Gun "Accidentally" Kills 16 Year Old In Louisiana

[SoCalMusicLover]

A 23-year-old Louisiana man accidentally fired an assault rifle while showing it off to a group of friends, killing a 16-year-old, police said.

Christian Cardon, of Gretna, was booked Sunday on a count of negligent homicide, according to the Times-Picayune. His friend, Trey Stahl, was found by first responders lying on the kitchen floor with a bullet wound to his neck. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

Cardon was allegedly showing off his AR-15 assault rifle in the kitchen. He told police that he pulled the trigger to clear the gun, and it discharged. He said he left the rifle's magazine in his vehicle before he brought the weapon inside, and that he didn't realize the gun had a live round in the chamber.

He faces a maximum sentence of five years in jail.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/01/christian-cardon-trey-stahl_n_3529644.html


Wow!! Maximum of 5 whole years. Seems fair for taking the life of a teenager.

I'm sure he'll be much more careful after he gets out and starts using weapons again. <sarcasm>

[hack89]

1. What crime other than Negligent Homicide would you charge him with?

Five years is a typical max sentence for Negligent Homicide.

Here is the Louisiana law:

2006 Louisiana Laws - RS 14:32 — Negligent homicide

§32. Negligent homicide

A. Negligent homicide is the killing of a human being by criminal negligence.

B. The violation of a statute or ordinance shall be considered only as presumptive evidence of such negligence.

C. Whoever commits the crime of negligent homicide shall be imprisoned with or without hard labor for not more than five years, fined not more than five thousand dollars, or both. However, if the victim was killed as a result of receiving a battery and was under the age of ten years, the offender shall be imprisoned at hard labor, without benefit of probation or suspension of sentence, for not less than two nor more than five years.

Amended by Acts 1980, No. 708, §1; Acts 1991, No. 864, §1.

http://law.justia.com/codes/louisiana/2006/146/78409.html

[Lizzie Poppet]

5. Seems like the right charge, but I consider the penalty inadequate.

This incident also points up the need for rigorous training before exercising one's right to possess deadly weapons. Not checking the chamber? I simply cannot imagine ever doing that.

[CTyankee]

55. I'm not at all convinced that "rigorous training" is the cure here. You can be rigorously trained an

at the same time be a seriously unhinged zealot or a determined criminally inclined individual. Such people are not likely to be fazed by rigorous training in gun use. In fact, I think the opposite is true.

I'm sure you can't imagine ever doing what he did. But that is a problem right there. The fact is that there are incredibly irresponsible, ignorant and lazy people who can nonetheless get guns. It's out there every day as long as we fail as a nation to pass reasonable gun safety laws.

[Lizzie Poppet]

57. I'm not suggesting it's a crime prevention measure.

This thread's not about criminal use of firearms, it's about an accident that happened when an idiot violated multiple absolutely basic principles of gun safety. Rigorous training helps prevent this sort of tragedy by making those principles completely automatic. That's why I say I can't imagine doing that: it's automatic for me to check the chamber of any purportedly "unloaded" gun, to keep my finger away from the trigger unless the weapon's pointed on-target, and to never point it at anything I don't want to destroy. It's fully ingrained behavior.

I do agree wholeheartedly that the ease with which irresponsible, completely untrained persons can obtain firearms is a big problem. I support mandatory training requirements. I understand the argument against requiring government permission to exercise a constitutional right, but I think it's a useful compromise. Firearms accidents aren't remotely the problem criminal misuse of guns is, or course. But required training seems like a way to reduce those comparatively small numbers even further.

[CTyankee]

65. I want to thank you for your clearheaded assessment of reasonable gun safety laws such as

mandatory training requirements.

As for the crime issues, a very good argument can be made that there are other remedies, unrelated to just gun issues per se, that can reduce crime. My city has had some success with "community policing," for instance. I would have to check the stats over a long period of time but there is the sense that this has been a good thing and a positive step. The problems that remain of course are our drug laws and inner city poverty. The point I am trying to make is that these problems won't go away with one solution and only one level of society. Each level can do a lot, if only they would. Right now we are choosing our Democratic candidate for mayor in an upcoming primary, which is like electing one since we are overwhelmingly a Democratic city. We are now shedding our "mayor for life" John DeStefano (of infamous Ricci SCOTUS case fame) for, I sincerely hope, a black woman who is currently my state senator. This is an absolutely critical election for our city, IMO.

[SoCalMusicLover]

15. Five Years For Taking A Life?

Here's another thread from DU about someone facing 13 years for using chalk on a sidewalk.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023142360

We truly have a wonderful system here. I'm sure he'll be able to buy an even better assault weapon in a couple of years when he gets out. Although somehow I don't imagine he'll even spend that long in jail. After all, it was just an "accident."

Tell that to the family. I'm sure they'll find comfort in that.

[hack89]

20. The law is the law. 5 years is not an uncommon sentence for negligent homicide.

why are you mad at me? I am merely pointing out why he can only go to prison for 5 years.

And no - he will not be able to legally buy a gun again because he has been convicted of a felony.

[SoCalMusicLover]

22. He'll Find A Way

There are so many holes in the gun buying system, I'm sure he won't have a problem finding a gun, even with a felony conviction.

That's even assuming he's convicted of a felony. By the time this is all over, and he cries about how it was an innocent accident, he might get let off with a citation.

[galileoreloaded]

2. Good. our laws are working. nt

[Duckhunter935]

3. training is important

failed to clear his weapon and if followed basic rules, this sad episode would not happen. He will have to live with this for the rest of his life. He should get jail time for his negligence, not sure for how long.

BASIC RULES, everyone should be taught.

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

http://thefiringline.com/Misc/safetyrules.html

children should also be taught not to touch guns and to get an adult if they see one.

[ZombieHorde]

4. I would support legislations that forced a person

to write out those four rules before buying a gun.

[Lizzie Poppet]

6. I like that.

From memory, too...no cheat sheet.

[Iggo]

31. Fuckin' A Right.

[MH1]

61. That's and excellent idea.

The Four Commandments of Gun Ownership.

[Jenoch]

16. I would add,

never attempt to 'clear' a gun by pulling the trigger.

I was once deer hunting at a cousin's place and one of the other guys there decided to check to see if his gun was on safe by pulling the trigger. It was not on safe and it was loaded. Fortunately, he had the muzzle pointing in the air. I let him have it with a louder than it should have been scolding. (I did not know the guy.) i hunted that day, but never returned.

[Hoyt]

51. Unfortunately, people don't follow basic rules. Even folks who "teach" those basic rules screw up.

We pay the price for folks prurient interest in guns.

[BainsBane]

7. But, but . . . guns are just inanimate objects

I'm told that it's irrational to dislike or fear them.

[Robb]

8. Well, the gun was unharmed.

Let us now consult the Book of Gundamentslist Platitudes, chapter 3, verse 6-9:

And yea, though the child lay slain,
We shall come together in chastising the killer for their lack of gun safety skills,
And pick upon the nits of gun type and character;
The holy Gun no more than a plow, or hammer, or pools of Swimming.
Except only thy greatest Fools buy more swimming pools when their neighbors' child is drown'd.

[ileus]

12. the gun was not unharmed...it was victimized by a 23yo dumbass.

[SoCalMusicLover]

13. The Gun Will Go On To Lead A Productive Life

The dead teenager, not so much.

[alcibiades_mystery]

39. Post of the year

Gawd, the gunners are such useless shitheads.

[NickB79]

9. "he pulled the trigger to clear the gun"

Yeah, that would do it, if you're too stupid to pull back the charging handle. Dumb-ass.

[MH1]

63. and why the hell have it pointed at someone?

yeah, the "what a dumb-ass" lines could go on for awhile.

and the kid is still dead.

[Arkansas Granny]

10. Looking at that headline, it seems that guns actually DO kill people.

Another responsible gun owner, I'm sure. A tragic accident that was totally avoidable.

[ileus]

11. Wut??? you clear the chamber by pulling the trigger...

Title should be 23yo "accidently" kills 16yo


I always pull the charging handle back on my AR's to check the chamber. As a bystander I also make sure never to stand in front of any firearms business end.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

14. nice bullshit headline

the GUN didn't accidentally do anything... the idiot waving the weapon around then pulling the trigger killed someone.

sP

[Duckhunter935]

18. like this car drove into walmart

At least these guys know how to write a headline

Man drives car into San Jose WalMart, attacks customers

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/several-people-injured-after-car-crashes-san-jose-/nW8Fb/

OP story should have read "man shoots and kills teenager with rifle"

[Jenoch]

17. If we took a poll

I would bet that not a single Person would say the 23 year old was a responsible gun owner. This tragedy is another exanple why everyone should go through gun safety training.

[Duckhunter935]

19. Not a responsible gun owner

that is correct, like I said training is important. 20+ years of "keep your weapon up and downrange".

[Marrah_G]

66. Unfortunately, right now, everyone is a responsible gun owner...

...until they aren't.

We have more training and regulation for cars and motorcycles then we do for guns.

[SoCalMusicLover]

21. But He WAS A Responsible Gun Owner

Because, everyone is a responsible gun owner, until they do something irresponsible.

We gotta have our guns though. So it's inevitable that we're going to have innocent, "accidental" deaths from time to time.

The nice thing about guns is that when you're "irresponsible," the worst thing that can happen is someone loses their life forever. Gun lovers can live with that, so long as nobody takes away their guns.

[Jenoch]

23. You are mistaken.

There are many irresponsible gun owners. This 23 year old is one example. A felon with a gun, a gun owner with underage children in the house and unlocked guns, a person who uses illegal drugs, these are all irresponsible gunowners.

You seem like you would be in favor of banning all private ownership of guns. How do you propose something like that could be accomplished?

[Duckhunter935]

24. no he was not

99% are and you never here about them but the 1% idiots are yes not responsible gun owners.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

26. you can be irresponsible with lots of things and kill people

but guns are really the only inanimate object that gets blamed for the deaths... makes loads of sense.

sP

[upaloopa]

29. Guns don't kill people idiots with guns kill people

[ProdigalJunkMail]

32. but that isn't how it's portrayed by many here

is it? the disconnect in logic when political 'mission' gets in the way is astounding.

sP

[upaloopa]

35. Yes there is little logic in most of tbese threads.

[Lizzie Poppet]

30. I disagree.

"everyone is a responsible gun owner, until they do something irresponsible"

I disagree. If you don't get proper training, commit that training to memory, then act according to that training from the start, you never were a responsible gun owner.

[upaloopa]

33. Not everyone. Just people who want guns.

Some people want nothing to do with guns and that is their right.

[Jenoch]

43. I think everyone should

have a general knowledge of firearms. Of course it is their right to remain ignorant about guns. If the 16 year old in this case had gun safety training he might have asked if the gun was unloaded and then asked that it be proven to him by pulling back the bolt. That is what I do.

[upaloopa]

45. I am speaking for people like my wife. She hates guns

even though I have a .22 pistol. I keep the cylinder out of the frame and a gun lock on the frame. That is our compromise.

[Jenoch]

46. I was thinking of people

younger than your wife should get firearms training. Teenagers should be taught about guns. It could save ther life and I can't think of a good reason not to have the training.

[upaloopa]

49. I disagree. Guns represent violence and killing to some

people and they want nothing to do with guns. Kids can make that decision when they are able to purchase a gun. Until then parents have the duty to raise their kids as they see fit.

[Jenoch]

50. "...parents have the duty to raise their kids as they see fit."

Of course they do. I have never written anything about mandatory gun safety training. Such training could one day save the lives of those that go through such training.

[sigmasix]

25. another death caused by the NRA

the NRA and it's followers have spent millions of dollars and thousands of man-hours to make the notion of responsible gun ownership a running joke. Through legislation designed to weaken gun responsibility enforcement, defund legal authorities that deal with illegal gun sales and expand gun rights to violent felons the NRA shares a great deal of responsibility for this 16 year-old's murder. But, like all extremist reactionary organizations, will not accept responsibility for their actions.
The NRA has created a legislative and moral atmosphere that is directly responsible for the tragic existence of irresponsible individuals given the right to own guns.

My wife and I have made a rule: no one is allowed to bring any gun onto our property- even close friends and family are not allowed to come armed on our property. We will not discuss our policy or waste time bebating with gundamentalists- we will just call the police and report the illegal presence of a gun on our property and let the grinning gun nut explain to LEOs the need for bringing a gun onto property that is well marked as private property with a "NO GUNS ALLOWED" policy. With any luck said gun nut will lose his/her gun rights over intentionally breaking the law with a gun.

[Jenoch]

34. Why would close friends and family,

or anyone for that matter, bring guns onto your property? Is your property in the country where hunting occurs?

[sigmasix]

47. I have friends and family that are teabagger gun nuts

and when they are on our property only my wife and I are allowed to have a gun. Florida law makes "accidental" gun discharges that lead to the death of someone else a joke. If a gun nut kills or harms one of my family members while ("cleaning&quot playing with his/her gun, said gun nut better get to the cops before I find him/her and "clean" my .357 at them.
We used to live in the woods of michigan- drunken NRA nuts out hunting on our property was a serious problem; the local NRA chapter really enjoyed mixing beer and firearms while trespassing on several private estates without permission. One day a few years ago I caught 5 proud, drunken NRA members trespassing on my land with loaded long rifles and AR 15 look-alikes- shooting at geese and duck well out of season. When I informed them that they were tresspassing they brandished their weapons and told me that I would be stupid to contact LEOs because they (the NRA sticker collectors) "know where my family sleeps"
I've never met an honorable NRA supporter, lot's of bigot filled conspiracy theory mongers, but no one with honor.
I suppose it would be impossible to be honorable while creating a moral and political atmosphere that leads to violent death at the hands of irresponsible gun owners.
My gun-nut friends know they have no chance of convincing me to beleive in the NRA's paranoia-manipulating lies and AntiAmerican aims.

[Jenoch]

48. Wow, that's a lot of NRA.

We have a couple hundred acres of hunting and farmland in Minnesota and have had no experiences similar to what you describe.

[sigmasix]

53. you're lucky

NRA enthusiasts were so irresponsible in our neck of the woods that we had to make sure our children stayed indoors during hunting season- many close calls with trespassing NRA drunks firng their weapons in the air and in other deeply irresponsible and dangerous ways. On more than one occasion I caught NRA members tersspassers on my land shooting at whatever moves- our children used to like playing in the woods on our property, but all too often we had to keep them indoors because of the real danger the local NRA members represented to the life of our children. They never cleaned up their shell casings after tresspassing and shooting up our woods and one time I ran over an unspent bullet with my lawnmower- the bullet went off and punctured a whole in the deck of the riding mower, missing me by inches.
This has been my family's experience with NRA members and gun nut folks- I'm sure there are many stories like this, but the Right wing media has successfully scrubbed any story that refutes right wing gun nuttery and misanthropic hatred for "the other". NRA members are not given the right to be heroic protectors of all white women- why do these bigoted misogynists need to make beleive they are heros? Because their narrative is violently destructive to the rule of law and everyone knows that the NRA is working hard to destroy american cohesion and the bill of rights. The criminal activities of NRA members are ignored or trivialized by local good ole boy LEOs that are members and supporters of the aims of the NRA and the individual local NRA members that routinely use their guns for illegal activities like tresspassing, poaching and dangerous firearm discharging while drinking. Jethro, the local deputy is not going to arrest billyjoe, his fellow NRA member and shooting range pal.
Fuck the NRA and all their goons that tresspass on other's land and threaten the life of non-NRA members that want guns restricted to responsible adults.

Remember: NRA= "no responsible adults"

[Jenoch]

54. How do you know they are

all NRA nembers?

We generally have a more respecful shooting/huntint crowd in our area (northern Minnesota.) We have had our land for about 15 years and I can only recall a couple times we had tresspassers. Both times occured while we were not there and no guns were involved as far as we know. Our land is posted but not too well.

Have a safe Independence Day.

[sigmasix]

58. the ballcaps, tshirts and membership decals on their trucks

From our experience, NRA members love to announce to everyone else how proud they are to be a member. The trucks of the tresspassers were always adorned with NRA membership stickers and they often wore caps and jackets with "NRA" printed across the front or back. We contacted the local LEOs several times concerning the tresspassing, but every time we did it, the trespassers got a call from someone associated with the county cops warning them to leave before the police arrived. We took photos and video of the tresspassers and were told by the county sherriff that there was nothing the police could do because the tresspassers have legal rights, when hunting, which couldn't be taken from them. Those rights include the ability to follow a hunted animal onto my property or through it. I asked what would happen If I met the NRA tresspassers with my own guns, in an attempt to protect my family from them and was told that if I did that the police would charge me with a crime. This was the woods of Michigan and the property was owned and well marked as a no hunting or tresspassing plot. NRA tresspassers would just tear my signs down or shoot them up with their man-sized courage machines. I've met many residents of the woods of Michigan with the same sort of story; It's like the local NRA has discovered a list of names of residents that are anti-NRA and decided to harrass and intimidate those that disagree with them by tresspassing and brandishing weapons to terrorize defensless American homeowners.
Big boys that treat guns like toys shouldn't have the right to own a gun- especially when they use their gun to terrorize their fellow Americans and destroy other's private property.

[Jenoch]

60. Are you having similar problems

in Florida?

I guess we're lucky. Our property is recreational. We have a cattleman that has planted about 90 acres of clover that he cuts and bales three times a year. Another neighbor checks our gate everytime he drives by.

[sigmasix]

67. we live in the city here now

I haven't experienced any of those problems here in florida. Of course we dont have 16 acres of wooded land with a pond on here so unless they wanna shoot the pool in the back yard they're gonna look pretty obvious with their shot guns and AR15s when they pull up in the driveway. We have a policy that expessly forbids anyone from bringing a gun onto our property here in florida. This is due to the ridiculousness of florida gun laws written by the NRA. In florida a gun owner can kill anyone and get away with it if they claim they were just cleaning the gun and accidently shot the victim. The most the murderer with a clean gun can expect for punishment is 5 years. Florida's NRA-written gun laws offer the perfect opportunity to commit murder and receive no real punishment.
My wife and children's lives are too important to trust to NRA supporters with cleaning kits and dirty guns.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

41. define murder...

because unless something changes in the story... murder it was not.

sP

[CokeMachine]

27. Here's the correct headline from the article you linked.

"Christian Cardon Accidentally Fired Assault Rifle, Killing 16-Year-Old Trey Stahl In Louisiana: Police"
Just an FYI ...

[Duckhunter935]

37. Thanks

Did it change or did the OP try and shape the story here? If this is the case the OP should be ashamed and should correct the headline.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

40. take a guess... n/t

[CokeMachine]

44. Here's the time stamp.

The Huffington Post | By Andy Campbell Posted: 07/01/2013 1:20 pm EDT | Updated: 07/01/2013 1:20 pm EDT

The OP was posted at 12:40 PST which would be 3:40 EDT.

Looks like the OP just made up the headline to fit their narrative. Wasn't (isn't) there a rule on DU that the original headline must be used?? Maybe that's just LBN.

[upaloopa]

28. So was this guy trained to use this weapon

or does he live in a "live free or die state"

[Jenoch]

36. It is evident that he was not trained to handle that weapon.

[Duckhunter935]

38. or any weapon nt

[Jenoch]

42. I have read about

situations like this where, usually, a young person, is handlng a semi-auto and thinks the gun is unloaded if the magazine is removed. They know little about the gun. Again, that's why I think EVERYONE should go through gun safety training.

[Paladin]

56. Gun Handling 101: Big-time fail. (nt)

[kestrel91316]

52. In a just world, he would be banned from owning or even touching guns FOR LIFE.

You can't fix stupid.

[bluedigger]

59. You never see a headline "Gun hits target" or "Gun shoots deer".

More evidence that guns are inherently evil when left to their own devices.

[onethatcares]

62. enter the first rule of firearm safety

along with the second and third.

Damn stupidity will get us all killed, if we're not careful.

btw, pulling the trigger will actually clear the gun,

[rrneck]

64. The guy that pulled the trigger made a horrible mistake and will pay for it.

I have to wonder what the guy who got shot was thinking. He didn't do (or not do as the case may be) anything for which he deserved to die, but damn if somebody points a gun at me I'm not going to just stand there and wait to see what happens when he pulls the trigger. Why didn't anybody in that group think to say, "Whoa dude, fuckin' watchit with that thing!"

Tragedies like this don't happen for just one reason, but as the result of a combination of failures. One guy made a mistake that will cost him five years of his life. Another made a smaller one that cost him the rest of his life. How many others made the same small mistake and it won't cost them anything.

[madinmaryland]

68. Another responsible gun owner, until he was not.

FUCKING DUMBASS.

FUCK THE NRA.