I am Edward Snowden

[warrprayer]

We are all Snowden now.

<snip>

"To allow the lynching of Edward Snowden is to give the power elites carte blanche to disappear any of us whom they deem an embarrassment to them or otherwise to threaten their power and status.

If we now are going allow the mere embarrassment of the power elites and/or the challenge to the power elites’ power (such as by pointing out their crimes, such as their blatant violations of our constitutional protections) to be classified as a “crime,” then we might as well wrap up the American experiment right now and call it a Colossal Fucking Failure, and let’s just go full-blown already into the nightmare state that George Orwell dreamed of, the nightmare state in which all of us are monitored 24/7 and which any of us can be disappeared at any time by the power elite at their whim.

This is some serious shit, folks."


http://virtualsoapbox.wordpress.com/2013/06/24/im-rooting-for-underdog-snowden-in-his-fight-against-the-wolves/

<snip>

[el_bryanto]

1. Well we don't really know what would have happened to Snowden if he had stayed in the states

do we? Also how are we supposed to stop Snowden from being disappeared?

Bryant

[warrprayer]

6. (sigh)

As has been pointed out a million times, he had a pretty good idea of what to expect from Bradley Manning's treatment. I will add that so called "democratic" Ecuador's capitulation, as well as Hong Kong and Russia, pretty much spells it out that nobody is beyond the reach of these bastards anymore.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

82. Huh?

He would've been arrested, possibly locked up, and stand trial for his alleged crimes. What country is this again? It ain't perfect but we're a long way from being a totalitarian state, right?

[Dustlawyer]

144. Right now we are a Facist state with a shadow government

that controls the politicians through campaign donations and other benefits/threats!

[maindawg]

153. I have to agree

it seems that we are like the frog in the pot.
I have to admit, I do not understand what Ed Snowden is doing, but it does not look like he really thought this thing through. I think he should shock the world and become a hero by simply coming back to America, and challenging the justice department. I am sure he would get the very best attorney and advice. I would think his problem though , is the documents. He has to return them.
I mean, we are talking about some kind of permanent ruling body who's identity is unknown.. One that operates in broad daylight. As if the billionaires were those people. Are these the ones we do not speak of ? Did Ed Snowden steal their master plan ?
And if so, do these people who we do not speak of have a rival ?

[gholtron]

156. Oh give me a break. He stole classified documents and

multiple notebook computers from the government. I think they want it back.

[aquart]

192. I'm sure there are scads of Facists on Facebook.

Where would the Fascists be, do you think?

[sabrina 1]

133. Yes we do know. We saw the treatment of Bradley Manning, tortured and kept from speaking to anyone

and we know the result of his trial before it happens. From now on, Whistle Blowers will most likely take the same path as dissidents from other countries have when their nations have tortured and silenced them, seek asylum elsewhere.

That is why Crowley finally spoke out about the 'stupidity' of treating Manning the way they did. It made it clear that no Whistle Blower is safe here anymore.

[treestar]

140. He'd have been arrested

possibly out on bail awaiting trial on the three charges of theft, defense information transmittal and disclosure of classified information.

[bobclark86]

143. yeah...

When pigs fly out of my butt... He'd be in solitary, being denied his civil rights and everyone would cheer. Ooh, and waterboarded, because being taken to the brink of drowning can't possibly be torture...

[treestar]

148. Baloney

His fans need to quit making such a pitiful victim of their hero. He would have due process. End up in solitary only if behavior in jail led to it.

[bobclark86]

176. Bullshit.

Just like the men still at Guantanamo? Just like Osama bin Laden? Just like Bradley Manning? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Bull-fucking-shit on that.

[treestar]

183. Has he been found in Afghanistan?

No. You feel bad for Osama bin Laden? He is a civilian so he would not be court martialed like Manning. And you exaggerate re Manning, he is being tried as anyone in his posiition would be, has counsel, due process as defined for military.

[bobclark86]

186. Wow.

Let's dissect that post:

1) It's OK to deny people their rights because we illegally invaded their country and they got understandably pissed off about it.

2) It's OK to bust into someone's home at night and kill them because we said they gave some money to some guys who gave it to some guys who crashed some airplanes.

3) It's OK to torture someone and deny them access to a lawyer because they're in the military. Because torture is defined as due process by the military, too.

What's next, you're going to say the Japanese-American internment during World War II was justified?

[treestar]

187. Wow.

You do not know how to debate. Quit putting words in my mouth. You are not debating in good faith.

Snowden would have due process here to face the charges against him. Why do you twist yourself into pretzels to avoid this for him?

[aquart]

191. Please provide links to waterboarding on American soil.

Unless you pulled this persecution fantasy out of your butt.

[bobclark86]

193. Ah, so it IS OK to waterboard...

just not in 'murica, right?

[aquart]

194. So NO links to torture on American soil.

Just hysterical, screeching fantasy.

We KNOW torture occurred in other countries. Assuming approval is, again, screeching, unfounded hysteria.

And you weren't talking about torture elsewhere. YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT TORTURE HERE.

All I did was ask for a factual basis. Links. A link. You have none.

Just screeching.

[cyclezealot]

154. Yes, we do : ask Thomas Drake.

as the case against Whistle Blower's Thomas Drake and Daniel Ellsberg collapsed, so should the case against Snowden..

Advice for Snowden from a man who knows: 'Always check six'

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/11/us-usa-security-nsa-drake-idUSBRE95A12X20130611



http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/18/inside_obamas_orwellian_world_where_whistleblowing

.
.http://www.thenation.com/article/161376/government-case-against-whistleblower-thomas-drake-collapses#axzz2Xm5FJZkm

[obxhead]

165. Yes,

There is clearly a long and detailed history of "whistle blowers" being treated fairly and humanely under US law while on US soil.

I just don't get it, why didn't he do this from home soil?

[blue neen]

2. No, we are not all Edward Snowden.

n/t.

[BlueCaliDem]

46. I sure as hell ain't.

n/t

[Catherina]

128. Well, everyone wasn't Spartacus either. Not all had the courage. n/t

[Kahuna]

180. Yeah, takes a lot of courage to try to destroy America's relationships

with our allies, and release our secrets to our foes.

[wtmusic]

189. Of course it does

regardless of his motives.

[Gothmog]

160. The OP was over the top

I am not Snowden. I did not take a job with the express intent of gathering and misappropriating information. He has no inherent right to a passport and the US govt can revoke such document at any time. The US govt. does not have to make it easy for Snowden to defect or to turn over damaging information to foreign governments.

I really do not think that Snowden is a saint. The whining in the last release is weak and sad.

[Whisp]

3. Good for you, I'm not.

If I decide to 'be' somebody else, it won't be a putz like Snowden.

[msanthrope]

4. How disgusting...comparing Edward Snowden to victims of lynching. nt

[warrprayer]

8. how disgusting

trying to use racial semantics to change the subject

[msanthrope]

13. You post an OP claiming 'lynching' but you don't want to take responsibility

for the language used?

Edward Snowden is being lynched?

[warrprayer]

50. see post 39

and goodbye

[cyclezealot]

164. He is , or would have been.

Edward Snowden’s Long Flight
What a Whistleblower Thinks a Fellow Whistleblower Might Have Thought


I Am Afraid

Whistleblowers act on conscience because they encounter something so horrifying, unconstitutional, wasteful, fraudulent, or mismanaged that they are overcome by the need to speak out. There is always a calculus of pain and gain (for others, if not oneself), but first thoughts are about what you’ve uncovered, the information you feel compelled to bring into the light, rather than your own circumstances.

In my case, I was ignorant of what would happen once I blew the whistle. I didn’t expect the Department of State to attack me. National Security Agency (NSA) whistleblower Tom Drake was similarly unprepared. He initially believed that, when the FBI first came to interview him, they were on his side, eager to learn more about the criminal acts he had uncovered at the NSA. Snowden was different in this. He had the example of Bradley Manning and others to learn from. He clearly never doubted that the full weight of the U.S. government would fall on him.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/175719/

[SidDithers]

14. +1...nt

Sid

[msanthrope]

23. Remember, Sid...it's not about Eric Snowden. It's about Spartacus, now. nt

[tallahasseedem]

5. I'm not Edward Snowden...

and resent the implication that he stands for us all.

[Gregorian]

7. I get the message, regardless of how it's said. I'm pro-American dream.

I'm for what we fought to create this country. I'm against what George Bush, and King George wanted to do.

[warrprayer]

9. it's amazing

how many here on D.U. are actually defending totalitarianism. (not you - I mean the ones who keep telling us the violation of the fourth amendment is "legal&quot

[emulatorloo]

25. Skepticism about Snowden's claims does not equal "defending totalitarianism"

Do I believe him when he says an IT guy can wiretap Obama? No. Other things don't add up either

You can claim I'm just like Hitler until you are blue in the face, but that reflects poorly on you.

[Maedhros]

149. There are a number of posters who go beyond skepticism

and directly into mocking and denigrating anyone who is concerned about the surveillance program.

Mocking is neither constructive nor appropriate. We're talking about core principles of the U.S. Constitution. It's okay to disagree, but the vitriol spewed by some of the pro-surveillance posters degrades the conversation. It's unsurprising that others respond in kind. Not ideal, of course, but unsurprising.

[Douglas Carpenter]

10. It is rather breathtaking how when anyone challenges the clandestine apparatus- how quickly and how

obediently authoritarianisms apologist snap into action

[CakeGrrl]

15. You mean like this?

Whew, that felt really authoritarian!

Whatevs to your angry name calling. Go DO something about it.

[Douglas Carpenter]

24. yep if everyone would just obey the law then authority will nice to the people

[CakeGrrl]

38. MLK and Rosa Parks knew better about authority and DEALT with it.

Others apparently cannot.

[Douglas Carpenter]

58. no one would even be questioning the direction the country is taking with an ever increasing

surveillance and intelligences network and surveillance industrial complex if it wasn't for Edward Snowden leaking this material - whoever he is - however popular or unpopular - whether he is a nice guy or sad loner - none of that matters - The fact is without his actions - the Intelligence Industrial Complex would continue to secretively grow more and more powerful - without the slightest scrutiny from the public or even the political class

[orpupilofnature57]

92. Checks & Balances are what They've deleted ....

Many people in Washington offices being evacuated months after 9/11, or the telephone communication trucks at local law enforcement facilities in 2006 . NWO isn't new, it's just been temporarily inconvenienced .

[backscatter712]

118. Tell that to...

MLK Jr.
Mahatma Gandhi
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Daniel Ellsberg
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
Henry David Thoreau
Sojourner Truth
Harriet Tubman
Frederick Douglass
Emma Goldman
Socrates
Jesus Christ

[blue neen]

19. Excuse me.

Just exactly who in this thread are you calling an idiot?

Feel free to name names.

[blue neen]

33. Still waiting.

[woo me with science]

35. Psst. You need to look up "useful idiot."

It has a political meaning.

[blue neen]

40. I don't care if it has a political meaning.

No one should be called an idiot of ANY type on this board because we don't happen to agree with the OP.

I'm not a propagandist of any type. I make up my own mind about issues, and in fact have mixed ones about NSA.

[woo me with science]

45. Oh, my word.

[blue neen]

52. "Oh, my word" What?

What's the problem?

[Number23]

142. I honestly think that "the problem" for some is that you are thinking for yourself

instead of sucking up the rapidly dissipating Snowden magic that some here are swallowing whole and trying to shovel down the throats of everyone else.

[blue neen]

172. I believe that you are quite correct!

[CakeGrrl]

47. Agree. That's some sneaky b.s. to get namecalling under the radar.

[blue neen]

63. Yeah, notice how it suddenly got changed.

Meanwhile, the poster is accusing others of being "obedient".

[backscatter712]

122. *PLONK*

This is the correct way to deal with authoritarian baiting and shit-stirring.

Welcome to ignore.

[blue neen]

170. Oh noes! Not that!

I'm crushed!

Before I go cry my eyes out, remember this:

You put someone on ignore for simply disagreeing with OP and for questioning the posters who did the name-calling. I'm so sorry to say, but THAT is what seems authoritarian.

With friends like you, Snowden doesn't need enemies. You are pushing open-minded people away from his cause.

Good luck.

[warrprayer]

69. thanks for posting on this thread

I appreciate and value your opinion and certainly would never call you a name.

[blue neen]

171. Thank you.

n/t.

[Douglas Carpenter]

36. those who refliexively and obediently join the mob to silence anyone who sheds light on the reality

of the clandestine services. After more than a week of endless name calling (paulbots, freepers, trolls,, etc. ect,) against everyone and anyone standing up for liberal and democratic values - I don't think we need to hear ANY complaints about name calling,

[blue neen]

48. Sorry, not good enough.

You made a broadbrush smear against people who may have legitimate questions about Edward Snowden, and who are not part of any "mob". "Idiots". Yeah, that's real cool.

There are many on this board who have called no one names, who are trying to make up their own minds. However, it's people like you who will turn us away, so keep up the good work.

"I don't (sp) think we need to hear ANY complaints about name calling". Well, who is being authoritarian now?

[Douglas Carpenter]

67. it is not a smear - it is the truth. People obediently and relfexively snap into action when someone

challenges the power of the clandestine services. That is a fact. And now those who defend liberal and democratic values are the bad guys.

[blue neen]

89. So, calling people on this thread "idiots" is not a smear. Sure.

Again, please name the names of those of us who "obediently and reflexively" snapped into action.

[Douglas Carpenter]

94. I don't need to name names. Their names are printed at the top of their posts for everyone to see

[blue neen]

103. So, does that include everyone who didn't agree with the OP?

Please be more specific, because I sure as heck don't know who you're talking about.

[Douglas Carpenter]

105. no I wouldn't say that

[emulatorloo]

114. Skepticism about Snowden does not equal " defending totalitarianism"

as I said up thread. I would wager all of us want to get to the bottom of the NSA mess and see the need to get rid of the Patriot Act.

So I don't think you can make the broad generalizations you are making. I'd much rather DU start addressing where we go from here, rather than seeing who or who doesn't pass some bizarre Snowden Loyalty test.

[Douglas Carpenter]

120. where we go from here - it to bring the Intelligence Industrial Complex under control. But no one

would be talking about this or thinking about bringing the intelligence services under control - without the Snowden revelations - whoever he is and whatever his motivations and whatever his character or wherever he goes in the future. I didn't even pay attention to the person of Snowden himself until I kept coming across attempt after attempt to make him the sole issue along with endless name calling against anyone who was paying attention to what he had revealed. Someone that vilified by people who don't want any discussion about the power of the clandestine services cannot be all bad.

[emulatorloo]

132. I am hoping the discussion will begin to shift soon

The sooner the lionizing/vilification of Snowden stops, the better. To me he is neither "hero" nor "traitor," and we are being divided for no good reason.

What I want is a thourough investigation, gonna take a lot of activism to get that. The last few days i have been trying to think what that is going to look like. There are some politicians who will be for that I think. Going to be a long haul.

[sibelian]

151. Don't hold your breath. nt

[warrprayer]

59. they called me a Libertine!

[woo me with science]

75. The swarm is out and trying to bait arguments to fill the thread with garbage.

Always an indication of an important thread.

As Greenwald said in the speech Catherina posted, "courage is contagious," and that is why the PTB are so terrified of messages like the one in this OP. Snowden MUST be smeared, mocked, and silenced.

It is no accident that those flinging mud here are the very same posters who reliably defend every corporate assault coming out of this administration.

[sibelian]

146. +1

[woo me with science]

32. I said it before, and I'll say it again.

If anyone doubted before how creepy and authoritarian our government has become under corporate rule, the relentless, lying, smearing Orwellian propaganda assaults of the past few weeks, here and across the internet, have certainly changed that.

States that build surveillance infrastructures also build propaganda infrastructures. Every single American should be chilled and horrified by the scope and depth and relentlessness of the smear machine against critics of the state.

[CakeGrrl]

44. Smear machine? This guy has shot his own credibility to hell.

Not bright, peddling information to foreign countries. He didn't do his credibility any favors by claiming to steal data to expose a clampdown on freedom, then go to the likes of CHINA and RUSSIA to tell them what the U.S. is doing.

When PUTIN tells you to knock off the leaking, that says something.

[BlueCaliDem]

56. This seems to fly right over the heads of the rabid

rabble that's convened on this site and who support a sell-out and international pariah like Snowden; that even Putin, an ex-KGB agent and current dictator of Russia, is telling Snowden to knock off the leaking.

[alarimer]

145. Our government is spying on us and all you can do is shoot the messenger?

You must love strip-searches. Or being asked for your papers.

I cannot believe how many people are MISSING THE FUCKING POINT.

Our government is authoritarian and undemocratic and all you care about is calling this guy names.

Seig Heil, y'all.

[CakeGrrl]

150. "Spying on us"

Snowden did nothing except draw attention to the prerequisites for collecting information on NON-AMERICANS and the steps that are taken to LIMIT use of data on Americans, including removing the identity of the individual who is not the target of an investigation.

If you choose to believe the "We have the potential, so it COULD happen" line is equivalent to "OUR GOVERNMENT IS SPYING ON US", that's on you.

But "shooting the messenger?" He did more than send a friendly, heroic message. And that's why he's running.

Calling him names? Handing classified data to foreign countries to aid in actions that may harm U.S. citizens? Sorry, that makes one a traitor.

Stealing data? Sorry, that makes him criminal.

Evading the consequences of breaking the law when you took a job and TOLD the Chinese you did so to steal data? Call that what you will.

[tallahasseedem]

155. +1

Amazing response!

[Tarheel_Dem]

173. And there it is!!!! BAM!

[Bobbie Jo]

190. Nailed it. nt

[warrprayer]

60. what scares me

is how quickly other powers folded to the U.S. on this

[CakeGrrl]

74. Why would you be surprised at this?

Our trade relations with other nations are very important to their economies.

Harboring a known American leaker is not a good way to maintain those relations.

[siligut]

124. Trade trumps diplomacy

Snowden is small potatoes to these people, the message that his behavior won't be tolerated is what matters.

So stop thinking for yourself, your values and moral ethics are inconvenient to their plans.

[Progressive dog]

126. Orwellian propaganda assaults, relentless, lying, smearing

Thanks for continuing to raise the level of discussion on DU.

States that build surveillance infrastructures also build propaganda infrastructures.

That damn propagandist Thomas Paine and that awful spy, Nathan Hale. I'll bet the Founding fathers were horrified that people on their side wrote propaganda and spied.

[LanternWaste]

152. Almost as quickly as those lacking the conviction of their own courage never

Almost as quickly as those lacking the conviction of their own courage never seem to have the spine or the guts to specifically say who they're talking about... always living vicariously through the courage of others as they contentedly sit on their fat surplus, and type away on a message board... and always an excuse as to why others do but never themselves.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other... and both as vapid and without thought as the other.

[Douglas Carpenter]

167. thanks for proving my point

[sibelian]

158. +1

[Skraxx]

11. Hey Ed! How's Moscow This Time of Year?

Putin treating you ok? One word of caution, whatever you do, whatever he tells you, don't pull his finger. It's not a joke.

[Tarheel_Dem]

57. !!!

[gcomeau]

12. Excuse me...

"We are all Snowden now.

...but I object to being called a thieving traitorous douchebag. Do speak for yourself

[former9thward]

27. The OP speaks for me.

Why come into a thread if you don't like it. Did someone force you?

[gcomeau]

51. I'm sorry, did you actually just type that?

Why post disagreement to a thread in General Discussion?????

Do you know what board you're visiting right now?

[warrprayer]

71. thanks

no matter how hard I try, I have never been able to post an op that doesn't get picked apart for everything but what it is about

[cali]

16. jaysus. would people please stop using lynching every fucking time

they're unhappy about how someone is treated in the press?

[warrprayer]

30. not talking about how he is treated in the press

talking about the very real possibility of CIA rendition and torture

[backscatter712]

125. Character assassination is a more accurate term.

Maybe "lynching" is overboard, but shit-smearing, character-assassinating, and McCarthyist witchhunting are all good terms to describe what the authoritarian swarmers are trying to do.

[aquart]

141. The man took a job for the sole purpose of stealing from his employer.

What kind of character do you imagine he has left?

[bunnies]

17. Hitler, Mussolini AND lynching?

Ive seen some pretty flammable articles but I think this one takes the cake.

[warrprayer]

26. ...

[bunnies]

49. Not quite.

Im just sitting here laughing at the poor fool who wrote this drivel. Oh please, please tell me its you.

[warrprayer]

72. No I'm not that talented

but thanks for posting.
Your opinion is respected.

[SidDithers]

18. Oh FFS...

Snowden isn't being lynched.

Hyperbole like that makes Snowden defenders look ridiculous.

Sid

[warrprayer]

34. Hi Sid!

Glad at least you aren't defending the surveillance apparatus.

[Bobbie Jo]

83. This....

and any deviation from the prescribed narrative makes you:

Authoritarian
Totalitarian
Pro-surveillance
Fascist
Anti-constitutional
Elitist

Authoritarian Authoritarian Authoritarian

Useful idiot of the tyrannical oligarchy11!!1

[SidDithers]

97. And don't forget...

"Snowden is Paul Revere with a thumb drive full of the news that Tyranny is coming"



Sid

[Whisp]

129. That's something dim Sarah would spew.

lordy.

[Kahuna]

174. +1. I find it hilarious that people are on the IN-TER-NET, complaining about

not having any privacy...

[Bobbie Jo]

138. Yes!

[warrprayer]

101. the NSA

really needs the help of D.U. to defend itself from us "scumbag Snowden worshippers"!

[Bobbie Jo]

111. Yes, I left out NSA defender1!!

Thanks.

[CakeGrrl]

20. NOT Edward Snowden

He shouldn't have taken a job with the intent to steal its data, then peddle that data to China and Russia, and TELL a Chinese newspaper that was his intent.

Not too bright and forward-thinking, that one.

[FSogol]

21. Unrec for massive hyberbole.

[emulatorloo]

31. Sadly hyperbole is the engine that drives Modern DU

[FSogol]

37. If only we could harness the hyperbole, wailing, hand wringing, loose rhetoric, etc into a

non-bird killing, non-cancer causing renewable resource, we could power the world! Not to exaggerate or anything....

[warrprayer]

39. sadly

there is a finger pointing at the moon. the fool sees only the finger.

[FSogol]

66. Too passive-agressive to insult me directly?

Moon-fingers?

[warrprayer]

84. "Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear"?

... love your sig line. Catch-22 was a major influence on me - my brother gave it to me to read at 14 when he came home from Vietnam.

[emulatorloo]

70. LOL.

[warrprayer]

108. ...

[sibelian]

115. Well *I* tried poking fun at it and NO-ONE CARED.

So I give up.

#sulk

[Kahuna]

163. +1,000,000! nt

[Rex]

22. That is great, visiting China or Moscow tomorrow?

Please, don't compare my to some outsourced hack with no ethics.

We are all embarrassed now.

That is all.

[warrprayer]

42. nope no ethics

high school dropout living in paradise with ballerina gives it all up to let us know what our shadow government is doing, and what it is threatening to become.

[arely staircase]

185. and give US intel to the Chinese

you keep leaving that part out.

weird.

[Hekate]

28. Probably not, thanks all the same.

[MjolnirTime]

41. Sorry, I'm not that stupid or selfish.

[warrprayer]

43. WELCOME!!!

[quinnox]

53. Anyone who is a thinking American is on Snowden's side eom.

[warrprayer]

55. thanks and don't feed

the ostriches

[Kahuna]

179. Sorry, Not! I do not condone giving our NSA operational secrets to our adversaries..

That's just me though. In my book, that is treason. Period. And I can't wait for the long arm of Uncle Sam to catch up to this whiny traitor.

[zappaman]

54. Not me. n/t

[warrprayer]

80. hi Zappaman!

[backscatter712]

127. The true spirit of Frank Zappa! n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

61. Is it, or is it not, "ABOUT SNOWDEN". You guys need to make up your minds.

[warrprayer]

64. ...

"If we now are going allow the mere embarrassment of the power elites and/or the challenge to the power elites’ power (such as by pointing out their crimes, such as their blatant violations of our constitutional protections) to be classified as a “crime,” then we might as well wrap up the American experiment right now and call it a Colossal Fucking Failure, and let’s just go full-blown already into the nightmare state that George Orwell dreamed of, the nightmare state in which all of us are monitored 24/7 and which any of us can be disappeared at any time by the power elite at their whim. "

[cali]

68. not to me. but what on earth makes you think that "us guys" all have the same opinion?

[Cha]

73. Riiiight.. it's not about the sneaky snitch Snowden.. except

it is.

[warrprayer]

76. "snitching"?

really? revealing the largest spying on Americans in history is "snitching"?

[Cha]

79. Snitching to China and Russia.

[warrprayer]

81. don't forget

letting Germany and the EU know we had them bugged as well. Nothing makes friends quicker...

[Tarheel_Dem]

86. You guys conveniently leave out the part where he fled the country & revealed much more than.....

"spying on Americans". I realize that's where you'd like to focus the American people's attention, but it's so much more than that now. He's a Russian now, and they can have his funky ass. Journalists who supported the initial leak, are now peddling away from him because of the China/Russia thingie.

I honestly believe Comrade Eddie is trying to cause an international incident which will allow him to go underground, and off the radar. That would be unfortunate for all concerned.

[warrprayer]

107. yes he revealed

that we also were spying on Germany, our ally, and the E.U.

[Tarheel_Dem]

131. And why would he do that? He's just making allegations at this point. Where's the proof?

Any idiot can do that, and "any idiot" has. Why did he choose to make this claim ahead of the EU trade talks? It certainly wasn't to give his home country an advantage in those talks. Think about that. Despite his best efforts, the talks will go ahead, because the EU can't afford for them not to. They're just making noises of "outrage" for public consumption at this point, hoping to gain some advantage. As for the daily displays of "outrage" at DU, I don't buy much of it since this was brought to my attention:

"Take a look on Democratic Underground

They have the gov't paid trolls out, trying to limit the outrage & rebellion on there.

If that is the reaction of hard core Dems to the news stories on the NSA, I want to stoke up some more of it.

Lots of traffic on DU.

It's the most popular Dem internet site, except for Huffy Po - where everything meaningful gets censored."

http://www.dailypaul.com/288556/clapper-and-feinstein-get-caught-lying-big-time#comment-3103138

[Kahuna]

178. Google, Amazon and Facebook and my ISP know more about my communications than

the government could ever hope to. At least the gov is collecting the data to thwart evil-doers.

[Douglas Carpenter]

77. It is about the power of the clandestine services and it just so happened to be Edward Snowden who

challenged it enough to create a public debate that would not be happening now if he or someone else had not, It could have been Billy Smith or Al Chase or Rodney Rangers - but it just happened to be that one person - Edward Snowden who challenged the power of the clandestine services enough to create a public debate and now and for the rest of his life he will pay a dear for it. If the clandestine services are brought under control and liberal democracy survives - we will all owe a debt of gratitude to him,

[DevonRex]

100. I think I'm gonna go get my old job back. Who knew I had so much power?

This time I'll do it right and rule the world!!!!!! Thank you So much!! Oh, I just got my Secret Snowden Spy Set complete with Ed's Real Faux Solid Gold Decoder Ring, Revoked American Passport embossed with My Name, two pamphlets called "Hacking For Geniuses Smarter Than The President Of The United States" and "How To Escape To Ecuador." But then I got a weird email from somebody calling himself Igor Sneg. It said to disregard the pamphlet on Ecuador but that further instructions would be coming someday.

[CakeGrrl]

78. +1

"It's about the message, not the messenger!"

Except for threads like this.

[sibelian]

90. I'm Edward Snowden and so is my wife.

We both smell faintly of dead things.

[Tarheel_Dem]

96. ???

[sibelian]

110. um...

[SugarShack]

62. Some say he's a child product of the C.I.A. who is trying to stir up civil unrest.

[warrprayer]

65. some people say

»




“Some People Say” Fox News Proliferates Propaganda"

http://elingreso.com/2011/05/26/some-people-say-fox-news-proliferates-propaganda/

[backscatter712]

182. You read my mind!

"Some people say" is straight out of the FAUX News Shit-Stirring School of Propaganda.

[Tx4obama]

85. Speak for yourself. Snowden is a anti-America felonious criminal.

The sooner he is arrested and stands trial the better!

[warrprayer]

91. HUAC

agrees

[Progressive dog]

87. I'm not, can't afford to fly to Hong Kong

and now Russia. I wouldn't like living in an airport, either.
He could just fly home and take his chances with US justice.

This is too silly to comment on.
"which any of us can be disappeared at any time by the power elite at their whim."

[siligut]

93. It is silly only to the extent that it makes it sound simple

Real threats that cannot be dealt with in other ways have to be taken care of.

[Progressive dog]

99. OKay

[warrprayer]

95. I am starting to choke up at the overall reaction here

[Progressive dog]

112. Bradley Manning was not a civilian

and Snowden is.
Manning is still alive and as far as I know has suffered no permanent physical disabilities from his treatment. He was moved to an army jail after nine months in solitary at a marine jail. Out of 1000 days in jail, Manning spent the first 270 or so days in solitary.

[siligut]

88. I am a little bit

I tried to do what I had been trained to do and because of it, I have been blackballed from my former profession.

Edited to add, the failure of people to even respond to this post just indicates how easy it is for people to be destroyed.

I was a travel nurse working at an HMO. I have an extensive background and had been an RN for many years. One patient had every indication of having suffered a myocardial infarction (an MI, AKA heart attack). His cardiac enzymes were elevated as an objective indication of this, and his EKG had changes also indicative of damage but the MD would not accept these results. He even sent the blood to a different lab, got the same results and still would not accept that this patient had a heart problem. Another patient also had EKG changes that indicated a grave cardiac problem, but the MD would not see them and insisted the problem was of a different origin. This second patient died that night of a massive heart attack. After extensive investigation, I determined that the HMO was trying to save money by misdiagnosing expensive disorders.

Here is the most appalling part of this scenario, the doctor in the ER was a friend to a male nurse I worked with and would admit attractive, young females, who did not warrant admission, for this male nurse to play with. So, they were wasting money on prurient desires while letting people suffer and die.

The disinformation campaign against me when I resisted the party-line was fierce. My professional reputation was trashed. At one point, to get new a job, I was able to bypass references from former employers using the reference from a teacher who knew of my work and past, shining evaluations from former employers, the same former employers who were now so willing to sacrifice me. An investment company of the same ilk as the HMO bought up enough of my new company to replace the director and human resource person. Soon all the best managers and people were gone. The stock soared but the company became a very difficult place for anyone with knowledge and ethics to work. And while I had been appreciated by previous mangers and coworkers I became the object of gossip and scorn.

I only wish I had Ed's youth and had left the country when I still could.

[warrprayer]

98. Sad

and also sad that I am not at all surprised. At least you can hold your head up and sleep at night. I have heard similar horror stories of whistleblowers in the medical field.

[siligut]

109. Thank you, yes it is alarming what is happening

All my training says this could never happen, but it is happening. People who go into the hospital with the expectation of receiving care, may never know if they are just being led down the garden path. This is now true of cancer patients with some of the cancer centers that have opened and also for seniors, because of the greed for those Medicare dollars.

[backscatter712]

102. Cool! This thread gives me the chance to update my ignore list!

So many character-assassinating, authoritarian quislings, so little time...

[warrprayer]

106. Actually I think it's a form of censorship

they tried to control the web overtly with legislation for years and were defeated. Now that everyone knows they are watching every single bit of data, the more outspoken are probably going to start being a lot more careful...

[woo me with science]

104. Huge K&R. The propaganda machine does not like threads like this.

It considers them the most dangerous type of threat, which is why the swarming is already ugly and relentless and will continue until the thread is thoroughly polluted.

The one thing the PTB cannot risk is allowing respect for Snowden and his decision, and demand for/anger over the information he is revealing, to grow among the American public. The American public, whose microscopic personal and private information is being vacuumed up and stored for later use by the corporate state, vastly outnumbers those who put this surveillance infrastructure into place. That the people might take Snowden's lead and begin to resist is terrifying to them.

That is why Snowden must be smeared, mocked, and destroyed, and an illusion created that good Americans join in the contempt. It is no accident that those throwing mud in this thread are the very same posters who reliably defend every single corporate and police state outrage coming from corporate Democrats.

As Greenwald said, "courage is contagious." That's why expressions like this cannot be permitted to stand.

[railsback]

113. So.. we're ALL lawbreakers?

Well, that certainly explains all the drama over the NSA.

[warrprayer]

116. Uncle Sam wants YOU

hoping for good news tonight. Have a good one!

[woo me with science]

119. Wow, fantastic graphic.

May I link to those in posts sometimes?

[Galraedia]

121. More like:

[Kahuna]

177. ...

[Galraedia]

123. Wayne Lapierre and Snowdick 2016!

Because "the government is coming to get your guns and all the spam in your inbox from the princess of Nigeria"

[Catherina]

136. Love it! n/t

[lamp_shade]

117. Horseshit. n/t

[Galraedia]

130. Well this is disturbing...

Snowden's fan club has turned into a freaking cult.

[backscatter712]

134. When have the authoritarians not been a cult? n/t

[Galraedia]

137. Serious question dude, are you high?

[aquart]

135. I am NOT Edward Snowden.

I am not a self-important Rand-riddled idiot.

Leaking to Americans about unconstitutional surveillance is one thing. Telling our allies they can't trust us because we are spying on them? Trying to turn allies into enemies? He can go to Hell. Or stay in Russia. Same thing.

[backscatter712]

181. *PLONK*

[Catherina]

139. I am Edward Snowden. And I will always have his back.

Fuck you NSA.

[alarimer]

147. Indeed and the CIA while we're at it.

And that lying sack of shit, DNI Clapper. He lied to Congress and still has a job.

And the fuck the authoritarians on this thread.

[Douglas Carpenter]

157. thank you for standing up for freedom. I guess it's not very popular these days in "liberal" circles

[woo me with science]

166. Au contraire. Don't fall for the desperate scenery.

DU is solidly against this spying. There's a hell of a lot of very loud propaganda trying to create the opposite illusion, though.

All states that turn authoritarian make heavy use of propaganda. States that build surveillance infrastructures also build propaganda infrastructures.

It's no accident that the swarmers guffawing with one another and slinging mud are the very same folks who reliably defend every corporate policy outrage coming out of this administration.




Dear mother of Gawd, I am tired of arguing with rocks
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023128127
225 recs

Don't entertain this garbage
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022981567
359 recs

Get One Thing Clear: NSA Domestic Spy Op Is FASCISM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023132144
152 recs

Let's Be Clear, say Legal Experts, What NSA Is Doing Is 'Criminal
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023120765
116 recs

FBI Knew of Plot to Execute Occupy Activists but Did Nothing [View all]
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3119333
198 recs

Take A Break From The Snowden Drama For A Reminder Of What He's Revealed So Far
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3093033
140 recs

Fine, you despise Snowden, have nothing but contempt for the dishonorable, traitorous little fuck
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3083047
235 recs

[backscatter712]

162. Amen to that!

Fuck the authoritarian bullies.

[woo me with science]

168. Hear, hear.

[Catherina]

169. All of it. The entire MIC needs to go

And those who are defending it because they're sucking on its teat, can either go find another teat to suck on or pound sand.

Fuck you NSA

[sheshe2]

159. Seriously? NOT I.

[Kahuna]

161. I am not that moronic clown. nt

[stevenleser]

175. No thank you, I'm neither Libertarian, nor Paulbot, nor traitor.

If I had needed to blow the whistle on something, I would have found a way that did not involve turning seven laptops full of classified information over to both the Chinese and Russians. You can bank on that.

[arely staircase]

184. serious shit indeed

giving US intell to the Chinese.

[jazzimov]

188. "Lynch"? "Disappear"?

[warrprayer]

195. I am Edward Snowden

?w=280&h=420