ZIMMERMAN TRIAL: Day 6, Monday, July 1, 2013

[GreenStormCloud]

Let's combine the various comments into one master thread on the trial.

Live feed, no commentators, no commercials: http://www.mediaite.com/uncategorized/live-zimmerman-trial-jury-selection-day-6/

[GreenStormCloud]

1. Trial hasn't started. Various evidence pictures being placed in front of camera. N/T

[GreenStormCloud]

2. Trial is resumed. N/T

[GreenStormCloud]

3. Nakasone, FBI expert on voice recognition on stand. Forensics. N/T

[Tommy_Carcetti]

4. Wonder how much they can testify regarding voice analysis.

The judge didn't let the state present the expert whose analysis affirmatively ruled out Zimmerman as being the voice crying for help on the 911 call (thus inferring that the voice was likely Trayvon's).

However, I'm guessing other voice analysis could still be brought in. Will be interesting to see what he testifies.

[chelsea0011]

5. He is going over the process and then he will not offer an analysis?....

the jury will be confused by that.

[Lurks Often]

7. Nakasone has offered an analysis

which it is impossible for anyone to determine scientifically who was screaming by the audio clip.

Which leaves the testimony of the parents with both Martin's mother and Zimmerman's father convinced it was their child screaming and Martin's father, who has given conflicting answers, initially saying it was not his son and then changing it saying it was his son. (There could be other family members called on both sides)

Because Martin's parents are present in the court room, it is my understanding that they will not be called as witnesses. (Zimmerman's parents are not allowed in the court room as they apparently will be called as witnesses and allowing them in the court room could alter their testimony)

[Tommy_Carcetti]

8. Interestingly, when confronted with the call, Zimmerman himself said it didn't sound like him.

The a link to police interview is in the attached article:

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/trayvon-martin-trial-quote-police-interview

Just another curious Zimmerman inconsistency.

[Lurks Often]

10. And Martin's father, when first asked, stated it did not sound like his son n/t

[Tommy_Carcetti]

14. But we have Zimmerman himself, who he himself now claims he was crying for help....

...saying, "That doesn't even sound like me."

[Lurks Often]

19. Is there any evidence that will convince you Zimmerman is not guilty?

And the prosecution needs to prove it wasn't Zimmerman screaming and since Zimmerman appears unlikely to take the stand, the prosecution would seem to have a problem.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

24. If there was a witness that saw Trayvon ambush Zimmerman out of the blue...

...and then saw him merciless beat Zimmerman without Zimmerman having any type of chance to defend himself except him having to shoot Trayvon.

That would help convince me Zimmerman was not guilty.

Of course, there's no such witness to date. The best witness for the defense's standpoint has been John Good, and his testimony is still far from a definitive corroboration of Zimmerman's account.

[WinkyDink]

210. One might ask you the obvious companion question, might one not?

[Lurks Often]

215. Sure

Proof that Zimmerman either displayed or had his gun in hand and threatened to shoot Martin when they first encountered each other.

Proof that Zimmerman was not in fear of death or grave bodily harm

Proof that Zimmerman's injuries were caused by something or someone other then Martin

[GreenStormCloud]

26. Trivial.

None of us sound the same as we think when we hear ourselves on a recording. Hearing yourself scream would really sound strange.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

28. I trust you think the same....

....about Tracy Martin's initial remark that it didn't sound like Trayvon, correct?

[GreenStormCloud]

146. Tracy wasn't Trayvon.

We all sound different to ourselves when we hear a recording of ourselves. So naturally Z would not sound like himself to Z when Z listened to a recording of himself. However, Tracy alway hears Trayvon as Trayvon sounds to others because she is an other.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

149. Tracy's a he.

So you are saying that it's irrelevant that Zimmerman admitted that it didn't sound like him on the 911 tape, but it is relevant that Tracy Martin said it didn't sound like Trayvon on the 911 tape?

[GreenStormCloud]

222. Yes.

Z was listening to himself. Tracy wasn't listening to himself.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

223. Again, Tracy's a he. nt

[GreenStormCloud]

224. OK. Corrected it.

Just got off night shift. Typing isn't so hot. Will go to bed soon.

[pipi_k]

27. Meh...

I've heard recordings of my voice and said the same thing...it doesn't sound like me.

And if I'm involved in some highly emotionally charged incident, I'm less likely to remember much of anything that happened.

Not sticking up for Zimmerman, just stating that there are reasons for things that don't involve deception...

[uponit7771]

63. That's the father not the person, Zimmerman said it didn't sound like him

[Lurks Often]

71. We'll have to see what the jury decides, won't we. n/t

[WinkyDink]

211. So that means this is your final post on the topic, correct?

[Lurks Often]

212. Nope n/t

[woolldog]

40. Wrong.

The victim's family may be present in court and still be witnesses per Florida law.

The real problem is that Martin's father said previously that the voice screaming for help was not his son's. He's changed his story apparently. The defense will have a field day with that.

[Lurks Often]

51. Ok, wasn't aware of that part of FL law n/t

[yeoman6987]

100. Zimmerman

One thing I would love to hear is the head of the Homeowners Association and rules that cover patrolling the neighborhood. It just seems strange to me that they have not said anything (that I am aware of). What are the rules covering guns? calling 911? stalking? etc. Why has this not been a big part of the trial and evidence? Give me that list of rules and procedures for his "job".

[Lurks Often]

147. Any HOA rules and/or policies would not be legally binding.

Under the law, both had every right to be where they were and since Zimmerman had a pistol permit, he had every right under the law to carry the gun. So the reason it hasn't been brought up is it just isn't important one way or the other.

[yeoman6987]

175. Any HOA rules and/or policies would not be legally binding.

Thanks for the explanation. I always wondered, but that makes sense.

[GreenStormCloud]

6. West says he plans to call Nakasone as a defense witness.

This is going bad to worse. This trial is becoming a train wreck for the prosecution.

[premium]

12. It is my opinion that the DA's office

overreached by charging Zman with 2nd degree murder, maybe it was public pressure, maybe the DA honestly thought they could win the case, who knows, but, if they'd charged him with Manslaughter, I think they would've had a better chance of a convicted.
You're right of course, this trial is turning into a train wreck for the prosecution.

[GreenStormCloud]

16. I also think they overreached. Manslaughter would be much better. N/T

[demwing]

79. Manslaughter doesn't apply

does this really need to be repeated daily?

[Voice for Peace]

132. why doesn't manslaughter apply?

[premium]

134. It does,

it's the lesser included charge.

[demwing]

189. In Florida, this is automatic

It happens by default, not through the application of specific guidelines.

Zimmerman is claiming self defense. Self defense is justifiable homicide. Manslaughter - by definition - can never be "justifiable."

See you tomorrow!

[premium]

192. Thank you for the info.

You have a great day and we'll see you tomorrow.

[Voice for Peace]

94. according to lots of sources the manslaughter charge is included

so the jury can find him guilty of manslaughter
if not 2nd degree.

(I post this with the caveat that I don't know
whether this is accurate information.)

[premium]

95. I was corrected downthread,

apparently the lesser included charge is manslaughter.

[NoGOPZone]

35. I'm not too familiar with Flordia law or the testimony given so far

but since this case is such a 'train wreck' for the prosecution, I assume that once the prosecution rests the defense will make a motion for a directed verdict, which the judge will then grant.

[GreenStormCloud]

38. Possible, but I hope the judge doesn't grant it.

The political pressure for a complete trial is too great. The defense needs to present its side and the jury needs to decide.

[NoGOPZone]

41. My understanding is that it is often asked but rarely given

but if the case is indeed a train wreck, that would only be fair. Of course, the judge may not feel that based on the testimony given so far, a reasonable jury could only conclude not guilty

[Lurks Often]

53. Unlikely a Directed Verdict will be granted

Asking for a directed verdict is a standard defense tactic, but I have heard that judges rarely grant a directed verdict when there is a dead body involved.

[NoGOPZone]

55. Yes, often asked rarely granted is my understanding

but if the case is indeed a train wreck, it should be granted.

[chelsea0011]

84. Uhmmm. I doubt the judge will give a verdict in a trial where Zimmerman has

already admitted shooting walker.

[premium]

91. Who's Walker? nt.

[GreenStormCloud]

9. Doris Singleton, Sanford PD officer, on stand. N/T

[riverwalker]

11. she did not believe Zimmerman

in earlier accounts (so this will be interesting)

[riverwalker]

13. she recorded inital interview with Zimmerman n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

18. They are playing the recording. N/T

[Tommy_Carcetti]

15. Doesn't matter.

The case is a "train wreck" for the prosecution.

So sayeth the online pundits.

[premium]

17. So sayeth the NYT also. nt.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

20. Wasn't aware the NYT was a juror in this case.

In the end, everyone's opinion except six specific people is wholly irrelevant and totally speculative.

[premium]

22. In the end

it matters not what anyone here thinks or believes, it's what the 6 women on the jury believe.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

25. Yes, that's what I just said. nt

[WinkyDink]

213. NS, S. So why do keep at it?

[Nye Bevan]

75. Yes. How dare newspapers opine on stuff (nt)

[magical thyme]

21. unlike the Guardian Online, which on Friday said that the prosecution had set things up

so that Zimmerman would practically be forced to testify. Time will tell.

[premium]

23. You're absolutely right,

time will tell.

[pipi_k]

30. Come on now...

It's their opinion, which they have a right to have...and it's just as valid an opinion as that from people who don't feel it's a train wreck for the prosecution.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

32. Pundits gonna pundit. nt

[pipi_k]

42. They will indeed...

and people are going to invalidate the opinions of whichever side they don't agree with...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

44. True.

But I wouldn't base my opinion on how a trial is going simply by how certain legal analysts claim it is going. I'd put very little stock on such analysis.

Most analysts thought Jose Baez was in over his head in the Casey Anthony trial and that a conviction was all but guaranteed.

[Roland99]

39. Local Fox News channel over the weekend was running taglines such as ....

"Can the Prosecution come back?"


Like it was a freakin' baseball game or something.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

43. Here's the thing about legal "analysts" in high profile trials.

I know this from people I personally know.

They are almost always former prosecutors or criminal defense attorneys, and they relish "game playing" a trial they aren't personally involved in, much like fantasy baseball or fantasy football. So they see things the way they want to see, and argue things the way they want to argue.

And many of them will either have law practices that will benefit simply by their exposure, or true crime books that will be sold by their exposure.

It's all great fun for them, but irrelevant in the long run, given that no one knows what the jury is actually thinking.

So that's why I say, pundits gonna pundit.

[LittleBlue]

29. These tapes aren't helping the prosecution. nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

34. Why do you say that? nt

[LittleBlue]

36. I would expect to see some kind of inconsistency

That's partially why police take statements so soon and in such detail. They want an inconsistency in case the person of interest committed a crime.

Usually tapes like this are played by the prosecution to ask why the accused changed his account at a later date, usually to conform to his argument at trial so it doesn't contradict convincing evidence. These tapes seem consistent with all other evidence. If there is some smoking gun inconsistency, I can't see it.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

37. It's one interview out of many.

Zimmerman was interviewed by multiple officers at multiple times.

Might want to be a little bit patient.

Note for example in this interview he says he got out of his car to get a street address.

[HipChick]

31. Well damn, the murderer was being treated like one of the boys. The only thing they didn't do was

give him a fucking police badge..

[Tommy_Carcetti]

33. "I guess he was upset that I called the police."

Zimmerman's position on what motive Trayvon had to "ambush" him.

How would Trayvon have known Zimmerman called the police?

[korak]

59. Easy assumption, since Z was on phone when T approached it.

T saw Z on phone, in this scenario. But then "calling the police" might not be something that is done in T's world. I really wish T was still alive! But then we would not be having this discussion. I also wish some of these so called inquiring reporters would locate some of T's peer group and talk to them, but they are probably keeping a very low profile!

[WinkyDink]

214. So Trayvon assumed. And THEN Z assumed. Lotta assumptions goin' on---sez Georgie.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

45. So Zimmerman's written statement claims that Trayvon was looking into homes?

Yet he never mentioned that to police dispatch or in his prior verbal interview?

Interesting, very interesting.

[madaboutharry]

46. The police officer reading Zimmerman's statement is making one thing clear:

Zimmerman is full of shit. This narrative is a fabrication.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

47. Zimmerman's description of Trayvon as "the suspect"

I honestly think he went to the police station that night thinking that police would determine he did nothing wrong, any inconsistencies or embelishments of his story be damned.

[riverwalker]

54. lest we forget the "my daddy is a judge" card n/t

[HipChick]

48. So the policeman cannot read cursive either?

[GreenStormCloud]

49. Some people have crappy handwriting. N/T

[GreenStormCloud]

50. Z claims TM comletely circled his truck.

No proof of that.

[riverwalker]

52. Z didn't know the name of his street?

Officer Serino's testimony will be interesting as well. Hope it's today. Also, there are no bushes where Z says 5'11 Trayvon "hid".

Serino challenged him further: "How do you not know the three streets in your neighborhood [where] you've been living for three years?"

[justanaverageguy]

56. I don't know the streets in my neighborhood that I have lived in for 5 years.

I know the name of the street that I turn on to get into my community and the street that I turn on to get to my house. Other than that I may be able to name a couple of other streets in the neighborhood if I really thought about it but I'm not sure how accurate I'd be.

[avebury]

58. The difference is that Zimmerman was a

member of Neighborhood Watch. How can you patrol an area and yet not know the area well enough to give a location to when calling a potential incident into the police? The neighborhood was not very big.

[belcffub]

60. I am a firefighter who responds to EMS calls in my neighborhood all the time

and I keep a map in my visor because I can't remember the street names... lived here for 14 years now... someday I'll get them down...

[avebury]

64. You are probably dealing with more then

3 streets though. 3 street names is not a lot to have to remember. If Zimmerman could not remember a specific house number he easily could have said the street name and how many houses to the east/west/north/south of whatever starting point which would have gotten the police pretty close to the site.

[belcffub]

65. you are correct...

I have more then three to keep track of... but I am not good with streets so I tend to be forgiving for others with this...

[Incitatus]

76. He called the cops almost 50 times to report incidents.

I find it very hard to believe he couldn't figure out where he was.

It is also strange that the shooting happened away from the street and behind the homes. That indicated to me that he was defnitely following TM and not just looking for an address.


http://static.squarespace.com/static/505b177be4b076e2a247fba8/505b2076e4b029a6a90ad4e3/505b2078e4b029a6a90afe1b/1333759387377/1000w

[uppityperson]

88. Are the addresses posted on the backyard side as well as street side? It does seem very off.

[Atman]

80. You have to keep track of them? My street is right where I left it every time I come home.

He lived here for three years and was supposed to be on "neighborhood watch." I wouldn't feel too comfortable with an NW captain who can't remember three streets.

[uponit7771]

61. +1

[justanaverageguy]

105. Good point n/t

[WinkyDink]

217. WTH relevance is this? Z was a WATCH-CAPTAIN.

[madaboutharry]

57. CNN has Ashleigh Banfield and some "pundit"

Last edited Mon Jul 1, 2013, 01:27 PM - Edit history (1)

saying that Zimmerman had no basis to make stuff up the night Trayvon was shot. WTF? How stupid is that?

[Little Star]

66. I agree it was a stupid comment.....

In my opinion Zimmerman was a long time cop wannabe. I think he has studied long and hard the way cops talk, act and what they find plausible. Personally I think he is a bald face liar. I can't imagine anyone ever being as calm as he was after just killing someone. It just does not compute.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

68. Pundits gonna pundit. nt

[avebury]

62. From Zimmerman's own statement to police.

11:33 a.m. ET: "There's been a few times where I have seen a suspicious person in the neighborhood, and would call the police non-emergency line, and these guys always get away," Zimmerman told investigator Singleton.


OK - If "these guys always get away" - why didn't Zimmeran make the call on the 911 line?


11:45 a.m. ET: Zimmerman tells Singleton said Martin circled his car, and then he went back into the "darkness," while he was on the phone with the police.

OK that part just does not make sense to me. He stated earlier: "He (Martin) was walking causally, and it looked like he was trying to get out of the rain," said Zimmerman.

So why would he then say Zimmerman circled his car?



"He jumped out from the bushes, and he said 'what the [expletive] is your problem homie?' And I got my cell phone out to call 911 this time, and I said 'I don't have a problem.' And he goes, 'no now you have a problem,' and he punched me in the nose," said Zimmerman.

In prior courtroom testimony, I do not recall any mention of bushes tall enough to hide Martin.


"He is mounted on top of me, and I just shot him, and he falls off. And he's like "Alright you got it, you got it."

That is pure BS. The autoposy results indicated that he would have did pretty quickly. I doubt that he had any time to say anything.

Quotations taken from: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/07/01/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-day-6

[NatBurner]

69. he also said that he spread TM's hands apart

after he shot him

photos and testimony shows that TM was found with his hands underneath his body

[Little Star]

130. yep

[GreenStormCloud]

70. Martin would not have died instantly.

With a heart shot the brain and muscles still have oxygenated blood in them. Typically a heart shot person still has about 10 to 15 seconds of life left in them. That is time enough for some last words and last movements. Likely he would have jumped backwards at the surprise of being shot. I think Z didn't hear TM correctly, due to his own ears being impacted by the muzzle blast of his gun. Likely TM said, "You shot me!" in surprise at being shot, then collapsed.

[uponit7771]

81. ...

[uppityperson]

90. Z spread TM's hands apart, then tucked them under his body before cops got there?

[GreenStormCloud]

144. Unknown.

But it is a simple fact that a heart shot isn't instant death, although it is pretty quick. Only a bullet through the brain stem is truly instant, or a major bullet hit that splatters the whole brain.

[WinkyDink]

103. Maybe this dialogue will find its way into the TV movie.

[Nevernose]

198. But then why is no blood on Zimmerman?

If Marrin were on top of Zimmerman when Zimmerman shot him, and Z had to roll the fatally wounded and presumably bleeding kid off him, why was there not a single drop of TM's blood on Zimmerman?

[GreenStormCloud]

201. The heart stopped pumping instantly.

So there was no blood pressure to force blood out of the body. TM's clothes (Sweatshirt + hoodie) would have caught the small amount of blood that would have come out of the entrance wound.

Even with the heart stopped, the brain and muscles would have had enough oxygenated blood for a few seconds activity.

[Nevernose]

203. There would still be some blood

Not huge, gushing amounts, granted, but not a single drop? Not even after allegedly struggling out from under the body?

I think this is a good example of one of the fascinating aspects of this case for me: taken individually, there is reasonable doubt on many issues. At what point does a jury decide that, when added all together, the doubts aren't so reasonable anymore?

[GreenStormCloud]

206. Small amount of blood, caught by TM's clothes. N/T

[Atman]

67. I'm just not finding Zimmerman's testimony credible at all.

From his written statement -- in formal "cop" style -- to the many inconsistencies, it just isn't adding up.

For instance, he now claims he was not "following" Martin, although that's not what he has been stating up until now. Suddenly, he was looking for the name of his street. Now, to the posters upthread who claimed they don't know the names of the streets in their neighborhoods even after years, remember, Zimmerman was supposed to be heading up the Neighborhood Watch program. You would think that he'd be a little more familiar with the local streets after patrolling them for years.

Also, what's with the story about Trayvon jumping out of the bushes now? Bushes which the police indicated don't even exist, as pointed out on the neighborhood map. But why would Trayvon be jumping out of the bushes? I thought Zimmerman was following him? So, the kids jumps out of the bushes and sucker-punches Zim, according to his latest statements. Statements which also include that the two of them had words which just don't sound plausible. Were they exchanging words, or was Trayvon laying in wait to jump out of the bushes and sucker punch Zim? So, let me get this straight...he jumps out of the bushes in the dark, and then they have a brief conversation? Why didn't Zim just cap him then? And none of the witnesses saw or heard any such exchange of words, just the screams for help.

It just doesn't add up, imho.

[uponit7771]

72. +1, first officer who interviewed him said Z showed that he didn't know T was dead. Yeap, Z was...

...acting

[premium]

73. Ahhh, so you were there?

When do you testify? I don't want to miss it.

[Atman]

74. Standard old DU throwback.

Of course, none of us "were there." But if we're listening to testimony, we're certainly able to make observations about what we're hearing. Thanks for your concern.

[premium]

77. I am listening to the testimony

and the prosecution isn't doing a very good job so far.
I've testified in enough criminal cases to know that as it stands right now, the prosecutions case is weak as hell to support a 2nd degree murder charge.
They overcharged and I don't see a jury convicting him of that charge, it would have been better to charge him with Manslaughter, which, IMO, would have been easier to prove.

In the end, it doesn't matter what either of us think, it's what the jury thinks.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

87. He is charged with manslaughter. It's the lesser included charge. nt

[premium]

89. Good, because, IMO, if the jury votes to convict

that will be the charge.

[uponit7771]

83. Yes, now what?!

[premium]

86. So when do you testify?

I certainly don't want to miss it.

[uponit7771]

97. Thursday...

[premium]

98. Well, I'll certainly look forward to it.

I assume that this is a picture of you.

[Atman]

102. Give it up, premium!

People are allowed to shape opinions! We're listening to the same thing the jury is listening to, so we're bloody well untitled to opine about!

[WinkyDink]

107. Exactly. Every time there's a big trial, fuss-budgets admonish people with working brains.

[premium]

110. Never said people aren't allowed to shape opinions. nt.

[avebury]

119. Watching the video walk through that

Zimmerman did and I don't see any bushes large enough for Martin to have hid behind.

[arely staircase]

216. atman

also, I thought the one interview when they were going through the tape of the call with Z, created some problems for him. 1. It is the one where he says I wasn't following him, just walking in the same direction - and the detective says "well, that's following him." And also points out that isn't consistent with "fear" on his part. The detective also said he was having a hard time understanding why T would have been running from him other than "because you were following him."

[Ninga]

78. Strange female police officer thinks nothing special about Z referring to

Trayvon as the "suspect.

[uponit7771]

82. Good quetsion, why would he put his gun back if he thought TM was alive?!

[LittleBlue]

85. I can't tell whether she's a prosecution

witness or a defense witness. She is testifying that she saw Zimmerman remorseful, and is now telling the jury that God wouldn't blame him for shooting Martin. She sounds credible. The prosecutor is now looking frustrated.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

92. CHRIS SERINO CALLED TO TESTIFY

This was the lead detective who wanted to charge Zimmerman from the get go based on inconsistencies in his story and what he believed were underwhelming injuries in contrast to what Zimmerman was claiming.

Could be a big witness.

[Marrah_G]

93. These fucking cops are incompetent

[Skidmore]

96. It seems to me that Zimmerman's story kept getting more elaborate with the telling.

And with no explanation that he was remembering something that he had forgotten to tell before.

[Marrah_G]

99. And the cops NEVER interrogated him as a suspect, just as a VICTIM

[Gin]

101. Z had hollow point ammo in his gun......I thought only cops used that....

[belcffub]

106. most defensive ammo is hollow point

not uncommon at all...

[ksoze]

108. Incorrect.

You may be thinking of certain "cop killer" bullets which received fame years ago. Hollow point bullets are legal and sold at Walmart.

[SlipperySlope]

200. Hollow point ammo is the standard choice for self defense

Last edited Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:13 PM - Edit history (1)

Hollow point ammo is the standard choice for self defense purposes.

Full metal jacket (aka "ball&quot is used primarily for practice because hollow point is more expensive.

Hollow point is also generally considered safer in some regards because it is less likely to "overpenetrate" and hit someone else.

[chelsea0011]

104. So, wait a minute. Did Zimmerman just say that Martin saw him immediately

when he was in his car and before Zimmerman called the police in this tape? Martin knew he was being followed from the very beginning?

[WinkyDink]

109. The "Before" Z looks MUCH more intimidating than the "Now" Z. Interesting. IMO, Z started a fight he

couldn't finish---except by the gun. That is, he thought he was a tough guy without one at first.

[Ninga]

111. Imagine if you are a jury person, believable or not as you watch this video?

[WinkyDink]

112. I'm not watching as closely as I would be then, though. But I find Z's "Yes, Sirs" obsequious.

[avebury]

120. I just don't believe Zimmerman. The video walk through

does not show any bushes big enough for Martin to have hid behind.

[KurtNYC]

113. "after I shot him he sat up" !!

I thought Trayvon was on top ?

[WinkyDink]

114. From bearing down to a sitting position. But I don't believe Z at all, anyway.

[uppityperson]

117. Z then spread TM's hands, held him on his back yet TM was found with hands under his body. It boggle

boggles the imagination.

[Myrina]

122. Maybe if the force of the shot pushed him BACKWARDS into a 'sitting' position

... before he fell flat and Zimmy rolled him over (Martin was found on his stomach, IIRC?)

[Tommy_Carcetti]

115. Playing the video walkthrough by Zimmerman

*Claims he got out of the car to confirm the street he was on

*Said after the dispatcher advised him not to follow he continued on through to Retreat View Circle to get address

*Claimed he told dispatch he would meet them at the car (actually told dispatch to have police call him)

*Said he told person after shooting Trayvon to help him restrain Trayvon (has this been corroborated?)

[WinkyDink]

116. Oh, NOW Z is claiming he was surprise-attacked! And he's SOOO injured! Poor Georgie! Excess details

= PSYCHOPATH.

[uponit7771]

118. LYING his BUT off about what the FP said

[Ninga]

123. How did Trayvon supposedly jump out from behind the bushes when

the bushes I saw in the video were growing next to the houses and not so big???

[uponit7771]

126. TM was superman, beat up a guy who trained MMA 3 days a week and had a gun so...it wouldn't

...surprise me if TM just "flew" over the Bush's /sarcasm

It's killing me the number of gating inconsistencies in GZ's statements

[chelsea0011]

121. The neighborhood watch captain doesn't know the name of the few streets in

his neighborhood? He wants us to believe he was out for a walk looking for street nmaes and numbers and not trying to follow Martin and then was attacked by Martin in a surprise.

[Atman]

125. Worst. Watch. Captain. Ever.

Good lord...maybe everyone in that neighborhood does need a gun with this buffoon "protecting" them!

[grok]

127. only called in a 911 every couple of months

over 8 years. Not much neighbourhood watcher. Would have gotten somebody else.

[riverwalker]

124. the walkthrough

if it was pitch black dark, why did Z tell them that during the fight " he saw Trayvon's eyes look at his gun"?

[uponit7771]

129. ...not only that but the cop that showed up first did NOT notice a gun and had a flashlight!!

...we talked about this point last night

[WinkyDink]

128. WTH...Is Z flirting with this female cop? What's with the LAUGHING?

[uponit7771]

131. Audio is horrible

[uponit7771]

133. GZ describing other break ins

[uponit7771]

135. GZ: TM didn't look like a marathon runner

[WinkyDink]

136. Oh, RIGHT. "And another thing: He walked up to my car and put his hand in his waist-band." Bwahaha!

[WinkyDink]

137. "To be honest with you" = LIAR. AND strongly implies he had been LYING UP TO then. "Bad memory." Oy!

[riverwalker]

138. Zimmerman "I have a terrible memory" n/t

[avebury]

139. For someone who claims to have a really bad memory

he sure is able to come up with a lot of "details."

[WinkyDink]

141. Just like a normal liar.

[WinkyDink]

140. OMG. "He was suffocating me. He was going to kill me."

[Tommy_Carcetti]

142. So he had to scream for help. nt

[uponit7771]

148. THIS PROVES IT WASN"T Z!! Z claimes TM had was covering his mouth!! How in the world

...was he screaming for help!?!?!??!?!

[ksoze]

150. Relax. He didn't say his mouth was covered the entire time

[uponit7771]

151. Don't relax, there's no "muffle" in the 911 ladies call those were OUT LOUD screams before

...the shot and none of that sounded like someoen was smoothering someone else

Z's sequence is IIRC

- He tried to smother me
- he went for my gun
- I got there before him and shot him.

Also, how in the world did TM even see his gun seenig it was "pitch black" and Z's jacket was covering it!?!?

regards

[ksoze]

155. He never said his mouth was covered the entire time.

So your theory is it must be T who is screaming for help as he covers Z's mouth from screaming?

[uponit7771]

159. the entire time is irrelevant...what was before the shot was taken

Is what I'm talking about

[ksoze]

162. Obviously the mouth covering is moot after the shot

I did not see anywhere where anyone testified that Z's mouth was covered the time when the screams were recorded.

[premium]

169. Nobody has testified to that, not even the Zman.

Come to think of it, the Zman hasn't even testified yet, and at this point in time, I don't see his lawyers putting him on the stand, but we've still got a ways to go.

[demwing]

196. "The ZMan"? LOL

You really are crushing hard, aren't you? How the hell do you gather the nerve to pretend yourself an objective, fact focused, voice?

Not just "ZMan".... "The ZMan!

Truly fucking laughable...

[Anansi1171]

207. THIS!

Keep reading and these Zimmerman fetishistas that parade through this thread clowns at a circus. The "Zman"...the "Z-ster"...the Z-MEISTER! Z-vereeno. Zeee...that righteous dude who has just doing his solemn duty.

It pathetic the distortions to which they will adhere to see a victim in George Zimmerman. It says much about them.

[uponit7771]

188. Z's second recored statment to Serino....regards

[premium]

166. OMFG, you've broken the case wide open

Shame on those trained prosecutors for missing that. That's it, game over, we can all go home now.

[riverwalker]

143. reading the audio transcript to follow along

the audio is so bad, it helps

http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php?topic=2144.0

2/29 Serino - Tape 1
2/29 Serino - Tape 2
2/29 Serino - Tape 3

[uponit7771]

145. This tape blows Z defense WIDE FREAKIN OPEN, Mutiple chanses to ID himself and didn't take it

[riverwalker]

152. Serino is devastating to Z story

I've never read these transcripts before wow

[premium]

153. Well I guess that's it, he's guilty,

be sure when you testify on thur. to tell the defense that, ok?

[uponit7771]

154. Yes, when I testify on thursday case will be closed no doubt...I got video

...of the whole event soo...

Yeah

[WinkyDink]

156. OFGS. Just stop. What will you say if Z's convicted? "Wait for the appeal!"?

[premium]

158. I said consistently that I believe he's guilty,

not of 2nd degree murder, more likely Manslaughter, but, I can be convinced otherwise if the evidence shows it, so far, I haven't been convinced otherwise, but we've still got a long ways to go.

[noiretextatique]

157. please stop pretending your don't have an opinion

if you don't, then stop posting in this thread.

[premium]

161. See post# 158.

And for future references, you don't get to tell anyone here where they can or cannot post.

[noiretextatique]

174. isn't that what you are doing?

why, yes...it is! typical hypocrite.

[premium]

178. I've not once said I didn't have an opinion,

but, unlike a few here, I'm willing to listen to ALL the testimony, including the defense's before I make up my mind definitively.

[noiretextatique]

181. and you can do that...i think the bastard is guilty as sin

and i can believe THAT. see how it works?

[premium]

182. And I never said you couldn't have an opinion.

See how that works?

But it's funny as hell to watch one person in particular here who seems to be having an orgasm of joy thinking that they've got the Zman, when the trial is barely started.
I'm laughing my ass off here.

[WinkyDink]

190. So your sarcastic "When you testify" carries zero implication re: holding an opinion?

And "I guess that's it; he's guilty."

How disingenuous.

[premium]

194. So I'm the only one being sarcastic here, right? nt.

[WinkyDink]

218. Oh, mais non. But you are one of a few who adds nothing BUT.

[riverwalker]

180. I will

that, and how interesting to watch guys like your constipated Georgie. You can almost hear their testicles shrivel up and fall on the floor like sun dried raisins, once you take the gun away and have to face a no bullshit man like Chris Serino.

[premium]

184. Considering I was a

Federal Law Enforcement Officer for 30+ years, your description doesn't apply to me in the least.
BTW, Zman isn't my man, he's his own man and if he's found guilty, then he will pay the price, regardless of what happens, his life will never be the same again.

[riverwalker]

185. then get used to people discussing

the case on a "discussion board" ok?

[premium]

186. Where did I ever say they couldn't? nt.

[WinkyDink]

191. Then why keep adding sarcastic replies?

[riverwalker]

195. However, he will have a life

Trayvon will not.

[chelsea0011]

160. Someone who has been watching right along might be able to answer this....

Has any of the interviews or tapes have Zimmerman saying he saw Martin talking on the cell phone because I haven't in my limited watching seen him say that.

[uponit7771]

165. good, question....I haven't heard anything....regards

[JVS]

170. IIRC Trayvon's friend Rachel was talking about a bluetooth headset.

You know, those things people clip to their ear and it looks like they're walking around talking to themselves.

[chelsea0011]

177. And that would make me even more suspicious of Zimmerman's account

because anytime I see people with bluetooth, it gets me looking cross-eyed at them as I think they are talking to me or nuts. Zimmerman is staying away from normal behavior if he is skipping the fact that someone would be on the phone. Can't let Martin look like he really was just out for walk.

[Lurks Often]

197. How does Zimmerman know Martin had Blue tooth?

It's dark, raining and Martin had the hood up.


And yes, if you don't know that they have Blue tooth, they do seem like they are either talking to you or crazy or both.

[Gin]

163. Zimmerman didn't have an attorney at the reenactment because he was using the SYG law as his

Defense.......he was sure he could do that with no recourse.....but....he isn't using that defense at trial.

[uponit7771]

164. LC - "...you were CHASING HIM!!..."

[uponit7771]

167. 911 tape has NO MUFFLING before the shot!! Z Claims TM was covering his mouth

[Tommy_Carcetti]

168. Zimmmerman claimed Trayvon was smothering him RIGHT BEFORE he shot him.

Except that the screams continue all the way up to the gun shot.

Pretty clear screams for help of someone supposedly being smothered.

[uponit7771]

172. +1, Zimmerman - "....THAT DOESN'T EVEN SOUND LIKE ME!!!..." freakin wow!!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

173. I told people to wait for the Serino testimony before they start judging the case.

Serino wanted to charge Zimmerman from the get-go. For whatever reason, the DA didn't want to go along.

[uponit7771]

179. Serino IS the star, RJ was a head fake!! Nice going PA's

[riverwalker]

176. exactly

Serino: Listen to this one.
(playing a witness 911 call and questioning at the same time)
Serino: You’re that voice in the background?
Zimmerman: No, sir.
Serino: That’s you. Are you hearing yourself?
Zimmerman: Um, it doesn’t sound like me.
Serino: It’s you.
(listening to the 911 call)
Serino: OK, right there. He smothered you, correct?
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: At what point did he smother you?
Zimmerman: After…
Serino: Was it right before you shot him?
Zimmerman: Right…yes, sir.
Serino: OK. Immediately behind the shot?
Zimmerman: (sigh) I don’t remember.
Serino: OK.
(plays 911 call again)
Serino: I need you to give me an approximate time of when he starts to smother you.
Zimmerman: I don’t know when. It’s hard to…
Serino: That’s you, yelling for help.
Zimmerman: (unintelligible)
Serino: Help me, help me.
Serino: That’s when you shot him. (clears his throat) Can you recall (coughs) excuse me…at what point the suffocation happened? Prior to, prior to you shooting him, he was on you, correct?
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: OK. And you were able to reach into your holster.
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: OK. You shot him at point blank range. He was on top of you, right?
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: OK. And in the middle of all that yelling, nobody came out to help you. And I can’t, I can’t pinpoint where you were smothered. That’s the problem I’m having. And nobody’s saying they saw him smothering you. People are saying they saw you, saw him on top of you, but they didn’t see about the smothering part. So…
Singleton: And when we’re listening to the screaming, doesn’t sound like there’s a hesitation in the screaming. It sounds like it’s continuous, and if someone’s being hurt (imitates scream being muffled) It’s gonna stop. But we don’t hear the, we don’t hear it stop.
Serino: We don’t hear him at all either. Was he being quiet, is he whispering to you or something?
Zimmerman: He’s telling me to shut up.

[Nevernose]

199. Zimmerman claimed the screams weren't his!

At least during the police interview.

[HockeyMom]

220. Having heard Zimmerman speak,

how about they play a recording of Trayvon's normal speaking voice. Make your own conclusion based on BOTH of their speaking voices.

[Nevernose]

221. How about we just take Zimmerman's word for it? n/t

[uponit7771]

171. BOOM! Serino - "....I can't tell at what point he was smoothering you...." because if it was Z...

....screaming for help how in the world was TM smoothering him and Z being heard throgh the 911 tape!?

[riverwalker]

183. trial resumes

Juror had a question. The audio is so hard to understand, will they have a chance to hear again?. Judge says they will have copies for deliberation.
(Hope they will have written transcripts too? I am assuming.)

[WinkyDink]

187. This lawyer has, unfortunately, an Elmer Fudd impediment.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

193. Which one, De La Ronda (state) or O'Mara (defense)? nt

[Soundman]

204. O'Mara n/t

[HockeyMom]

202. "I see you are wearing a Cross"

"I am a Catholic". Zimmerman and Police Officer. What the FRIG what that about? Why was there no OBJECTION to this? See, Georgie is a good Christian boy, just like you jury are good Christians". Is THAT the reason for this?

[polly7]

205. She answered that she was Christian, and he said well if you're

Catholic, taking any life is a sin (paraphrasing). She told him, 'well I don't think it means that if you're defending yourself' (again, paraphrasing).

[WinkyDink]

209. The lawyer's statement was bizarre on the face of it. Plenty of Catholic soldiers, e.g.

[displacedtexan]

208. My question of the day concerns Zimmerman claiming he rolled down his car windows

while he was talking to the dispatcher.

a. I didn't hear the sound of windows being rolled down during that taped call, did you?

b. Zimmerman now says Travon Martin circled his car while he was talking to the dispatcher. Does anyone remember anything about that during the taped call to non-emergency services?

Here's the link to the recap: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57591807-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-audio-of-neighborhood-watch-volunteers-police-interview-played-in-court/

Singleton asked Zimmerman what made Martin suspicious.

"I'd never seen him in the neighborhood...it was raining and he was walking leisurely, taking him time, looking at all the houses," Zimmerman said.

He said he pulled over his car to call the police non-emergency line. He said he lost sight of the teen, but that Martin soon returned and circled his car.

"As soon as I saw him, I rolled down my windows and stayed on the phone," Zimmerman said on the recording.

"He walked completely around the car?" Singleton asked.

"Yes, ma'am," Zimmermn replied.

On the audio, Zimmerman went on to say that the dispatcher asked him about the direction in which Martin had gone. He said he was looking for a street address to give the dispatcher and was walking back to the car when Martin confronted him, possibly having jumped out after hiding.

Looking up a street address, my ass. 3 streets in the complex, and Zimmerman has lived on one of them for years; plus, he appointed himself Neighborhood Watch captain and has regularly reported "suspicious" people? I'm not buying it.

[noiretextatique]

219. zimmerman's ever-changing story

adds another nail to his coffin.