I'm sorry, President Carter, but I can't forgive Paula Deen.

[last1standing]

I can't express how much respect and admiration I have for President Carter both as a president who held the country together honorably and decently after the turmoil of the Nixon years and as a sincerely good human being who has left his mark on human rights, elections, charitable works and post-political decorum. Even so, I can't take up his call to forgive Paula Deen for a few reasons.

First, I'm not the target of her bigotry. I can try to understand why she would hold black people in contempt and call them derogatory names, but I can't forgive her for doing so because she doesn't look down on me for having a different skin color.

Second, I didn't spend years as a minority in her restaurants being harassed, looked over, and humiliated. I didn't have to compete with my fellow workers hunting for a few meager dollars that she had hidden in the restaurant so that she could laugh at us for trying to supplement our low wages.

Third, I don't have a law suit pending against her for doing those things and more. I haven't had to deal with her, or her brother's, cruel bigotry so I didn't have a reason to sue them.

I can't forgive Paula Deen because I'm not the person she hurt. All I can do is try to support the people she has hurt by not watching their TV shows, eating in their restaurants, or buying the products of companies they represent.

Maybe Deen has been punished enough. I don't know and it's not my place to say. All I know is that there is still a law suit that she is fighting and employees who were subjected to this treatment who have not received compensation for her actions. Perhaps if she wants forgiveness she should look to them, not us. If her tears are more than a way to stop the hemorrhaging of her media/restaurant empire maybe she should cry to those she has actually harmed instead of doing it on daytime television.

President Carter is a great man with a greater heart and nothing he said today makes me think any less of him. However, I believe he's asked the wrong people to forgive Deen just as she has.

[NYC_SKP]

1. Sorry, but President Carter doesn't need your approval to offer his forgiveness.

He's a stand-up human being and easily the best example of a post-presidency effort in my generation.

I get your post, I understand it, but forgiveness is an individual thing and I respect his coming forward with a statement and I don't pretend to know any better or feel a need to make a statement about his statement.

He's a great human being and I respect him fully.

[npk]

4. +1 n/t

[last1standing]

5. Either you misread my post accidentally or intentionally.

Or perhaps you just want to pick a fight. I'm not sure but we all have to do what we have to do.

Have a good day.

[NYC_SKP]

8. Or, maybe I just don't care to pick at a wound or speak for a former POTUS.

I'll just add a link to the interview: http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/us/georgia-carter-deen/index.html

And say that forgiveness doesn't mean that there ought not be consequences.

Are you saying that Paula Deen should suffer consequences and also not be forgiven.

If so, I feel badly for you.

I think we all have the capacity to rise to the ability to forgive.

[last1standing]

10. I didn't try to speak for President Carter, who I admire more than any living president.

So again, you either misread my post or want to pick a fight. Since you started slinging snark at me from the start, I have to wonder...

All I said was that it's not my place to forgive Deen. The only forgiveness that matters is from those she has harmed. I don't know why that has led insults and snide comments.

[Skidmore]

34. This is the video that kind of leaves me thinking that she has a lot of learning

to do before being granted absolultion:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/21/paula-deen-racism_n_3480720.html

[NYC_SKP]

36. She's pretty clueless, isn't she?

Made it sound like here heirs were victims of the civil war in that they lost their 36 plantation slaves.

Then she rolls out her black friend, the son by another father.

Not buying it.

[bigwillq]

2. Glad you got that off your chest.

Can we carry on now?

[last1standing]

6. Yep.

n/t

[former9thward]

3. Nobody cares what anonymous internet posters forgive or don't forgive.

President Carter is not anonymous.

[last1standing]

7. Nobody cares what anonymous internet posters think on any subject.

Yet here we are.

[freshwest]

9. Agree with all you said.

[last1standing]

11. Thanks. Others seem to have very strong opinions to the contrary.

I have no idea why.

[bigwillq]

12. That's life.

Some will agree with you; others won't.

Don't take it too seriously if people disagree with you. Life will go on for all of us.

[last1standing]

14. Disagreement is fine. I'm happy to disagree.

Insults and snark don't bother me much, either, but I don't understand what was so controversial about this thread that made people like yourself feel the need to act so snide. I really was merely wanting to get that off my chest. I wasn't expecting a major battle over something I thought was obvious.

Still, you felt the need to be offensive so you must have had your reasons. Have a nice day.

[bigwillq]

15. That's life.

some people are rude, snide and offensive.

Get used to it.

Try not to have such a thin skin.

[last1standing]

16. Yes they are.

As I said, it wasn't the insult that bothered me, it was the confusion about why my post brought it on.

As for some people being rude, snide and offensive, I'm fully aware of that. I just don't understand some people's obvious pride in attempting to be cruel. What do you get out of it?

[bigwillq]

17. I get ice cream.

From Skinner. He pays me to be snide.



This IS a discussion forum, right? To discuss, debate, agree, disagree, yell, scream, laugh, cry?

I'm just playing along.

[last1standing]

20. Then I hope it tastes good.

I'm here to "discuss, debate, agree, disagree, yell, scream, laugh, cry," not to try and create pain wherever I go. Your game doesn't sound like much fun for others. I left DU for four years because I ended up getting sucked into the insults and hurtful comments. I won't make that mistake again.

Cruelty isn't a progressive trait.

[bigwillq]

25. You take a message board way too seriously.

Chill out.

DO you really care what anonymous people on a freaking message board think?

OMG, "Liber6969" didn't like my thread" WAH WAH

Who the frig cares.

[last1standing]

26. Apparently, you care as you continue to respond.

I'm not here to play a game of who can insult who the best. I'm here to discuss issues which I generally do take seriously.

If I didn't "care what anonymous people on a freaking message board think," I wouldn't waste my time writing up posts or even reading threads. We live in a community, even if it's a virtual one. I'm going to try to show others respect, including you. And yes, I do care what other people in my community think and hope they do the same. That's what makes living in a society bearable.

[bigwillq]

27. Good point.

See, you DO know how to play the game!

Cheers.

[last1standing]

28. Cheers. :)

Let's start fresh with no hard feelings.

[freshwest]

18. It's a custom among some that only the offended can grant forgiveness. Carter is speaking to all.

I'm sure he's not commanding anyone, as it is just a suggestion. I have a lot of respect for Carter, but I also understand that the aggrieved may not be willing to forgive and forget just yet, as the wounds may have never been healed.

The downfall of Deen affects the charities she was involved in. So the beneficiaries may not want her to go broke. That is a practical matter in the present time.

But philantrophy after theft is no substitute for oppression. Because the one with the money has made more money through possession, investment and interest and the one stolen from did not have that opportunity.

It is self-serving to indulge in philantrophy at the time of one's own choosing, instead of doing the right thing at the time. But no one is perfect but those she hurt did not deserve to be insulted as well as robbed.

I posted the words of Douglass a while back and the only way to peace is to stop doing this.

[last1standing]

23. I agree with everything you said.

I adore President Carter and didn't think he was issuing a command. I do think his heart is in the right place but I don't think that we're the ones who need to forgive her.

And spot on about "philanthropy after theft is no substitute for oppression." Very true.

[forestpath]

13. I think Paula Deen sounds like a racist bully to her employees and I don't

care what Jimmy Carter thinks about it.

[Apophis]

33. ^^^This^^^

[treestar]

19. He is being a Christian

Also he is from the same state as she is and even older than she is, so he might have some understanding/empathy.

I think she should be forgiven or she has no reason not to be a racist again.

Black people may have a harder time with that and I can respect that.

[last1standing]

21. I can understand that line of thought.

I just don't think it's me that Deen needs forgiveness from. She needs it from those she hurt but she hasn't even tried to get it from them. She hasn't settled the suit and hasn't made amends to the workers she mistreated.

I know that Deen is a bit of a distraction from larger issues but I think it's important to understand that she hasn't asked for forgiveness for those she's hurt and if she doesn't want it, it can't be given.

[ChazII]

22. Along with Freshwest, I agree

with your remarks and observations. As an aside, waiting to see if Alec Baldwin is called on to apologize as well for his tweet earlier today. Both of them (Dean and Baldwin) are equally disgusting for their remarks and their lack of character.

[last1standing]

24. When Baldwin had that rant he showed his true colors and they didn't make a rainbow.

I'm glad both Deen and Baldwin vote Democratic but they do nothing to support equal rights if they abandon them when it suits them.

[TheManInTheMac]

29. As long as you don't forgive Robert Byrd, that's fine.

[last1standing]

30. I don't but at least there I have some skin in the game.

While I believe Byrd did ask for forgiveness from the African American community for his racist past (very, very late in the game and without much sincerity), he never apologized for his homophobic stances which helped destroy the lives of countless members of the LGBT community. It's up to those in the AA community to either forgive him or not for fighting against AA civil rights, but it's up to my community to decide whether to forgive him for fighting against LGBT rights. Since he never asked my forgiveness, he will never get it.

Byrd is a shining example of what we should be fighting against, regardless of what letter comes after his name.

[TheManInTheMac]

38. Yes. I agree. Thank you.

[alp227]

31. THANK YOU! Everyone...even on DU...ignores Deen's sexual harrassment accusation

and are focusing on the N word, it's sad how the mainstream media duped even DUers.

[last1standing]

35. That's the thing. Deen did more than say a bad word, she harmed specific people.

And those specific people are the only ones she hasn't apologized to. She is still fighting her court case and still hasn't done a thing to make amends with her staff.

She can cry into the camera all day long begging me to forgive her but she hasn't hurt me. How can I forgive someone for harming someone else? Until she halts the PR campaign and begins making amends to those she has hurt, no amount of forgiveness from me is going to matter.

[Apophis]

32. I was the target of her racism.

As a black man, her chicken fried southern racism makes me sick.

I'm not Jesus. I don't and will never have to forgive bigots like Mrs. Deen. I'm glad many businesses have pulled away from her. Maybe now she'll realize her hate will have consequences.

[last1standing]

37. I'm sorry that in 2013 so many still find this genteel bigotry acceptable.

I might feel differently about Deen if she had made a heartfelt apology for her actions to those she actually hurt, but she's only apologized for using the wrong words. Has she ever said "I'm sorry for treating black people as lesser human beings?" Has she ever condemned the sexual harassment of her female workers? Has she ever explained why forcing her staff to run around her restaurant searching for money while she laughed was wrong?

If she has, I haven't heard it.

[Apophis]

40. The only reason she's sorry is because she got caught.

Like you said, she's not sorry for what she did. She's just sorry she got called out on her racism.

No one here should ever defend her.

[stevenleser]

39. I'm interested to hear what the African American community thinks about this.

I am not inclined to forgive her, but if what appears to be a majority of the African American community does, I would change my mind.

[last1standing]

41. If she really wants my forgiveness...

she can have it after she's been forgiven by the people she's harmed and not before. After she settles her lawsuit in favor of the woman her brother sexually harassed with Deen's knowledge I'd be glad to forgive her for that. After she compensates her minority staff for the humiliations and abuse they received through the years, I'll forgiver her for that as well.

Personally, I don't think my forgiveness means a Damned thing when she never actually harmed me but if she wants it so badly then she needs to get it from those she did harm first. I still won't buy the crap she endorses, eat in her restaurants or watch her show* but I will forgive her.




*Of course I never did buy the crap she endorses, eat in her restaurants or watch her show so my boycott should be seen more as good taste than a social statement.

[grasswire]

42. Paula had Jimmy & Rosalyn on her show a while back.

She had them rolling out cookies or something like that. I felt THEN that she was quite patronizing to this great man, treating him like a half-senile old man.

[UTUSN]

43. R#6 & K for, i LOVE all Dems, and YOU/PresCARTER, but

* you busted JFK's church/state separation, carried the bible around, did the Sunday School thing.\\\

* gave us Pat CADDELL and Tweety

* Lost to RAYGUN



Need I say more?!1