ZIMMERMAN TRIAL: Day 7, Tuesday, July 2, 2013

[GreenStormCloud]

Trial starts again at 9AM Eastern Daylight Time.

Let's combine the many comments about the trial into one large thread instead of having a bunch of thread on GD.

Live streaming, no commercials, no commentators: http://www.mediaite.com/uncategorized/live-zimmerman-trial-jury-selection-day-6/

[RDANGELO]

1. Sereno recommended manslaughter charges for Zimmerman.

Is that admissible evidence?

[GreenStormCloud]

3. I wouldn't think it would be, but I'm not a lawyer.

I do think that manslaughter would have been the better charge. They aren't doing so well on murder=2.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

5. Lesser included charge. And they can argue both consistently.

One can claim someone was acting both with a callous disregard for human life (murder 2) and recklessness (manslaughter) without having to necessarily change the underlying facts of the narrative.

[chelsea0011]

12. Yes, the jury will get to choose for the lesser included charge, and Murder 2

is included because if they can prove Zimmerman profiled Martin and stalked and shot him it will meet the requirement for murder 2. Am I right about that?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

39. Pretty much so.

If the jury believes Zimmerman went out there meaning to confront and/or detain Trayvon, it would support a 2nd Degree charge.

If Zimmerman didn't necessarily mean to confront or detain Trayvon but he did go out knowing there was a good possibility of a physical confrontation, and he still chose to go out of his car, it supports manslaughter.

[GreenStormCloud]

44. True. But that is not the question that post#1 asks.

He asks if the fact that Sereno wanted manslaughter charges is evidence. Evidence of what? That Sereno wanted such charges proves nothing one way or another about Z.

[Voice for Peace]

57. it should raise doubt for the jury about self-defense, if Serino made such a recommendation.

The defense had Serino repeatedly saying there
was nothing in Zimmerman's interview out of the
ordinary that raised red flags, (eg that Zimmerman
was lying or changing his story.)

So if after all of that Serino had recommended
manslaughter, clearly he thought there was some
kind of crime.

[NM_Birder]

82. I agree, wrongful homicide ..or whatever the legal term is.. fits.

he wrongfully confronted and killed Martin, if they had prosecuted Zimmerman in a court of law, instead of public opinion, Zimmerman would be in his cell right now.

[ChiciB1]

45. "Slippery Slope" (DU Poster) Just Posted This Info

at another thread. I have not researched this, I do live in Florida but have no legal background. But why would Sereno suggest manslaughter if Florida law states sentence is same? I certainly do hope he's correct. While I've heard legal eagle's say that following a person you think suspicious IS NOT illegal here in Florida, I myself have had a problem and feel GZ should have let authorities handle this situation. My reaction regarding how GZ handled this has been visceral, and I would probably feel the same way if TM was white/latino or any other race. His actions do give ME a creepy feeling, and if I met him under any circumstances, my intuition would tell me I'd rather not include him in my circle of friends.

This post is to explain some details of Florida sentencing laws, specifically the "10-20-Life" law, and how they relate to the Zimmerman trial.

Some people have expressed surprise that this case wasn't plea bargained down to a lesser offense (such as manslaughter), and others have expressed dismay that the prosecution might not be able to convict on second degree murder charges. Understanding the sentencing laws in this case could help provide clarity on these issues.

Slightly simplified; the Florida "10-20-Life" law requires that anybody convicted of a crime that involved shooting another person is going to face a prison sentence of 25 years to life. This sentence is automatic and there is no judicial discretion.

First point: Consider what this means with regards to a plea bargain. GZ was charged with second degree murder. The penalty for this crime is 25 years to life. If GZ had accepted a plea bargain down to manslaughter, he would still be facing 25 years to life. If GZ had accepted a plea bargain down to aggravated battery, he would still be facing 25 years to life. Any "reasonable" plea that could have been offered to GZ would have effectively had the same penalty so there is little incentive in this case to offer or accept a plea.

Second point: What verdict would be a "win" for the prosecution in this case? Although GZ has been charged only with second degree murder, the jury can choose to find him innocent on that charge but guilty on a lesser charge. Under Florida law, there are four possible charges in this case that the jury could convict GZ of:

* Second degree murder
* Manslaughter
* Aggravated Battery
* Battery

Being convicted of any of the first three charges will trigger the "10-20-Life" law. Being convicted of simple battery would not, however aggravated battery under Florida law means "battery with a deadly weapon". Since GZ clearly did use a deadly weapon, it is nearly inconceivable that a jury could find him guilty of simple battery.

Since any of the first three charges trigger the "10-20-Life" law, effectively any one of them is as good as the other for the prosecution. GZ will be facing 25 years to life if convicted of any.

Basically then, there are three outcomes that are a victory for the prosecution and only one that is a victory for GZ.

[GreenStormCloud]

54. Interesting. Thanks.

[noiretextatique]

47. yes...it is in the official police report eom

[WinkyDink]

2. Let's get them out of the way early: "So now he's guilty already?" "I'll wait to hear all the

evidence." "Only the opinions of the six jurors matter." "Were you there?"

[Roland99]

4. +1

[naaman fletcher]

72. Lol awesome nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

6. State objects to the defendant's questioning of Serino as to if he thought Zimmerman was truthful

Case law appears to be on their side.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

8. Judge rules in prosecution's favor, asks the jury to disregard the question. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. I'm not a big Serino fan

BTW, Serino is on the record as saying he favored filing charges because of pressure from African American officers.

What a happy police department that must be.

[KurtNYC]

10. I think Serino asked the right questions

and picks through the inconsistencies in Zim's account(s) of what happened. He knows Zim isn't chasing TM out of "fear"

That he totally looks and sounds the part, as if Central Casting sent him, is just a bonus.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. But he also said he found Zimmy to be truthful

That had to be stricken from the record. But you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

I have watched this case closely and have seen commentators with no obvious dog in this fight say Zimmy has been untruthful about following Trayvon and the manner in which he died.

[uponit7771]

13. Thx for this, that's material to his attitude

[KurtNYC]

15. Serino's questions and actions show that he did not believe parts of Zim's story

He may have found him to be truthful about SOMEthing but not about "fear" or why he got out of the car, or that he does not know the names of 2 out of the 3 streets in the neighborhood in which he is neighborhood watch captain. In the interrogation tape Serino pauses the tape every time there is an inconsistency and questions Zim very directly about why he finds it inconsistent. Serino says directly, about Zim exiting car to chase TM, "that's not fear."

[Evergreen Emerald]

14. It is a highly improper question

The veracity of a witness is for the jury alone to determine. Anyone asking a witness their opinion on that topic is ringing a bell they know cannot be unrung--and know it is improper.

Had the prosecution asked that question, (assuming conviction) it would be an issue on appeal that would likely result in a reversal.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Plus he said he believed Zimmy couldn't possibly have profiled Martin

Plus he said he believed Zimmy couldn't possibly have profiled Martin because he "mentored African American children."

What nonsense.

It's quite possible and indeed likely Zimmy separates "good ones" and "bad ones" in his his mind. It's akin to the "some of my best friends are, fill in the blank.." defense...

[WinkyDink]

7. The judge's timid-sounding voice annoys me. (I'm easily annoyed.)

[KurtNYC]

17. for reference, transcript of tape they are playing bits of, Serino interrogation

https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=1079

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. Prosecution is on fire now.

[chelsea0011]

19. You just knew yesterday when the defense asked Serino if

he could list all the inconsistencies and he couldn't list any "off hand", that the prosecution on re-direct would go through them one by one.

[Atman]

20. Zimmy is getting ripped to shreds this morning.

To, it turns out the road Z claimed he wasn't knowledgable of was actually the main entrance road to the gated community! The road had the same name as the neighborhood! Further, despite Z's claim to have been merely looking for an address, prosecution showed a photo with the address clearly on the house they were standing in front of. More big holes being shot into Z's bs story.

[Voice for Peace]

58. good.. I missed all of that and am glad to hear it.

for some reason every time I tune in it's the defense attorneys making me ill

[uppityperson]

129. Thank you. Read last night there were only 3 streets and this is even worse. I wondered also about

the addresses since they are typically on the street side, where his truck was.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

21. Bernie's doing a pretty good job on re-direct of Serino.

Points out that Serino did think there was inconsistencies and logical flaws in Zimmerman's story.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. The defense "awoke a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve."

He's much more animated.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

22. This one goes out to Mark O'Mara.

[riverwalker]

24. Bernie's on fire today

must have ate his Wheaties.

[FarPoint]

27. I hope he jumps on this slim-jim crap!

I didn't hear an objection.

[WinkyDink]

29. I KNOW! Something found DAYS later?!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. Probably reading his reviews

But a trial isn't a play... The prosecution has to play the cards they're dealt.

Their best witness is dead and there is enough ambiguity to exploit.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

25. Okay, O'Mara is basically now totally conceding and justifying Zimmerman was profiling.

And insinuating that Trayvon was up to no good.

Claiming there was a slim jim found nearby 5 days after the shooting.

Nice, very nice.

[chelsea0011]

26. Oh good, defense points out that a black man was sentenced to 5 years

for burglary. including some in the neighborhood, so I guess Zimmerman wasn't profiling.

[WinkyDink]

28. "Legally speaking, no."---"Was there anything wrong with Z's following TM?" CRIME isn't the POINT.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

31. Not sure what O'Mara's point is here, except to confuse the jury.

Following and approaching a person isn't illegal. But, as Serino testified, it could be considered confrontational.

The affirmative defense of self-defense can itself be rebutted by adequate provocation. Acting in a confrontational manner could definitely be considered adequate provocation.

[chelsea0011]

32. If you look at the totality of Zimmerman's actions, it is Martin that should be concerned about his

own welfare as Martin was aware he was being followed from the get go. At the point Zimmerman loses sight of Martin and he says he had no idea of the address (!!!), it is plausible to me that Martin may have ducked out of sight because Martin had concerns (fear?) about being followed.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

33. Not just plausible, but logical.

Nothing in the fight or flight human instinct supports what Zimmerman claims Trayvon did.

[WinkyDink]

34. Where are the objections to these questions based on Z's IMPEACHABLE WORDS? This witness needs

to say "I have no knowledge of that" instead of agreeing with the Defense's assumptions as possibilities!!

[WinkyDink]

35. OMG. The Defense just got the witness to agree that Z was "trying to be accurate." WTH?! Z's WHOLE

STORY COULD BE A FABRICATION!

This witness also just replied, "I had no choice but to be okay with it (Z's story)"---as if he doesn't realize what "to be okay with" MEANS.

This witness seems also not to grasp that he should not answer affirmatively to questions about things he is not personally knowledgeable of.
"So there was no pressing of the gun against Trayvon?"
"No, Sir, based on what I read."

NOOOO! Your answer is to be "I'm not the forensics expert, Sir."

This witness SEEMS to be a good one, has the demeanor, the appearance, but he is AWFUL. He is hesitant as to what he actually said and saw, and very quick to acquiesce with the spinning by the Defense.

[chelsea0011]

36. And he got Serino to agree that the evidence shows that Martin was leaning

over Zimmerman because the gun muzzle wasn't pressed against the skin and there was a few inches between shirt and skin. Serino agrees with defense when all it means is that Martin's shirt wasn't solidly against his skin standing, leaning, bent over, or whatever.

[WinkyDink]

37. And on re-re-direct just now, the "TM on top" scenario has been agreed to! The D.A. is WEAK.

[avebury]

38. I wonder why the DA that did the opening

statement did not handle more of the witnesses. I would have loved to see his zeal in handling more of the case then he has been give.

[TorchTheWitch]

135. doesn't matter which one was on top

Far too much is being made of who was on top of who. What matters is what they were doing, why they were doing it, and why Martin was shot because of it.

They were in a physical altercation and like most of these fights they were likely rolling around on the ground and may have switched which was on top a number of times. What matters is why did this physical altercation start in the first place, did MARTIN have the right to protect himself from this creepy guy that he was already demonstratively afraid of from Z's own words as to what he claimed he was doing. And with those words we know that Z perceived him as a bad guy, a fucking thug, probably one of those young black male robbers, etc., and it was Z from long before he got out of his car who was the aggressor. This scared kid that was running away from this guy he thought was creepy and dangerous in some way didn't suddenly become the aggressor. There was no role reversal. Martin didn't perceive himself as the hunted and when almost home suddenly decided to be te hunter with the original aggressor Zimmerman suddenly becoming non-aggressive and non-confrontational.

It matters not which one was on top when Martin was shot. What matters is why Martin got into this physical altercation with Zimmerman at all. THere had to be a deep reason that this kid who was scared of this creepy guy following him enough so that he ran away from him suddenly became involved in a physical altercation with him, and in no way do I believe it was Martin that started it without that deep reason which I believe was Zimmerman exposing or brandishing his gun. At that point anything Martin did was excusable as it would have been HIM standing his ground and defending himself from a crazy dude that had run after him for no reason and was armed. Either that or Z started the physical altercation, and from Rachel's testimony of what she heard and with Martin's cellphone and headset found on the ground near his body that's exactly what I believe happened - that after Martin asked him why he was following him that Z put hands on him in some way as for Martin to reasonably fight him off.

Personally, I DO believe that at the time he was shot Martin was on top. But I also believe he was not reining blows on Z nor bashing his head into concrete that his body fell no where near as Z's injuries in no way support that nor does his story of what happened but that Z already had his gun out and Martin was trying to get it away from him terrified that Z was going to shoot him... and that Z shot Martin because he was afraid that Martin might indeed get hold of his gun but that gun wasn't hidden in his holster but long since already out in his hand.

I don't believe Martin ever punched Z in the nose, and Z's own story of Martin covering his mouth and nose with his hands which would have been bloody from Z claiming he had already been punched before that happened but that Z got the injuries to his nose from either the gun recoil for from Martin after being shot falling on top of him slamming the gun and Z's hand into his own face. If that's how he got the bloodied nose than the only injuries he had before shooting Martin was a couple of tiny abrasions to his head that are far more consistent with rolling over some bits of sticks or small stones on the ground when they got to the ground tussling about. I absolutely believe that Z shot Martin because he already had his gun out in his hand, that Martin was fighting him off and trying to get the gun away from him and that Z suddenly became afraid that he just might be able to. He wasn't afraid for his life from any injuries that this fight gave him but was afraid that his recklessly pulling out his gun on Martin to make sure that he didn't have to worry about Martin trying to hurt him because that's what people who carry guns DO. It's the entire reason they have them - not just to shoot at someone but to threaten someone with so they don't have to worry about getting into a fist fight in the first place. But Martin was already scared of this guy, and if Z pushed him or hit him or laid hands on him in any way it is reasonable that Martin would defend himself and reasonable that Z would have pulled out his gun to try to threaten him to comply with whatever he wanted but this drawing a gun on Martin only increased his terror and he felt he had to violently protect himself and try to get the gun away from him before this loony nut shot him... which sadly is exactly what the loony nut did.

[pintobean]

40. The witness is suppose to answer questions

unless instructed otherwise by the judge. It's the prosecution's job to object. I'm surprised the whole autopsy line of questions was allowed.

[WinkyDink]

42. I agree, and mentioned the DA.

[riverwalker]

41. Mark Osterman on now

on a quick Googling, lots of stuff on this guy. He wrote a book about Zimmerman?

http://www.amazon.com/Defending-Friend-Most-Hated-America/dp/1622958462

Defending our Friend; the Most Hated Man in America

by Mark & Sondra Osterman (Author)

[riverwalker]

49. it's all hearsay

why is this guy even there? The jury is going to wonder why this sweating fool is on the stand but Zimmerman is not.

[WinkyDink]

43. "He told you, when he got Trayvon Martin's hands off his mouth,...." NO EVIDENCE TM did this!

It just seems to me that too much credence is being given by both sides to Z's story, when every single detail, bar what witnesses have reported they saw or heard, might be a fabrication.

Jumped out of the bushes? And then using that possible fiction to BUILD on, with that "Slim-Jim" questioning? Unreal.

The claim of Trayvon pounding Z's head? And using THAT to discuss how "gravity" affects blood flow?

And now a self-serving author who will tell us more of ZIMMERMAN'S UNCORROBORATED STORY?

Whatever.

[Roland99]

46. It's like the prosecution doesn't care...it's even partly helping the defense

[korak]

53. Fascinating performance by a Z partisan.......

With "human interest" details.

And this is another prosecution witness! A strange trial. Or maybe I don't know anything about trials.

Mention of Shellie reminds me. She reportedly has her own matching Kel-Tec 9!

[Roland99]

55. the book author/best friend of Zimmerman?

Reading some live tweets sounds like this guy's book (based upon story told to the guy by Zimmerman) is differing from Zimmerman's taped interview

[uponit7771]

50. Serinos interrogation is powerful, the mouth smothering peice is something the defense hasn't

...defended against

How in the world is Z supposed to be smothered and there be no muffles to the screams

[riverwalker]

48. Ostermans story

Last edited Tue Jul 2, 2013, 01:08 PM - Edit history (1)

I think prosecution should focus on no saliva or blood found on gun. Osterman repeats the part about Trayvons hand over Z's mouth, then reaches for gun. O'Mara thinks blood from nose going back into throat explains away why none of Z's blood on Trayvons hand, but does not explain why no bloody saliva found either, on gun or holster. Osterman says Trayvon had both hands over Z nose AND mouth, there would be some trace of saliva/blood.

[uponit7771]

51. +1,The tip of Z's nose was bleeding also, not the nostrils there's no sense that there was no blood

...TMs hands

Also, remmber Z said his nose was broken...

There wouldn't be any blood from the cut on the nose?!

[premium]

56. Not true,

if you look, you can see a stream of blood out of his right nostril, and you can see where it streamed out of the left side of his nostril and pooled on the left side of his upper lip.

?w=640&h=518

Plus, judging by the miss-happen shape of the right side of his nose, and the way it's cocked over the the right, I'd guess that his nose is broken.

[uponit7771]

70. I see blood on the tip of Z's NOSE, I don't nkow what you're looking at

[premium]

83. That's not my fault that you can't see what's obviously there. nt.

[premium]

94. She just said there was blood coming out of his nose. nt.

[Ninga]

52. Osterman's credibility....he writes a book about his best friends most life altering event

and doesn't vet the draft of the book with the subject to verify he got "facts" down correctly before publishing?????

Really???? Will the DA ask this basic question? Good f**ing grief!

[Voice for Peace]

59. Prosecution playing Sean Hannity interview w/Zim

..

[Tommy_Carcetti]

60. Great, now we have to listen to Sean Hannity's smarmy little voice. nt

[avebury]

65. This interview is really ticking me off.

Zimmerman shows absolutely no remorse. Not even one iota about what he did.

I am so afraid that Trayvon Martin will not get any justice.

[riverwalker]

61. Z tells Hannity

Trayvon hit his head "a dozen times" ???

[WinkyDink]

62. "I didn't think I hit him" vs. "He cried out, 'You got me!'" Which one, GEORGE?

[WinkyDink]

63. So, the death of Trayvon Martin was "God's plan". All-righty, then, Z! You lying PoS.

[riverwalker]

64. "It was all God's plan"

Z answer to Hannity when asked "do you have any regrets?"

[Tommy_Carcetti]

66. I heard one pundit describe Prosecutor John Guy as reminiscent of a "young Kevin Costner"

Physically, it's a nominal resemblance at best.

But in terms of his voice, it's a dead ringer.

[WinkyDink]

68. The voice IS, even to the inflections! Ha! One role is cast....

[Tommy_Carcetti]

85. I just hope he doesn't bring in his dad and ask him to play catch.

I might just tear up.

[riverwalker]

67. Dr. Rao

Medical examiner. Will not only report on Trayvon, but on Zimmerman's "injuries". This will be critical.
Edit: she will NOT be testifying about Trayvon, just Z.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

69. Medical examiner testified that Zimmerman's injuries were "insignificant and not life threatening"

That can't be that good for the defendant's case.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

71. Zimmerman was "not incapacited in any way" post-shooting. nt

[WinkyDink]

73. ONE hit, not "dozens."

[uponit7771]

76. +1

[Tommy_Carcetti]

81. Injuries not consistent with head being slammed repeatedly into concrete.

Repeated slamming would have required suturing.

[uponit7771]

75. +1, establishing what the FP said

[riverwalker]

74. "Insignificant injuries"

the two little cuts occurred at the same time, with one strike

[uponit7771]

77. Yeap, because they were in the same area of the head..that's pretty good

[avebury]

78. A dictionary definition is hearsay - are

you kidding me?

But Zimmerman's buddies' testimony is not?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

84. I think the prosecution willingly let that in.

Basically, I think what the prosecution did was to create an array of the various statements by Zimmerman--by police, to his friend, to Sean Hannity.

The next witnesses, I believe, will highlight inconsistencies (internal and external) and logical fallacies of those stories.

[Voice for Peace]

89. i like the way you think

and I like this witness and how she is responding
to the defense

[riverwalker]

79. sidebar now

she is about to give her definition of "slammed" regarding Z story.

[riverwalker]

80. not consistant with "slammed"

slammed is with "great force" would expect more injury

[Union Scribe]

88. Do you know if he had a head xray or mri or anything?

I just can't imagine a head banging against concrete multiple times and not causing internal damage. Or having it happen to me and not seeking tests. This is damning stuff for the defense.

[uponit7771]

90. +1, I played football for 6 years...if the head was hit in the wrong place you're out...

...doesn't matter how big the guy was..

Against concrete the person is done

[riverwalker]

92. no Xray, no CT scan, no MRI

all the assessments of Z showed no indication to do any tests.

i.e. if EMTs that assessed Z, saw him stumbling, blacking out, they would cart him to hospital. Or if PA who did neuro exam on Z the next day, saw any signs of brain injury, she would send him immediately to hospital. No one saw any signs of head injury.

[Myrina]

91. If they were 'wrestling' near/on the 'cement' as the lady last week put it,

And Zimmy's bald head rolled onto a stone or 2 that was on the walkway, it would likely cause very similar injuries. Especially if Martin was holding him down.
If Martin was 'slamming his head' into the pavement, there'd likely have been skull fractures & more bruising.

[uponit7771]

93. +1

[Tommy_Carcetti]

86. Rao's direct testimony was short and sweet.

Interesting to see what the defense will do to rebut her testimony.

Right now, O'Mara started off by saying the State Attorney in the case appointed her to her position. I guess to show bias or something. Hoo-kay.

[uponit7771]

87. Desperate measure by the defense, she's the ME...we expect here to be related to the state

[Tommy_Carcetti]

95. Rao is coming off as a very strong witness, to me.

Not giving much ground to her position during O'Mara's cross.

[ChiciB1]

98. Just Checked In Here...

But I did hear his Dr. testify last week and GZ's injuries were defined as minor at that time. Actually even GZ said he was fine and needed no further attention, so why does the defense think his injuries were much more severe today?

Am I wrong in thinking that Dr. Rao & his Dr. are on the same page? His injuries stated by him, not so bad, injuries by Dr. not so severe. Where is the distinction?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

99. "Why does the defense think his injuries were much more severe today?"

Because Zimmerman told police and his BFF and Sean Fucking Hannity that his head was being slammed into the ground repeatedly.

And if medical evidence goes to the opposite of that, that's a huge problem for the Defense and Zimmerman's veracity.

Now do people understand why the prosecution chose to play all of Zimmerman's various statements to police and the media?

[ChiciB1]

108. I See It That Way Myself...

But I just checked another thread here asking the question of whether we think prosecution is throwing this case? Many answers there indicate that THEY think they are!

I understand the "politics" operating here, maybe the community will hold it against a prosecutor for "winning" for Trayvon, but I've read so many true crime books and I'm unsure that a prosecutor would really want to "throw" a case in favor of the defense. I guess anything's possible given the world we live in today, so how many here think they are doing this?

Given comments here and comments of a whole lot of people I've talked with I'm not finding very many people who believe GZ. But, those that think he shouldn't be held accountable haven't given me very good arguments supporting GZ. Their points seem weak, but this is a trial and I UNDERSTAND that there's a lot the jury isn't hearing right now.

But throwing the trial? If so, then I'm a real Pollyanna with blinders on. Still I do live in Florida and have seen weird trials here that have enraged me. Still not sure it was because a prosecutor threw the trial.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

109. Sure, a prosecutor could "throw" a case...

....that is, if he or she doesn't mind getting disbarred.

[riverwalker]

96. this is getting ridiculous

if Zimmerman had a pimple on his ass, they show that as evidence well.

[uponit7771]

102. why is the judge letting the defense go on with these stupid questions

[Tommy_Carcetti]

104. I don't think the prosecution minds.

O'Mara's coming off like a blubbering fool.

Rule 1 in adversarial law: If opposing counsel is making a fool of him/herself, let him/her do it.

[riverwalker]

97. O'Mara tried to get her to say

normal variations in the skull, to be bruises and lumps. He failed.

(Note to O'Mara, look up Phrenology.)

[KurtNYC]

101. It would be helpful if they could show injuries that were known to be caused

by a head hitting concrete. Also show a person who has been hit in the face 20 times for comparison. I think most people are not familiar with what specific trauma injuries look like.

[Scootaloo]

106. But they've seen Bruce Willis movies, so they know it's not that bad! n/t

[Tommy_Carcetti]

103. Apparently Mark O'Mara never had a buzz cut in his life.

There's a reason I only had a buzz cut once in my life. I didn't like all the lumps and bumps my head showed.

It's not actually a smooth cue ball, after all.

[WinkyDink]

100. Why is she testifying from photos? Ha! She just asked the same thing! Feh! He got"It's possible"s.

This expert is being brow-beaten now.

[madaboutharry]

105. The medical examiner is giving O'Mara heartburn!

She has testified in 100's of trials. He should know that he can't push her around.

[ksoze]

107. He got her to admit may more impacts possible

She only used minimums he asked for maximums that could cause those wounds.

[avebury]

110. I stepped away so can someone update me on what

the two sides are arguing beforet the judge?

[riverwalker]

112. they want to enter his college transcripts

showing he had prior knowledge of criminal justice etc. Also and application to Virginia police force, and application to do ride alongs with Sanford police.

[avebury]

119. How did the judge rule?

I had to step away again. Sorry!

[riverwalker]

111. State is arguing to enter into evidence

Z coursework that show he had studied self defense and Stand your ground laws. On Hannity he said he had no knowledge of the SYG law until after the shooting. He actually has a class on it.

[GreenStormCloud]

136. No knowledge of SYG? Bullshit!!

Z had a FL CCW. He had to take the classes to get it. Those classes, even though they are only one day, cover self-defense law which includes SYG.

[riverwalker]

113. this is what they are arguing

they want to enter a Professor who says Zimmerman had a class on SYG (and so he lied on Hannity interview)

Hannity said: "A lot of this case legally -- and we are going to get to Mark [O'Mara] in a few minutes here and ask him about a lot of legal aspects, because there are so many of them in this case -- has to do with Stand Your Ground. You have heard a lot about it. And I was just curious, prior to this night, this incident, had you even heard of Stand Your Ground?"
"No, sir," Zimmerman responded.

"You have never heard about it before?" Hannity asked, to which Zimmerman responded simply, "No."

[riverwalker]

115. O'Mara: they have to show he was in the class n/t

[WinkyDink]

122. Not really. Apparently Z denied (to Hannity) even HEARING of SYG. Please.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

114. The defense is objecting to the next witness because it will show Zimmerman lied....

....on the Hannity show by claiming he never knew about SYG until after the shooting.

The next witness is Zimmerman's criminal justice professor who looks to testify that he did.

[riverwalker]

116. Prosecution: He had the text book

Recess to study case law.
Application for police force 2009, application 2010 to do ride alongs, also will be considered. Recess for 30 minutes

[avebury]

121. The evidence should be allowed to be

entered into evidence because it impeaches Zimmerman's numerous interviews where he is trying to play stupid.

[anneboleyn]

117. Fox commentator: "Can of Arizona ice tea = deadly weapon."

So therefore it was okay for Zimmerman to respond in the way he did. (sarcasm alert) Because you know that cans of ice tea are very dangerous murder weapons...sorry, no link, this was just said during their live coverage.

Argh. A can of ice tea and a bag of skittles equal murder weapons. It was okay that Zimmerman, armed with a loaded gun, chased Martin down and all that-- but Martin should not have bought that dangerous stuff at the 7-Eleven.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

123. Fox News, go home, you're drunk.

Okay, he bought a can of iced tea to use as a weapon that he never actually used as a weapon.





Never mind. It's Fox.

[Deny and Shred]

118. Here's some conjecture

I believe that GZ left his car to find TM. On his call, 8 seconds go by from when he closes his car door at 2:17 to the operator telling him, "We don't need you to do that." A further minute and a half of phone call go by, during which he is going anywhere but back to his truck.

When he and the operator eventually agree that he should meet the actual police at his truck, he then asks to be called instead.

My conclusion is he lost Trayvon, and was combing the area looking for him, looking in hiding spots.

The conjecture: he found Trayvon, and told him something like don't move, the police are on he way. Trayvon tried to run away and Zimmerman tried to detain him. They have an altercation, and Trayvon wins it. He is on top, and GZ pulls the gun. The pure conjecture on my part is Trayvon recognizes the gun and does his best to control the gun hand. What if he was trying to wrestle the gun out of his hands for a while, and screaming for help the whole time. Winning the 'fight' but scared as hell that he's fighting an unknown adult stalker with a gun who will shoot him?

They squirm around for a while, during which GZ's head is dragged across the pavement while Trayvon's weight is on him, Trayvon hits him a few times in the process, but George eventually controls, and uses, the firearm.

Crazy?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

120. Not at all crazy.

My theory is pretty much similar to that.

True it's just conjecture, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than Zimmerman's "ambush" story.

[WinkyDink]

125. Makes eminent sense to me.

[riverwalker]

124. walking suspiciously

I still don't know what "walking suspiciously" means, or from 50 feet away "looking like he's on drugs or something" is supposed to look like. "Walking in the rain" is suspicious, since when? I walk in the rain lots of times, I don't care if I get wet. "He doesn't look like he is an athlete training in the rain" Really? From 50 feet away, what makes him not a jogger just resting for a while? He had a slim athletic build. We will never know because Z won't take the stand, .

[Cali_Democrat]

127. walking suspiciously = walking while black

[riverwalker]

130. "he was looking at houses"

What the heck? How did Z know where Trayvons eyes were looking? Prosecution should make a montage of all these crazy reasons Z found Trayvon suspicious. Just to drive it home for the jury.

[WinkyDink]

126. If there are class attendance records, or even proof that Z was there on Day 1 when the syllabus was

handed out, he's trapped.

[riverwalker]

128. sounds like the Professor is there

waiting in the wings for the judge to give the ok.

[riverwalker]

131. they will decide in the morning

the Professor will have to wait. So they will the next witness

[WinkyDink]

132. They're baaaaack.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

133. Kristen Benson, finger print expert.

Another possible hole in Zimmerman's stories about Trayvon reaching for the gun?

[Mr. David]

134. Slightly off-topic, but I seem to recall seeing a live captioned stream version of the trial...

Although I had to admit it was a badly attempted effort...

so I'm trying to find the same link so I can show a friend of mine how little they care about the new captioning laws for the Internet.

Even Youtube's "automated captions" continues to be a running joke among the deaf.