure the dead kid didn't get up. Not help, I just shot someone. Nope, help me subdue this guy.

[blueknight]

80. i keep going back to

if you are FOLLOWING somebody, STALKING somebody, how can you claim self defense?

[Little Star]

83. Bookmarked for later!