Don't fall for the fake European outrage. France conducts widespread espionage against its allies.

[Cali_Democrat]

I'm sure Germany is also doing the same thing. Remember this?

FRANCE is the country that conducts the most industrial espionage on other European countries, even ahead of China and Russia, said leaked US diplomatic cables quoted today by Norway's Aftenposten.

"French espionage is so widespread that the damages (it causes) the German economy are larger as a whole than those caused by China or Russia," an undated note from the US embassy in Berlin said, according to a Norwegian translation by Aftenposten.

The Norwegian daily of reference said last month it had obtained all the 250,000 US diplomatic cables WikiLeaks had accessed and would publish stories based on them independently of the whistleblowing website's own releases.

Its article based on leaked cables included an October 2009 comment from Berry Smutny, the head of German satellite company OHB Technology, quoted in the diplomatic note.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/france-heads-industrial-espionage-wikileaks-cables/story-e6frf7jx-1225982019775

The notion that the United States is the only country to conduct espionage is rather humorous. Is it wrong? Well that's for individuals to decide, but spying against other countries is nothing new.

I read a post here saying we are "in deep shit" with our European allies. Publicly the Europeans will express outrage, but privately they will likely shrug their shoulders.

Once again Snowden revealed nothing new. All he revealed was the fact that spy agencies are spying.

[still_one]

1. They all do

[sibelian]

3. Welllll, they shouldn't.

Should they?

[Cali_Democrat]

8. It's interesting

I don't recall Obama or European leaders declaring the intentions to ban spy agencies.

When it is revealed that spy agencies are spying, people act outraged.

Should the CIA be abolished in your opinion?

[still_one]

10. Countries should do what is in their own best interest. The debate is what one

Thinks is in a country's own interest, someone else may disagree

[newthinking]

15. Industrial espionage -

This is quite different than spying on their own people.

Industrial espionage, economic espionage or corporate espionage is a form of espionage conducted for commercial purposes instead of purely national security purposes. Economic espionage is conducted or orchestrated by governments and is international in scope, while industrial or corporate espionage is more often national and occurs between companies or corporations.[1]

[Nevernose]

2. It bothers me that Americans are being illegally spied on

(And by illegal, I mean unconstitutional)

It doesn't bother me in the least that we spy on other countries. They're spying on us just as much. I do find the mock outrage to be amusing.

[Hekate]

4. Gosh. Another reality check. Too bad they bounce, around these parts. KnRnThanks

Spy agencies are spying. >sigh< It's what they do. It's a polite fiction among friendly nations that they aren't peeking in each others' windows and drawers, and it's ludicrous for anyone to imagine that unfriendly nations are not full-on spying on us and we on them.

Has anyone here claimed today that Russia and China are our "allies"? That one always gives me a good laugh.

[HiPointDem]

17. countries spy on each other, corporations spy on each other. but governments aren't

supposed to routinely spy on their own people. at least 'democratic' governments.

[Hekate]

20. It's the internal spying I would take exception to

Yes

[BenzoDia]

5. Good find.

[Number23]

6. I don't think the outrage is entirely fake. I think it is real to an extent

For all we know, the info that Snowden has spread may have contained a surprise or two to our allies in Europe and it certainly contained surprises to the citizens of those countries. And even if the governments were aware of everything that was going on, if they wish to remain in power, they would definitely have to appear outraged to their constituents.

Only a naive fool would believe that other countries don't engage in this behavior, EVEN AMONG ALLIES. And not only do they spy on each other, they use each other's spying technology and information gleaned from spying for their own spying purposes.

So I'm a bit on the fence. I agree with you in large part on the shrugged shoulders but I'm willing to bet that they're still reading each word of the released information and eagerly awaiting the next spills.

[Whisp]

7. and China - their GhostNet was targeting Tibet.

this idea that the U.S. is the only baddie in this department is nonsense. Anyone who is over 7 years old should know this game has been going on since the beginning of history.

Technology is making it creepier, is all. but I find all the 'social media' crap even creepier.

[HiPointDem]

18. the outrage is about the government spying on its people, not about the government spying

on france.

[ProSense]

9. Anyone who doesn't

see this faux outrage as trying to gain a PR advantage in upcoming trade talks isn't seeing clearly.

[ohheckyeah]

11. 26 senators disagree with

"Once again Snowden revealed nothing new. All he revealed was the fact that spy agencies are spying."

"In their strongly-worded letter to Clapper, the senators said they believed the government may be misinterpreting existing legislation to justify the sweeping collection of telephone and internet data revealed by the Guardian. "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3142617

[DirkGently]

12. And Germany too. And the EU. All liars, except for the good ole' NSA.

At some point, when it appears that everyone around you sees something wrong that you don't see, it might be worth considerring the possibility that it is YOU who do not see.

[newthinking]

13. Note: *Industrial espionage* that is a different kind

Unless the term has changed. I also doubt this is state espionage, but rather they have a problem with bad actors from France.

But hey, if it makes you feel better, don't read the fine print....

[The Straight Story]

14. And don't fall for the US's outrage when it's citizens do what it does (nt)

[newthinking]

16. Interesting - This is not news, just see wikipedia

This has been the case for apparently 30 years.
And it is industrial espionage.

I have to wonder why, as this un-revelational revelation is from 2009, it is hitting the press in a big way now??
Coincidence?

[Fire Walk With Me]

19. That means it's all right when the US does it! It's all a plot to take down Obama!