Why is the Trans Pacific Partenership Pact so terrible? Here, precisely, is why.

[cali]

Yes, it's that bad and yes this lies at the feet of the President. So call the fuss over this republican made, but the problem with that is the republicans are largely with the President on this fuck the people atrocity. In fact, it's a bi-partisan fucking with just a very few dems standing against it. I suggest contacting your rep and senators. Not that I'm sanguine about that. still, we need to start raising a ruckus about this. Oh, and one of the reasons it's all so secret: The PTB don't want this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Seattle_WTO_protests

Which is exactly what they should get.


TPP: A Deregulation Treaty Not A Trade Treaty

The upcoming Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement is using a process that is rigged from the start. It is not being negotiated by governments for the benefit of their people, it is being negotiated by executives (or future executives/lobbyists currently in government) largely for the benefit of the giant corporations they serve. The process has these giant corporations “in the loop” but citizens groups, working people, consumers, the environment, human rights groups and especially democracy are not part of the process. That can only go one way: if you don’t have a seat at the table you are on the table — the meal.

Rodrigo Contreras, Chile’s lead TPP negotiator recently up and quit to warn people of the dangers this agreement poses to everyone except the giant multinational corporations. In The New Chessboard, (English translation) Contreras warns that the TPP is solidifying multinational corporate control over the Internet, copyrights, patents (especially drug patents), and in particular warns that the giant financial interests are solidifying their current control over the regulatory process. He writes that this will block countries that are trying to “restore the space for applying financial safeguards. In these circumstances it does not makes sense to further liberalize capital flows, depriving us of legitimate tools to safeguard financial stability.”

<snip>

http://blog.ourfuture.org/20130523/tpp-a-deregulation-treaty-not-a-trade-treaty

Obama’s Covert Trade Deal

THE Obama administration has often stated its commitment to open government. So why is it keeping such tight wraps on the contents of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the most significant international commercial agreement since the creation of the World Trade Organization in 1995?

<snip>

Although Congress has exclusive constitutional authority to set the terms of trade, so far the executive branch has managed to resist repeated requests by members of Congress to see the text of the draft agreement and has denied requests from members to attend negotiations as observers — reversing past practice.

<snip>

There is one exception to this wall of secrecy: a group of some 600 trade “advisers,” dominated by representatives of big businesses, who enjoy privileged access to draft texts and negotiators.

This covert approach is a major problem because the agreement is more than just a trade deal. Only 5 of its 29 chapters cover traditional trade matters, like tariffs or quotas. The others impose parameters on nontrade policies. Existing and future American laws must be altered to conform with these terms, or trade sanctions can be imposed against American exports.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/03/opinion/obamas-covert-trade-deal.html

<snip>

The other policies being discussed would set new rules for food safety and prices for medicine, create tighter provisions for Internet freedom, provide stricter copyright laws, as well as extend the length of generic patents for drugs. All countries in the TPP would have to follow the rules set out by the agreement instead of their own country's regulations.

"This is why we are fighting this," said Lori Wallach, director of Global Trade Watch for Public Citizen, a non-profit consumer group. "We supported almost all the major trade agreements in the past, but this goes beyond free trade. It's become a Trojan Horse for all these other provisions of one-size-fits-all."

<snip>

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100841981

<snip>

It is generally agreed that the Obama will not be able to conclude the TPP and TTIP negotiations unless Congress grants him Trade Promotion Authority (TPA) -- commonly known as "fast-track" -- which guarantees that Congress will hold a straight up or down vote on any trade agreement the president negotiates. Trade agreements must be voted out of committee, and members can't offer amendments.

The logic behind fast-track is obvious: Since Congress has the final say on U.S. laws governing commerce, the president speaks not for himself but for the 535 members of Congress during trade negotiations, since trade partners can't be expected to negotiate with 535 legislators. Congress still has to ratify anything the president agrees to, but as a single package. That gives trade partners the assurance that what's hammered out at the negotiating table will remain in place.

<snip>

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/the-odd-bipartisan-coalition-that-could-sink-obamas-free-trade-legacy/276938/

[Buns_of_Fire]

1. I wish I could find that American flag that has the stars replaced by corporate logos.

Because that's EXACTLY what we might as well replace the one we have by if this monstrosity gets through Congress.

"Transparency" means a little more than just allowing the White House visitor logs to be made public.

[Kolesar]

3. did you try www.google.com? eom

[Buns_of_Fire]

5. I'm sure it's out there, but I hate hotlinking to someone else's site.

I had a copy of it myself. That's the one I can't find.

[Kolesar]

6. I thought you wanted to buy a flag

Wave it at the peace march. I saw a guy carry one down Euclid Avenue

[Buns_of_Fire]

15. That'd be better still. If there's a march I can afford to get to, I'll definitely look into that.

Right now, though, pixels are the best I can do.

[East Coast Pirate]

14. This one?

[Buns_of_Fire]

18. Yep, dat's the one! Thanks -- I knew someone would help out on that!

It's like mentioning The Moran Guy -- mention his name and you know SOMEBODY out there has the picture available!

[East Coast Pirate]

26. I uploaded it to photobucket

so you can use the link.

[Buns_of_Fire]

27. Thank you! :)

[CrispyQ]

45. It needs updating. There are much bigger behemoths to behead than many of those.

But I love the concept.

[Kolesar]

2. Are there environmental or labor rights protection clauses

Like were supposed to happen in NAFTA? Those are the biggest consideration.

Please look that up and get back to us. It is important.

[cali]

7. Here's what I found, but don't forget this is being done in secret.

we have leaks and we have things like this- but they don't know either. And it's being negotiated by people with strong corporate ties and corporate bigwigs themselves:

From last December strongly worded letter department)

Two Dozen US Senators Demand Labor Rights in the TPP

<snip>

http://www.citizenstrade.org/ctc/blog/2012/12/03/two-dozen-us-senators-demand-labor-rights-in-the-tpp/


From April of this year:

Trans-Pacific Partnership Targets Internet And Labor Rights

Courtesy of the Roundup, the Real News Network recently did an interview highlighting the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement and the stunning implications this rarely discussed treaty would have on labor, environmental, and internet rights. TPP is the next step in expanding Corporate Power at the expense of democracy and free expression.

According to the Electronic Frontier Foundation the latest round of talks has focused on wildly expanding copyright protection, in essence SOPA 2. But this time Big Business is trying to get through the backdoor by shoving the provisions into a trade agreeement.

<snip>

According to the AFL-CIO TPP will also rollback the very modest gains unions have achieved in recent trade negotiations. But labor and the internet could just be the beginning as TPP could do serious damage to civil society by undermining democracy and further empowering transnational corporations.

The only way this treaty, which will be very unpopular with the American people once they are aware of it, can be approved is if the Obama administration avoids the democratic process by using an authority known as “Fast Track,” which limits the constitutional checks and balances of Congress.

If the TPP is approved, the sovereignty of the United States and other member nations will be dissipated by trade tribunals that favor corporate power and force national laws to be subservient to corporate interests.

<snip>

http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/04/01/trans-pacific-paternship-targets-internet-and-labor-rights/

From the Sierra Club:

http://sierraclub.org/trade/downloads/TPP-LNG%20Factsheet%20FINAL.pdf

Dave Johnson is great on the TPP. Very knowledegable:

You will be hearing a lot about the upcoming Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement. TPP’s negotiations are being held in secret with details kept secret even from our Congress. But giant corporations are in the loop.

TPP is a “trade” agreement between several Pacific-rim countries that is actually about much more than just trade. It will be sold as a trade agreement (because everyone knows that “trade” is good) but much of it appears to be (from what we know) a corporate end-run around things We the People want to do to reign in the giant corporations — like Wall Street regulation, environmental regulation and corporate taxation.

One-Sided Process

The TPP process appears to be set up to push corporate interests over other interests. The TPP is being negotiated in secret, so what we know about it comes from leaked documents. Even our Congress is being kept out of the loop. But 600 corporate representatives are in the loop while representatives of groups that protect working people, human, political and civil rights and our environment are largely not in the loop.

This one-sided participation unfortunately indicates that the interests of giant corporations are likely to override the interests of working people and those who want to protect non-corporate interests. Otherwise there would be more representation by representatives of organizations representing these concerns, and greater transparency into the process.

TPP Is A Very, Very Big Deal

The coming TPP is a very, very big deal. If it is agreed to by the Senate and signed by the President it will override American laws in many areas. We won’t be allowed to enforce laws and regulations that impede the “rights” granted to big corporations under this agreement, and it will be very hard to rescind the agreement once signed, no matter how much damage might result. Just look at how NAFTA, China’s entry into the WTO and other agreements are causing huge trade deficits and sending jobs, factories and industries out of the country while dramatically increasing income and wealth inequality.

Making the TPP work for We, the People should be up there on our “litmus test” of things we require of our elected officials — right along with pledging no cuts to Social Security and Medicare.

TPP Not Just Trade

It looks like TPP will go way beyond what most of us would consider to be in a normal “trade” agreement. TPP — negotiated by giant corporate interests — appears set to give giant corporations a veto over a country’s ability to set many laws and regulations that are designed to reign in those corporations. Quelle surprise!

Leaked documents appear to show that negotiators are writing provisions that will set rules that are binding on Congress and our state legislatures tell us what laws and regulations our own country can pass or enforce in areas like:

intellectual property rights like patents and copyrights,
government procurement like Buy American which would be banned,
investment and land use,
service-sector regulation,
food and product safety,
corporate competition,
labor,
even environmental standards.
Leaks show that TPP even limits government regulation of financial services!

<snip>

http://www.globalresearch.ca/secret-negotiations-the-trans-pacific-partnership-agreement-tpp-a-corporate-takeover/5335348?print=1

[Kolesar]

10. "they've been strengthened over the years, largely thanks to citizen-led advocacy by groups "

from the club's pdf
The TPP and the Environment
Environmental chapters in our trade deals have a history of lacking meaningful enforcement. But they've been
strengthened over the years, largely thanks to citizen-led advocacy by groups including the Sierra Club. This
pressure led to the forging of a bipartisan consensus in May 2007 that set the minimum standards for environment,
labor and other provisions in our trade agreements.

It is essential that the environment chapter of the TPP build on this progress. At the minimum, the chapter should be
binding and subject to the same dispute settlement provisions as commercial chapters; ensure that countries uphold
and strengthen their domestic environmental laws and policies and their obligations under agreed multilateral
environmental agreements; and include biding provisions to address the core environment and conservation challenges of the Pacific Rim region, such as efforts to combat illegal trade in wood, wood products, and wildlife
and to strengthen fisheries management.

---
Ok, that's not a total wipeout yet, but we need more details.
I wonder if AFLCIO has anything on the labor protections.

[Enthusiast]

9. I believe NAFTA includes environmental and labors rights provisions.

But apparently there is no enforcement mechanism or no effort to enforce these provisions.

That is just the way these "deals" always end up. It's what happens when we allow corporations to write legislation, in secret, behind doors closed to the public.

[Kolesar]

11. those "side agreements" were not in the original NAFTA and were never adopted, IIRC

Sherrod Brown wrote about that in "MYths of free Trade"

[Enthusiast]

20. Well there ya go. It's even worse than I surmised. Thank you. nt

[Buns_of_Fire]

12. We have no idea. The whole mess is very hush-hush.

A few drafts have been leaked of some of the chapters, but nothing I've seen about environmental or labor issues.

Here's what the Sierra Club has to say about the environmental issues (it's a PDF): http://www.sierraclub.org/trade/downloads/TPP-Factsheet.pdf

And the AFL-CIO's take on labor issues: http://www.aflcio.org/Issues/Trade/Trans-Pacific-Free-Trade-Agreement/Labor-Rights

Neither give specifics of any proposals, because, like I said, we don't know what the hell they're up to.

[Savannahmann]

4. An abomination

Simply put.

[cali]

8. Yes it is. couldn't sleep at all last night so I spent hours reading about it.

Horrifying.

[cali]

13. Join the Global Fight-Back Against TPP

Trade officials from the U.S. and eight Pacific Rim nations—Australia, Brunei, Chile, Malaysia, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, and Vietnam— have been in negotiations cloaked in secrecy. They want to complete a new Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) "free trade" agreement that could eventually include every Pacific Rim nation from China and Russia to Indonesia and Mexico. America's worst job-offshoring corporations, major global banks, agribusiness, and pharmaceutical giants want this deal to be a corporate power tool with unprecedented attacks on our most basic rights and needs

<snip>

http://www.citizen.org/tppaction

[KoKo]

49. Thanks for Link! Biggest problem is that the Repugs want this Deal Badly...also

so it's going to be a hard slog. We are going to need heavy lifting from the countries involve to stop it. And, it would help if Penny Pritzger had some scandal come up (worse than she already has had) that would help derail it. When Pritzger was confirmed
97-1 in the Senate for Secretary of Commerce...my hopes sunk..

But, thanks for the links and your work on this.

[Berlum]

16. What rough beast, it's hour come round at last, advances on the proles...

"... The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity..." - W.B. Yeats

[cali]

22. perfect. one of my all time favorite poems

THE SECOND COMING

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

[fasttense]

17. The TPP is the selling off of our sovereignty to corporations

And it will make our Supreme Court useless. A Tribunals of 3 to 5 corporate lawyers will judge if our nation, state or county is following the TPP. If they rule in favor of the complaining corporation, then the nation, state or county will have to pay the corporation big, big bucks. And with corporations skipping out of paying most taxes, these fines could easily bankrupt Nations, states or counties. The tribunal can even over-rule the US Constitution.

[Berlum]

32. + 1

+ 1

[NoMoreWarNow]

19. but if Obama supports it, it can't be that bad, right???

he would never do anything that bad, would he?

Though the TPP does indeed sound very bad.

[TransitJohn]

21. This shit's pretty scary

especially when you consider how agribusiness has made disparaging agricultural products on the State level 'terrorism.'
Under this shit, will protests like Seattle '99 bring in the fucking military guns a-blazin'?

[cali]

42. there likely won't be any protests.

people don't know about it, by and large. And they probably won't know about it until it gets to the Senate.

[H2O Man]

23. Well done!

Very well done, indeed. Thank you for this.

Recommended.

[cali]

24. Thank you, H2O Man. One can learn a lot during a sleepless June night

the more I dig, the more disconcerted I am.

[yourout]

25. Sad that I have to hope we get help from teabagged Congresscritters to stop the guy I voted for.....

twice.

[ctsnowman]

29. I feel your pain.

[WovenGems]

28. Details not needed

All you had to tell me was that the treaty was ultra secret and I knew it was full of evil.

[ctsnowman]

30. K & R

[cali]

31. 600 Corporate representatives are in the loop while our reps in

Congress are kept out. How many representatives from labor, environmental and human rights groups are involved in these negotiations?

<snip>

The TPP process appears to be set up to push corporate interests over other interests. The TPP is being negotiated in secret, so what we know about it comes from leaked documents. Even our Congress is being kept out of the loop. But 600 corporate representatives are in the loop while representatives of groups that protect working people, human, political and civil rights and our environment are largely not in the loop.

This one-sided participation unfortunately indicates that the interests of giant corporations are likely to override the interests of working people and those who want to protect non-corporate interests. Otherwise there would be more representation by representatives of organizations representing these concerns, and greater transparency into the process.

<snip>

The TPP process appears to be set up to push corporate interests over other interests. The TPP is being negotiated in secret, so what we know about it comes from leaked documents. Even our Congress is being kept out of the loop. But 600 corporate representatives are in the loop while representatives of groups that protect working people, human, political and civil rights and our environment are largely not in the loop.

This one-sided participation unfortunately indicates that the interests of giant corporations are likely to override the interests of working people and those who want to protect non-corporate interests. Otherwise there would be more representation by representatives of organizations representing these concerns, and greater transparency into the process.

[cali]

33. Leaked Trade Negotiation documents

articles and analysis.

http://www.citizen.org/leaked-trade-negotiation-documents-and-analysis

[blackspade]

34. Good summary

[Buns_of_Fire]

35. "...a gross abrogation of American sovereignty" -- Rep. Alan Grayson

"Having seen what I've seen, I would characterize this as a gross abrogation of American sovereignty," Grayson told HuffPost. "And I would further characterize it as a punch in the face to the middle class of America. I think that's fair to say from what I've seen so far. But I'm not allowed to tell you why!"

Unelected corporate officials are given access to negotiation documents by virtue of their positions on U.S. Trade Representative advisory panels. Corporate representatives account for about 500 of the "cleared advisors" on those panels, while representatives of organized labor, environmental and other groups account for about 100 others. These cleared advisers are not permitted to discuss provisions with the press or the public. On Thursday, Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) sent a letter to Michael Froman, Obama's nominee to head USTR, asking the agency to release negotiation documents to the public. In the letter, Warren noted that the head labor advisory committee had complained of "severe restrictions" USTR had imposed on the panel's access to negotiation information.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/18/alan-grayson-trans-pacific-partnership_n_3456167.html

[Teamster Jeff]

36. K&R

Thanks for this post

[cali]

38. you are most welcome. thank you for taking note of it.

[cali]

37. How insane and frightening is it that the TPP negotiations include hundreds of corporate

representatives while members of Congress, our representatives, are completely shut out?

[antigop]

39. thanks, cali. K&R. nt

Last edited Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:41 AM - Edit history (1)

[antigop]

40. the TPP would promote offshoring of US jobs

http://www.exposethetpp.org/TPPImpacts_OffshoringUSJobs.html

[cali]

41. shameless kick

[Skittles]

52. I WILL KICK KICKING CALI ASS

YES INDEED

[Dragonfli]

43. kick /nt

[pa28]

44. Thanks, it's vital people understand more about the TPP and it's scope.

The really disconcerting thing is asking ordinary people you cross paths with for their opinion. Most don't even know about and if they do it's usually dismissed as just a "trade deal".

Alarming.

[CrispyQ]

46. But both CNN's "Headline News" & their regular "news" station

are focused on the Zimmerman trial, almost exclusively. Not a peep or whisper about TPP, but this afternoon, George Bush will tell how damaging Snowden has been.

[KoKo]

47. "NZ Council Applauds Nominations of Froman and Pritzker for Key Trade"

www.USNZcouncil.org

US | NZ Council Applauds Nominations of Froman and Pritzker for Key Trade Posts
The new USTR and Commerce Secretary have the opportunity to re-Invigorate the U.S. trade agenda and move TPP talks toward a successful conclusion.

The United States | New Zealand Council today commended President Obama's nomination of Michael Froman to be U.S. Trade Representative and Penny Pritzker to be U.S. Commerce Secretary.

"At a time when U.S. trade policy requires strong leadership, today's announcement is welcomed news," said William Maroni, president of the US | NZ Council. "Given the challenges facing the global trading community, the positions of U.S. Trade Representative and Secretary of Commerce have never been more important than they are now."

The US | NZ Council, an independent, non-partisan group that promotes trade and investment liberalization, praised the choice of Michael Froman to be U.S. Trade Representative. As Deputy Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Advisor for International Economic Affairs, he has been intimately involved in the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement and key trade policy decisions.

"Mr. Froman's experience ensures that momentum will continue uninterrupted for the TPP talks and other trade initiatives," said Maroni. "This is essential, especially with regard to the Asia-Pacific region."

The US | NZ Council also applauded Commerce Secretary nominee Penny Pritzker. As a business executive, entrepreneur, civic leader, and philanthropist, Ms. Pritzker will assume the helm of a 43,000-employee agency with responsibility for enforcing U.S. trade laws and promoting American exports.

"Ms. Pritzker not only knows what it takes to build a successful global business," said Maroni. "Her commitment to education and training issues underscores her understanding of what it will take to remain competitive in the world economy.".

The US | NZ Council urged the United States Senate to confirm both nominees swiftly, so they can begin their important work without further delay.

www.USNZcouncil.org

--------------------

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2013/05/pritzker-and-froman-by-the-numbers.html

Pritzker, of course, was a bundler for and co-chair of Obama's 2012 campaign, collecting at least $500,000 (and possibly much more), according to information given out by the campaign And she was chair of the finance committee for his 2008 campaign, helping him bring in the millions he needed to raise after he decided not to accept public financing; she herself bundled between $200,000 and $500,000 for Obama in that earlier cycle. She also gave $250,000 to help fund her fellow Chicagoan's 2013 inaugural.

Pritzker and her husband, Bryan Taubert, have contributed a total of more than $988,000 at the federal level since 1990, according to Center for Responsive Politics research, spreading most of it among 119 different federal candidates. Topping the list is Obama, to whom they started giving in 2000; he's collected $55,600. That's more than triple the $14,200 the Pritzkers gave to their second-ranking recipient, Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.). Hillary Clinton came in third at $10,800.

Almost all the candidates to whom the Pritzkers have contributed are Democrats, but there are a few exceptions: They gave $1,000 to George W. Bush for his 2000 presidential campaign, and another $2,000 in 2004 for his re-election effort. They've also given to Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), former House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.), former Rep. Tom Campbell (R-Calif.) and a handful of other Republicans.

Pritzker also gave about $120,000 to various Democratic party committees in the 2010 and 2012 campaign cycles combined.

Michael Froman--Law school classmate/bundler gets trade slot

The other nomination Obama announced today was that of Michael Froman, currently a deputy national security adviser, to be U.S. Trade Representative. Froman and his wife, Nancy Goodman, are in a different league from Pritzker and her husband, both in terms of personal wealth and political contributions. They've given a total of $56,560 to political candidates, parties and outside spending groups since they started donating in 2000, including $7,700 to Obama.

However, Froman, who was a Harvard Law School classmate of the president, was a bundler for Obama's 2008 campaign, raising between $200,000 and $500,000.

Although Froman has worked at the White House since 2009 -- he was the key negotiator on several free trade deals -- he was a managing director at Citigroup Management Corp. for the decade before Obama took office.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2013/05/pritzker-and-froman-by-the-numbers.html


---------------------------
Penny Pritzker Confirmed for Commerce by 97-1 Vote
Bernie Sanders Lone Vote

The Senate on Tuesday voted to approve billionaire Chicago businesswoman Penny Pritzker to lead the U.S. Commerce Department, where she has promised to serve as a bridge between the White House and the business community.

The Senate backed President Barack Obama’s choice of Pritzker by a vote of 97-1, with independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont casting the only dissenting vote.

Pritzker, an heiress to the Hyatt hotel fortune and one of the wealthiest Americans, was national finance chair of Obama’s 2008 campaign and co-chair of his 2012 re-election bid.

She takes charge of a government bureaucracy that includes the U.S. Patent Office, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the Census Bureau as well as agencies that promote exports, administer laws against unfairly traded imports and control overseas sales of sensitive U.S. technology.

Pritzker told the Senate Commerce Committee during her confirmation hearing that Obama wanted her to be “a bridge between the administration and the business community” in the hope of improving a sometimes strained relationship.

http://forward.com/articles/179281/penny-pritzker-confirmed-for-commerce-by---vote/

[cali]

48. These are not reassuring appointments.

[glinda]

50. Trip to Africa

ripe for the taking......everyone wants a piece of Africa. Lots of talk of "agriculture". Meanwhile Obama was there talking fertilizers.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

51. Economic treason.

[Fire Walk With Me]

53. Imperative KICK!

[cali]

54. thanks for the kick

I'm more than a little obsessed with this. I consider stopping it the highest priority.

[cali]

55. and another kick for keeping this issue

alive. Any additional info that anyone wants to add would be appreciated.

[KG]

56. can't wait to see this clusterfuck being defended/justified on DU.

[cali]

57. oh, it has been- a bit.

someone justified keeping drafts from Congress with this: "too many cooks spoil the broth".