are new postal regulations tied to government surveillance...?

[mike_c]

OK, this sounds paranoid but here it is. I've lived at my current address for almost 15 years, and our rural western town does not have home mail delivery. Everyone in town gets a free P.O. box. I've had mine for nearly 15 years. Every now and then, maybe twice in the time I've been here, the post office asks me to sign a form saying I'm still at my address and still need the P.O. box. No worries.

Recently however, we got a notice in our box saying that it would be terminated unless we provide the USPS with two forms of identification, one a government issued photo ID and the other either a lease, mortgage, deed, or my vehicle registration number.

Why does the USPS have any interest in my vehicle reg number? I don't have any of those housing docs-- I rent my house, but there is no lease, just my 15 year old agreement with my landlord. Why does the USPS even have an interest in confirming my identity? They move mail from sender to recipient, and what difference could it possibly make if the recipient is really who they claim to be? After all, as long as someone has the key to the P.O. box, the mail gets picked up, and the USPS has done it's job.

My partner and I are discussing how to respond to this. We've always been great supporters of the USPS but this is unwarranted. I spoke with someone at the PO this afternoon and he confirmed, if we don't cough up the two forms of ID then they will close our PO box, even though we still live in the town they serve, and after 30 days they won't hold any mail for us at all. We're talking about simply not having a postal address. The PO confirmed that they would accept our mail as general delivery for 30 days, but after that it's return-to-sender. Parcels can be sent UPS or other parcel service, and we already use them extensively because of our rural location. We have a proper street address that we can use to fill out forms and such-- but the USPS says that unless we produce the ID, they won't even hold our mail for pickup during open hours after the first 30 days. To be clear, it's not that they will hold mail for 30 days-- after 30 days they simply send everything back to the sender as soon as it arrives.

So here we are, on the verge, apparently, of opting out of the USPS. We'll have a physical address but no mailing address. I'm speechless.

[d_r]

1. just a guess

but I bet people are using post offices like yours to establish an address without actually living there. Like, I know that people with sat. dishes do that - they find rural places where there is no tv reception and set up a po box with that address so that they can get the new york and la tv channels. There are probably other reasons that people do it also. That list of second form of ID - lease, mortgage, deed, or vehicle is something official to show that you actually do live there.

[mike_c]

3. this is a TINY rural town....

The day I signed the original request for the P.O. box the USPS employee behind the counter told me she was waiting for me-- she know I'd rented the house before I even went in. So my identity is not in question.

But even if it was, what interest does the POSTAL SERVICE have in making sure people aren't getting cheap cable channels by having an auxiliary mailing address?

[MineralMan]

6. Actually, I'm pretty sure it's a Homeland Security requirement.

I can check, if you like.

OK, I checked, and here's what I found:

U.S. Post Office boxes are a convenient way to collect mail and are more secure than your home mailbox. In some rural areas of the country where mail delivery is not an option, P.O. boxes may be a requirement to receive mail. In recent years, the postal service has heightened requirements for box rental in response to concerns about criminals using the boxes to protect their anonymity. U.S. Code, Title 31, part of a package of bills strengthening Homeland Security rules passed in February 2010, further increased postal service identification verification standards.

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/list_7384371_usps-box-homeland-security-requirements.html#ixzz2XpRdT3kX

[MineralMan]

2. That rule has been in place for some time.

Anyone renting a new PO box has to show that identification. I'm not sure why that is, really, but I've been at the post office when someone was renting one and have heard the ID request.

I suspect that you'll either have to give them what they want or lose the box. The driver's licence and vehicle registration are already in the government databases, anyhow.

[mike_c]

4. oh I know we'll lose the box-- then what?

How can anyone in America have a physical address but not be served by the USPS? No mailing address.

[MineralMan]

5. I don't have an answer for you on that.

Since there's no local mail delivery, that puts you in quite a bind. Lots of things require a valid mailing address. For myself, I'd just show them my driver's license and car registration or one of the other documents. But that's me.

I figure the government knows who I am in any case, and through a wide range of ways.

[elleng]

7. They don't have an interest in your vehicle tag number,

but do want to assure that you are THERE.

Like it or not (and we DON'T,) 9/11 changed our lives forever. I wouldn't worry or fuss about this, but just do it so you won't be inconvenienced for the rest of your lives (OR get a copy of your original 'lease,' assuming it ever existed.)

[struggle4progress]

8. "... our .. town does not have home mail delivery. Everyone .. gets a free PO box ..."

IMO they want you to establish that you qualify for a free PO box

I think you maybe misstated the ID requirements: See http://about.usps.com/forms/ps1093.pdf

It seems to me you can use your vehicle registration, voter registration, or home or vehicle insurance policy as the second ID, so I'd try any of those

I don't know if the Post Office initiated the change through rule-making in hopes of purging nonqualifying Group E boxholders or if there's a statute change behind your experience. But if you're still confused, go back to the Post Office and ask politely where you can find the regulation published. It's probably in the Domestic Mail Manual, and with a bit of work you can probably track down any relevant US Code references and Federal Register Notices from that.

[mike_c]

9. actually, I've just thought of an alternative....

When we retire we're thinking about hitting the road for a few years and living in an RV. For full-timers, that typically involves giving up the physical address to which the mailing address is associated-- so full-timers get a commercial "PO box" that, for all intents and purposes, looks like a real physical address on paper. It is a real mailing address, typically in a storefront that can either forward mail or put it in a box, just like a PO box, for pickup. We have one nearby. I'll have to look at their rates-- I don't mind paying a little more for my privacy.

The great irony is that the post office delivers THERE.

[necso]

10. In March (my 20th year here),

I had to show (just) a recent utility bill (for the first time, I believe) as proof of residency in order to keep my free po box (it's a benefit that potentially costs the post office revenue); so I think that a "tightening up" of proof of residency (identity) is a broader phenomenon. But I don't know to what extent defining the required proof is up to the individual postmaster.

Also, I recently had some deliveries to arrange, and I was told that Fed-ex no longer serves this area (I don't know about UPS, but I haven't heard any delivery truck in some time, whereas before I heard them pretty regularly) -- and without my pob I wouldn't have been able to receive delivery (a huge problem for me).

As for the general delivery route, I had a buddy who tried this. It turns out that some places won't mail general delivery, or won't mail certain (eg, important) things general delivery. (And you have to get to the post office when there's counter-service.) In short, he had all sorts of problems as a result.

My take is that this is not so much a surveillance thing as it is a security thing (eg, to try to prevent certain mail fraud) -- and simply making it harder to receive a benefit that one is due. So I'd just conform (as I have in the past)... or at least appear to conform. (Maybe your landlord would be happy to sign a simple rental agreement: mine is just a one page standard form.)

...

On another note:

My condolences to one and all.

[bunnies]

11. Its been that way for a long time.

Id REQUIRED

Whether you apply online or at a Post Office,
two valid forms of identification are required when you obtain your keys or combination at the Post Office where your box is located. You must present the IDs at a Post Office. One item must contain a photograph and one must be traceable to the bearer (prove your physical address). Both must be current. Acceptable forms of ID include:
photo Id Options:

Valid driver’s license or state non-driver’s identification card
■
Armed forces, government, university, or recognized corporate identification card
■
Passport, passport card, alien registration card, or certificate of naturalization

non-photo Id Options:
■
Current lease, mortgage, or deed of trust
■
Voter or vehicle registration card
■
Home or vehicle insurance policy
note: Social Security cards, credit cards, and birth certificates are not acceptable forms of ID.

http://about.usps.com/forms/ps1093.pdf

[CK_John]

12. So, how many years have you been on the lamb? Will we be making headlines like Whitey?

Just kidding.