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HipChick

(25,485 posts)
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:24 PM Jul 2013

Snowden speaks..or maybe not..

Last edited Tue Jul 2, 2013, 12:13 AM - Edit history (1)


**UPDATED**
Within minutes of Edward Snowden releasing his first statement after eight days of silence, published on Wikileaks’ website, a number of journalists and others noticed something strange.

The language in the statement, between accusations that the Obama administration was employing “political aggression” and feared “an informed, angry public,” seemed to betray a tinge of non-American English. It was this line that first jumped out: “For decades the United States of America have been one of the strongest defenders of the human right to seek asylum.” As Slate’s Farhad Manjoo pointed out on Twitter, Americans refer to the United States as singular, rather than plural: one would expect Snowden, an American, to write “the United States of America has been.”

Alone, that wouldn’t seem to say much. But there were other details, such as the date on the letter, appended as “1st July 2013? rather than the typical American style. But maybe most eyebrow-raising of all is the statement’s fiery tone and dramatic cadence. “Without any judicial order, the administration now seeks to stop me exercising a basic right. A right that belongs to everybody. The right to seek asylum,” the statement reads, a far cry from the straightforward, plainspoken voice Snowden has used in all other public comments.

The statement’s tone and word choice seems conspicuously similar to that of Julian Assange, the Australian and Wikileaks chief who has developed a reputation for his extremely distinctive writing style.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/07/01/some-see-julian-assanges-hand-in-new-snowden-statement/
49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Snowden speaks..or maybe not.. (Original Post) HipChick Jul 2013 OP
Thank You Comrade!!! Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #1
you vant perogy? Whisp Jul 2013 #2
Thanks, but no thanks!!! Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #15
What year do you think it is? DesMoinesDem Jul 2013 #3
You are so bad!!! Now you're gonna make 'em really, REALLY mad at ya! Number23 Jul 2013 #21
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(eleven) dionysus Jul 2013 #24
So when did they let you out of FR? brentspeak Jul 2013 #26
Jeez dude, just come back to the U.S. already and state your case in court. JaneyVee Jul 2013 #4
Aren't you paying attention? reusrename Jul 2013 #19
Huh? He will have a lawyer and due process. Which by the way would be the best way to JaneyVee Jul 2013 #20
Exactly - the debate the President said we NEED to have CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #23
At this point, by him running is withholding the debate. This will only change by legislation, JaneyVee Jul 2013 #28
You do know what a gag order is, don't you? reusrename Jul 2013 #34
His running has nothing to do with the debate. Pres Obama said we need the debate. rhett o rick Jul 2013 #45
'Leaker'. Not whistleblower. randome Jul 2013 #46
As if the designation is all important. To hell with the power points. I doubt they rhett o rick Jul 2013 #49
"the extralegal penalty of exile" alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #5
His US law advice must be coming from Julian treestar Jul 2013 #31
... SidDithers Jul 2013 #6
If Snowden was named in a Federal warrant, then State can revoke his passport. JaneyVee Jul 2013 #7
Surely the "WikiLeaks attorneys" would have advised Boy Genius of this common procedure alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #9
Here Eddie... climb on... lamp_shade Jul 2013 #8
The reactions here are funny at times nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #10
Some make me wonder if they are truly "politically liberal". nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #14
More like afraid nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #17
Afraid? Of what? CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #25
You need to let these senators know since they seem to be in the dark. Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #30
Afraid of the myth disappearing nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #32
They just like to get in line and march. morningfog Jul 2013 #43
When war with North Korea starts treestar Jul 2013 #29
That statement is bizarre for several reasons, ProSense Jul 2013 #11
Obama, Obama, Obama. Scurrilous Jul 2013 #12
k&r thanks for posting. I see the haters are here in force. Snowden upset their denial bubbles. nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #13
He's whining about not having a passport. I think he's the one in "denial." ProSense Jul 2013 #18
K&R, good to see this posted without commentary and in a neutral manner quinnox Jul 2013 #16
Not really..fuck Snowden.. HipChick Jul 2013 #35
Did Edward Snowden Really Write This Wikileaks Statement? Scurrilous Jul 2013 #22
good catches treestar Jul 2013 #37
She is... HipChick Jul 2013 #39
Yep, a lawyer might think of that treestar Jul 2013 #40
Not at all, considering the work he did, it's probably the date format he's used to; see below. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2013 #44
The Unabomber called. gulliver Jul 2013 #27
He's even writing like a Russian now railsback Jul 2013 #33
sounds like Assange's sock puppet now.. HipChick Jul 2013 #36
Or, always was King Julian's sock puppet. railsback Jul 2013 #38
Aussies also write has and not have for the US malaise Jul 2013 #41
That was either written or revised by someone from the UK (or Australia, or New Zealand). Spider Jerusalem Jul 2013 #42
Maybe Snowden talked to Assange on the phone, and then Assange paraphrased. NT Eric J in MN Jul 2013 #47
"And I would have gotten away with it, too..." randome Jul 2013 #48

Tarheel_Dem

(31,234 posts)
15. Thanks, but no thanks!!!
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 07:18 PM
Jul 2013


“Given the fact that he feels that he is a human-rights defender, he is unlikely to stop such work, so that is why he should choose a country of destination and go there,” Putin said yesterday. “When that will happen, unfortunately, I don’t know.”


No rest for the weary!

Number23

(24,544 posts)
21. You are so bad!!! Now you're gonna make 'em really, REALLY mad at ya!
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 10:25 PM
Jul 2013


((My prediction: Several very sensitive, delicate souls will put you on ignore after that post. And you will give nary a fuck.))
 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
4. Jeez dude, just come back to the U.S. already and state your case in court.
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:32 PM
Jul 2013

THAT would get alot more exposure than running.

 

reusrename

(1,716 posts)
19. Aren't you paying attention?
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 07:51 PM
Jul 2013

How is he supposed to speak after he's gagged?

Incredible.

Pathetic, really.

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
20. Huh? He will have a lawyer and due process. Which by the way would be the best way to
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 10:17 PM
Jul 2013

expose this. Imagine he gets a lawyer to directly make a case for the NSAs actions being unconstitutional. THIS is the debate.

CakeGrrl

(10,611 posts)
23. Exactly - the debate the President said we NEED to have
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:27 PM
Jul 2013

..but this showboater is too busy saying all the right buzzwords to whip of the fear of his safety. He's not really interested in maximizing coverage of the NSA, IMO.

It's just a load of bullshit to avoid facing the prospect of prison time.

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
28. At this point, by him running is withholding the debate. This will only change by legislation,
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:30 PM
Jul 2013

and the fastest way to change legislation such as this would be in court. Hearing the legalities or illegalities of it would clear up alot of confusion and over-the-top hyperbole.

 

reusrename

(1,716 posts)
34. You do know what a gag order is, don't you?
Tue Jul 2, 2013, 12:06 AM
Jul 2013

He could speak out just like all those other political prisoners, right?

This really is pathetic beyond belief.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
45. His running has nothing to do with the debate. Pres Obama said we need the debate.
Tue Jul 2, 2013, 10:57 AM
Jul 2013

The Pres would be a good one to start the debate. We can interview the whistle-blower better if he isnt being held incommunicado in a max security prison. Those that want all attention on the whistle-blowers, or in this case, whistle-blowers, journalists, open-minded Congress people, want to limit the debate by bully those that are interested in transparency and further investigations.

It is terribly naive to believe that the spy agencies dont step over the line, especially if they can rationalize that it's legal.

Open-minded, politically liberal people should want to find out what is going on and not sweep it under the rug.

How many whistle-blowers, investigative journalists, liberal Congress people, will it take before you agree there just might be a problem?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
46. 'Leaker'. Not whistleblower.
Tue Jul 2, 2013, 11:00 AM
Jul 2013

How many more PowerPoint slides will we need to wade through?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font]
[hr]

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
49. As if the designation is all important. To hell with the power points. I doubt they
Tue Jul 2, 2013, 01:25 PM
Jul 2013

tell the whole story anyway. They are of course made to show adherence to the law. We need to investigate exactly what they are doing. Clapper admitted that there was a "library" of data available. Just because they dont read every bit doesnt change the fact that their surveillance captured it all. Perfect tool to be abused if in the hands of the wrong people, like Republicans.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
5. "the extralegal penalty of exile"
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:33 PM
Jul 2013

Huh?

"Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport..."

Is this guy fucking stupid or something? Welcome to being formally charged with a felony. Nearly everyone released on bail (pre-conviction) relinquishes his or her passport. Did he expect the US government to continue the passport of a wanted fugitive known to be traveling abroad? Whether we agree with the charges or not, it is a simple fact that this man is wanted to face felony charges, and is known to be abroad. I'm not sure why he thinks he's received some special kind of action with respect to his passport. He is free to return to face the charges, or to apply for asylum, or to stay put, but why should the US grant him passport indulgence that allows him to continue his evasion of legal proceedings against him? What a bizarre statement.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
31. His US law advice must be coming from Julian
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:33 PM
Jul 2013

It's so astounding that he undertook all he did ignorant of the very things he's complaining about.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
9. Surely the "WikiLeaks attorneys" would have advised Boy Genius of this common procedure
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:39 PM
Jul 2013

"unilaterally revoked..."

So, let me get this straight...the State Department revoked the passport of somebody charged with a fedeal felony known to be traveling abroad? Get outta here! They can do that?



Astonishing.

(Sarcasm tag not needed...)

CakeGrrl

(10,611 posts)
25. Afraid? Of what?
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:29 PM
Jul 2013

You know who's afraid?

People who feel an overwhelming need to cultivate ignore lists.

There are some whack opinions here, in my view, but I ignore no one.

But some people cannot bear to lay eyes on what I post.

THAT is fear.

What do you think people who doubt Snowden's motives are afraid of? He exposed NOTHING that wasn't in existence a week, a month, a year before he decided to steal documents and hightail it to Hong Kong.

The only people I see expressing fear are those who find it "chilling" that some people here can possibly disagree with the world according to Snowden - based NOT on fact, but the positing of a possibility.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
32. Afraid of the myth disappearing
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:34 PM
Jul 2013

Last edited Tue Jul 2, 2013, 12:09 AM - Edit history (1)

Also you might want to ask 26 sitting United States Senators.

Oh and forgt, ask the President of the AP to fill you in over that chilling effect.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
11. That statement is bizarre for several reasons,
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:55 PM
Jul 2013

including:

1) He's whining about his passport being revoked? LOL!

2) Did he issue it before he applied to Russia for asylum. If so, is he snubbing Putin?

3) Greenwald tweeted that it's not up to Snowden:

NOTE: Snowden's leak is basically done. It's newspapers - not Snowden - deciding what gets disclosed and in what sequence.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/351730381478821888

Then there is this quote from a letter to Ecuadorian President Correa:

<...>

Update 5:52 p.m.: Reuters has now added quotes from Snowden's letter to President Rafael Correa of Ecuador.

"No matter how many more days my life contains, I remain dedicated to the fight for justice in this unequal world. If any of those days ahead realize a contribution to the common good, the world will have the principles of Ecuador to thank," the letter reads, according to Reuters' translation from the original Spanish.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/report-edward-snowden-breaks-silence

Does Snowden realize that the document was unauthorized and it pissed off Correa?

Ecuador cools on Edward Snowden asylum as Assange frustration grows
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023119831

Assange stands by Edward Snowden as Ecuador's Correa reprimands consul
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023134665

Ecuadoran President Correa Gives VP Biden An Earful
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023130093

Scurrilous

(38,687 posts)
12. Obama, Obama, Obama.
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 07:09 PM
Jul 2013

@#$% you pal.

The Obama administration isn't afraid of me. They're my pals. I get more emails from them than from my family.

Snowden's prose and tenor has improved tremendously since his 'TheTrueHOOHA' days.

Hmmmmm, I wonder whose mommy wrote this for him.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
18. He's whining about not having a passport. I think he's the one in "denial."
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 07:46 PM
Jul 2013

At this point he sounds like a fool.

HipChick

(25,485 posts)
35. Not really..fuck Snowden..
Tue Jul 2, 2013, 12:11 AM
Jul 2013

I don't believe he wrote this himself...sounds like non-American English..He didn't write it...people are so easily fooled.

Scurrilous

(38,687 posts)
22. Did Edward Snowden Really Write This Wikileaks Statement?
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:22 PM
Jul 2013

<snip>

"On the same day Russian President Vladimir Putin announced his nation would not hand over NSA leaker Edward Snowden, Snowden, who remains ensconced in Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport, has allegedly released a statement of his own—but not everybody is buying it.

A brief communiqué—put out via Wikileaks, of course—attacks the Obama administration for its persistent attempts to get Snowden back in the U.S. and charge him with espionage. The name signed to the missive is "Edward Joseph Snowden," but skeptics on Twitter immediately began questioning the message's veracity.


Farhad Manjoo ✔ @fmanjoo
Did Edward Snowden really write this? No American would use plural verbs for America -- the United States "have been" http://fm4.fm/17PyVGy
Olga Khazan @olgakhazan

@fmanjoo Yeah ... also, what American writes dates as "1st July 2013"?
6:18 PM - 1 Jul 2013
15 RETWEETS 6 FAVORITES ReplyRetweet


http://gawker.com/did-edward-snowden-really-write-this-wikileaks-statemen-639789021

HipChick

(25,485 posts)
39. She is...
Tue Jul 2, 2013, 03:18 AM
Jul 2013

but I'm British, and with him being 'technical' it would odd for him to accept the date time format so quickly..

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
42. That was either written or revised by someone from the UK (or Australia, or New Zealand).
Tue Jul 2, 2013, 08:08 AM
Jul 2013

Collective nouns usually take a plural verb in British English ("Manchester United are expected to do well against Arsenal", as an example). Australian rules for collective nouns seem to be kind of...fuzzy.

Although as to the date format, it's "1 July", not "1st July". This date format is standard for military correspondence and for correspondence within national security agencies (see for instance the examples below).



 

randome

(34,845 posts)
48. "And I would have gotten away with it, too..."
Tue Jul 2, 2013, 11:04 AM
Jul 2013

"...if it weren't for those pesky laws!'

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font]
[hr]

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