My Cop bullshit radar just went off with Zimmermans sotry....

[JH19059]

First off his story is entirely too meticulous, elaborate, and in my opinion contrived. He didn't know what street he was on?..Bullshit. Trayvon popped out of bushes..No bushes buddy! The part that really strikes me as odd is him saying that when Trayvon "confronted" him on the sidewalk in between the houses, Zimmerman stated he reached for his "cell Phone" ...why on earth if I'm about to be attacked and I'm armed why would I reach for my cell phone? Answer.. he didn't he went for his gun or in my opinion his gun was already out when he confronted Trayvon. Trayvon in fear of his life fought but was overpowered. I've heard stories like Zimmermans before and all turned out to be complete bullshit. Det. Serino knew it was all lies but was hampered by his department heads and prosecutors, which I myself can attest to. The female officer that was on the stand needs to turn her badge in for ineptness in basic suspect control and interrogation. There in lies the problem he was not interrogated instead he was interviewed which these are completely two different tactics. Trayvon was treated as the suspect and not as the victim by her and others from the offset.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

1. Agreed, the cop should turn in her badge for ineptness. What about the prosecutor?

The origionally didn't want to charge and prosecute Zimmerman. But public opinion changed their position.

But if a defense attorney is allowed to repeatedly ask questions calling for speculation, instead of being limited to asking questions calling for what the witnesses saw and heard, those speculative questions can influence a jury. They can cause confusion. Even without causing bona fide confusion, they can give an excuse to a juror who wants to vote "not guilty" for Zimmerman.

The female cop isn't the only one who didn't do her job.

[DesertFlower]

2. would zimmerman been interrogated

differently is trayvon was white?

[mountain grammy]

33. Of course, and Zimmerman would be crying about being "profiled."

[noiretextatique]

3. his story is a complete fabrication designed to cover his ass

as i suspected all along.

[Honeycombe8]

4. What you're saying is that GZ's case is going well, based on the evidence, but you choose not

to believe that evidence. Fair enough. You have that right.

His statements about the case have apparently been very consistent, after repeated statements, and he was very willing to speak with the police w/o getting a lawyer or anything. He even was willing to be videotaped by the police at the scene, later, as he explained what happened. W/o a lawyer present. That is really extraordinary for any suspect to do. Those things all lend credibility to his version.

That's not to say that every detail was accurate or didn't change.

There is also witness testimony corroborating his version (that TM had GZ down on the ground, pummeling him in a martial arts type stance and way).

It sounds to me that, unless there is testimony showing that GZ is lying about something significant, he is telling the truth.

[frylock]

7. how does GZ get to a gun that is on his hip..

if Martin is straddling him as alleged by GZ?

[Skidmore]

10. The more important question was why was he permitted to carry a gun to begin with.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/27/10894561-zimmerman-accused-of-domestic-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer?lite

[premium]

18. He was only accused, not convicted. nt.

[JDPriestly]

28. At what angle did the bullet enter Trayvon's body?

That could be key in determining whether Zimmerman's story makes sense. Because if Trayvon was straddled on top of Zimmerman, what was Zimmerman doing with his hands? Let's agree for the sake of argument that Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon Martin was beating down on him with his fists. Let's say Zimmerman's hands were free and on the outsides of Trayvon's body. Where would the gun have been? How could Zimmerman have reached it? And from what angles would he have shot Trayvon? Any experts on this?

Now let's say that Zimmerman approached Trayvon with his gun in his hand, and Trayvon tried to grab the gun, couldn't, but managed to attack Zimmerman and grapple Zimmerman to the floor. (Seems kind of unbelievable to me. Seems to me that if Trayvon had approached Zimmerman when Zimmerman had the gun in his hand, Zimmerman would have reflexively shot. There wouldn't have been any grappling on the ground. The thing about the repeated downward motion toward the body on the ground. Is ther any indication that someone had tried to perform misguided CPR on Trayvon?

As I recall from talking to a medical student at an inner city hospital years ago and as we know from TV shows about forensic science, a doctor can tell with some limited precision just from looking at a wound at what angle the bullet entered and from what distance.

That's why I think the forensic reports are the key to this case. The only accurate information we have about Zimmerman's wounds is from the initial police report. Any other injuries could have happened after the shooting.

I can ask these questions and pose the hypothetical scenarios, but I know nothing about bullets and shooting and forensics. Does anyone else?

[Lurks Often]

54. The forensics report is here

starting on about page 125: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf

Even if Zimmerman had his gun in his hand at the beginning of the encounter and there is no proof of that, I am pretty sure legally he is not allowed to shoot at that point since Martin has not yet presented a reasonable risk of death or grave bodily harm yet (presuming for the purpose of this specific discussion that Martin attacked Zimmerman first)

My anatomy is very rusty and I'll certainly defer to the ME or medical expert that testifies, but with the bullet entering on just left of the mid line and passing through, at the end of the bullet path, the right ventricle of the hear and right lower lobe of the lung, that would seem consistent with Zimmerman firing the gun from the right hand.

EMT report is at the end page 183-185

[DallasNE]

69. Page 125

The bullet entered "intercostal space", which I presume means between the ribs so the bullet would not have been deflected.

&quot P)rojectile: directly, front to back

Now how would Zimmerman be able to get the gun in the proper position to support this angle. One way would be if they were disengaged at the time. That supports 2nd degree murder. If Martin was on top of him throwing punches, or pounding his head into the pavement then Zimmerman must somehow get the gun between Martin's arms and chest high for the straight on angle. How could Martin not see the gun since it would have been virtually in his face. I am sure the prosecution will attempt to re-enact how that angle of entry could take place and that will not look good for Zimmerman.

Since Zimmerman was wearing a jacket that came below his waist he would have had to lift his jacket while flat on his back in order to get at his gun. This sounds like the Rosemary Woods story on erasing Nixon's tape. The physical evidence at the crime scene crushes Zimmerman.

Remember, Martin is 5'11" and 158 while Zimmerman is 5'8" and 204. That is a 46 pound weight advantage for Zimmerman. There is no way Martin should have been able to dominate a fight with such a severe weight disadvantage when the other guy is known to work out and look like it.

[Lurks Often]

70. The physician's assistant testified that Zimmerman would be considered overweight,

even obese and she saw him the day after the shooting.

Martin is at LEAST 5'11, other statements, including the family's, indicate that Martin was 6'2", something reinforced by the
convenience store tape showing Martin significantly taller then the 5'10" store clerk.

The jacket may or may not have ridden up in the struggle, that remains to be determined (if possible)

The ME report doesn't fully track, it says that the bullet entered the body just left of the mid line and ended up going through the right ventricle and lower lobe of the right lung. That doesn't match &quot P)rojectile: directly, front to back

I think the ME will need to clarify that. I will note how the ME defines things isn't exactly as we define things in day to day language. My definition of intermediate was much different the the medical examiner definition of intermediate.

[DallasNE]

78. When O'Mara Pressed That Obese Also Meant Not Athletic

The ME responded with "not necessarily". The ME report also listed Martin as 71 inches. The store tape is wide angle so the nearest person will always look taller relative to the person farther away so camera angles and lens both matter. "Right lung" makes no sense but it would line up with left lung. A trajectory from entry point to right lung would have missed the heart. Which lung did they say was collapsed? If it says left lung then this would be careless paperwork.

[DallasNE]

80. Reading More Closely

The lead core of the bullet lodged right behind the heart. The jacket fragmented, as designed, causing both lungs to collapse. I now see no inconsistency in the ME report. And it causes big problems for Zimmerman because of the trajectory that indicates Zimmerman had to get the gun between Martins arms and chest high -- basically almost in Martin's face. The only easy way for this positioning to happen is for them to be disengaged at the moment the shot was fired and that would spell 2nd degree murder. The trigger pull took over 4 pounds of pressure, which is far from a "hair trigger". It doesn't rule out a lucky shot but it makes it a pretty long shot. Zimmerman is getting killed by the physical evidence.

Zimmerman is also on record as saying Martin jumped out from behind the bushes and sucker punched him then later recounted the verbal exchange the two had. Which is it? We know from the phone records that Martin was on his cell phone at the start of the confrontation so how often do people jump other people while still talking on the phone? And how did Martin's body end up several feet from the sidewalk is Martin was slamming his head into the concrete. Zimmerman's story looks like Swiss cheese and smells like Limburger cheese.

[JDPriestly]

86. Interesting observations.

[SaveAmerica]

109. When did he say that Martin jumped out of the bushes?

Because if I'm remembering the police video of Zimmerman's re-creation of the attack, he said something about getting out into the clearing between the buildings, seeing Martin who then came toward/confronted Zimmerman.

I went back to re-fresh my memory and at 9:56 you hear Zimmerman say that the first time he sees Martin at the time of the physical attack, he hears him (Trayvon) from behind him (Zimmerman) and he said 'You have a problem with me?". They really do need to use the tape against Zimmerman.

So agree with your cheese comment.

Re-enactment of the night Trayvon was shot, Zimmerman's comment at 9:56.

&feature=youtu.be

It goes with that saying about telling the truth, you don't have to remember your story matches up and Zimmerman's story doesn't match up.

[DallasNE]

129. Don't Know If It Was A Different Tape

But Zimmerman is on tape saying this. http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/21/justice/florida-teen-shooting

Note too that Zimmerman is claiming a short discussion continued after the shot was fired. The autopsy showed that Martin was shot through the heart from straight on and the jacket on the bullet fragmented causing both lungs to collapse. There is no way that Martin uttered even a single word after the shot was fired given the condition.

[SaveAmerica]

139. Thanks for the info, I really hope they bring up all these

inconsistencies.

[Lurks Often]

101. A non athletic 5'8" and 200 pounds is overweight

The ME report lists Martin at 5'11" in RIGOR which is relevant. I'll grant the possibility that the camera MAY have gave an inaccurate impression of Martin's height. However with media reports stating that the family stated Martin's height at 6'2, we have conflicting information, which I am sure will be addressed at some point by the defense.

As to the ME's report, I don't have a strong enough grasp of anatomy to answer your questions, the description of the bullet's path through the body seems to conflict with the statement that the bullet moved directly from front to back. I'm sure the ME will explain it when he testifies.

[uppityperson]

87. Autopsy report says 5'11"

[Lurks Often]

98. Yes, 5'11" in RIGOR

it says that 5'11" was what he measured at when in rigor, so it is entirely possible he was actually taller when not in rigor. Something supported by family statements and the convenience store still photos from the security camera where Martin is significantly taller then the store clerk who testified on the stand that he (the clerk) was 5'10". There was a reason the defense asked the clerk that question.

While it is entirely possible I missed the testimony, I don't recall that the prosecution has ever asked or stated what Martin's height and weight are.

[uppityperson]

110. I have never ever heard of someone losing 3 inches due to the temporary effect of rigor mortis but

then it has been a while since I did a post mortem pathology class.

For those who do not know, rigor mortis lasts only 2-3 days then the body loosens up again.

Sorry but it makes no sense that he'd get shorter when stiff. If his back was fully arched or twisted, any competent pathologist would take that into his report.

[Lurks Often]

112. Which means we have conflicting information as to Martin's height

since the ME says 5'11" in rigor and family statements that Martin was 6'2". We also have Serino's testimony implying Martin was significantly taller then Zimmerman.

Since I don't remember the trial addressing Martin's height yet, we'll have to wait for that to be addressed.

[uppityperson]

113. I would like to see a reputable link stating that rigor mortis makes people shrink. Otherwise will

have to go with what was measured.

ETA a link which says nothing about losing height. http://campus.doccheck.com/uploads/tx_dcmedstudscripts/7264_pathologie.pdf

[Lurks Often]

115. I was merely pointing out conflicting information

Neither the ME or the family have any reason to lie, but they give differing heights.

[pnwmom]

124. How could Serino testify that the body was taller than Zimmerman?

Did have have Zimmerman lie down on the ground to compare?

[Lurks Often]

126. Did it ever occur to you that that maybe they measured

Martin's body at the scene?

[pnwmom]

127. No, it didn't occur to me, because Serino didn't testify that he measured Martin.

There is no indication that his first statement was anything more than a guess -- a wrong guess.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/02/justice/zimmerman-trial-updates/index.html

Updated at 10:52 a.m. ET

Serino says there was quite a height and reach difference between Zimmerman and Martin.

Updated at 10:54 a.m. ET

"After somebody dies, they don't get taller?" asked prosecutor de la Rionda. Serino says he wouldn't dispute the medical examiner if Martin's height was measured to be 5'11"

[Lurks Often]

132. I have seen media reports that stated the family said Martin was 6'2"

Has the height been mentioned in court so far?

This link has 6'0"
http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=247690

"How do Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman compare in terms of body size?

There is some inconsistency in reports of Martin and Zimmerman's height and weight. In the original police report, Martin is described as being 6' tall and weighing 160 pounds. But his family told CBS News that he was 6' 2" and between 140-150 pounds. Zimmerman is described in the police report as standing 5' 9" tall, with no weight listed. In a 2005 police report, Zimmerman's ex-fiance describes him as 5' 7" and according to the Miami Herald he weighs about 200 pounds.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57407115-504083/trayvon-martin-shooting-what-do-we-know-/

So who is right? The family? The ME? Or is there another explanation that allows both numbers to be right?

[pnwmom]

133. 145 would be skinny for 6 foot 2.

I knew someone that height and weight, and his build was much thinner than Trayvon's most recent photos.

[Lurks Often]

135. Martin weighed 158 pounds at time of death.

Page 125
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf

and no I can't explain the differing heights between family statements and the ME report.

I'm curious if it'll be addressed in the trial and explanation.

[pnwmom]

136. Lots of men claim to be taller than they really are.

Just like lots of people claim to be thinner.

[JDPriestly]

85. Is the autopsy report on Trayvon Martin in that report?

[Lurks Often]

99. Yes, starts around page 125 n/t

[notadmblnd]

63. I think Zimmerman is the one that said "hey you got a fucking problem?"

and Trayvon replied that no he didn't have a problem and I think Zimmerman then said "well you do now" At that point, I think Z went to grab Trayvon and Trayvon said "get off" "get off me" as the young friend of his testified. George may or may not have had his gun drawn then and that is when Trayvon began screaming and fighting for his life.

I don't think GZ got his nose broke or head slammed into the pavement by Trayvon, I think GZ ran into a small low hanging tree branch near the scene. He stated himself in the re enactment video that he tripped or fell.

I think at some point in the tussle, Trayvon may have gotten on top of GZ and when that happened, GZ shot Trayvon and that is why Trayvon was found face down with his hands underneath him and not as GZ described, which is that he got on top of Trayvon and splayed his arms out after the shooting because he thought he missed and believed Trayvon was still a threat.

[arcane1]

64. There were small trees in the general area, after all

and that might explain the tiny pinhole wound(s) on his nose.

[notadmblnd]

65. did you see the re-enactent video?

Take a look at it if you haven't. There is a tree right in front of him at the point in the video where the cop asks where Trayvon came from. I think it's possible that it is the very tree.

[DallasNE]

66. The Entry Point Of The Bullet

Suggests a fairly high likelihood that the bullet would have struck bone and at least partially deflected the angle of the bullet. Only if it happened to go between the ribs would they be able to truly determine exact angle but then the bullet should have passed all the way through the body if that was the case. Also, it wouldn't matter who was on top because the bullet should have gone at an upward angle either way. More telling would be whether the bullet went at a slightly inward angle as well or was straight on. If it was straight on, how could Zimmerman have gotten the gun in that position if Martin was on top of him. In other words it could be conclusive but a lot suggests that it won't be because of the likelihood the bullet hit a rib. We'll soon find out.

Note, I am not an expert so I am only visualizing various possibilities.

[ceonupe]

72. Selfdefense ammo is designed not to exit the person shot but to expand and cause maximum internal in

Selfdefense ammo is designed not to exit the person shot but to expand and cause maximum internal injuries.

shooting from retention is a skill taught and very useful.

Depending on if TM had not passed Zimmerman Guard (defensive position on your back) Zimmerman may have had even more access to the weapon than if TM had passed his guard it would have been more difficult for GZ to access his holstered weapon.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

45. And Zimmerman claims -

he was trying to "slide out and squirm" which caused his shirt to go up and reveal his gun -- indicating was he moving under Martin downwards, putting his waist and holster even further away from Martin's reach. He said he felt Martin reach down his side towards the gun, but Zimmerman got to it first and was able to unholster it and fire it. If Martin was reaching for the weapon why was Zimmerman able to retrieve it so easily? Why was there no struggle for the weapon between the two?

So much does not make sense.

[ceonupe]

73. depending on the type and position of the holter and the gun

many holsters are much more difficult to unholster the gun from the opposite angle and only readily deploy without getting stuck when the wearer of the holster deploys it not someone attempting to take it.

[ceonupe]

71. from the retention position

actually if you take a force on force cobat handgun coruse you will go over this. You will use airsoft replica guns. you will also shot your real side arm (at target) from the ground with one hand on both sides and back.

But yes in a fight you can possibly retrieve your side arm when on your back and fire a round. GZ's gun like most defensive handguns on the market and almost all modern service pistols (except US Mil guns) dont have external on/off safetys.

But yes you can draw and fire from retention.

what is not know is if Martin had passed GZ's guard (defensive position in wrestling). if Martin had not passed his guard it would have been easier for GZ to draw from holster.

[LiberalFighter]

120. How does Martin take his hand off of GZ and still have enough stability

to attempt getting the gun? GZ's testimony about that doesn't wash.

[pintobean]

8. Maybe the radar is out of calibration.

He vary well be telling the truth. At a minimum, his story shows him to be incompetent, cowardly and stupid.

[JDPriestly]

17. And too dangerous to be free on the streets.

I hate to say that about anyone, but Zimmerman is a megalomaniac and dangerous. The way he categorizes people as suspects?

I don't even think that police officers do that. I walk past them, and they smile. Maybe it is just me, but I don't think that real, experienced police officers view anyone with a hoodie and something in their hand who is walking around in the rain in a subdivision at night as a criminal. I think a real police officer would look for more signs of illegal activity than that?

Zimmerman was a hunter looking for prey. And that is how the defense needs to show him. I do not want Zimmerman out on the street. I think he is a danger to himself and others.

But, this time, the jury may let him go, because he rightfully gets the benefit of the doubt. And we don't want it any other way. Not one of us, because he might not be guilty of murder 2. So, the jury will decide.

(But I would still not want Zimmerman walking down my street at night if my grandson were out talking to a friend on his cell phone.) A police officer would have handled this oh, so differently.

I once worked in a building where we could look down and watch the police making drug arrests very frequently. In fact, the police would use our office as a lookout occasionally. The police are very patient and don't go crazy like Zimmerman did. I have watched a policeman in a stand-down with a crazy man with a knife (from that window). He stood there, patiently until there were I don't know how many squad cars there. A good police force does not act like Zimmerman at all. You have to be a basically good person to bear the responsibility of a policeman.

Do the police make mistakes? And sometimes, though rarely, deadly ones? Yes. But the ones I have known were not acting like Zimmerman.

[mountain grammy]

35. Agree. He's proven he cannot function in society as a law abiding citizen.

In fact, he's known to stalk and murder law abiding citizens (allegedly.)

[brush]

13. About that witness

He had to recant his original statement to the police that he saw TM "raining down blows onto zimmerman — MMA style."

He had to admit in court that he just saw downward motion. zimmy, by the way, was the one taking MMA training, not Martin.

And one other big thing, zimmerman is a proven liar. He lied in court to the judge about his finances. And anyone who believes that cock and bull story from zimmerman that he just got up and walked away from having his head "repeatedly bashed" onto concrete is either naive, stupid, in denial, or their judgment is clouded by their biases.

Human heads + repeated concrete bashing = concussion, cracked skull, semi-consciousness, or knocked totally the fuck out.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, just gets up from that with nothing but a couple of small scratches and a little blood (note: there was no blood even found on the sidewalk where zimmy said this allegedly happened).

zimmerman is a lying sack of you know what who thinks people are stupid enough to believe such crapola.

And remember, zimmy has a history and a record (Martin had no arrest record) of #1, an arrest in a bar where he punched an undercover cop, #2, a restraining order by a girlfriend who was battered by zimmerman in a domestic violence incident, #3, he got fired from a job for manhandling a woman at a party where he was hired as security. A co-worker who witnessed it said he has a Jeckel/Hyde temper. None of that is admissible but he clearly has a history of confronting or attacking others - particularly weaker opponents.

EVERYTHING points to GZ attacking TM, not the other way around. That killer needs to go to jail.

[JDPriestly]

22. But if Zimmerman was the person making the downward motions,

then did Trayvon have any injuries that could have resulted from them?

Is the story about someone making those motions just a story?

If not, who was making the motions and who was at the receiving end of them?

Has the autopsy information on Trayvon been brought into evidence yet?

Did Zimmerman try a clumsy form of CPR on Trayvon? That would have been the worst thing possible, but the autopsy report is essential. I take it that has not yet been entered into evidence. The pictures of the bullet wound were shown. What was the testimony about it?

[brush]

26. IMO, it was a made up story

Martin's body had the bullet wound to the chest and a scratch on the knuckle of one little finger, hardly what would be evident if he was "raining down blows onto zimmerman" as that one witness said to police but had to recant in under oath testimony.

I also think the whole "repeated head bashing" of zimmerman by TM is a cock and bull story made up on the spot by zimmy to cover his ass from just murdering an unarmed teen.

It's starting to sound more and more implausible as more credible police witnesses testify.

Wait until Serino, the lead detective, testifies. He didn't believe zimmerman that night and wanted to arrest him but was overruled by that chief (probably got a call from zimmy's judge father) who got fired.

[John2]

50. It has and

let me point out something significant here, neither the prosecution or the defense would point out. The prosecution maybe because of incompetence.

The aggressor wouldn't neccessarily land the most punches or injuries on the victim, if that victim is fighting for their life. I can approach someone and grab them in a vice. I could also end up on the ground, with the victim throwing punches at me to get away. Usually a female victim would probably scratch their assailant.

George Zimmerman doesn't show any evidence, he fought back as if his life depended on it, with the lack of injuries on Trayvon. Trayvon could have hit Zimmerman on his head or in the face, fighting for his life if Zimmerman had him in a vice like grip with a gun in his chest.

Trayvon had two injuries. The gunshot wound in his chest and small abrasions on his knuckles. It indicates he fought back.

Zimmerman on the otherhand, had injuries to the back of his head and a injury to the nose. He also had sore buttocks or something. Where Zimmerman has no injuries are to his hands and knuckles. The only offensive wound he landed on Trayvon was a gunshot wound to the chest. There is no evidence at all Zimmerman fought back with anything except a gun.

The only scenario that could happen is the one I mentioned above. Why would someone fighting for their life not have injuries on their hands or knuckles, or no indication of injuring the attacker except a gunshot wound?

Then I also pointed out the problem with Good's testimony claiming what he saw. Zimmerman made the claim that he told one of the witnesses to help him subdue Trayvon before he got shot. That could have only been Good. Good never testified to that and I have a problem with someone saying they saw a person getting beat to death and calling for help. My problem is Good claims he left and went to call 911. I don't believe Good's testimony. I believe Good embellished what he saw to support Zimmerman's account after the fact. Zimmerman claims there was no lights in the area and it was too dark to see Martin. According to Good, it wasn't.

[DallasNE]

82. Above In This Thread The Autopsy Link Has Been Published

If someone was on top of me I would cross my forearms in front of my face while attempting to buck the person off, possibly even turning on my stomach. If the person attempted to punch below the defense then it would be an opportunity to come out of the defensive position and grab his arms. That is what I witnessed a couple of years ago (I called 911 from my cell and the cops were there in less than 2 minutes to break it up - it was 2 blocks from the main police station). Oh, and the bigger guy started it by shoving the other guy as he rode by on his bicycle for no apparent reason, then after the biker picked himself up off the street, went after him but the bigger guy was quickly on top but the biker successfully grabbed each wrist and saved himself from getting the crap beat out of him -- and then the cops arrived. Without a gun, that is what would have happened in Sanford, FL. The difference is size was almost certainly less than the 46 pound difference between Zimmerman and Martin.

[Atman]

20. "That is really extraordinary for any suspect to do."

Except you completely ignore the fact that he was not being treated as a suspect. He was being interviewed, not interrogated, by friendly police inclined to agree with him from the get-go. Why spend the money on an attorney when things were initially going so well. He was a wanna-be "cop" who was being treated as if he were among his peers.

[DallasNE]

30. Only Partial Corroboration

Corroboration that Martin was on top but Zimmerman has said Martin was pounding his head into the sidewalk, not throwing down MMA style blows. Someone has suggested that Martin did both but that is not the testimony. And why was Martin's body far back from the sidewalk, as shown in police pictures, if Martin was on top and pounding his head into the sidewalk.

Also, if Martin was trying to sneak up on Zimmerman, why would he continue to talk on the phone to his girlfriend. In fact, is that how Zimmerman found Martin -- he heard him talking on the phone.

The crime scene physical evidence I am seeing is not being friendly to Zimmerman.

[prole_for_peace]

41. The sidewalk thing is one of the most damning in my mind.

So they were wrestling on the sidewalk, Zimmerman shoots Martin but somehow Martin ends up on the grass on his stomach with his hands under him. Not even on the grass bordered the sidewalk; feet away from it.

One of the many things that doesn't add up.

[DallasNE]

53. Just Now The Cop Serino Said Zimmerman Told Him Martin Struck Him 25-30 Times

Zimmerman is a hell of a man to take 25-30 blows to the head, on the sidewalk nonetheless, and never lose consciousness and while that is going on, pull out his gun and shoot Martin right through the heart with a lucky shot.

[arcane1]

58. His face held up pretty well, too!

30 punches and all he got was a bump on his nose.

He should've taken up boxing.

[WinkyDink]

39. Why am I not surprised?

[pnwmom]

57. I don't think so. I think Trayvon's friend's testimony was FAR more credible

than Zimmerman's.

And her initial reluctance to be a witness just increases her credibility.

There is also witness testimony from a witness who saw a man in a black and red jacket on top -- so that cancels out the other witness who thought Trayvon was on top.

[DallasNE]

83. She Is The Only One That Has Not Altered Their Story

Yes, she made a couple of fibs in an attempt to keep from being drawn into the case but when it comes to the details of what was said and what happened, she has been solid. And nothing that has come out later challenges what she said except for Good who doesn't seem very believable. She even corrected Zimmerman's attorney's a couple of times on dates -- my thought is the lawyers deliberately put out false date/time data to trip her up but it backfired on them by adding to her credibility -- then I loved her "very retarded, sir" comment regarding a defense theory.

[pnwmom]

88. I hope the jurors had the same reaction to her that you and I did. n/t

[ceonupe]

96. except by her own admission she added the get off me get off me

except by her own admission she added the get off me get off me

besides that she was consistent.

the problem is she shows that TM was also racially profiling (albet wrong). i don't by the argument that Kracker is just slang. Its a racial epithet just like nigger. It shows that TM was amped up and racial charged prob just like ZM.

We dont know who started the fight but know there was one

Travon was killed as a result of said fight

maybe manslaughter but not 2nd degree murder.

hope they have the police ready for the riots on verdict day.

[Punkingal]

59. Allowed it?

He was loving every minute of the attention he was getting when they were doing that video. He was acting like the cop is his buddy chum pal, and it's just another day. I asked my son who was an Army scout and sniper if he could act like that the day after he killed a teenager and he said no.

GZ hasn't lost a wink of sleep over killing Trayvon, IMO, but no doubt he's losing sleep over what his sorry life is going to be now. I have watched every minute of the trial and the only time he shows emotion is when they show pictures of HIS injuries. No expression whatsoever when they show pictures of that poor CHILD lying dead in the rain and cold.

He called Trayvon a punk! He's the one who is a punk, a coward, and a bully. He disgusts me, and so do the pundits who act like they are watching a play. An innocent kid died needlessly, and that is what people need to remember.

[rhett o rick]

121. I am glad to see someone sticking up for Zimmy. But I am having some trouble with your logic.

"His statements about the case have apparently been very consistent," "Apparently"? You are not sure? If they werent consistent, how do you conclude which is true?

"he was very willing to speak with the police w/o getting a lawyer or anything. He even was willing to be videotaped by the police at the scene, later, as he explained what happened. W/o a lawyer present. That is really extraordinary for any suspect to do. Those things all lend credibility to his version." I disagree. This isnt "extraordinary at all for a suspect and he wasnt a suspect. He consider himself a victim being interviewed by the police.

Zimmy followed Martin even after being told not to. He therefore had a reasonable expectation of a confrontation. Appears to me he was seeking confrontation. He got into a fight that would not have happened if he hadnt followed Martin. It is no justification to kill someone just because you are losing a fight. Did he fear for his life? When did that start? Not when he, armed with a gun, followed Martin, not when he approached Martin, only after Martin started defending himself did Zimmy start "fearing for his life".

You cant start a fight and kill someone when you start losing the fight.

[Rex]

137. No that is not what he said at all and your projection

of the events is telling. Please don't cry too hard when Zim goes to prison. I cannot believe all the lies people make up for this murderer. Oh well, then there is just this shit stirring post to look at. Sad really and it worked. Hope you are happy with yourself.

[frylock]

5. i think GZ has gun out already as well..

how does he unholster it if, as he alleges, Martin is straddling him and beating GZ within an inch of his life.

[HappyMe]

9. I agree.

[ceonupe]

74. if Martin has not passed his guard he still has ready access to his side/hip

if Martin has not passed his guard he still has ready access to his side/hip

[JoeyT]

90. Being straddled is past guard.

He claims he was straddling him and raining down punches, which means he wasn't inside a guard. Allegedly he had no control or leverage over Trayvon, ("straddled&quot yet had the presence of mind to draw a firearm while being hammered in the face. I don't believe there's a person on this Earth that's so tough they could ignore the instinct to not be hit in the face long enough to draw a gun. Especially when they have to reach past another person's hip.

If he were inside guard, the scratches wouldn't be on Trayvon's knuckles, they'd be on the bottoms of his hands or bottom of his forearms: You can't lean back to throw straight blows from inside a guard so you have to settle for hammerfists or rabbit punches. Doubly so for Trayvon and Zimmerman, since Zimmerman allegedly had training and definitely had a forty or fifty pound weight advantage.

Add to that how badly someone, even someone completely untrained, would completely annihilate a face when they've got unlimited leverage, they're fighting for their life, and the person on bottom doesn't have the leverage to stop or even slow the punches, and Zimmerman's story doesn't add up at all. Even a handful of blows would've left him gushing blood from a busted lip or broken nose. That happens even in MMA type fights when knuckles are padded to prevent them from cutting.

[ceonupe]

94. you obviosly have not watched non trained urban street fights

go to worldstarhiphop.com and notice the fight clips of the week. almost all of the mounted ground and pound videos do not show the person ontop passing guard.

yeah street fighting i know but that is what this altercation can best be described as.

it is very interesting to watch all of the networks CNN and MSNBC start to draw back and redirect their analysis of the trial. they are preparing their audience for the likely outcome of a not guilty verdict on the 2nd degree charge. Combine that with the jury instruction that 911 operators have ZERO authority under the law and you can see why even MSNBC has started to present more balanced coverage.

As the facts come out it looks less and less like 2nd degree murder.

[pacalo]

6. Zimmerman's story sounds contrived to me, too.

I agree that Zimmerman was treated with kid gloves during the investigation.

I'm anxious to hear Serino's testimony after the video is done. I'm wondering if he will do a turnaround like Singleton did today. On the tape, she questioned Zimmerman's inconsistencies & seemed skeptical; she seemed to want to help the defense today on the stand.

The fact remains, though, that Zimmerman should not have gotten out of the car; he should have left it up to the police to check out Trayvon.

[Lugnut]

11. The fact remains, though, that Zimmerman should not have gotten out of the car; he should have left

it up to the police to check out Trayvon.

And there it is...period. This whole incident never needed to happen.

[pacalo]

12. It's the crux of the case, Lugnut.

[CitizenPatriot]

21. exactly

how does someone he was following "confront" him? By following them, after already calling police, he is the person instigating a confrontation that never would have happened if he had not pursued Trayvon. Pursuit negates "defense" in a reasonable state.

[DallasNE]

38. Not If Someone Jumps Out From Behind A Bush And Sucker Punches Him

Oh, wait, there were no bushes. And how does one sucker punch someone while holding a cell phone to his ear with one hand and a bag containing skittles and an iced tea in the other and also engaging him in conversation as testified to by the girlfriend. Where is the element of surprise. It looks to me like Martin was not satisfied by Zimmerman's response to the question "why are you following me" and initiated the physical confrontation. None of this comports with Zimmerman's comment in my title.

[Lugnut]

42. That's pretty much the way I see it.

The whole confronting thing was being done by Zim who insisted on leaving his truck when he was told not to.

[HardTimes99]

29. And, more to the point, a human being is dead who should not be. TM might have been another

Einstein or Salk, but now we will never know, thanks to Zimmerman taking the law into his own hands. To me, this whole incident has smelled and continues to stink of vigiliantism under color of the law.

There was no reason for TM to die that I can see. He had committed no offense to justify his murder.

I'm not following the trial closely because I'm afraid I would get too upset. So I rely on reading about it here.

[tblue37]

123. There is no evidence in Trayvon's life to

suggest that he might have become another Einstein or Salk--and truth be told, hardly anyone ever does become another Einstein or Salk.

But any "great" potential accomplishments he might have achieved are entirely beside the point.

Even ordinary people--and even sometimes rebellious or troublesome teenagers--have a right to live and to go about their business without being stalked and shot by grandiose cop wannabes when they are in fact not doing anything illegal.

If being a potential Einstein or Salk is the standard we must live up to in order to have a right not to be stalked and shot by the likes of Zimmerman, then I'm afraid that most of us are in real trouble!

[HardTimes99]

125. I agree 100%. I don't think I expressed nyself

very clearly. Wanted people to understand what a needless waste of human potential by someone not entitled to waste it. Your comment is most definitely appreciated!

[JDPriestly]

14. Sharp analysis.

But then, you know juries.

[cynzke]

15. It will be interesting to see the Prosecution.

Point out the inconsistency of GZ's statements to the physical and forensic evidence. For instance, wasn't GZ still on the phone with dispatch looking for an address when he claimed Travon stepped out and circled his car? Wouldn't you think GZ would have mentioned that to the dispatcher? Why would Travon do that in the first place? He's in his own neighborhood, why confront another neighbor who is just driving through? It seems to me that scenario was completely made up by GZ because at the time GZ wasn't aware this was a kid walking where he had a right to be. In GZ's mind this was someone who did not belong and GZ made up the "circle the car" bs to make the "suspect" look more sinister and suspicious to bolster his statement. If someone circled your car in a aggressive manner, most people WOULD STAY behind locked doors. But GZ doesn't....perhaps because this was probably a lie in the first place? Also GZ's story does not match the girlfriend's testimony about what she heard. Is that because GZ wasn't aware that Travon was on his cell phone and that someone was overhearing what both Travon and GZ said. The "hiding in the bushes" story sounds contrived too. Who hides in the bushes and then jumps out to say "why are you following me"? GZ knew he was not suppose to follow Trayvon, so he had to make up the story that it was Trayvon who jumped him from some "bushes".

[arcane1]

27. Just like when he told the dispatcher that Martin looked like he was "on drugs or something"

or whatever the exact words were. He was bullshitting before he even got out of his car.

[BobbyBoring]

16. I'm a bottom line person

and the bottom line is, had Z just stayed in his fucking car, this wouldn't have happened. I too think Z had the gun out. He proves something I've said for years. The most dangerous person in the world is a coward with a gun.

[obama2terms]

24. I am wondering how he got a concealed carry permit

He had assaulted a police officer and had gotten in trouble for domestic violence. Even in a major pro-gun state like mine ( Tn.) they have a law that says if you have gotten in trouble for domestic violence you can't have a concealed carry permit. Florida might be different, but it's hard to believe that someone with a record like that could easily obtain one.

[bobclark86]

25. I wouldn't say coward, but yeah.

Let's face it: A coward would have just bought a ton of guns and fortified their house, probably triggering a Waco-style raid.

GZ strikes me more as, well, a dumbass. If the dispatcher tells you not to follow someone, or not to get out of your car, then yeah, you're a dumbass. A dumbass goes looking for a fight. A coward boards up their doors and hides in their basement. A normal person calls the cops and goes back to watching American Idol.

I honestly think nobody — yes, nobody, as the brain has funny ways of re-writing itself after tragic events — actually knows what happened that night. Identifying who was "right" or "wrong" in the fight is something for the jury to decide.

But you are right: It shouldn't have been a fight at all.

[ceonupe]

75. sorry but you should have stayed in your car does not equal 2nd degree murder

sorry but you should have stayed in your car does not equal 2nd degree murder.

That's the prosecutions problem here compounded by the fact the jury will be instructed that the operator has ZERO authority to issue commands. So we are left with 2 people both sides say are hyped up racially. GZ racially profiling and TM doing the same. Both were wrong to an extent.

My grand dad told me when we were young "never fight a grown man they may pull a gun and kill you were you stood." he would follow up with grown men dont fight and you dont know who has a gun. Confronting your problems with violence will only place you in a bad position.

[KurtNYC]

19. The star witness for the prosecution isn't Jeantel -- It's Zimmerman.

Prosecutor said so in opening statements and it is playing out now.

Serino knew it didn't add up.

[vlyons]

23. Z claims that Trayvon was smothering him

So if Trayvon had his hand over Z's mouth and nose, so that he couldn't breathe, how was he able to scream? Duhhhh. My BS meter went off with that lie.

[DallasNE]

84. And Where Was The Blood From Zimmerman's Split Lip

It wasn't on Martin's hand(s). The defense said that the rain washed the blood off the sidewalk and Martin's hands (that were under his body) but didn't wash the blood off Zimmerman's head and face. (BS detector rings loudly).

[Vattel]

31. Seriously?

You say: "why on earth if I'm about to be attacked and I'm armed why would I reach for my cell phone?"

Um, maybe he reached for his cell phone because he didn't yet know he was about to be attacked?

[JH19059]

37. Easliy...

In Zimmerman's own video walkthrough statement he stated that when he encountered Trayvon, Trayvon asked him (I'm paraphrasing here) if he had a problem and started to walk towards him. Zimmerman stated at that point he looked for his cell phone. If I'm following a person I suspect to be involved in illegal activity and that persons begins to walk towards me in a threatening manner I'm not reaching for my cellphone at that point.

[dmr]

46. Instead of cell phone, maybe he was looking for his gun, n/t

[noiretextatique]

51. yes...that makes sense

within all his lies lays the truth. he meant to reach for that gun.

[Vattel]

103. I guess you are more prone to use a gun than I am.

I would reach for my cell phone to call 911 unless I knew that an attack was coming.

[olegramps]

32. I fear that the many will blinded by racism on both the sides.

Since it appears that Travon Martin was being followed and confronted it would seem that it was he who would have been justified in protecting himself. I am inclined to think that Zimmerman had upholstered him gun before confronting him and Travon could have feared for life. What I object to is the continued referral to him being as being a Neighbor Watch member. The national Neighbor Watch organization absolutely forbid its members from ever being armed with any weapon and are instructed to never approach anyone. They are to observe and call the police if they have any concerns.

[WinkyDink]

36. Your post's body has no correlation to its title.

[noiretextatique]

47. it seems that already happened with the police

who seemed to take zimmerman's word for what happened, at least in terms of investigating the crime scene. the only racism that will matter in end is in the hearts and minds of the jurors.

[WinkyDink]

34. Insightful. And Z goes from TMI to "I have a bad memory" = "Here are the only lies I've conjured."

[Nuclear Unicorn]

40. Something doesn't make sense.

why on earth if I'm about to be attacked and I'm armed why would I reach for my cell phone? Answer.. he didn't he went for his gun or in my opinion his gun was already out when he confronted Trayvon. Trayvon in fear of his life fought but was overpowered.

If I'm reading this correctly -- Zimmerman produced his gun and Martin fought with him and Martin was able to inflict injuries as seen in evidence. But then, supposedly, Zimmerman "overpowered" Martin without Martin sustaining injuries. Then Zimmerman shot Martin once in the chest leaving Martin face down on the ground.

According to your portrayal:

Was Zimmerman standing over Martin when he fired his weapon?
At what angle did the bullet strike?
How did Martin end up face down?
How does an already injured man overcome the other person without inflicting noticeable injuries?
Why would Martin attack rather than flee if he saw the gun you claim was already produced?
How do you establish the weapon was already produced?
Even if you have a weapon out and someone attacks doesn't that still fall within the legal bounds of self-defense based on a reasonable fear you could suffer death or serious bodily injury at the hands of the attacker?

[russspeakeasy]

43. I have a question. GZ said that TM punched him and broke his nose.

Later, GZ said that TM was covering his (GZ's) nose and mouth with his hands. Was there blood on TM's hands?

[dmr]

48. No, no blood. I've a question, too.

Did Trayvon punch GZ in the nose, or did GZ slip on the wet grass and smash his nose on the edge of the sidewalk?

I bet it would have pissed GZ even more if Trayvon laughed at him.

[noiretextatique]

52. some people also mentioned gun recoil

i know nothing about guns, so i don't know if that is the correct term. but some people who do know about guns said z could have been injured by the gun when he fired.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

76. If Martin had coldcocked Zimmerman -

and made his nose bleed then tried to smother him as Zimmerman claims, there would be traces of blood on Martin's hands AND the blood on Zimmerman's face would be smeared around his face -- which was not the case from the pix taken immediately after the killing.

[russspeakeasy]

79. Exactly.....that to me is the smoking gun.

[TorchTheWitch]

77. not only no blood

but not a single cell of Zimmerman's DNA.

Sorry, but there is no way that Martin was covering Zimmerman's bleeding nose and mouth with his hand yet had not a single speck of Zimmerman's blood or DNA on any of his hands. That little bit of drizzling rain that was happening and the wet grass could not have completely cleaned Martin's hands of the blood that should have been there in a rather significant amount from Martin hitting him in the nose.

I still believe that Zimmerman got his injuries to his nose from the gun kicking back. Particularly those two tiny abrasions to the tip of his nose with the little abrasion at the top of his nose coming from the ejecting bullet casing pinging him at that location as that's exactly how the gun Zimmerman had ejected the casings - out and toward the right.

The injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head are nothing more than two very small abrasions that were not deep with only slight swelling that was gone in hours. There's no way on earth those light injuries came from having his head repeatedly bashed into concrete. I believe that those light injuries came from his tussling on the ground with Martin rolling his head over some bits of sticks or small rocks in the grass. Every expanse of grass has bits of sharp things in it which anyone who has ever run over an expanse of grass in bare feet can attest to. And this was February when the grass would not have been thick and cushiony but much more sparse and short making any stones or bits of tree branches closer to the surface.

So much of Zimmerman's re-enactment is just rubbish that totally contradicts witness testimony, the basic facts, Zimmerman's previous statements, his own 911 call and the 911 calls of witnesses.

There's no doubt in my mind that Zimmerman had his gun out at the very first sign of any danger to him. There is no doubt in my mind that Martin was in fear for his life from this crazy stranger who had been following him around in his car and chasing him on foot through the complex and tried to protect himself from being killed by trying to get the gun away from him. There is no doubt in my mind that this was the entire reason for the fight, that Zimmerman never expected Martin would try to fight him off but would do whatever he asked meekly by having a gun pulled on him, that their tussling on the ground had everything to do with Martin trying to get the gun away from him while he screamed for help, that Zimmerman was afraid he WOULD get the gun away from him and so shot him dead, that the gun recoiled smashing Zimmerman in his own face and/or that Martin's body fell on top of him smashing the gun in Zimmerman's face, that Zimmerman rolled Martin's body off of him so he could get up which is why Martin's body lay face down on the ground MANY feet from the sidewalk with his arms and hands tucked under him, and that Zimmerman started pacing up and down until the Asian man with the flashlight showed up and confronted him while Zimmerman was on his phone calling someone.

[MyOpinion-2]

44. What I believe happened?

Based on what I’ve seem so far in the trail, GZ’s story sounds made up with a number of inconsistencies. What I believe happened? GZ hunted TM down like he was an animal. By TM being very frightened at the time, GZ confronted TM, which led to a fight. GZ was determined that TM was not going to get away, in his mind he had already judged, convicted and sentenced TM to death. I believe GZ is the one who said to TM, “You are going to die, MF.” GZ being the one with the gun, TM reacted out of fear.

Once upon a time, as a grown lady, I had a complete stranger following me from a store, I was able to run back to work and have my HR dept. call the police. They caught the man and took him away in the squad car. So I know how it feels to have a stranger tracking you. I believe it was TM screaming for help out of fear and I hope GZ gets just what his actions call for, Jail time.

[Politicub]

49. Zimmerman has no remorse at all

Even if someone shoots someone in self defense -- especially if that someone is an unarmed kid -- then wouldn't they feel guilty about snuffing out a life?

Or morally conflicted -- just a little bit?

The part that set off my bullshit meter was when he said that Trayvon told him that he was going to die tonight, or some such nonsense. No one really talks like that in real life.

[arcane1]

56. "You're going to die tonight, see? Yeah, that's right, copper!"

Best when spoken out of the side of one's mouth

[Nevernose]

61. And let's not forget

"Ahh! You got me!"

[arcane1]

62. "You dirty rat!"

I shouldn't be laughing at this, but sometimes the absurdity of it all gets the best of me.

[JDPriestly]

89. Now that you mention it, the you're going to die tonight does

not sound like an unarmed 17-year-old kid.

Not even a tough one.

[Little Star]

104. The no remorse point is what I've been thinking too.

[Little Star]

55. What did you think about Z asking if she was catholic? Was he..

possibly trying to set her up for bias because of her religion if he got charged? That was my thought when I heard that.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

60. Inconsistencies in Zimmerman's accounts...

Zimmerman story #1: I was screaming for help!
Zimmerman story #2: "That doesn't even sound like me" (to the Detective playing the 911 tape)
Zimmerman story #3: Trayvon's hands were smothering me; I couldn't breathe!
Zimmerman story #4: Trayvon came from behind some bushes
Zimmerman story #5: No, it was so dark. I don't know where he came from.
Zimmerman story #6: He pinned my arms down. (Suggests Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman)
Zimmerman story #7: I asked for help restraining him getting his arms out stretched, etc. (Suggests Zimmerman was on top of Trayvon.)

Too many people here on DU giving this lying, racist sack o' shit the benefit of the damn doubt!

I ask WHY? Why are you doing this?

And why doesn't Trayvon deserve that same benefit? (That was a rhetorical question. I think I do know why!)

[Divine Discontent]

67. I know if the roles were reversed, the tune of millions would be a different song.

?w=487


http://www.zazzle.com/elizabeth_warren_alan_grayson_2016_bumper_sticker-128334336056089482?rf=238107662556833486

[renate]

114. I really think you're right...

That picture is worth a thousand words, and more.

I haven't been watching the trial but I am kind of amazed that there seems to be a chance that Zimmerman will get away with following an unarmed teenager, pursuing him against the advice of the 911 dispatcher, and killing him. I really don't think he'd have a chance if the pictures above had been real.

[yardwork]

68. It makes me sick.

People should be ashamed of themselves.

[ctsnowman]

97. Blows my mind

to see DUr's defending him. The other response to your post (with the pics) is the truth.

[Skittles]

81. Zimmerman's entire story is ridiculous

he's covering up, and very badly

[MrScorpio]

91. Absolutely!

Excellent points

[AnnieK401]

92. What really scares me is that if Zimmerman is in fact acquitted

it will embolden all the gun crazed vigilantes out there. And believe me they are out there, just read the Yahoo comments section. If he is acquitted we will probably see more and more shootings just like this.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

111. I'm not stating this to be cheeky, but I sincerely worry about my young black brother

my black male cousins, my uncles. They all live in the South.

I am so incredibly scared. This means that someone can approach them without cause, claim that they felt threatened, and use that excuse to shoot and kill.

How many times have young black males been followed or approached because they "looked suspicious". Now they don't even have to have a reason. Just shoot and kill.

It tells me that this country still has a problem valuing the lives of black people.

[Ian_rd]

93. If we try to become CSI wanna-bes and ballistic experts, then we're missing the larger point

We probably can't know exactly how Martin got shot because there are no witnesses to the moment of shooting. It might very well have been self-defense at that exact moment of time when the bullet left the gun. That is, maybe Martin was beating Zimmerman when Zimmerman was able to shoot Martin.

The larger point I think is that Zimmerman, armed, initiated a confrontation with an unarmed Martin who was not violating anyone's rights at that time. The result of Zimmerman's choice resulted in the death of an innocent person. At the very least, Zimmerman should not be able to dodge this basic culpability. In short, this never would have happened if not for Zimmerman.

If Zimmerman avoids all guilt, then Stand Your Ground will effectively mean that you can pick a fight with someone, and if they fight back, you can shoot them dead and suffer no consequences. This is the heart of the trial.

[AtheistCrusader]

108. Stand Your Ground is not at issue here.

The defense is not using that statute as a defense at all. They are claiming straight up self-defense only.

The only thing SYG may have factored in was Wolfinger declining to charge him the night of the shooting. Which is an issue and needs to be looked into, probably legislatively. (I do not like Florida's implementation of SYG, some other states have done it better)

[Shankapotomus]

95. I'm starting to not even believe

this Goode witness for the defense.

That he won't solidly commit to anything he testifies about who was screaming and who was on top makes me suspicious.

"I'm not sure but it looked like..." is exactly what someone would say if they are lying on the stand. I don't trust that guy.

[ctsnowman]

100. The whole

fucking thing is bull fucking shit. He should never have stalked TM in the first fucking place. We teach our children from birth to beware of strangers and when a stranger follows mine I would hope she fucking claws his eyes out. Zimmerman should never have confronted TM end of fucking story. Everything else in this damn trial is complete smoke and mirrors and may result in GZ going free.
If he does we shouldn't be surprised when riots erupt.

[Ford_Prefect]

102. If it was a white guy stalking a young black woman in the same circumstances it would be over.

Last edited Tue Jul 2, 2013, 11:57 AM - Edit history (2)

A kid with a bag of skittles and a cup of soda walking alone is a threat worthy of pursuit with a drawn weapon? No way!

Whatever Zimmerman claims to have seen this was stalking with intent to harm. Zimmerman was told to stand down and wait for Police. There was no life threatening situation for him to avert until he confronted Travon, if that is indeed what happened.

I've met more bullies in my 60 years than I like to remember and one of their favorite plays is to fool a weaker victim into making the 1st move and then punishing the victim for it. They have all kinds of ways of making it happen but they always tell the story that the other guy started it and they were only defending themselves and always far more forcefully than required. Bullies also react badly when a victim doesn't submit according to plan.

That pattern is what I believe played out here. Zimmerman stalked and set up Travon and now tells the lie of defending himself against someone weaker with the false conclusion that excessive force was necessary.

[John2]

106. These people

are trying to cover up a heinous murder. From the very start, they didn't want to prosecute Zimmerman. Zimmerman is an Adult male that killed a minor. Whatever these people try to make Martin out of, the facts are Zimmerman killed a minor, that weighed 40 pounds less than him and not much difference in height. Martin had a slim frame and Zimmerman was stocky.

Zimmerman had all the physical advantages on Martin. This is a 28 year old grown man claiming he was being beaten to Death in a fist fight by a newly turned 17 year old kid. How do they explain it away. Zimmerman was out of shape and soft, while Trayvon was this great athlete that played high school football linebacker. They make Trayvon out of this stud athlete. Everything about this trial is about racism, the way they describe the victim as a suspect and the Zimmerman as some good American boy, that always obeyed the laws.

When you look at the actual history of both, it is ridiculous. Martin has no past history of physical violence or attacking people. They might have used some brash talk from him on My space or something, but there is no evidence of him attacking anybody. It is just your typical juvenile pranks by teenagers.

Zimmerman on the otherhand has a violent history, which the Judge termed as run of the mill. So assault on a police officer and domestic violence in her definition would be run of the mill? He was not found innocent either but given a plea bargain. They said that he passed his background check for a gun also. Law enforcement also encouraged him to be a community watch person, after he volunteered. You ever try to get a job or apply with doing something for a Law Enforcement agency? You wouldn't believe the stumbling blocks they put up to go through a background check. You have to just about be a choir boy to work in law enforcement. What is it a year or so, he takes another person's life and claim self defense? And these people want to talk about Jenteal. So far I'm not impressed with the Justice System in Florida. There seems to be double standards here.

[gordianot]

105. It is easy to forget that at one time the Police and Prosecutor were willing to let Zimmerman walk.

That attitude resurfaced briefly in court in a burst of obvious ass covering. Trayvon Martin was correct George is a creep and is also a homicidal maniac. If Zimmerman had not killed Trayvon Martin he would be a Policeman by now. Zimmerman would also be a ticking time bomb who kills with no remorse. My suspicion is there will be a conviction of some sort for George Zimmerman if for no other reason he makes Florida law enforcement look bad. By now both the Prosecution and Defense knows George Zimmerman is dangerous, wait for the Psychiatrists to take the stand.

[AtheistCrusader]

107. Detective Serino did his job.

He recommended Zimmerman be charged. Wolfinger declined.

[gordianot]

116. Yes he did recommend charges that is the bottom line.

What I found most interesting was his advice to Zimmerman about after problems sleeping and possible other symptoms that he could get help if needed. Then he states that he did not believe Zimmerman is lying. The flat affect coming up in his testimony which continues with Zimmerman in the courtroom is another clue.

So George Zimmerman displays behavior that could be described as clinical paranoia, shows Little or no remorse he killed someone, creates a story which is implausible and believes it, refuses medical psychological assistance. The Psychological Psychiatric evaluation should be fascinating.

[ReRe]

117. Seriously...

This is more like the Travon Martin trial, not the George Zimmerman trial. If GZ didn't know the streets, then he was drugged. He knew those streets well, like the back of his hand. He was the self-proclaimed "Neighborhood Watch Captain" of the closed housing area.

We could have prosecuted this trial better than the state's prosecution team has, to this point. First off, I would have run GZ by the hospital to have his injuries documented and have his blood drawn just to verify the man was in his right mind that night. Was he indeed "in shock"? Why did he act so dazed (beside the fact that he had just killed Trayvon Martin?)

If I was the Martin family, I'd sue the county for how the police department handled the entire case. They should NEVER have let GZ walk that night. And frankly, it just seems like even the judge is on the side of the defense. Oh great, and now we get to listen to Hannity.

[noiretextatique]

118. they even tested martin for drugs...but not zimmerman

total FAIL. i hope the family sues.

[ReRe]

119. Really...

The whole thing has been "blame the victim."

[noiretextatique]

122. i feel so sorry for his parents

with all the shit zimmerman defenders are slinging...

[ReRe]

130. Just now, listening to the judge...

... I think she's intimidated by the defense.

[felix_numinous]

128. It was premeditated

Zimmerman wanted a confrontation and got it, and it turned out just the way he wanted. He didn't wait for police, he pursued this kid and killed him. He is an unstable bigot with a rage problem and no remorse and should not be loose in society.

I hope he gets a hard sentence, and a LOT of counseling.

[ReRe]

131. If the judge allows in the info...

... on GZ taking those classes with emphasis on self-defense/stand your ground law, then this very well could be pre-meditated.

[ChiciB1]

134. Well, It Seems From What I'm Hearing Today...

And I admit I haven't been watching the trial a close as some, but so many of the commentators are saying state case is "weak" and they don't think GZ will get convicted of anything!

Hard for me to take and/or believe given that so many people commenting here, and people I talk to, say that his whole story is essentially BS. These supposed lawyers or people of the law don't think that even though GZ's conflicting statements, interviews or anything else are prosecutable. Reasons given go from some memory loss, statements can change by time passing, witnesses give inconsistent testimony that can be viewed one way or the other, testimony not allowed or other differing issues.

Sooooooo, if this one goes SOUTH as I've seen many here in Florida, what's the use? I know it's not over, but most comments I'm hearing think he'll simply walk.

I don't know why I should care about much of anything anymore. What I've seen going on here in America from A to Z, just using that because I don't want to list line by line, isn't the America I grew up in. Day by day, chink, chink, chink I see we are losing more of our rights that I was taught a Democratic country stands for. So, we go about and spread democracy to a multitude of countries and at the same time, our democracy is eroding bit by bit.

My cynicism grows more and more as each day goes by. The only answer I see is for people to rise up and fight back in unison, but THAT is NOT going to happen. Too few are unaware until hit in the face, and too many don't care much anymore. I'm aware, but am beginning to wonder WHY I should care. Not only does it hurt too much, it's depresses me to a degree that I'm unable to get past go on a given day. A very unhealthy way to live a life.

[felix_numinous]

138. I feel the same

and just when I think 'perhaps I'm obsessing too much' .. I look at what's happening overseas.


Good people that just can't take it anymore. If there was any sign we were not on that same trajectory, I would celebrate that.