Snowden: Obama Using "Citizenship As A Weapon"

[Purveyor]

By JESSICA HARTOGS / CBS NEWS/ July 1, 2013, 6:43 PM

In his first statement since he left Hong Kong a week ago, former government contractor Edward Snowden says he has left the country after, "It became clear that my freedom and safety were under threat for revealing the truth."

The American analyst-turned-leaker is currently believed to still be at Moscow's international airport, where he is believed to have applied for political asylum to remain in Russia.

In his statement, released Monday by Wikileaks, Snowden accuses President Obama of ordering Vice-President Biden to pressure country leaders to deny his asylum petitions.

Snowden alleges that the Obama administration is using, "citizenship as a weapon."

"Although I am convicted of nothing," Snowden writes, "It has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person. Without any judicial order, the administration now seeks to stop me exercising a basic right. A right that belongs to everybody. The right to seek asylum."

MORE...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57591885/snowden-obama-using-citizenship-as-a-weapon/

[Andy823]

1. One problem

He left "before" he leaked his information, so that's just BS about having to leave because his freedom and safety were under threat.

[frazzled]

2. His passport was revoked, not his citizenship

A couple of points:

passport revocation may be (and is) done for a number of reasons, including when there is a federal warrant for arrest or when there is an extradition request.

He wouldn't be "stateless" if he hadn't fled the United States.

[KoKo]

3. When your Passport is Rejected...you are NO LONGER able to Travel...

And therefore you are a Man or Woman..."Without a Country."

That's WHY he's still there in Russian Airport.

[randome]

4. Why do you conflate 'no longer able to travel' with citizenship?

They are two entirely different things.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[KoKo]

7. To Travel as US Citizen you need a Passport...without that...you can't travel

and if your Passport was Revoked by USA...you are a "Person without a Country" when it's revoked if you are out of the USA or IN.

So...if you have other information give a link to it if US Policy has changed since my latest Passport Issue.

Okay?

[frazzled]

12. Oh, US agents will be happy to escort him here

"We All Make the Bed We Must Lie In" (via Bertolt Brecht)

[HiPointDem]

77. original better

[frazzled]

81. Well, of course, the great Lotte Lenya ... but

then few here would understand the lyrics

It's odd that there are so few recordings from The Rise and Fall of the City of Mahagonny in English (there's apparently one with Audra McDonald and Patti Lupone, but that sounds so pop to me). It's a favorite, and it's performed quite rarely. More and more these days, my head seems to resort to songs by Brecht & Weill as I contemplate the crazy disorder in the world and in our culture. Does it mean we feel we are in a Weimar kind of period again? If so, the words of Karl Marx in his 18 Brumaire of Napoleon ring ever more true: history is always repeated twice, first as tragedy, second as farce.

[HiPointDem]

82. I've felt the weimarish for some time.

[arely staircase]

21. revoking a fugitive's passport is SOP nt

[gholtron]

63. uuuuuuh that's kind of the point.

The president does not want him to travel with material that does not belong to him. Koko.

[pnwmom]

87. He's still a US citizen. He just can't legally travel anywhere ELSE,

just like any other citizen who doesn't have a passport.

[DevonRex]

90. Upon extradition request the person's passport is revoked. Period.

Part of the process. He's a fugitive from justice. He's a national security risk. Look it up. He pretty much ticked all the boxes for reasons to revoke. I posted the info last week. I won't dig it up again.

WTF did he think would happen? He's an idiot airport dweller. Who's gonna want a traitor in their midst? He sold out the country of his BIRTH ferchrisake. He's tainted goods.

[frazzled]

10. He could come back to the US

That's the point. And he'd still be a citizen. A citizen who would have to face the charges levied against him, and would have to stand trial. That's what people who perform acts of civil disobedience do. That's what Ellsberg did: voluntary presented himself to the court. He didn't flee the country.

The statement that he has no citizenship, in the OP, is 100% false.

Edward Snowden is the master of his own fate. He chose to take all the documents, which is certainly an act that was up to him to do. But it was illegal and he knew it was illegal. Rather than standing some principled ground by submitting to a trial, he chose to flee to Hong Kong, and then Russia, in an attempt to get Ecuadorean asylum. His predicament is entirely his own.

If he's a man without a country now, it was by his own choice.

[treestar]

33. He can travel back here

He's a citizen. He only needs a passport to be admitted to other countries.

This claim shows what a liar he is. That's no longer in question.

[struggle4progress]

79. 22 CFR Subpart E — Denial, Revocation, and Restriction of Passports

§ 51.60 Denial and restriction of passports.

... (b) The Department may refuse to issue a passport in any case in which the Department determines or is informed by competent authority that:

(1) The applicant is the subject of an outstanding Federal warrant of arrest for a felony ... <or>

(5) The applicant is the subject of a request for extradition or provisional request for extradition which has been presented to the government of a foreign country ...

§ 51.62 Revocation or limitation of passports.

(a) The Department may revoke or limit a passport when

(1) The bearer of the passport may be denied a passport under 22 CFR 51.60 ...

§ 51.65 Notification of denial or revocation of passport.

(a) The Department will notify in writing any person .. whose passport has been revoked ...

§ 51.66 Surrender of passport.

The bearer of a passport that is revoked must surrender it .. upon demand ...

http://cfr.regstoday.com/22cfr51.aspx#22_CFR_51pSUBPART_E

[pnwmom]

86. Not being able to travel does NOT make him stateless. All it does is prevent him

from traveling elsewhere.

He's still a US citizen and can return to the US to face trial at any time. Or he can accept asylum in any country that is willing to take him.

[AlinPA]

92. Has he tried Iran? Or contacted al-Qaeda for help?

[flamingdem]

43. Felons can't have passports either

at least for x number of years after release

[NightWatcher]

5. He ran away to China and Russia. Obama didn't throw him out.

Like I figured, the guy is a noob to the international intelligence game and is in WAY over his head. Now he wants a mulligan.

[Andy823]

6. Yep

You would think that a " real spy" would know what was going to happen to him once he left the country, then leaked the information. The comment that he left because he feared for his freedom and safety is just BS, he leaked after he left, not before.

[NightWatcher]

8. Spies stay in safe houses not the Airport Mockba Starbucks

[HiPointDem]

78. they also usually spy for someone else who will give them haven.

[Tarheel_Dem]

9. He let GeeGee and Julian's ASS-anganistas write a check his ass will never be able to cash.

It just breaks me up.



NOT!

[KittyWampus]

15. a mulligan!

[HipChick]

11. Fuck Snowden..

Cry Baby...

[sagat]

13. Fuck this weasel.

Fuck his groupies too.

[MjolnirTime]

18. right in the ear!

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. sideways!

[sibelian]

19. Welcome to DU!

An my ignore list!



*PLONK*

[CakeGrrl]

14. "Obama ruined my getaway!"

Waaaah.

That's what's REALLY eating him.

[arely staircase]

20. this ^^^^ nt

[Cha]

25. I may have to borrow that?

The Whine is strong and the grapes are bitter with that sneaky snitch to China and Russia.

[CakeGrrl]

65. Please do!

[treestar]

36. Exactly! Obama is invoking the law!

How unfair!

The executive is executing the law! Horrors!

[SidDithers]

74. Nailed it...nt

Sid

[graham4anything]

80. +1

[KittyWampus]

16. WAIT! I thought he was already in Hong Kong when the1st article was printed.

[MjolnirTime]

17. You can't betray a Government and expect to hold valid documents from it at the same time.

That's just stupid.

Sorry nobody else wanted your lame ass, Snowball.

[Purveyor]

28. Who 'betrayed' who first? The government to its people or Snowden? eom

[Cha]

35. Snowden did what he did and now he can't face Justice in the USA. But, he can

whine ignorantly in Russia about "not having been convicted of anything".. no, that definitely hasn't happned, genius. Did someone feed him bullshit and now he's lashing out at Pres Obama for 'messing with his getaway"?

And, what's up with Snowden saying.. he's "not here to hide from Justice".. which is clearly a lie?

[Purveyor]

37. Perhaps you missed the question. Who 'betrayed' who first, the gov't by spying on its citizens or

Snowden?

[Cha]

44. I didn't miss anything.. I'm talking about the OP. Snowden betrayed the USA..

The USA hasn't betrayed me.

Now he's whining his damn head off like a whiny little bully victim.

[Purveyor]

49. Well if you think the USA hasn't betrayed you...there is nothing left for you and me to discuss.

Have a nice evening.

[MjolnirTime]

84. You know dick.

[phleshdef]

89. The American people betrayed themselves when they went along with this shit in the first place.

We (as in the majority) let 9/11 go to our heads and we elected people who enabled the existence of these programs.

[pnwmom]

88. His claims about US surveillance have been disputed. The fact that he faces felony charges

for stealing classified documents is not. When you're charged with a felony, the government can revoke your passport to keep you from running away. In that sense, he's just like any other alleged felon on the lam.

[arely staircase]

50. so NSA snooping is wrong therefore snowden should be able to give US secrets to the Chinese?

is that what you are saying?

a wrong justifies every other wrong by anyone that occurs later.

great logic

[Purveyor]

52. Yeah...it does. Blow-back is a bitch, indeed. eom

[arely staircase]

54. glad we got that straight. it isn't often someone comes right out and

endorses logical fallacies

[Purveyor]

58. And what 'fallacy' would that be...ole wise one? eom

[randome]

22. "I am not here to hide from justice."

Yeah, he's a genius, all right!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Cha]

29. This is too much.. he's also "hasn't been convicted of anything".. he's is a damn

genius. Does he have enough pacifiers?

[alcibiades_mystery]

46. Where are the "WikiLeaks attorneys" and why haven't they advised Mr. Snowden

that revoking the passport of federal fugitives is common procedure at State. How can Mr. Snowden possibly be confused about this simple matter of law when he is surrounded by such stellar legal help as his "WikiLeaks attorneys?"



Farce. Pure, unadulterated farce.

[WillyT]

23. K & R !!!

[kelliekat44]

24. I think Snowden was the first to use "citizenship" as a weapon...against his own government. nt

[Cha]

26. "Citizenship as a weapon"? Is he insane?

Go back and face the music, leaker.. if you're not hiding from Justice.. and quit your damn ignorant whining. You're your own worst enemy, Snowden.

WAH WAH WAH.. What's citizenship got to do with passport? Is he just using flameable words to get his fans frothing? WTF did you think would happen when you went squealing like a stuck pig to China? And, now Russia?

[treestar]

38. Using flammable words to get his fans frothing

That's it exactly and an usual they jump right on, now romanticizing him as a man without a country!

[Cha]

45. poor Snowden.. what a wimp. Trying to blame President Obama for

his fuckups. That sounds just like the rwing whinging about Obama. Of course, fucking libertarians do that too.

[Galraedia]

30. Snowden keeps hopping from one authoritarian country to the next...

Has he found his libertarian paradise yet?

[Purveyor]

31. Oh yes, he could always return the the 'land of the free'. "Free" my ass... eom

[Galraedia]

34. How free is he feeling in Russia now that Putin has told him to shut up?

[Purveyor]

40. About as free as he would be here in the USA but at least he knows that gov't. I thought I did

in regards to ours...

Fail. I voted to flush the toilet on that bullshit but it seems to have been futile as damn little as changed in this regard.

[phleshdef]

91. Oh God, now you are just embarassing yourself.

Russia just practically outlawed talking about homosexuality with fines and jail time. Don't even try to make a fucking comparison between us and Russia. We got our problems, but we are miles beyond that kind of shit. People like you need to actually live under some real hard tyranny for a day to give you some damn perspective.

I'm totally for reigning this NSA shit, way, way, waaaaaay in. But Christ, the hyperbole is just embarrassing.

[treestar]

39. This IS the land of the free

ask the many, including many Chinese and Russians, who would be very happy to take Eddie's citizenship for him.

[Purveyor]

42. LOL, indeed. eom

[Cha]

47. Damn Straight, treestar. How many Chinese and Russians would love to have

Snowden's "citizenship&quot that he isn't losing btw)?

I'm as free as a bird, how about you?

[treestar]

64. I'm not trapped in an airport

How about you?

Really, he'd be "freer" back here in jail.

[Cha]

67. Just as I originally suspected.. Snowden is a whiney snot

nose kid. And, he's fooking pissing me off.

He's fucking with Biden, too..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014524412

[treestar]

68. for all his grand language, he's really doing nothing other than

running from justice. If he's so righteous, he'd come back and face the charges. It's not like this is not a free country in which he could have his lawyer do all sorts of grandstanding at the trial.

The President is simply carrying out the law - that's what Eddie's whining about. He's not being persecuted - he'd have due process.

Which is way more than Pootie Poot would give him if he thought Eddie was messing with Russia's security.

[Cha]

69. Ed doesn't believe in the law. Snowden has a big stage to lie about the Pres and the USA..

and his fans can't wait for the next serving.

Wonder if this has sunk in his brain yet?..

Uh Oh … Ecuador Throws Snowden Under Bus

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2013/07/uh_oh_ecuador_throws_snowden_under_bus.php?ref=fpblg

[newthinking]

75. Actually, Canada is generally preferred

Unless the aim is to get rich, in which we have the best reputation as the place.

[treestar]

32. What an asshole he is

Does he believe what he's saying? This would happen to any fugitive from justice. Doubtless has happened to many before. He thinks he is entitled to break the law without consequences.

[Cha]

48. Sense of entitlement.. like many asshole libertarians.

[still_one]

41. You made your choice,, and it isn't Obama's fault

[Recursion]

51. There is no process by which the govt can end an American's citizenship

Though a citizen can voluntarily renounce it.

[Purveyor]

53. I'm not sure that is still true after the Patriot Act but I'm too tired to confirm. iirc, we

'droned' a few 'former' american citizens only after they stripped them of their citizenship.

Still not sure if this is correct.

[Recursion]

55. Apparently you can be denaturalized if fraud is discovered

But that's more of an annulment than a divorce

[Purveyor]

56. I added to my post after your response. Please see. eom

[Recursion]

57. Huh. I'll ask my consular officer wife...

[Purveyor]

60. OK. I see where you are coming from but do get back with me. eom

[tammywammy]

61. I think they can only revoke citizenship from naturalized citizens

Natural born citizen can renounce their citizenship, but it cannot be taken away.

[struggle4progress]

66. 8 USC § 1481

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1481

[treestar]

70. Look like Poor Eddie can't make himself victim of this even if he wants to be

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years;

Russia won't let him in from the airport. He's pretty far from being able to apply for naturalization in it or any other foreign state.

or
(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

On second thought, he might be able to do this? If he can get a notary to the airport? Though that does not mean the foreign state in question will have him, but at least he could do away with his US citizenship.

(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if
(A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or
(B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or

A foreign army letting him in or commissioning him as office doesn't seem to be in the cards.

(4)
(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or
(B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or

He can't get into a foreign state let along serve it in any office

(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or

How's he gonna get to the consulate?

(6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or

He's not in the United States

(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or or by a court of competent jurisdiction.

Hasn't been charged with any of that.

[struggle4progress]

72. Yup: looks like he's gotta renounce his citizenship himself before he whines about being stateless

OTOH, his PoV could be the result of him getting craptastic legal advice from the usual Assangist lawyers, who have sometimes shown great creativity in their legal theories -- a recent one being that Assange, who jumped bail to seek refuge in the embassy because extradition to Sweden supposedly would result in him being sent to Guantanamo for torture and execution, now could no longer dare to leave the embassy even if the Swedes dropped their extradition case, apparently because the UK also now wants to send him to Guantanamo for torture and execution -- though to judge from the recent noises coming from Ecuador, Mr Assange may be tempting the Ecuadorians to fly him to Guantanamo themselves if they can't find any other way to get him out of the embassy

[treestar]

73. LOL

I think the Ecuadorians are regretting their overly generous asylum law. It's a wonder they are not overrun with requests from every person under indictment for a crime in any country. The one asylee they have is costing them quite a bit of trouble.

[gholtron]

59. I didn't know stealing classified information and government

Notebook computers were a basic right. I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure it isn't

[Purveyor]

62. And I don't see spying and collecting everyday data on US citizens a 'basic right' of our gov't. eom

[Renew Deal]

71. Isn't he a fugitive?

He can turn himself in.

[MADem]

76. Waaaah...waaaaah! Snowden: Using classified material that he swore to keep safe as a weapon!

And apparently Snowden doesn't quite grasp the difference between citizenship and a valid passport.

He's still a US citizen....he's just one in big fucking trouble right about now.

That's like crying that the cops are being unfair and are using driving privileges as a weapon, having taken away his license because he won't stop driving drunk!

Come back and answer the charges, Eddie...if you dare!

[NCTraveler]

83. This guy is a jackass.

I would really like to see as many posts about what has been revealed as I have seen about him being a hero or traitor. I have let it be known what I think of him personally. What is important is what has been revealed. I still don't think I have seen anything revealed that wasn't already known.

[hack89]

85. Maybe President Assange can get him another set of travel documents. nt