WTF? Who Wanted to Kill Occupy Leaders?

[Left Coast2020]

Last edited Wed Jul 3, 2013, 01:40 AM - Edit history (1)

A Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Washington, D.C.-based Partnership for Civil Justice Fund yielded an FBI document containing knowledge of a plot by an unnamed group or individual to kill "leaders" of the Houston chapter of the nonviolent Occupy Wall Street movement.

Here's what the document said, according to WhoWhatWhy:

An identified [DELETED] as of October planned to engage in sniper attacks against protestors (sic) in Houston, Texas if deemed necessary. An identified [DELETED] had received intelligence that indicated the protesters in New York and Seattle planned similar protests in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio and Austin, Texas. [DELETED] planned to gather intelligence against the leaders of the protest groups and obtain photographs, then formulate a plan to kill the leadership via suppressed sniper rifles. (Note: protests continued throughout the weekend with approximately 6000 persons in NYC. 'Occupy Wall Street' protests have spread to about half of all states in the US, over a dozen European and Asian cities, including protests in Cleveland (10/6-8/11) at Willard Park which was initially attended by hundreds of protesters.)

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/18199-fbi-documents-show-plot-to-kill-occupy-leaders

We are/have become a totalitarian nation. The corporate powers that be are trying to snuff us out for their bottom line.

[arely staircase]

1. did you miss this the first time?

[HooptieWagon]

2. Who do you think the NSA surveillence is for?

Hint: Its not for spying on terrorists.

[TDale313]

5. I suspect you're right.

Or at least not just for spying on terrorists.

[HiPointDem]

8. the majority of fisa warrants are for drugs. not terrorists.

[Octafish]

32. Odd, considering how the big banks continue money laundering unabated.

Back in the day it was Nugan-Hand and Riggs Bank. Now, though, it's the big big players.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021963678

And like he did with Bush and Cheney, Holder lets them walk.

[Fire Walk With Me]

3. The FBI uncovered a plot by someone or some organization to potentially assassinate

Occupy leaders. The FOIA document shows the name of this person or organization in Texas to have been redacted. We don't know who. The point is, the FBI appear to have done nothing about it.

With friends like these...

Read more from the rest of the documents:

Report Details How Counter Terrorism Apparatus Was Used to Monitor Occupy Movement Nationwide
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12527647

It also details how information on Occupy gleaned by government agencies were given to the very corporations we targeted as The Problem. The government, spying on a peaceful movement, sharing the information with corporations. NICE, huh?

Pay no attention to the "Didn't happen" crowd. They're the same ones who demand
-There is no illegal government spying on citizens (proven wrong months ago in these documents)
-Government isn't in cahoots with corporations and the plutonomists (obviously they are)

Oakland's "progressive" democratic mayor Jean Quan let slip that 18 mayors conference-called regarding what to do about Occupy encampments in their cities. This was obviously enjoined and at minimum overseen by DHS and others. And DHS have government membership who are completely against Occupy (Peter King has said straight out that "this cannot be allowed to gain credibility" or similar). Then, a wave of attacks upon encampments...orchestrated. Systematic. By our mayors and government. The violence involved, the 7700 or so arrests, fall under the definitions of domestic terrorism as defined in the "patriot act" and by the FBI themselves, regarding the use or threat of force against a civilian population, especially for political purposes.

Wheeee....

[arely staircase]

6. that was messed up how they let that sniper shoot all those protestors

by doing nothing about it.

[Fire Walk With Me]

7. Mentioning intent to kill, especially for political purposes, is a crime and is a terrorist threat

by the FBI's definitions. And they did nothing, arrested no one. Glad you have no problem with that and thank you for your support of the Occupy Wall Street movement, who revealed a problem still not addressed one whit by our pathetic, corporate-owned politicians. But you know about this and reject the situation, correct?


An AMAZING visualization of wealth inequality in America (VIDEO)

[arely staircase]

11. that I have no problem with what?

something that isn't real?

[Fire Walk With Me]

16. Do you refer to the plot the FBI discovered, the astonishing income inequality US citizens

are suffering under, or your capacity to consider the facts placed before you?



That's rhetorical. You are completely willing to overlook anything you don't like instead of considering it and perhaps altering your worldview accordingly. To Ignore you go, long long since overdue.

[sabrina 1]

58. Oh not to worry, they only nearly killed two Iraq Veterans, poor souls thought they had been

'fighting for our freedoms' only to discover they had no rights at all when the Banks feel threatened by their peaceful protests in accordance with that now, old, quaint document known as the US Constitution.

We're still waiting to see some prosecutions for the near killing of our Military Veterans peacefully demonstrating as they thought it was their right to do.

But you can rest easy, so far the perp robo cops are being protected.

[arely staircase]

66. that isn't near as bad as all those the sniper in houston killed ntt

[sabrina 1]

73. I think that when War Veterans are nearly killed by Robo Cops exercising their Constitutional rights

under the 1st Amendment of the Constitution, it is not a matter for flippancy. I hope one day those responsible will be brought to justice. Both of those men survived Bush's illegal invasions of other countries, both were on the streets of their own country, under the assumption they had certain rights. Both have learned they do not when Wall St is feeling threatened, and both have learned, along with the world that was watching, that as Ari Fleischer once said, back when he was on the wrong side of things, 'they better watch what they say'.

We all have.

[arely staircase]

77. I'm trying to keep my comments to the OP nt

[sabrina 1]

78. I'm responding to comments in a thread which is what we do here.

As I said, I hope the perpetrators of those crimes are one day brought to justice. But for now, we'll have to wait, until the rule of law is re-established. Meantime, everyone needs to watch what they say about Wall St and their puppets, obviously.

[arely staircase]

79. well why are you responding to my comments which are about the op?

that makes no sense.

[sabrina 1]

81. Same reason you are responding to mine. Is there some rule that people cannot respond

to particular comments? Feel free to respond to any of mine, I have zero problem with people responding to me, even those who have nothing but insults to defend their positions. I'm for complete openness and transparency and can handle anything thrown my way as I defend this country against the defenders of the Surveillance state.

You can use ignore if you like, I don't, but it's there if you don't want to discuss issues with certain people.

My comments are related to the OP, btw.

[limpyhobbler]

67. wtf is your problem exactly?

If the cops find out somebody is plotting to murder some political activists, then the cops ought to do something about it such as inform the activists that there could be some danger.

WTF is your purpose in mocking this ?

[arely staircase]

70. nothing in that memo proves anything other than they heard about some threat

and investigated it. and as far as informing the activists, who were they supposed to inform exactly? every single person who planned on attending the protests?

[johnnyreb]

64. The House DHS Chairman said:

Peter King, then Chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security, said about OWS:

"We have to be careful not to allow this to get any legitimacy. I’m taking this seriously in that I’m old enough to remember what happened in the 1960s when the left-wing took to the streets and somehow the media glorified them and it ended up shaping policy. We can’t allow that to happen."

Peter King on the 2004 election, "we'll take care of the counting":

[arely staircase]

69. Hence the bloody Houston sniper attack, will any of us ever forget that? nt

[okaawhatever]

4. This post is a repeat from a questionable source. The FBI never wanted to kill anyone in occupy. nt

[struggle4progress]

9. Holy shizz! Who amongst us doesn't remember that terrible mass shooting of all those Occupy folk?

And now we learn the FBI was behind it!

Really gotta wonder now if the FBI isn't behind all those horrid alien abductions with personal probes we always hear about!

[arely staircase]

12. so you don't care about income inequality?

because if you don't believe this whackaloon, tin foil hat conspiracy theory you hate the poor and are obviously a tool for the 1 percent.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

22. I thought Kaiser Permanente was doing the anal probes now....

Seems like every member I've met ends up with a colonoscopy.

[Cali_Democrat]

10. Dave Lindorff thinks the CIA was behind the Boston bombing.

This obviously is just more horseshit coming from him.

[Octafish]

36. Lindorff brought up the fact the brothers have a CIA connection:

Their Uncle Ruslan married a CIA bigwig Graham Fuller's daughter. Family's in the oil business, natch.

http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/24/the-boston-bombings-and-the-cia-connection-graham-fuller-and-uncle-ruslan-tsarnaev/

Not surprised this part of the story didn't get more traction on Corporate McPravda, but to see it sink on DU is surprising.

Oh well, like Reagan sputtered at the '88 RNC, "Facts are stupid things. Stubborn things."

[Cha]

13. Bullshit.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

14. I always love a well reasons, logical argument repudiating a point

Bullshit is as good an argument as fuck you, blow me, eat shit and kiss off.

[arely staircase]

15. All of which are more coherent than the OP nt

[Nanjing to Seoul]

17. Not saying this, that or the other thing. I just find the response "bullshit" to be a bit

juvenile without explaining why something is bullshit.

It's like me calling someone a douchebag and saying "just because."

[arely staircase]

18. some things are bullshit

and the OP is bullshit

[Nanjing to Seoul]

19. Again, not disagreeing. . .just want more logic than "bullshit."

[snooper2]

35. Some things don't deserve more logic than "bullshit"

It fucking stupid Alex Jones type idiocy that's been posted here for months now..

So we see it, we say, Bullshit...

This thread should be locked and disposed of, it's garnered to much attention as it is. Maybe there should be an IQ test before you are allowed to use the Internet

[Number23]

75. "Maybe there should be an IQ test before you are allowed to use the Internet"

OPs like this make this sound like a pretty good idea. If there were IQ tests, judging by the rec list for this foolishness, there'd be 34 fewer folks cruising the web tomorrow than there are today!

[phleshdef]

72. LOL. You want more logic? Okay... "fucking bullshit". There you go.

[Cha]

20. ..

[Spitfire of ATJ]

23. You know,....when you REALLY think about it, those don't go well together....

....unlike screaming at a tailgater "Get off my ass, dickhead!"

[Fire Walk With Me]

21. The FBI discovered a plot to kill Occupiers. The FBI confirm this is real. Here are the actual docs.

FBI Response

WhoWhatWhy contacted FBI headquarters in Washington, and asked about this document—which, despite its stunning revelation and despite PCFJ press releases, was (notwithstanding a few online mentions) generally ignored by mainstream and “alternative” press alike.

The agency confirmed that it is genuine and that it originated in the Houston FBI office. (The plot is also referenced in a second document obtained in PCJF’s FOIA response, in this case from the FBI’s Gainesville, Fla., office, which cites the Houston FBI as the source.) That second document actually suggests that the assassination plot, which never was activated, might still be operative should Occupy decisively re-emerge in the area. It states:






From:

http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/06/27/fbi-document-deleted-plots-to-kill-occupy-leaders-if-deemed-necessary/

and the PCFJ:

http://www.justiceonline.org/our-work/ows-foia.html

There's plenty of FOIA info there to browse:

Legal Documents
DHS Occupy Documents #4 Pt2 (267 pages)
(April 2, 2013)
DHS Occupy Documents #4 Pt1 (253 pages)
(April 2, 2013)
FBI Occupy Documents #1 (112 pages)
(December 22, 2012)
DHS Occupy Documents #3 Pt1 (303 pages)
(July 31, 2012)
DHS Occupy Documents #3 Pt2 (309 pages)
(July 31, 2012)

And there's more than that at the PCFJ page.

[Eddie Haskell]

24. Houston, we have a problem.

WTF, indeed.

[datasuspect]

25. they did it with the black liberation movement

[KansDem]

26. How would deaths due to sniper attacks be explained?

Oswald wannabee on the loose?

[JackRiddler]

83. Are you supposed to fix the problems with the plan?

The FBI has admitted this is a genuine document.

At this point, it's not the job of citizens to question the logic behind the plan.

Here's what matters: Who came up with this? How were they found out? Why aren't they being prosecuted?

[NoMoreWarNow]

27. I'm not surprised, but this is amazing news

The FBI is really a criminal organization.

[NoMoreWarNow]

28. this DailyKos post is more coherent about the story

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/30/1220039/-FBI-Kept-Quiet-About-OWS-Assasination-Plot-FOIA-Obtained-Docs-Show

[SidDithers]

29. At DU, the FBI investigating a plot to kill Occupy Leaders...

is the same as the FBI themselves plotting to kill Occupy leaders.



Sid

[geek tragedy]

34. The Tea Party isn't big enough to hold

all the crazies.

[Number23]

74. I'm thinking the same thing!! Sweet Jesus!

How the hell does the OP get "FBI wanted to kill Occupiers" out of "FBI uncovers a plot from an UNNAMED GROUP that wanted to kill leaders of one of the Occupy movements?"

DAMN, the crazy is thick around here sometimes. People will not read

[Octafish]

30. At DU, thank goodness, some are unafraid to ask why the FBI would entertain such an idea.

Especially considering the government's illegal domestic surveillance program, let alone the FBI's still unexplained roles in the deaths of liberal leaders, civil rights leaders, and others who threatened the status quo.

[MineralMan]

41. The FBI did NOT entertain this idea.

It was something planned by a different, non-government group. The FBI was aware of it. Nothing of the sort actually happened. Perhaps the FBI took actions to prevent the plans from occurring.

Nothing in the post says anything about what the FBI did, and another paragraph, which may have done that, was redacted.

The FBI doesn't murder protesters. Wacko right wing groups are the ones you want for that.

[HardTimes99]

43. Agree 100%. What bothers me is that FBI knew of a threat serious enough to

Merit an investigation but did not warn Houstonians or Occupy Houston. That to me warrants some scrutiny.

[MineralMan]

46. It's not clear to me from what is presented.

I can't see any reference to what the FBI did or did not do with regard to this threat. So, I have no idea what they did or did not do.

No such attack occurred, though. That much I do know. Why that was is also not explained in this post or in any of the other material I have seen regarding the threat.

Of course it's of concern and should be scrutinized. However, the conclusion drawn by this poster is patently incorrect, which is my objection to this thread. I don't know of any assassinations of any Occupy participants. I do know about police actions that resulted in injuries to participants, though.

The FBI has been observing, investigating, and attempting to defuse and disrupt protest movements since the early 1960s. No question about that. As a participant in anti-war and civil rights activism in the mid to late 1960s, everyone involved was aware that the FBI was actively investigating those who were involved in planning and carrying out protest activism.

The FBI has also been involved in investigating the Ku Klux Clan and other racist organizations, along with neo-nazi groups and right-wing organizations that plan violence or insurrection-style actions. It's sort of the FBI's job to investigate groups that have the potential to cause violence or illegal actions. How they do that is sometimes over the top, certainly, but I don't believe they're involved in assassination schemes against any such protest movements.

[HardTimes99]

54. There's no doubt in my mind that the OP completely misconstrued the

nature of the document and reportage of same. It brings discredit upon legitimate criticism of law enforcement to have such whack-a-doodle shit propagated.

However, I wanted to share with you why I raise the concern. At Occupy Los Angeles, it was customary for young children to be at the encampment along with their parents\guardians. Indeed, some of the children there may have actually been camping with their parents. Now I do not know about the situation at Occupy Houston -- perhaps one of our Houstonian colleagues can chime in with his or her memories -- but I do know that no loving parent would willingly and knowingly place his his children in the potential line of fire of a sniper. Furthermore, many of the adult participants at Occupy Houston might have scaled back their participation were they aware that a threat to their wellbeing existed out there.

For the FBI to clam up and simply respond with 'no comment' to all inquiries about this runs counter to my idea of what an accountable democracy looks like. But there's so much shit to be upset and outraged about that I think I shall have to leave it to Occupy Houston and Houstonians to keep rattling the FBI's chains on this matter. If I lived in Houston, though, I would be fucking pissed off (assuming I were not the erstwhile sniper or affiliated with same).

[MineralMan]

60. Well, if the threat were credible, I certainly hope people

would be notified. If not, maybe not.

Personally, I'm not fond of people bringing young children to protests. There's always the potential for protests or the response to protests to turn ugly. Provocateurs, as were noted at some of the Occupy actions, along with stupid law enforcement actions, are always a danger, and children aren't equipped to deal with such things well.

I use to argue against the presence of children during the late 60s at anti-war protests in the DC area. Despite the idea that having children present might cause authorities to scale back their response, I never found that a good argument. I was never in a position to keep children away, though, but always raised that issue when it came up.

Street activism always presents some risk to participants. It always has, and probably always will. Sometimes that risk can be truly life-threatening, as in the civil rights protests, where people did die for participating. Usually, the risks are limited to a face full of mace or tear gas. Adults can accept those risks, but I don't think children should be subjected to them.

There have been many "threats" of violence against the Occupy movement. Most were Internet bravado only. I don't know of any assassinations that took place, though.

[Octafish]

51. So, the document shows the FBI knew a company discussed assassinating OWS leaders...

...privatized assassination, according to you. That still doesn't explain why I don't recall reading or hearing anywhere that the FBI arrested anyone who discussed assassinating OWS leaders.

That must explain why you wrote the "FBI doesn't murder protestors." Perhaps they outsource. Remember what FBI did to Judi Barri and Earth First! ?

http://www.judibari.org/

[MineralMan]

53. No, I didn't hear about any arrests, either.

And the FBI document says nothing about any "company." What I take from that is that there were no arrests, and that the FBI decided that whatever threat may have been made was either not credible or the report of such a threat was incorrect.

The FBI and Secret Service, for example, investigate many, many threats against the President and other elected officials. In the vast majority of cases, they determine that the threat is not credible and do nothing more than warn the person involved that they are aware of the threat and will be watching that person.

I do remember the Judi Barri case, yes. I'm not sure how it applies to this thread, though. The title of the OP said that the FBI was planning to assassinate Occupy "leaders." That's clearly nonsense, even with a cursory reading of the document. That is what I am talking about here.

[Octafish]

61. Judi Barri was 'deemed' a 'terrorist' even though she was peaceful, law abiding citizen.

Yet, the FBI was OK with her getting framed as a terrorist and bombed.

Remember what happened to Ronni Moffitt? She just happened to be killed along with Orlando Letelier, the target of Operation CONDOR.

Poppy Bush's CIA was OK with it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2214484

[MineralMan]

62. Again, I'm not sure what any of those incidents have to do

with this thread.

[Octafish]

63. They demonstrate how assassination is acceptable in certain quarters of the national security state.

As one who believes in democracy and that no one is above the law, I find government sanctioned assassination to be most disturbing and un-American.

Remember Operation PHOENIX? That killed thousands in cold blood. Yet, some think it's misunderstood.

[pnwmom]

57. Why would they investigate a plot like this? Because it's their job.

Investigating a plot is NOT the same as carrying one out. The OP was completely misleading.

[MineralMan]

31. I don't think your post says what you think it says.

What it says is that the FBI knew of this plan, and that's all it says. It doesn't say what the FBI did with that information at all. Nobody killed Occupy "leaders," by using snipers, that I know of. So, perhaps the FBI acted to prevent whatever group this was from carrying out their plan.

Your post title is very misleading, and does not reflect the information in he material you quoted. We can read, you know.

[geek tragedy]

33. I'm glad I don't live in your world. nt

[geek tragedy]

37. Jury results:

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue Jul 2, 2013, 10:37 AM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: FBI didn't want to kill anybody. Completely misleading.

Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I agree with the alerter that this post doesn't reflect the reality of the FOIA FBI documents. Having said that, I think that the further discussion/revelations are pertinent to discussions about domestic spying and efforts to keep citizenry safe from terrorist acts, both foreign and domestic. What this tells me is that the poster put this up either in ignorance or to push an agenda, and the rest of the discussion shows the error of his assertion.

Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: Hit and run flame bait and conspiracy nonsense. Be afraid, be very afraid!

Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Ignorance and idiocy are not grounds in and of themselves to hide a post.

Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given

Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: It's been sufficiently debunked by posters to this thread. I say let it stand as an example of fear-mongering and lack of critical thinking skills.Thank you.

"Leave it alone" posts in bold.

[Octafish]

38. Well. Not everyone believes in censorship.

I wonder if people who believe in censorship also approve of NSA spying on Americans?

[geek tragedy]

39. Would you advocate allowing birther threads at DU?

I don't think it's unacceptable for a discussion board to have rules against crazy talk and blatant lies and falsehoods.

[Octafish]

49. The document is from the FBI.

I refer to shutting down its discussion.

[geek tragedy]

50. Blatantly misrepresenting and lying about its contents is not discussion. nt

[Octafish]

52. Agreed. Here are the FBI documents. I've no problem with letting DUers read them for themselves.

OWS Florida:



OWS Texas:



"...if deemed necessary."

Deemed by whom?

[geek tragedy]

59. the people intending to shoot them.

In general, government plans to assassinate political dissidents wouldn't be labeled "unclassified" and "routine" and then produced via FOIA.

[Javaman]

65. The people who voted to leave this...

are under some erroneous impression that everyone on DU actually reads, pays attention and debates in a proper and orderly fashion each controvercial topic on DU.

Sadly, there are no disclaimers with bad posts.

[Number23]

76. Even the jurors that left it alone think that the thread is a steaming pile of stupid

Says quite a bit about the 34 special souls that rec'd it.

[MineralMan]

40. I'm just curious. Were you planning to return to this thread

and address the issues in the many replies? I'm concerned, because your post title is inaccurate and distorts the story, as many have pointed out. What is your response to that concern?

[HardTimes99]

44. I'm also curious. The OP cites his or her misreading of the doc as

evidence of 'totalitarianism,' but lacks the decency or integrity to defend or delete the OP. Weird shit!

[geek tragedy]

45. 28 recs. Reflects a certain mindset around here, nt

[MineralMan]

47. Well, the OP doesn't post very frequently, it seems.

Perhaps he or she is behaving typically by posting something and then not following up on it. There are a number of DUers who do that as a matter of habit. Since our jury system has seen fit to leave this inaccurate and potentially disruptive post to stand, that's about it. It stands. So it's up to others to point out the errors and inaccuracies in the OP, and several have done so.

[morningfog]

42. While your headline is not accurate. I do wonder what the organization was that had such plans.

I wish we could see the identities of the person(s) who wanted to shoot occupiers. It seems to have been a local Texas organization. I would really like to know if it was a purely private crazy group or if there was some overlap with public officials in Texas.

[MineralMan]

48. That would be interesting to know. However, the FBI doesn't

reveal such things in these FOI responses, unless they are being prosecuted and the names are public information. That's their standard practice in these situations, so I doubt we'll be able to find out.

The reason for them not revealing identities is because many false reports are also investigated by the FBI. In actual fact, there may never have been a real plan to assassinate anyone. It could have been some idle comments by some person or organization that were found to be just that when the FBI investigated. I don't know, and the FBI isn't saying. In any case, no such assassinations occurred, nor was anyone arrested or charged with regard to any such plans.

If I had a dollar for every right wing creep who has proposed that people be killed who disagrees with the far right point of view, I would not be worried about making my mortgage and car payment so often.

[think]

56. Yes the headline needs to be changed. And it is disconcerting that entrapment cases were used

in other cases but not in this one.

Not that I support entrapment but one can see where such tactics have been used to a disparaging level against certain groups and that is not cool.

One would think that laws in cases like this should be uniform in there application.

JMO

[pnwmom]

55. WTF! Why are you blaming the FBI for INVESTIGATING other people

who appeared to be plotting to kill Occupy leaders?

Isn't that supposed to be the FBI's job?

This one document won't tell you how or when or if the investigation has been resolved; only that it took place. And none of the Occupy leaders have been killed, have they?

[DevonRex]

68. Sorry but a subject line that misleading can't be accidental, IMO.

Good grief, this place has gone way downhill.

Best move is to call DU a satire site from now on. Say we're satirizing ourselves.

[ChiciB1]

71. I Just Finished Reading "Hit Man" AND

the FBI used Whitey Bulger, Steve Slemmi & others as informants all the while knowing that they were initiating hits themselves.

That was as far back as the 70's for sure, but have things really changed much? Some would say they've probably gotten worse, I might include myself. I know the numbers, force & gear being worn these days certainly look much more ominous than ever before. There is the "thin blue line" mentality that exists in law enforcement and also the medical profession a lot. And perhaps other professions too.

I'm not saying yea or nay because I don't know who's monitoring my statements here. Just proposing scenarios.

[tritsofme]

80. Junk like this should move to the truther/birther forum.

[arely staircase]

82. this is the second time it has been posted in less than a week nt

[Purveyor]

84. I just stumbled across this during a news search. Thanks for posting, indeed. eom