Obama And The Crumbling Of A Liberal Fantasy Hero

[Purveyor]

It has taken a long time, but the world’s fantasies about Barack Obama are finally crumbling. In Europe, once the headquarters of the global cult of Obama, the disillusionment is particularly bitter. Monday’s newspapers were full of savage quotes about the perfidy of the Obama-led US.

Der Spiegel, the German magazine that alleged that America’s National Security Agency has bugged the EU’s offices, thundered that “the NSA’s totalitarian ambition ... affects us all ... A constitutional state cannot allow it. None of us can allow it.” President François Hollande of France has demanded that the alleged spying stop immediately. Le Monde, Mr Hollande’s home-town newspaper, has even suggested that the EU should consider giving political asylum to Edward Snowden, the NSA whistleblower.

But if liberals wanted to compile a list of perfidious acts by the Obama administration, the case of the bugged EU fax machine should probably come low down the list.

More important would be the broken promise to close the Guantánamo detention centre and – above all – the massive expansion of the use of drone strikes to kill suspected terrorists in Pakistan, Yemen and elsewhere, It has gradually dawned on President Obama’s foreign fan club that their erstwhile hero is using methods that would be bitterly denounced if he were a white Republican. As Hakan Altinay, a Turkish academic, complained to me last week: “Obama talks like the president of the American Civil Liberties Union but he acts like Dick Cheney.”

MORE...

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1627b9a4-e234-11e2-87ec-00144feabdc0.html#slide0

[still_one]

1. He tried to close gitmo but are illustrious congress prevented it. As for the Europeans, people in

Glass houses should not throw stones

[TheKentuckian]

44. No, he tried to secure funding to open a new super max on US soil to relocate Gitmo

Got smacked down by Congress and then signed his own handcuffs into law which means he signed off on indefinite detention. Before or about May, 20 2009 he was able to release, transfer, or place those people on trial just as Bush had done on hundreds of occasions but he elected to sign off on a piece of unconstitutional legislation rather than to make waves.

He wanted to close the gulag without really closing it.

[rhett o rick]

178. He failed to close Gitmo. nm

[merrily]

244. He didn't want to close Gitmo. Our bipartisan Congress saved his face.

[merrily]

243. Most of the prisoners cleared for release are Yemeni.

He could have sent them back to Yemen. Instead he issued an Executive Order prohibiting release of prisoners from Gitmo to Yemen.

Personally, I found it very strange that Democrats in Congress contravened the wishes and campaign promise of a relatively newly elected (at the time) and very popular President. And he just caved. I see you took that at face value. I saw it as kabuki.

[CakeGrrl]

2. Woo hoo! It's the 'Obama gets a pass because he's black' angle!

This doesn't sound like the RW at all!

"It has gradually dawned on President Obama’s foreign fan club that their erstwhile hero is using methods that would be bitterly denounced if he were a white Republican."

[nineteen50]

28. The ability to tell

the difference between the truth and a lie has been murdered by blind allegence and his inebriated accomplice political debris.

[Number23]

106. That's deep, man. Really

[chervilant]

159. And their arrogant first cousins,

Hubris and False Patriotism (nasty fellows).

[caseymoz]

57. Yes, but the news in the article is . . .

. . . non-racist left wing publications are expressing just as much antipathy to the US, hatred for the NSA, and disgust with Obama. These seem to be things the left and right in our friendlier countries agree on, whether they add racism to it or not.

And the disillusion with Obama is true. No doubt they had a lot of hope. I mean Europeans gave him a Nobel Peace prize before he did anything but stop another Republican from becoming President.

[Kolesar]

205. Senator Obama worked on antinuclear programs, but you probably don't care

You will post the same misinformation on another thread before the week is done.

[caseymoz]

210. Harder than others who didn't receive the Nobel Prize?

How many bombs did he decommission? What misinformation did I write there? Here's the reason he was given the Nobel Peace Prize from nobelprize.org:

"The Nobel Peace Prize 2009 was awarded to Barack H. Obama 'for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples'."

Where do you see nuclear reduction or antinuclear programs, or anything nuclear in that sentence? Not only that, I don't have a memory of that being brought up at the time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy he did good, whatever it was. I'm happy he does some good as president. But his assassination and surveillance programs suck. And I'm sorry they sully his golden reputation, because murder and mass violation of rights should.

I believe everything I wrote was factually correct. Obama hadn't accomplished anything earthshaking when he was given the prize. If he did, I'm certain the Nobel Commission would have mentioned that specifically.

Now, if I haven't answered your point, maybe I can't tell what point you were making, other than a personal attack.

[bvar22]

223. Well Done, Sir.

+1

[LiberalLovinLug]

227. Obama's worst nightmare was winning the Nobel Peace Prize

You could see it in his body language back then. But what could he do? Of course he had to accept it. But it gave the Tea Party extra ammunition to stoke the Euro-socialist fears and the xenophobic attitudes that fosters.

As well, deep down, Obama knew he was only playing lip service to CHANGE or any of his progressive promises. That the primaries were over, the national elections were over, and he could stop pretending he was some kind of "Liberal Fantasy Hero" and start falling in line with the other Washington political elite and the status quo.

[JaneyVee]

145. Meanwhile, IF he was a white Republican he'd be on Mt.Rushmore by now.

Bin Laden dead, avoided great depression, lowered the deficit, saved GM, passed healthcare, ended Iraq war, etc etc etc.

[merrily]

246. Yep, Bin Laden is dead, all right.

People are still out of work, though the bailout helped Wall Street and the banksters. Lowering the deficit is a Republican dream. He passed a health insurance/hospital/drug company bail out fill. Bush had agreed to a date of withdrawal from Iraq. During the Obama administration, the military tried to extend, but the Iraqis politely declined. We still have quite a few troops there anyway. Meanwhile, he surged in Afghanistan, long after Bush had wound it down, continued many Bush policies, and went even further than Bush on a number of things, etc. etc. etc.

[merrily]

245. Race does not belong in that sentence.

It should have read:


"It has gradually dawned on President Obama’s foreign fan club that their erstwhile hero is using methods that would have been bitterly denounced if he were a Republican."

[Cha]

3. "More important would be the broken promise to close the Guantánamo detension centre.."

that's a false premise. A lie.. spread by idiots on the internet and it made it around the world. no surprise.

[CakeGrrl]

15. You should see the comments on the article.

This is like trolling Fox News/Politico/Newsmax for supporting arguments.

[nineteen50]

49. Just because you vote for him it

dosen't make his wrongs right.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

21. Sure, the whole world just imagined that... but he just promised to do it again, or are we imagining

that to?

[nineteen50]

33. The one world global power elite

is being exposed around the world not just in America.

[Maedhros]

32. Well, he never tried to close the Gitmo prison

He just wanted to move it to the mainland U.S.

[Cha]

46. Stupid Propaganda crap you're regurgitating.

Last edited Tue Jul 2, 2013, 09:22 PM - Edit history (1)

[Maedhros]

84. It's well documented.

Guantanamo inmates to be sent to Illinois prison
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8413230.stm

* Details how the Guantanamo detainees were to be sent to a facility in the continental U.S.

Obama to Use Current Law to Support Detentions (rather than to end the detentions)
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/24/us/politics/24detain.html?hp&_r=0

* Details how Obama intended to use Bush/Cheney rationale to continue indefinite detention of Guantanamo prisoners

Obama Administration to Seek Legal Authority to House Candidates for Indefinite Detention at Thomson Prison
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/12/obama-administration-to-seek-legal-authority-to-house-candidates-for-indefinite-detention-at-thomson-prison/

The maximum security prison will house both Gitmo detainees, in a facility to be run by the Pentagon, as well as Federal inmates, in a separate facility to be run by the Justice Department.

The actual physical location of the Guantanamo Bay prison is not the issue - what matters is that detainees are being held there who have been cleared of wrongdoing by the Federal government. Closing the prison at Guantanamo Bay achieves absolutely nothing of substance if the detainees are simply transported to another prison.

What is important is ending the indefinite detention, and the evidence clearly shows that Obama did not intend to do this.

[Phlem]

236. Dude!

No! Not the facts! It keeps me from achieving nirvana w/PO



Welcome to DU.



-p

[Marr]

4. I'd never considered the DLC/Corporate Democrats' cost to our country in terms of foreign allies.

But it makes sense that such politics would erode the goodwill of our allies over time. We don't even have the good cop/bad cop angle going anymore-- just one unabashedly corporate stooge after another.

[elehhhhna]

128. it's been badcop/worsecop for quite awhile, now

[HappyMe]

5. Kind of sounds like you

are the purveyor of horseshit.

[Purveyor]

6. Odd you would say that considering your tagline. LOL eom

[HappyMe]

8. Okay then.

[sabrina 1]

169. MLK expressed that sentiment. I'm sure he knew all about the silence of his 'friends'

He also said this: Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. ...

That is why we need Whistle Blowers ...

[nineteen50]

36. Kind of sounds like your

blind allegiance comes before your country. Or you are confused about blind allegiance and patriotism.

[HappyMe]

113. I'm not all that patriotic.

I'm certainly no big fan of blind allegiance. I don't have to agree with every damn critical article that's out there either.

[nineteen50]

118. You are a real patriot if you follow your post. Thank you.

[woo me with science]

7. He was a corporate Trojan Horse,

and corporate control in our elections and government is so entrenched now that we are certainly on track for another Red versus Blue charade in 2016.

Thank you, Edward Snowden, for creating the conditions under which we can finally begin to have an honest conversation of what is really happening in this nation, and how corrupted by corporate interests and the Security State our representative government has really become.


We are in a war for our lives. The war is between the 1% elite and the 99%.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023137828

[AnotherMcIntosh]

13. Someone didn't like what you had to say:

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

>He was a corporate Trojan Horse<

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jul 2, 2013, 01:44 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Poster expressing an opinion, which does not meet the criteria for an alert.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: wacko ott conspiracy theory
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: agree with alerter, this is over-the-top.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The alerter should exercise his freedom of speech and respond with his own thoughts instead of whining to a jury.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

I was juror #5.

[MissDeeds]

25. Thank you

I agree with your comments as juror #5.

[woo me with science]

100. Thank you for serving,

and great comment.

[limpyhobbler]

18. Corporate Trojan horse is exactly right.

To be fair Bill Clinton was too.

G.W. Bush was too, with a slightly different spin. He posed as a Christian cowboy populist to get working class votes.

Come to think of it that's kind of what Reagan was selling too.

[merrily]

237. Obama sold quite a bit of that, too.

Probably not enough for the religious right, but way too much for my tastes.

Including more religion is right out of the DLC advice book.

[leveymg]

47. It's pretty sad that to carry out change in America these days you have to commit a major felony.

[merrily]

238. One person's major felony is another person's whistleblowing.

Much as one person's terrorist is often another person's freedom fighter.

[leveymg]

239. I used to dislike such moral relativism, and reject the equivalency of all causes, but there has

been a stark retreat from even trying to hold the moral high ground in this country.

That makes me sad, more than anything else. But, I'm not ready to accept it -- and all that it implies -- yet.

[merrily]

240. At one point, Osama said that he had decided to do something to hurt America

when he saw the blood of children running in the streets of Beirut (thanks to Poppy Bush).

You can say both men were very wrong. On the other hand, Americans, as a nation, saw Osama as a monster without acknowledging that U.S. Middle East activities have, from time to time, been monstrous too. At the same time, Osama saw Bush as a monster and himself only as taking justifiable revenge for the deaths of innocent children.

Is it moral relativity, or point of view (maybe tunnel vision?)? Whatever it is, it goes on all the time because people seem to be shimmed that way..

But, I'm not ready to accept it -- and all that it implies -- yet

.

How much will it take?

[leveymg]

241. Osama or Poppy. I don't accept that choice.

When the alternative appears, I hope I will recognize it and do something about it.

[merrily]

242. ? No one asked you to choose between Osama and Poppy.

[Octafish]

60. Chicago School

The Privilege of the Pritzkers

[woo me with science]

110. +1

Thank you.

[forestpath]

89. Truer words were never spoken.

[Marr]

131. Yep-- and he's provided the best proof yet for the fact that this is a liberal country.

He *ran* as a liberal-- and his scant political career made it hard to check his rhetoric against his voting record. If he'd run on the positions he's supported in office, he would've lost by a landslide.

[woo me with science]

134. Thank you. It amazes me that the argument

that liberals can't get elected is still even *attempted* (see below, and my response in post #133) even in this political climate, when all evidence and reality and recent history scream otherwise.

Just imagine if Elizabeth Warren were to decide to put in a serious run. We would see the magnitude of the perceived threat then, in the PTB's response...

[HughBeaumont]

166. Maybe for Senator, but never for President.

And really, there are only a HANDful of progressives in Washington. The rest pay complete respect to Darwinist Chi-school economics, God, Country, J Edgar Hooverism, the Wealthy and the Banker War Machine, regardless of party.

Having one of us, or several of us, in the upper echelon would mean that the gravy train would be over for the one percent. That's where their paid-for media comes into play . . . marginalize protests, steer attention away from anyone who wants actual change, popularize the candidates that are friendliest to wealth-enhancing, poor-crushing Trapitalism-as-usual.

If anything, the election of Barack Obama proved once and for all that this country is a corporate-puppeted SHAM and the nude old man called Plutocracy is double-flipping us the bird and helicoptering it's shriveled penis at all of us while laughing his ass off.

[leftstreet]

142. Good point

He ran from the left

If he ran on his policies today, he'd never make it

[bvar22]

226. Can you IMAGINE if he had run on:

*Cutting Social Security benefits

*Austerity for the Working Class, but Champagne for the 1%

*Mandate to BUY Health Insurance from For Profit Corporations with NO "Public Option"

*Expanded Secret Drone Assassination Program

*Claiming the power of The President to assassinate ANYONE he "suspects" of ties to whatever he consider "Terrorism" with no due process or oversight

*MORE Free Trade negotiated in secret without representatives of LABOR or Congress present at the "negotiations", fast-tracked to an Up or Down vote with NO ammendments




You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS,[/font]
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[Agony]

146. Yes, "Thank you, Edward Snowden"

", for creating the conditions under which we can finally begin to have an honest conversation of what is really happening in this nation, and how corrupted by corporate interests and the Security State our representative government has really become. "

I just had to echo what you wrote.

Now, can we begin?

Cheers!
Agony

[chimpymustgo]

207. A corporate Trojan Horse. The sooner the 99% realize that, the sooner we can fight for our LIVES.

[Puzzledtraveller]

212. It is a charade

What is worse is that it builds the acceptance of such in the blind worship of our leaders. Be it right or left, blue or red. Buiding on basic human emotions to protect our egos, to never be wrong or even believe we are capable of being wrong ensures we will not question what is happening around us.

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. Three and a half more years

I double over in laughter every time I think about it.

Silly shitheads will have to deal with President Obama for three and half more years!



Hell, he really just started his second term a few months ago!

[Cha]

16. Yeah, the poor little victims will have

some real ODS fomentation at the end of PBO's second term.

[Octafish]

62. Yeah. Like maybe by then the Bush era tax cuts will have been allowed to expire.

I won't bother to ask about ending the wars for power and profit by then, as, really, that would be expecting too much.

[sheshe2]

88. Greenwalds motto...

“My grandfather...taught me that whatever skills you have should be devoted toward undermining the people who are the strongest and most powerful,” Greenwald said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/07/whistleblowers-and-leak-investigations

Based on what I've seen from Greenwald over the years, that statement is a pretty clear reflection of his approach. But I think it also reflects a key problem for too many on the left...an aversion to power. Anyone with power is automatically suspect (ie, for Greenwald they are always liars). And anyone who attacks them is a hero.

http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2013/06/oh-heroes-and-power.html

Cha

[Cha]

154. Yeah, she.. everyone is suspect except Greenwald, Snowden, Assange,

and similar fire breathing liars.

We've got the power! Greenwald is notorious for going after Obama Supporters..

Great background on G from smartypants!

Mahalo, She..

[Cha]

162. I'm wondering if G's dad advised his son to after power with LIES, she?

And, make himself into a self-important nasty arrogant blowhard? Somehow doubt dads would do that to their sons.

[CakeGrrl]

37. Maybe there's hope for impeachment!

Or so sez the pop-up ad in my page.

Don't you know that Snowden's revelations could be the undoing of this most evil, worse-than-Bush superspying regime?

[zeemike]

109. Get real

He now has bi partisan support and is giving the right wingers and the 1% everything they want....there is no chance in hell they will impeach him.
The pop ups are just bullshit to keep the far right happy and them sending in their donation to right wing web sites.

[CakeGrrl]

119. Geez, back to the "Obama is a RW pawn/Manchurian Candidate" theory?

That explains the pathological congressional obstruction throughout his presidency. They just LOOOOVE the guy!

[zeemike]

125. No it is triangulation.

And you don't get it...and that explains why we lose every time when it comes to democratic principles...keep falling for the same game every time...so they keep using it.

[HooptieWagon]

75. Are you laughing at children killed by drones?

or at US citizens being spied on? I'm sorry your life is so joyless you have to double over in laughter at the misery of others.

[alcibiades_mystery]

111. Oh, the melodrama!

Pitiful.

[sibelian]

157. No, it's not melodrama, it's politics.

Presumably you don't have a view on the subject.

[demwing]

203. apparantly you *do* think it funny

I always thought you had more respect.

[sibelian]

85. I don't think that's very helpful.

I think your assumption that 3.5 years of criticism of Obama from the more lefty side of the Democratic party is going to be funny is unwise.

[JoePhilly]

91. The demands for a primary failed.

So this is the kind of stuff we're going to get to enjoy for 3.5 more years.

And then when Hillary wins in 2016 ... its going to continue.

[cantbeserious]

138. Please Universe - Spare Us From The Fate Of A Hillary Presidency

eom

[sibelian]

156. SEXIST!

Might as well get it in now, eh?

[sabrina 1]

229. What I love most about all of this, is the total exposure of what we only suspected before.

I like things out in the open, and that is what we are finally seeing now.

Keep laughing at those Democratic Liberal Shit Heads, but always remember that 'he who laughs last, laughs best'!

We'll check back with you the next time those Democratic Liberal Shit Heads are needed to vote for yet another Third Way Infiltrator into our party.

Knowledge is power, it took a while, and I don't know about you, but this Liberal Shit Head is feeling more powerful now than ever.

We are free now to turn our Democratic Party back into the party it is supposed to be. And no amount of whining to do anything but that, will even be heard. Those days are gone.

[alcibiades_mystery]

230. Forward!

[quinnox]

10. K&R

Cue the charges of libertarianism, Paul-bots, and racism.

[byeya]

11. There's no doubt that it's a class war and Obama is a Rahmulan.

He gives a good speech but he often does the exact opposite of what one would expect from the speech.

[lark]

76. Thus the Trojan Horse conotation

Says he supports one thing then does something diametrically opposite. Appears to be left leaning when campaigning but turns into a centrist repug on policy once he wins and when it comes to war and privacy, goes way right wing.

[truedelphi]

12. The delivery of those ponies we ordered back

November 2008 sure has been side tracked.

But in place of that delivery dawms the hard cold truth of the Corporate-Owned American EgoManiacal Empire. And pretty soon, we may be droning Americans so other nations' don't ahve to (And to keep us safe!)

[Hydra]

14. The fact that the house of cards is falling after this long is nothing short of a miracle

Everyone cut the President too much slack, and he used it to endrun past anything the Bush Admin could have dreamed of.

We're living in interesting times.

[snooper2]

17. somebody didn't get their pony

LOL

[senseandsensibility]

19. Original.

[snooper2]

23. Sometimes you got to stick with the original

+

There are so many libertarian trolls and truthy to power Glenn Beck Alex Jones wannabes here now, I figured maybe they never heard that one before.

So if I may give myself a as well!

[sibelian]

38. Most of the serious opponents of the less savory aspects of the Obama administration

have been here for quite some time and are likely to be for some time to come.

I don't think a comparison between seeking, for example, the closure of Guantanamo to "wanting a pony" acheives much more than indicating a general lack of interest in the left.

I don't think those posting here who are dissatisfied with Obama are libertarian trolls.

[LanternWaste]

80. No more and no less than prefacing an editorial with "cult" and fantasy" achieves much either...

"the closure of Guantanamo to "wanting a pony" achieves..."

No more and no less than prefacing an editorial with "cult" and fantasy" achieves much either...

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, and insert rationalization here.

[sibelian]

105. I think there's more to Obama support than cultism, yes.

Sure I do. But there *is* a strand (only a strand) of Obama support that is primarily personality based.

I don't think anyone wanting Guantanamo closed wants any ponies.

[Tarheel_Dem]

39. Ya got that right! This is officially an Obama opposition research site now.

"Take a look on Democratic Underground

They have the gov't paid trolls out, trying to limit the outrage & rebellion on there.

If that is the reaction of hard core Dems to the news stories on the NSA, I want to stoke up some more of it.

Lots of traffic on DU.

It's the most popular Dem internet site, except for Huffy Po - where everything meaningful gets censored."

http://www.dailypaul.com/288556/clapper-and-feinstein-get-caught-lying-big-time#comment-3103138

[sibelian]

70. The party needs to move to the left.

You can't expect lefties to sit back and support moderates. DU is for all stripes, it's no surprise that the anti-war movement seeks more from Obama than advanced centrism.

[CakeGrrl]

93. "DU is for all stripes"

Tell that to the people posting liberal purity polls and constantly seeking to separate "true" liberals from "neoliberals" and "Third Way" Democrats, and "Centrists", and so on and blah blah blah.

What do you think is the objective there?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

140. Weren't we told by Obama after the 2010 election, "I get it"?

Wasn't the 2010 election supposed to be a "wake-up call"?

What happened?

[sibelian]

155. I suspect he found he genuinely couldn't do as much as he wanted...

... and I also suspect that he wasn't being entirely truthful from the start. I don't think it's either/or. I think it's both.

[JoePhilly]

20. Only 3.5 years of poutrage remain!!

Get yours now while it lasts.

[DevonRex]

31. I've decided

this is a satire site now.

[Cali_Democrat]

65. What...you don't like the conspiracy theories which imply the US government killed Michael Hastings?

The new DU ladies and gentleman.

[DevonRex]

81. If you can't beat 'em join 'em. Obama bombed the MOON!!!!! OMG!!!

Why not?

[JoePhilly]

87. Pretty much ...

My favorite part of this line of poutrage is that to buy into it, you must also buy into the old right wing smear that all Democrats saw Obama as some sort of Savior or Messiah.

And so, given that Obama was the Messiah originally, but is no more, clearly we are witnessing the "crumbling of a liberal fantasy hero".

Its hilarious.

[Zen Democrat]

22. I'm sick of hearing the lie about Obama not keeping his promise on Guantanamo.

He's tried and he's still trying. Check with the Republicans in Congress about this one if you're looking for blame.

As for comparing him to Dick Cheney, that's ludicrous.

[RC]

86. He just wanted to move it, not close it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023151188#post44

[limpyhobbler]

24. What about Red Tie Guy? His enthusiasm is truly contagious...

http://theobamadiary.com/2013/07/02/whos-the-red-tie-guy/

[BOG PERSON]

136. i dont judge people for being diehard fans of obama

you gotta defend your brand

[limpyhobbler]

141. I usually do but there are so many that it doesn't tell me much.

[BOG PERSON]

149. blame it on capital's deliberate fostering of fan culture / brand loyalty

i'm pretty sure that's all there is to it, behind all the well-poisoning and psuedo-legalese - at least w/r/t the posters that arent paid hacks

[ProSense]

26. ACLU Comment on Appointment of Envoy to Close Guantánamo

ACLU Comment on Appointment of Envoy to Close Guantánamo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023036083

Obama First POTUS in History to Publicly Support Divestment Movement
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023144219

[geek tragedy]

27. Those of us who voted for a real human being instead of a super hero

are somewhat less crestfallen, amazingly enough.

[sibelian]

40. I don't think that means very much, does it?

If you're only interested in voting for people who keep things roughly the same it's difficult to see why you voted at all.

You could fall back on the "he's not a Republican" thing, I suppose, but I think politics should allow for positions a little more substantive than "not Republican".

[geek tragedy]

45. No single person--even the President--can move things in the right direction

besides himself.

The wrong person can do a lot more harm than the right person can do good.

Obama was never going to change the way Washington DC works any more than Ned Stark was going to change King's Landing.

[sibelian]

63. So you lay responsibility at the feet of the entire political capital.

I don't think that's an unreasonable position at all, in fact I think it's pivotal. You acknowledge that there is a "right direction" and that Obama isn't making it happen. If the system is not set up to move things in the right direction, and we are removing Obama from the equation for the sake of this sub-thread as expectations of his influence have thus far have possibly been foolish (I will not disagree with that), what would you propose to start moving things in that right direction?

If more needs to be done than supporting Obama, what is it?

Protesting the current direction brings about the appearance of opposing Obama. Supporting Obama at the same time as protesting his policies doesn't make any sense.

[geek tragedy]

66. For one, there is no single direction, because there is no single policy or issue.

Some issues are definitely going in the right direction--GLBT rights, renewable energy, Medicaid expansion.

Others are not.

Support people when they are moving things in the right direction, push back when they're going the wrong way.

The most effective advocates pick discrete issues with concrete goals and push for them.

[sibelian]

71. Presumably you feel that some issues aren't worth tackling, then?

Do you think it's a timing thing?

[geek tragedy]

74. All of them are worth tackling.

But, not everyone can tackle every issue.

[sibelian]

79. OK, thanks for clarifying. nt.

[woo me with science]

96. The record shows aggressive advocacy of a corporate agenda

in every policy area important to the One Percent.

Look again at the list below of Obama's major actions and policy decisions in office. This list does not show the President trying to enact a more liberal agenda and being obstructed. It shows him working aggressively and proactively, over and over again, to install corporatists into his administration and to enact a corporate agenda.

Corporate and bank-cozy appointments, over and over again, including major appointments like:

A serial defender of corrupt bankers for the SEC; the architect of "Kill Lists" and supporter of torture, drone wars, and telecom immunity for the CIA; and a Monsanto VP who has lied and been involved in extremely disturbing claims regarding food safety for the FDA. An Attorney General who has not prosecuted a single large bank but wages war against medical marijuana users and *for* strip searches and warrantless surveillance of Americans. Tim Geithner. And now Penny Pritzker.

Bailouts and settlements for corrupt banks (with personal pressure from Obama to attorneys general to approve them),
Refusal by Obama's DOJ to prosecute even huge, egregious examples of bank fraud (i.e, HSBC)
signing NDAA to allow indefinite detention,
"Kill lists" and claiming of the right to assassinate even American citizens without trial
Expansion of wars into several new countries
A renewed public advocacy for the concept of preemptive war
Drone campaigns in multiple countries with whom we are not at war
Proliferation of military drones in our skies
Federal targeting of Occupy for surveillance and militarized response to peaceful protesters
Fighting all the way to the Supreme Court for warrantless surveillance
Fighting all the way to the Supreme Court for strip searches for any arrestee
Supporting and signing Internet-censoring and privacy-violating measures like ACTA
Support for corporate groping and naked scanning of Americans seeking to travel
A new, massive spy center for warrantless access to Americans' phone calls, emails, and internet use
Support of legal immunity for telecoms/warrantless wiretapping
Support of legislation to legalize massive surveillance of Americans
Militarized police departments, through federal grants
Marijuana users and medical marijuana clinics under assault,
Skyrocketing of the budget for prisons.
Failing to veto a bipartisan vote in Congress to gut more financial regulations.
Passionate speeches and press conferences promoting austerity for Americans
Bush tax cuts extended for billionaires, them much of it made permanent
Support for the payroll tax holiday, tying SS to the general fund
Support for the vicious chained CPI cut in Social Security and benefits for the disabled
Social security, Medicare, and Medicaid offered up as bargaining chips in budget negotiations, with No mention of cutting corporate welfare or the military budget
Advocacy of multiple new free trade agreements, including The Trans-Pacific, otherwise known as "NAFTA on steroids."
Support of drilling, pipelines, and selling off portions of the Gulf of Mexico
Corporate education policy including high stakes corporate testing and closures of public schools
Entrenchment of exorbitant for-profit health insurance companies into healthcare, through mandate
Legal assault on union rights of hundreds of thousands of federal workers
New policies of targeting children and first responders in drone campaigns,
New policies of awarding medals for remote drone attacks,
Appointment of private prison executive to head the US Marshal's office
Massive escalation of federal contracts for private prisons under US Marshall's Office

Chilling Legal Memo From Obama DOJ Justifies Assassination of US Citizens
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101654954

Obama seeks longer PATRIOT Act extension than Republicans (December 2013)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x380450

When it comes to civil liberties, apparently Democrats are just as bad as Republicans.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022101960

NSA's Massive New Spy Center to Track Your Emails, Internet Activity, and Phone Calls
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101620852

Obama Quietly Signs Abusive Spy Bill He Once Vowed to Eliminate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022104861

Obama repeals Magna Carta, asserting powers our forefathers denied to Kings
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101655620

Obama's Memo on Killing Americans Twists 'Imminent Threat' Like Bush
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101654919

Obama no better than Bush when it comes to security vs. civil liberties.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022355307

Obama Admin Seeks Permission TO LIE In Response To FOI Requests - Even To The COURTS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2185303

NDAA on trial: Obama Administration fights ban on indefinite detention of Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101748688

Obama administration complicit with private prison industry: President Obama's IncarcerNation
http://www.nationofchange.org/president-obama-s-incarcernation-1335274655

Obama, Democrats Push to Make Bush Spying Laws Permanent
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022084702

NDAA, signed by Obama, is a direct attack against legitimate protest and dissent
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022064803

NSA Whistleblower: All Americans under constant surveillance, all info. stored, no matter the post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002193487; http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021935289

Bipartisan Congress Disgracefully Approves the FISA Warrantless Spying Bill for Five More Years
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022087323

While Public & Media Focused on 2nd Amendment, 5th Amendment Quietly Dismantled
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022390581

How the Obama administration justifies extrajudicial killing of Americans,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022318187

Judge Says Under Law Executive Branch Can Commit Acts That Sure Do Seem Unconstitutional
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022122464

Obama Justice Dept. says wiretap lawsuit should not proceed
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014337039

NDAA Lawsuit- Hedges v. Obama, The Last Thin Line of Defense
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022357078

Federal authorities step up efforts to license surveillance drones for law enforcement
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022383596

Big Banks and FBI worked together vs Occupy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022095056]

FBI Investigated 'Occupy' As Possible 'Domestic Terrorism' Threat, Internal Documents Show
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022061578

FBI Documents Reveal Secret Nationwide Occupy Monitoring (Updated the OP)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022057064

Public Buses Across Country Quietly Adding Microphones to Record Passenger Conversations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021965291

Street artist behind satirical NYPD 'Drone' posters arrested
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021920967

The Obama DOJ urged the Supreme Court's endorsement of strip searches.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002521527

Obama Administration Fights to Allow Warrantless GPS Tracking
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1074474

Anonymous to FBI: hey, dudes, maybe you could take a break from...investigating activists....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022145621

Half a billion dollars for drones to spy on Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021876414

From Bradley Manning to Aaron Swartz -- The Government's Inhumane Persecution of Brave Truth Tellers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022276941

The sight of Army helicopters and the sound of gunfire...on Houston's south side
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022276742

Kiriakou and Stuxnet: the danger of the still-escalating Obama whistleblower war
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022275570

Can the DEA Hide a Surveillance Camera on Your Property?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022237059

Social Media and the Stasi
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021888029

Homeland Security Wants to More Than Double Its Predator Drone Fleet Inside the US, Despite Safety/Privacy Invasions
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014312823

CIA Behind Bizarre Censorship Incident At Alleged 9/11 Plotters’ Gitmo Trial
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022280285

“I Am Wearing My Conviction As A Badge Of Honor.”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022275128

Meet the Contractors Turning America's Police Into a Paramilitary Force
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12525281

How Secrecy Corrodes Democracy
http://election.democraticunderground.com/101655009

Obama Quietly Issues Ruling Saying It's Legal For The FBI To Break The Law
http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7545687

US Pulls Plug on Iran Cable News (Press TV)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014394770

DHS Watchdog OKs 'Suspicionless' Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022339091

[Phlem]

122. This ^^^^^^^^

-p

[nashville_brook]

130. the consistent pattern suggests this is a matter of policy rather than pragmatics

[woo me with science]

143. +1 I'd say more than suggests.

I'd say it takes some hard, deliberate massaging of in-our-face reality to come to any other conclusion.

We are in a war for our lives. The war is between the 1% elite and the 99%.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023137828

[leftstreet]

144. +1

Thanks for putting all this together

[truedelphi]

153. But "the republcians would have twisted his elbow if he had not done all that." n/t

[chimpymustgo]

209. Please post this as its own OP. The body of evidence is unrefutable.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

216. Rec and bookmarking

[Jamastiene]

208. Too bad that Medicaid Expansion has been made optional.

I live in a state that will NOT be expanding Medicaid, unfortunately.

[Orsino]

132. Supporting Obama makes perfect sense...

...if one is convinced that the only available alternative would be much worse.

However, it's not about Obama, and never was. If we aren't protesting his policies, they are exactly the policies we're working for.

[HiPointDem]

186. +1

[Democracyinkind]

198. Off topic. But you'll have to revise your opinion on Ned Starks effect once...

Fire and Ice is joined together. His principled stand shook the iron throne and will ultimately lead to an era of restoration of Westeros.

[geek tragedy]

200. Fire and Ice have already been joined, as we shall learn. nt

[Democracyinkind]

202. You deserve the "geek" tag in your name...

I agree, but that might be a tad too deep for people not too familiar with the subject.

[geek tragedy]

220. Strikes me as almost gossipy, if we're talking about

the same thing.

[treestar]

52. This ^^^^^

The only ones who have a fallen hero are the ones who tried to create one in the first place. And pathetically, they look for a new one.

[nashville_brook]

129. "somewhat less crestfallen" at what -- do you admit disappointment in NSA spying?

or was your post simply meant to refute the narrative premise of the 'crumbling of a liberal fantasy'?

[geek tragedy]

184. Every President is going to do everything the courts

let him in order to prevent terrorist attacks. That's the institutional and political reality.

Congress did nothing to restrict that power. Shit, they wanted to expand the 2001 AUMF.

[MjolnirTime]

29. This means noting coming from those who hated him from the start.

Like you.

[sibelian]

42. OK, how about me?

I was initially very hopeful, albeit cautiously. Now I'm not at all.

[cali]

50. I was one of his biggest supporters here and yet you falsely accuse

me of hating him from the start. Furthermore, I don't say anything hateful about him now even though I am firmly opposed to more than a few of his policies.

[Recursion]

55. You also post about specific policies

And tend to have substantive threads.

Go forth and do likewise, OP

[geek tragedy]

56. Are you the OP? nt

[nashville_brook]

126. the post in question is directed generically.

at least, that's how I read it.

[MjolnirTime]

233. must have hit a nerve.

[cali]

234. nope. dishonest comments from the likes of you

miss by a mile.

[MjolnirTime]

232. Bullshit. You act like nobody saw any of your posts for the last 5 years.

But I can understand why you don't want people to know.

[nashville_brook]

124. that's actually quite a revealing remark -- shows that you believe criticism=hate

it's a remarkably personal attitude to take into politics.

[Democracyinkind]

199. Europe hated him from the start?

I must be living in a different Europe from the one you're posting about.

[ucrdem]

30. Wishful thinking won't make it so.

Fortunately the world has more sense, and so do US voters, some of them anyway:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023151628

[sheshe2]

115. 5th Rec, thanks for the link, ucrdem

[baronjake]

34. Well, if Obama is a liberal fantasy hero..

who is your liberal real hero?

[Recursion]

53. Anyone out of power who doesn't have to get results in the real world

Come on, it's fun to stomp your feet.

[Douglas Carpenter]

35. never had any illusion that he was a liberal to say nothing of a liberal hero - I just thought he

was a lot better than the alternative -

[nineteen50]

41. Loads of I got your back Obama B's here

Why give a pass to he that has continued the path of your hated enemy?

[sibelian]

48. I suspect policy is now of secondary importance to them.

A lot of people got their brains thoroughly melted over George Bush and their subsequent political analyses pivot on winning elections. Explanations of current political phenomena cannot include narratives that could end up with Democrats losing no matter what the current Demcoratic administration actually does.

I think that's it.

[nineteen50]

54. If a political party is headed down the wrong path

they do not deserve a your vote no matter what their name is..

[SleeplessinSoCal]

51. I have Obama's back.

There's just too much crap coming from the right on a daily basis that effects me personally. Obama has at least kept them angry and frustrated. That's what they all deserve starting with their leader Limbaugh.

Maybe it's because I'm a woman, but the war on women is going full out right now. And Obama is my only real hope for a Supreme Court's protection. Other courts as well. Republicans are making sure there are only conservative judges in the judge pool to make their way up the ladder. That scares me.

There are so many issues that touch us personally. I'm not going to do something rash and cast aside my only protection.

[nineteen50]

59. The right is dropping sharia crap on women what has

Obama done for them besides sweet talk?

[OilemFirchen]

94. If you have to ask...

you are not worthy of a response.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

97. 2 women justices for starters

His other nominees have been blocked. All that he can do for women's rights is see that the hard right judges be balanced by left leaning judges. How do you desert women in our hour of need because he isn't liberal enough?

[nineteen50]

99. So the litmus was female I am

appalled.

[nineteen50]

67. What women have gained

over the last ten years has come from their exemplary and unbelievable hard work. I have nothing but admiration toward their effort if we were all so effective it would be lights out.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

108. when govt becomes literally invasive and disruptive

emotion and fire in the belly are right there. I never felt so emotional at a rally than when our local hospital merged with a catholic hospital. Abortion rights were jetisoned for financial gain.

Maybe if liberals looked out for each other - meaning disgruntled Obama bashing be put aside - the fight would be easier and not so draining. Plus we'd be allies rather than falling into the trap laid by the righteous right.

[nineteen50]

117. When

someone is off base they deserve to be tagged out regardless of which team they are on.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

135. I just see a lot of people acting like Snowden and not thinking

all the way through to what harm may actually be done to themselves, their cause and the country. Maybe I'm just older and have seen dirty politics played for too long.

I do not like what is happening right now. Whether its in Egypt, Syria, Germany, China, or here at home, there's a recklessness going on that I wonder is related to so much denial about facts. Our weather is insane right now. Yet we have to deal with deniers, or as one of Bill Maher's guests said on Friday he was a "proud climate change denier".

Insanity is taking hold and I refuse to go with the flow. I only hope that liberal men and women remain allies through it all.

[nineteen50]

147. Who is not thinking Snowde or Clapper?

knowing you have cancer is frightening, but finding out gives the opportunity to fight back. I think that when we will not allow change it just makes the inevitable change happen more quickly and more violently.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

148. This thread is about Obama as liberal fantasy hero

I'm trying to stay reality based and insist that Sen. Diane Feinstein get the kind of pummeling that Obama is getting. The NSA is under her purview. She needs to be held accountable to act. The MIC is still powerful and we know it controls the media. So why is Obama - who can't legally do anything about this - getting pounded and not the person who can do something - Feinstein? It's an important question that I think we know the answer to.

I was just recalling the fears of election day last November. I came here hoping to find the latest Nate Silver polling numbers as I was terrified of the idea that an Ayn Rand champion like Paul Ryan and A man like Mitt Romney with his tax cuts for the wealthy and disdain for the poor were pounding on the door. DU offered solace then.

Because Obama was re-elected we got the tax hikes on the wealthy that has helped our economy recover somewhat. We aren't at war in Syria. We will hopefully plow ahead and improve on the ACA. We still have rights to abortion in some states. That issue is a judicial one. We have the possibility of a better energy policy going forward.

But we also have a world coming apart at the seams. In many, many countries, governments are either oppressing or toppling or declaring war. I want to have the back of my president after years of feeling abused by Bush. And DU is becoming a depressing place.

[nineteen50]

151. I don't think it has anything to do with DU the

choices directions and lies of this administration should be talked about just as we did with the Bush administration. How things payout are beyond us today, but I no longer feel much difference between the two major parties. Talk is nice but action speaks louder. Hopefully eyes will be opened and we will get someone that will do not just talk.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

167. I just listed several huge differences. And my concerns are those of this president

If they aren't yours is it that our priorities are very different? The Bush Tax Cuts were a disaster along with so many other "accomplishments" of the Bush Administration. Obama finally accomplished ending them even after the House was disastrously lost. Had Obama lost to Romney, the tax cuts would have not only been extended, but expanded to all but the working class. The Stimulus package has done so much more good than we ever read or hear about.

The Missing Stimulus
Why isn’t anyone in Charlotte talking about one of Obama’s biggest accomplishments?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/09/dnc_the_stimulus_was_one_of_barack_obama_s_big_accomplishments_but_no_one_in_charlotte_is_talking_about_it_.html

Obama, with Speaker Pelosi, and our filibuster proof Senate accomplished a tremendous amount - even with a thriving K Street.

Public Laws passed by the 111th Congress

http://www.congress-summary.com/A-111th-Congress/Laws_Passed_111th_Congress_Seq.html

National Security is always complicated by changing players around the world. Benjamin Netanyahu was elected in March 2009, were that hawk not in office, how different would our Middle East policy be today? Ahmadinejad was sworn in for a 2nd term in the summer of 2009. Had Bush not put Iran in the "Axis of Evil", who knows how that would have played out. The Arab Spring was either to be stifled as conservatives love their dictators, or given a chance to know democracy - as we preached at the world in 2001-2006 before seeing how disastrously Neoconservatives spent our treasure, wasted offered good will from around the world in 2001, all while turning us into monsters in Iraq.

As for social issues, the two parties aren't even close.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Democrat_vs_Republican

Seems sort of silly to post all this, but you never know who just doesn't know.

[nineteen50]

175. What is the number one expenditure

and why is Peace still considered a foul four letter word? Why do we spend more destroying the world than building and repairing America. Why haven't bankers gone to jail. Why are we continuing the stupid war on drugs and why are we force feeding prisoners at Guantanamo. Prison population is a shame and the message it sends is not listened to. He still helps the so-called clean coal and pushes fracking and the Pacific trade agreement to help his corporate friends. He wants to cut Social Security by chained CPI and continues to bailout Wall Street and the bankers. He is telling the world we are so exceptional that we can drone assassinate and spy however, whenever and whoever we want including Americans. The tax breaks still favor the corporations and 1%ers and the cuts are being made up by payroll taxes on the middle class. I haven't even started..................... America is no longer for and by the people it is for and by the corporate elite and the minimum wage he proposed is a joke. Is he better than what we might have had who knows that didn't happen. We need to talk to what is not what might have been. I cannot ignore what is just because of who is in the whitehouse.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

180. Those are the big issues, but there are equally important personal and economic issues.

That was the point I was making. The social issues that the GOP has made a B line for. I thought it was to placate their religious base, but now I think there is desperation and real cause for alarm over our basic rights and the definition of America. It is under full on attack by the right. They'll have all the guns and ammo, no rights for women, or gays, or any person who isn't white or a "Clarence Thomas".

As for concerns about peace in our time and Gitmo and Wall Street bankers, it's amazing how many Americans are fine with all of it. A majority in fact. So we pick our battles.

[nineteen50]

206. If America awakens

the extreme right will be marginalized

[Doctor_J]

168. Obama is not a liberal

So criticism of him is not a case of liberals not looking out for each other

[sibelian]

69. I don't think the left wing criticising Obama is going to mean the Democrats will lose

I find it very difficult to believe that even the hardest line lefties here, disappointed with what is perceived as Obama's slightly tepid tenure, are going to start voting Republican.

I think the next move for acitivists is to focus on a generalised push within the party to the left.

[Doctor_J]

172. this is what the thick-headed apologists can't seem to grasp

Everyone on du will vote democratic. But a lot of independents who thought change was coming will not. This president has convinced them that the parties are the same.

[sibelian]

183. Yes. They consider themselves strategists...

Accusing DU members of racism and libertaaaaaaaaaaaaarianism. ooooo

It kind of shows up how shlubby it all is.

[geek tragedy]

58. Because your characterization of "continued the path of your hated enemy"

is a load of shit?

Obama is not Bush, and moreover Bush was a president with really shitty policies, not a "hated enemy"--said status is reserved for people like Tojo and bin Laden.

[nineteen50]

61. Your opinion

but think what has continued and what has been amplified.

[geek tragedy]

64. Bush's program for ending tax cuts for millionaires, drawing down our military presence in Iraq,

promoting renewable energy and taking action on climate change, expanding health care accessibility and Medicaid to millions, increasing regulations on health insurance companies, increasing regulation on Wall Street, and appointing pro-choice/GLBT rights judges to the federal judiciary including the Supreme Court? Oh wait.

That stuff may not matter to you, but to a lot of us liberals it does matter.

[nineteen50]

82. Tell me where you want me to send you a response

there is just too much to post here.

[nineteen50]

92. White House Delaying Key Obamacare Provision For A Year

[Waiting For Everyman]

43. I'm kind of shocked that this is in the Financial Times.

It's not exactly a conspiracy site. This looks like a real problem to me.

(And I'm not happy to be saying that -- I wish POTUS were on the right side of this issue.)

[ucrdem]

77. Conservative UK paper bashes Obama, what's the world coming to?

[Waiting For Everyman]

83. Maybe that's all it is.

Maybe not.

[ucrdem]

90. This is the island serving up Assange and Greenwald.

I think I'll look elsewhere for advice on liberal fantasies heroes.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

218. Easy to miss that since our conservatives aren't as clever at hiding it.

[warrprayer]

68. you never loved him n/t

[sibelian]

73. I certainly didn't. I thought he was a damn good bet.

... and the things I thought he probably would come through on he's pretty much delivered.

[IrishAyes]

72. I'll forgo a step-by-step rebuttal

Since it would be wasted effort on this crowd. Just know I stand here thumbing my liberal nose at efforts to besmirch the best president we've ever had. Neither will I answer any replies objecting to my post for the same reason. You folks know what you're doing - the teabagger's work from the other side. I say a pox on both houses.

[CakeGrrl]

98. Good plan.

Better to let the situation play out, and let reality take hold as world leaders with critical thinking skills take measure of the situation and effectively force Snowden back to the states, where he'll be tried as the data stealer he is, not romantically persecuted and martyred as the Greenwald programming has convinced some he will be.

[upaloopa]

107. The best President we've ever had? that's

a stretch.
Are you kidding?

[indepat]

78. The veneer has all worn off and what the veneer had covered has been lain

bare.

[sibelian]

95. I get that he had to do the whole sexy graphics thing.

I have to say that to me it was clear at the time that there was nothing more to it than sexy graphics. Tony Blair did exactly the same kind of thing in my country. But if he couldn't see that the American left runs on hardline liberal activism and he needed something that would include them...well. He's sacrificed his queen for nothing.

If you spend your whole political life playing both ends against the middle you run the risk that one day the ends will meet.

I think he's done well. Much of great importance has been acheived, in particular his work on healthcare, which can be capitalised on and expanded on by future Democrats.

But its becoming increasingly clear that he didn't appreciate the intensity with which some on the left despised the worst excesses of the Bush regime.

[Drunken Irishman]

101. Liberals can't have a hero because liberals don't get elected...

At least the liberals who are acceptable to an ideological base out of the mainstream.

You know, one of the biggest arguments liberals peddle, and have been peddling since DU was established, is that only real Democrats can win. We hear it all the time - if you have a Republican and a Republican-lite, the voters will vote for the real thing every single time.

Yet you keep telling me, over and over, something I've heard since 2009, that Obama is just Republican-lite (Clinton too!) and yet ... who are the only two Democratic presidents to win reelection since Roosevelt?

Where are your liberal heroes?

If you have to go all the way back to JFK or FDR to find a liberal hero president, there is a reason for that! It's not Obama's fault Humphrey lost to Nixon. It's not Obama's fault George McGovern got his ass kicked in '72. It's not Obama's fault Jimmy Carter lost reelection in '80. It's not Obama's fault Mondale got his clock cleaned by Reagan in '84 and it's certainly not Obama's fault Dukakis, Gore and Kerry lost their elections.

So, let's stop acting like there is an abundance of liberals dominating national politics and Obama somehow undercuts that because he's not as good as you had hoped. The fact remains is that liberalism has largely continued to fail in the eyes of many Americans because the ideology has been corrupted by uncompromising fools who would rather nominate Kucinich and lose badly than win with Obama.

That's why your ideology sucks. It sucks because it moved nowhere between the end of the 60s and the beginning of the 90s. That's a thirty-year period where you accomplished shit. You accomplished shit because you overestimated your power and didn't make the changes needed bring your ideology back into relevance.

Bill Clinton won because he ran as the anti-liberal. Had he run a left-wing campaign, like so many of you pine for from your presidential candidates, H.W. Bush would have won reelection and the Democratic Party would have been stomped into irrelevance nationally. But Clinton had to run as a moderate because past liberal candidates got ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE on the national scene.

The true fantasy is not that Obama isn't a liberal - it's that liberals actually believe they can do better than Obama. Guess what? You can't. You can't because being president is more than just about wide-eyed ideological optimism. Even Kennedy ordered the assassination of, and coup against, Ngo Dinh Diem in South Vietnam. Had DU been around back then, I'm sure most of you would've been outraged at your supposed liberal leader.

How many of you would've been outraged over the liberal FDR throwing legal American citizens into internment camps? You talk about Obama's failure to close Guantanamo Bay? Imagine if he had ordered one opened in the continental U.S. and then forced American born Muslims into it! He would've been impeached and completely tarnished his legacy for the remainder of existence. Yet the same people who attack Obama for civil liberties and being a right-wing warmonger also sometimes sport FDR avatars. Ironic, don't you think?

But that's the complications of being president. It's not black and white - it never is. No president, liberal, moderate or conservative, has ever adhered solely to their ideological grounds. It can't be done. Kennedy was far more tepid on civil rights than many in his own party - but that was solely because of the politics of it. FDR promised to end lynchings as president and then dropped the issue when he was elected because he didn't want to alienate southern Democratic support. Imagine Obama coming into office promising to support gay rights and then doing absolutely NOTHING on the issue because he was too fearful of alienating certain groups - I mean, no asking for the repeal of DADT and DOMA, no signing hate crimes legislation or providing benefits to same-sex spouses ... nothing. It would literally be like that - taking a crucial point of his campaign and essentially dropping the issue once he became president because he didn't want to offend those in his party and cut off crucial support.

Even the liberal heroes would not be considered heroes if DU existed back then because the President often makes tough decisions that are not ideologically pure enough for the base. Some wanted the New Deal to go further than it did - which led to the rise of guys like Huey Long. It was Long, in fact, who called the New Deal corporatist. Imagine that! Liberals unsatisfied with a Democratic president's economic policies - calling them too corporate friendly! LOL

Spooky ... right?

The bottom line is that liberals can't have heroes because pragmatism isn't part of the ideology and most every leader - from FDR to Kennedy to even Elizabeth Warren (who has been unbending in her support of the fascist Obama, mind you) - has to make a tough decision that alienates the idealistic. You know, whether it's FDR cutting back spending at the start of his second term because he feared too much debt (which plunged the economy back into recession), Kennedy upping involvement in Vietnam or LBJ taking us fully into her jungles.

The difference, of course, is that there was no internet back then. We have the luxury of hindsight and time with those leaders - our image of what they are is compounded by what they did overall. But I guarantee you had DU existed in the 30s and 40s or the 60s or 70s, you all would have been just as down on FDR and JFK and LBJ and Carter as you are Obama - four of them who are often praised as being more progressive and liberal than the current president. Maybe, in some realms, they were - but in others? Carter constantly butted heads with the more liberal members of his party - namely Ted Kennedy - and opposed increased federal funding for abortions. He was also the first president that put the U.S. on the long road toward deregulation.

Obama is the first Democratic president of the true internet age (internet use under Clinton the 90s was spotty and certainly communities not nearly as large as today) - and that also means he's the most criticized. Worse, everything he does is instant. Every reaction gets a remark and that wasn't always the case.

I mentioned the Kennedy assassination of Ngo Dinh Diem. How do you think that would have played out today? I'm guessing it would've been much worse, much more pronounced than it was back in '63. Hell, how many Americans actually heard of the assassination back then? Was it even a top story? Did people question the U.S.'s motives behind it? Probably not at the level they would today.

You know, it's ironic that Snowden criticizes Obama's human rights violations and suggests America was better at this in the past. I guarantee you, though, had Snowden leaked secrets under past administrations, especially if the U.S. at war, it's likely no one ever hears his name and fully understands what he did. Why? Because the government would have killed him. Anyone who doesn't believe that is fooling themselves. They would have assassinated him, or imprisoned him for life and no one would have ever heard his story - even if he bolted the country prior to the leaking.

Just food for thought. Politics isn't for the idealistic. It's too nasty for that. No president should be blinded by their idealism or they won't accomplish anything. As they say, you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet. Well politics isn't much different.

[Cleita]

102. Bingo!

[sibelian]

114. Your entire post rests on the premise that those criticising Obama don't support him.

I cannot understand why.

You're absolutely right, I would have criticised ALL of the presidents you mention undertaking all of the illiberal activities you mention, for one reason - they are the wrong thing to do. And, if I had had the opportunity to vote for them, I would have voted for them anyway.

You don't appear to have grasped that the political movement of liberalism isn't a football team.

We don't make the laws. That's THEIR job. They will not make laws that are of value to us unless we tell them what we think.

The endless cry of "pragmatism" is a chimera, it raises it's head every time anyone on the left says anything. This phrase "ideologically pure" exists only to excuse having no ideology in particular, or, worse, flexible ideology that shifts with the wind and means nothing but absorbs energy, focus and attention.

I'm gay. Clinton kinda helped. You think I'm going to kiss him? On LGBT issues, Obama's done really well. You think I want spied on?

Placing pragmatism over ideology results in Tony Blair. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[Drunken Irishman]

123. How many people come at the argument from your perspective?

It's not just about saying, "hey I disagree with him on this ... and I'm disappointed". It's entirely about the 'Obama cult' or 'disillusionment' and calling him a Republican or a Trojan horse - do you think those comments come from people who support Obama? I don't think so.

[Harmony Blue]

137. The problem is that there is too much

to disagree with Obama. We are not talking about a few things here and there which you try to portray it as. Drones used to violate sovereign nations, spying on all citizens, punting a key part of Obamacare to 2015, secret trade deals, etc. Wake up and smell the roses it isn't just a few disagreements it is a chasm separating WE THE PEOPLE and the DELEGATES (we give them power in our stead) to represent us. Obama is not representing DEMOCRATIC IDEALS. I am not talking about liberal or progressive IDEALS. Fundamental ideals that the Democratic party has stood for 50+ years Obama administration has chosen to completely abandon.

[sibelian]

139. Why don't you ask them which party they plan on voting for at the next election? nt

[nevergiveup]

116. Thank you Drunken Irishman

You nailed it !

[sheshe2]

127. +1000!

And that Drunken Irishman should be an OP!

Thank you.

[woo me with science]

133. Not this nonsense again.

The canard about traditional Democrats' being too out of the mainstream for the electorate?

How absurd.

Every single poll this year showed that the electorate was far more on the page of traditional Democrats than the corporate candidates we were offered. Across party lines, voters favored protecting SS and Medicare and curbing military spending.

And the proof of the lie is that candidates pivot LEFTWARD every single election season to win voters. They lie and say that they will support a public option, or protect Social Security, because they know that is what voters want to hear. But as soon as the election is over, it's back to the business of the one percent.

That is what happens when corporations buy elections. And posts like the one you just made are what happens when corporations buy the media.

[sibelian]

152. You'll notice that the post is highly repetitive

making the same point over and over again with slightly different examples, substituting volume for meaning to convey high emotional charge. "Pragmatism" is as mythologised as the ideology the poster disavows.

I have never understood this process in American politics. In the UK this kind of triangulation is usually rapidly dissolved by critique, but mythologised pragmatism seems to attract actual emotional investment in the US. I think it's bizarre.

[Drunken Irishman]

185. So, who's the liberal hero leading the UK today?

David Cameron?



Not a great example considering the UK government hasn't been ruled by a true liberal since, what, James Callaghan in the 70s? I'd take Bill Clinton and Barack Obama over Tony Blair and Gordon Brown and I'd certainly taken 'em both over David Cameron and Margaret Thatcher.

But wasn't it Tony Blair who brought the Labor Party out of the wilderness by embracing 'Third Way' politics?

There is no pragmatism in the UK, eh? Well maybe that's why they keep electing conservatives.

[sibelian]

189. Oh, there's plenty of pragmatism in the UK.

It's just that it doesn't fool anybody. It's quite clear over here that pragmatism is the result of ideology, not its replacement.

[Drunken Irishman]

196. So, what's your point?

You want the U.S. to be more like the UK? How has not fooling anyone actually helped the UK in the last 30 years? Because from what I can tell - you have just as much political bullshit as America. Your people happily, and readily, elect asshole reactionists and haven't produced as liberal of a leader as Barack Obama in my lifetime ... and maybe yours (depending on how old you are).

Nothin' fools you guys and yet you act as if you've got everything figured out. Except when you look at the list of prime ministers, you either have a bunch of lapdogs to American presidents (Thatcher to Reagan, Blair to Clinton & Bush) or narrow-minded individuals who have done nothing to advance liberalism or progressive thought in a region that is supposedly more enlightened than the United States.

You said that the UK doesn't have triangulation - in a response in a thread about Obama not being the liberal hero so many had hoped for. Okay, fair enough ... but if you're going to inject the UK into this, show me their liberal hero - specifically a prime minister. You can't because they don't exist. The closest you came to that was Tony Blair and even he sold out to Bush and the Americans on Iraq. Thatcher was just Reagan in a dress. Brown was too insignificant to have any lasting legacy and Cameron is his own often incompetent enigma.

[GeorgeGist]

224. God ...

you had me convinced that Obama wasn't a liberal. And then ...

[Drunken Irishman]

182. What?

Who said traditional Democrats were out of the mainstream? I certainly didn't. And I got news for you - you don't get to decide who is and isn't a mainstream Democrat. I think Barack Obama is certainly the mainstream of this party and you know how I know that? Because he receives fairly high approval ratings from Democrats, won two Democratic primaries and won two elections with monumental Democratic support. You make the claim he isn't liberal enough for your liking, but let's be real - that wasn't your argument here.

If your argument is that someone more liberal than Obama and Clinton could win a presidential election, by all means, produce the evidence. Who is this figure and why haven't they won? Why didn't we have a President Mondale or a President Dukakis? I guarantee you it's not because they were too moderate or too conservative. In fact, when was the last time a perceived liberal Democrat won the White House? LBJ? Hell, by much of the logic of DU, he doesn't count because his foreign policy was extremely authoritative. The same could be said about Kennedy and Roosevelt too. They weren't doves and they certainly weren't pacifists. They were aggressive interventionists and we give 'em a pass why?

You say the candidates pivot leftward every election? That's not true. Bill Clinton certainly didn't run a campaign from the left in 1992. He spoke of reforming welfare, supporting the death penalty, he played up his fiscal conservatism and spoke of how tough on crime he was. Four years later, he played up that welfare reform, signing NAFTA, signing DOMA and adding more cops to the street than any president. That was far from being a liberal campaign and he certainly didn't pivot to the left once the general election came around.

The fact remains is that liberalism has no legs to stand on because they throw their best bets under the bus every single time. I recall Al Gore wasn't liberal enough in 2000 for a great deal of you people. That type of logic explains why you fail every single time. It's why there hasn't been a supposed liberal president, in your eyes, since JFK or LBJ and even they weren't as liberal as many of you made 'em.

So, stop blaming people like Clinton and Obama for your ideology not getting it done in presidential politics. You don't like Obama and you don't like his brand of Democratic politics - go nominate someone else. Go nominate Alan Grayson and see where that gets you nationally. But until you can prove to me that a flaming liberal will win a general election, I will not buy any of the shit you're trying to sell because I've seen it play out all too often in the past. Well it didn't work in the 70s and 80s and it ain't gonna work now.

[leftstreet]

158. Obama got elected campaigning as a neo-FDR

He ran a VERY 'idealistic' campaign, not a 'pragmatic' one

[sibelian]

161. I don't think that point's lost on him.

But there is clearly a deep need to accept the leadership on it's terms.

[Drunken Irishman]

188. What terms?

Since you appear to know oh so much about me, please do tell me what needs I need to accept.

[sibelian]

190. Your post further upthread speaks for itself.

It requires no further embellishment from me.

[Drunken Irishman]

195. Just spit it out...

You've been vague enough. Either reply with substance and stop tap dancing around or just pass on talking to me because I'm not here to play these little games with posters who think they're being cute.

[Drunken Irishman]

187. I wonder if you paid attention at all in 2008...

There was idealism, to be sure, as every candidate has to be idealistic to a point. But the entire campaign was built around pragmatism and working along side the Republicans to help fix this country. I mean, the whole backbone of his campaign was about being above petty, divisive party politics.

Remember the line, "there is not a liberal America or a conservative America"? That is not idealism - it's absolutely pragmatism by suggesting we can use practical approaches to fixing our problems - a balance, if you will.

Well that's pretty much what he's tried to do as president.

[treestar]

163. Awesome post !

[sagat]

194. Nailed it.

Bump for visibility.

[OilemFirchen]

103. In this excerpt alone...

Last edited Tue Jul 2, 2013, 11:51 PM - Edit history (1)

the accusation of perfidy is made twice.

Definition of PERFIDY

1: the quality or state of being faithless or disloyal : treachery
2: an act or an instance of disloyalty

...

Related Words
adultery; betrayal, double-cross, double-dealing, duplicity, sellout, treachery, treason; deceit, deception, lying

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/perfidy

It's all well and good to criticize, but the semantics bely an animosity that reveals much about the writer, and nothing about the subject.

[LuvLoogie]

104. Oh Gawd....

[Number23]

112. lol This article is really quite sympathetic to the President. Not that the rec crew will notice

Subtitle: The most vociferous critics expected far more than a mere mortal could deliver

Couldn't agree more. Those of us who knew the man wasn't Jesus/Superman/or a socialist pretty much knew what we were getting and are moderately happy for the most part.

I'm put off by the "would be denounced if he were a white Republican" bit because that's needless BS. But humorously, the article actually comes across as incredibly sympathetic to the president.

Yet the US president has had to balance a variety of pressures – including the continuing existence of a terrorist threat and the entrenched power of the intelligence world.

Mr Obama was living in a real universe, full of hard choices. It was his overheated critics who lived in a fantasy world.

Too bad some of the man's biggest critics here won't actually read the piece. They could learn something.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

120. Why would anyone suspect a self-described centrist politician of being a liberal?

[kenny blankenship]

165. Self-described Republican, actually. But he waited a prudent interval before outing himself

In case some chump is about to get an itchy alert finger, I am referring to a DIRECT QUOTE of President Obama's:
http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Politics/obama-considered-moderate-republican-1980s/story?id=17973080
I've finally come to understand "centrism" doesn't mean splitting some difference between 2 camps, it actually means this:
Liberal Democrat words, Conservative Republican deeds.

[RBInMaine]

201. Totally hyperbolic hype from the TeaLeft. Nonsense.

[sadbear]

121. We did A LOT better than bush in '08, we can do A LOT better than Obama in '16.

And sorry, Hillary is not the answer.

[Stinky The Clown]

150. You can't blame Obama. He never had the votes.™

[Douglas Carpenter]

160. “Obama talks like the president of the American Civil Liberties Union but he acts like Dick Cheney.”

When it comes to some but not all of his actual real live polices - as opposed to theoretical positions - there is a lot of truth to that statement. However, I never personally had a liberal hero fantasy about Barack Obama. I knew for a moral certainty and beyond a reasonable doubt that he would perform on the international stage like any other major mainstream Democratic Party contender since the landslide defeat of George McGovern in 1972 followed by the reelection defeat of Jimmy Carter in 1980. Recognizing that being labeled as being "weak on defense" was considered a political loser - he would embrace "pragmatic imperialism." Not only does it sell better to a public reared on the dogma of "peace through strength" - rather than challenging institutional power - it supports it and assures the very powerful forces that have long dominated the national security and foreign policy discussion that this is someone they can rely on to serve their interest. Avoiding direct military conflict favored by some - the pragmatic imperialist such as Clinton or Obama would seek to carry out the same imperial policies exemplified by Ronald Reagan or even to some extent the new generation of post-Reagan Neoconservatives - but without so many boots on the ground or such bellicose language. Let's face reality though. Hillary would have done more or less the same and will do more or less the same should she become President. ANY mainstream Democratic Party figure who is acceptable to the mainstream media and the mainstream establishment will do more or less the same. To change that we would have to completely change the Democratic Party such as did actually happen for one bright shining moment back in 1972 - but this time we would have to hold it together and still manage to actually win.

[kenny blankenship]

179. Liberal talk, rightwing action

Centrism finally makes sense. The deployment of the word "center" encourages you to visualize an even handed, equal division of left and right energies. But in fact there's nothing inherently symmetical or evenhanded about centrism in practice. Towards the left there is lip service. Towards the right, there is the real service. The left is taken in, the right is paid off: and the center prospers.

[felix_numinous]

164. In a respectful relationship you tell the truth

and you remain authentic. You don't ignore elephants in the room and enable them to ruin your trust and your relationship. If so your relationship is based on lies and denial.

When people are criticized for discussing the hard issues that originated long before this administration, and how these issues have not been curtailed but enabled to continue-- it is like being asked not to talk about the elephant in the room. It is dysfunctional not to speak authentically, to only stick to 'soft' issues that will smooth over the situation.

The surveillance issue is being made into a personality contest, but if it is that then it has to be authentic. We the American people voted for someone to halt the Policies of Bush, and we have seen the opposite done. Then we were dismissed as professional left what ever that meant. So this relationship has not been honest.

I can understand if the powers that be are so powerful that representatives are being psi oped into compliance or blackmailed-- I actually suspect this. But to EXPECT people not to discuss the creeping police state is to enable further social unrest to happen!! Discussion helps people plan a sane response, while repression enables explosive human behavior.

[woo me with science]

174. Marvelous post.

Thank you.

[Enthusiast]

215. I appreciate your post.

Thank you.

[Doctor_J]

170. it's strange that an article in a European paper about disappointment in

Europe over Obama's republican policies has turned into a"bash liberal Americans" thread. Like most threads lately.

[sibelian]

171. We can't be allowed near the steering wheel.

[Doctor_J]

173. I can't wait until we find out why WE'RE responsible for Europe's

disillusionment with Obama.

[sibelian]

177. Europe's a giant hot-bed of creepy Rand Paul supporters...

... I guess...

[Skidmore]

197. No, that's what GD has become.

[sibelian]

235. Well that's a bit of a strange hypothesis, really

as no-one in GD is in fact espousing any support for Rand Paul and the criticisms currently being levelled at the govenrment are easily within the established range of left wing opinion that this site has seen for over a decade.

Perhaps putting it all down to a great big dark spooky wave of dirty dirty DIRTY Rand Paul support is a good way of pretending that that strand of the left doesn't exist?

[roamer65]

176. Here's the sadder fact.

The other choices were even worse...McCain or Romney.

[LWolf]

213. No.

There were better choices in the primaries. The sadder fact is that a majority of Democrats in some states chose to favor Obama and Hillary to the exclusion of the rest during the primaries, and to, in the end, nominate Barack Obama. There could have been a better choice on the ballot in November, but Democrats didn't make it.

I say "some states," because my primary was almost 5 months after Obama and HRC were the only two left standing, and Obama was the defacto winner by then. It didn't matter who I voted for.

An even sadder fact: Democrats will never nominate their best. It will always, in the present system, be someone who can be controlled by corporate power. There will never be a mainstream candidate worth voting for in November.

Not unless a large majority of voters break away from the propaganda that dictates their votes. I don't see that happening. Do you?

[Amonester]

181. I guess they never watched any James Bond Agent 007 movies!

Oh, they spy on us, but hey, we spy on them too, but we don't tell any sensation-hungry 'journalist' about it!

[LittleBlue]

191. Bingo. Great article

People are starting to see it.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

192. Whatever...

[sam_25tx]

193. Not Fair

This is not a fair or accurate portrait of President Obama. The things u list are not his fault

[idwiyo]

204. Europe was "the headquarters of global cult of Obama"? WTF? In which reality? Sure he was liked

by some, maybe even majority at the beginning but to call it a 'cult'? Oh well, never mind.

[LWolf]

211. Some of the responses to this thread indicate that

the fantasy isn't crumbling for many on DU.

You never loved him, Purveyor. You're just full of poutrage because you didn't get your pony. You think Romney would have been better???

Etc., etc., etc..

[Purveyor]

214. Those posts are always good for a {{{chuckle}}} after all the positive posting I put up over

the years in favor of the President.

I slept on this article overnight 2 nights ago trying to decide whether to post it or not.

Of course I did knowing it would be a live wired but never expected 110 (and counting) RECS.

[LWolf]

221. Yep. nt

[Sheepshank]

217. I find it interesting...the pursuit of destroying Obama while in other news

....NC and Texas and destroying womens reproductive rights, and the loud RW screeching on, taking multiple votes on destroying any implementation of the HCA, and attmepting to find all sorts of ways to rig voting outcomes for elections, while enabling and enahncing Citizens United.

Why is there this attempt to redirect news to alleged feel bad stories about Obama, when the alternatives are showing the mettle every day?

Interesting indeed.

[RILib]

219. Gitmo is a tiny part of how he's failed to follow through.

[WillyT]

222. K & R !!!

[DeSwiss]

225. ''....but he acts like Dick Cheney.''

OUCH! That's gonna leave a mark. Obama was never a liberal. He's a man who idolized Ronald Reagan and said that his politics today could be characterized as that of an 80's Republican. In case anyone's forgotten, the 80's was when they deregulated everything and left us with the fucked-up world we know today.

- Where the hell is the liberal in all that???

K&R

[Vinnie From Indy]

228. Obama was never a "liberal" - that was the fantasy.

I wrote as much back in 2007 here on DU. I was hoping he would be more liberal than not, but was quickly disappointed with his cabinet picks.

Our choices for representatives now is between choosing bad or worse.

[yurbud]

231. “Obama talks like the president of the ACLU but he acts like Dick Cheney,” sadly true with some

exceptions.