Is it me or has the Snowden worship disappeared?

[brooklynite]

When I went on vacation, the Snowden threads seems to split 50/50 between supporters and opponents. Now, pro-Snowden posts seem to have pretty much vanished.

[NoOneMan]

1. Good. Maybe the anti-Snowden obsessed should take a hint

Why should we give a fuck about him? Don't we have a security apparatus to investigate and dismantle?

[FreakinDJ]

45. Only a Fool shoots the Messenger

[msongs]

2. relax, the other set of obsessive worshippers is still going strong lol nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

3. They vanished because they're inconvenient now. It was the same on the radio. Journalists lining..

up to pat Snowden on the back, but when they found out he was in HK, it began to abate. And then Russia, the worship has almost evaporated. Now we're being told "THIS IS NOT ABOUT SNOWDEN". Well, however inconvenient it may be, that horse is out of the barn. IT IS ABOUT SNOWDEN.

You remember when we progressives were lining up to demand someone go to jail for leaking the identity of Valerie Plame? Remember how we believed her when she told us that she & countless other assets were placed in danger because of the leak? How is this different?

[RC]

63. Because Valerie Plame was exposed to silence and discredit her by our government and to start a war.

Edward Snowden, was trying to expose the war our government is doing on its own citizens.

[Tarheel_Dem]

66. "From Russia With Love"? You tell yourself whatever you need to. I understand.

[Phlem]

151. Nice non response

-p

[Tarheel_Dem]

176. Oh, hi Phlem. Feel better soon, mmmkay?

[Phlem]

179. Oh Bless your heart sweetie you gave me a 2 fer.

there ya go let's see how many smiles you fire back.

-p

[Tarheel_Dem]

181. Still not feeling well, I see. Perhaps this will make ya feel better. Here ya go, I lost count!!!

[Phlem]

187. ya know Tarheel

I can always count on you to deliver.



You Friend Always Y.F.A

-p

[Phlem]

188. I'm going to bed now my princess. Pleasant dreams.

Kisses!

[Phlem]

153. I'd save my energy

addition is difficult for that crowd and critical thinking is a complete mystery. Save you energy for what really matters. Like people who discuss substance and not whiny American Idol High Schoolers.

-p

[kentuck]

4. Per unnamed government officials...

The media has dropped coverage of Mr Snowden, except for a mention in the middle of their gabfests.

The action has ceased. He is no longer running. He is stuck in a transit area in Moscow airport. Once he offered a place to stay and a flight out of Russia, the news will pick back up. Bet on it.

[KittyWampus]

50. No, actually an article about Snowden was in todays NYTimes.

[randome]

5. The NSA reached out and blackmailed all of them!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[arely staircase]

56. Or FBI snipers got them nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. i said my piece and made peace with what others had to say

also the VRA got gutted and my marriage got recognized federally so i got distracted

[11 Bravo]

24. Congrats on the marriage! My little brother is also now officially married.

He and his partner are two of the finest men I have ever known!

[Cali_Democrat]

7. As I mentioned a few days ago...

The tables have definitely truned on Mr. Snowden. He should have just released the FISA warrant and called it a day. Instead he lied about PRISM, the ability to tap the President's phone etc.

Then he decided to reveal US espionage activities to the Chinese and Russians. That was a big no no

[alcibiades_mystery]

8. Attention span combined with his impending surrender makes the romance seem duller

"But what about the actual issue is now the rallying cry, and probably should be anyway.

[markiv]

9. maybe the story is getting old and the supporters have a life? nt

[davidn3600]

10. There has been no new news for while

The only news the last couple days is the US whining like a baby for not getting its way and other nations acting defiant.

[truebluegreen]

11. Personally I have no more patience with Snowden worshippers

than with worshippers of any other stripe so I couldn't tell you where they've gone. You could ask the worshippers who remain why they are here though.

[randome]

16. They are badly in need of a hero.

We have so few of them today, anyone who hints of going against the grain is elevated to that status even when they don't measure up by other standards.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[truebluegreen]

18. True. And "they" aren't the only ones.

[randome]

22. Agreed. We all need heroes.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Whisp]

39. I hear General Hoss Cartwright's name is in the hat to be picked out as a hero next. n/t

[brush]

40. We've got Mandela for a little while longer. Now he's a hero is. Snowden . . . not so much.

[Spirochete]

87. Mandela can't be a hero

He was always getting the Beaver in trouble, and then bugging out before the shit hit the fan.

[Tarheel_Dem]

90. Not Mondello. Mandela.

That was great. I still love that show. You just made my day.

[Junkdrawer]

12. Things are going down pretty much as I suspected....

But then you know me...Crazy "Conspiracy Theory" Junkdrawer...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022994688

[HipChick]

13. Snowden who? His 15mins are over..

until its time for him to do a perp walk

[CakeGrrl]

29. +1

POTUS threw down some perspective in a press conference when he said he wasn't going to "scramble any jets" after him.

There goes the 'government is going to try to kill the noble hero' narrative.

He's a data stealer on the run.

[flamingdem]

110. Well "scramble mah jets"

sounds Southern and pearl clutchy, shall adopt going forward..

[DesMoinesDem]

14. People are sick of the relentless smears from the anti-Snowden crowd.

People here still overwhelmingly support Snowden and what he did, but the anti-Snowden authoritarians have drowned them out with their relentless smears. ProSense alone has over a hundred smear threads. No one wants to comment in all those threads, so they're left to the BOGers to spread their talking points.

[ProSense]

72. I never "wonder whats going in" your life.

That would make me feel creepy.

[Romulus Quirinus]

79. Wouldn't the world be a better place if everyone as a three-dimensional person,

and not just a villain or hero with an agenda, some sort of cardboard cutout? You see people caring for one another all of the time in the Lounge and in the groups, and that's just on DU. If we can't do that for everyone, then what hope do we have?

This goes against our natural grain, of course, possibly due to basic brain anatomy. I, for one, want my Dunbar's number to be as large as possible, and try to grow it when I can.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

I think David Wong does a good job simplifying the idea here:

http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html

Don't you ever wonder why people believe the way they do? What you have in common, and why they believe things that seem to be irrational, even though they don't otherwise seem to be terrible? Does that not inform how you respond to them? How can we hope to change minds if we assume everyone on the other side is a mindless robot fueled by hate? .

More than once, I've jumped down someone's throat and found out later that they had other things going on that explained why they said things that seemed horrible, and I've felt like the king of douchebags for it. Short of not participating in anything anywhere, I don't see another way to go forward.

PS: I'm sorry if I've bothered you.

[ProSense]

85. Then maybe

"Wouldn't the world be a better place if everyone as a three-dimensional person, and not just a villain or hero with an agenda, some sort of cardboard cutout? You see people caring for one another all of the time in the Lounge and in the groups, and that's just on DU. If we can't do that for everyone, then what hope do we have?"

...you should refrain from posting comments like this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3122430

[Romulus Quirinus]

88. Perhaps I could have been nicer, but it seemed appropriate in the context of the parent post.

Maybe you just type really fast, but you have been rather prolific, no? I just think you care a lot about DU, though, rather than being some sort of villainous team of PR people as has been implied by some people who should know better.

I'll admit that my thinking on this has shifted lately.

[Kolesar]

91. those posts were not smears ,

but they contributed to the end of the personality cult of Edward Snowden.

[RainDog]

54. I'm neutral about Snowden

but found the smears against him were simply too much. It crossed the line when WOMEN were making fun of his girlfriend for being a dancer.

So, my ignore list probably doubled during this time.

the net effect is that anyone who was involved in this doesn't get any of his or her posts read by me, and, I would assume, by many others.

[truebluegreen]

57. +1

[ProSense]

70. "ProSense alone has over a hundred smear threads."

Stop spreading lies.

[Apophis]

126. What, 96 then?

[ProSense]

127. No, 200. n/t

[SwampG8r]

183. that made me laugh

reminded me of kitchen nightmares this year from some Arizona bakery
wife/co-owner says to ramsey "its totally untrue we fired 50 waitresses last year"
ramsey looks at the husband
the husband says "she is telling the truth, it was more than 100"

[Whisp]

76. Smearing a traitorous thief,

o my, how indelicate of us.

[ProSense]

81. Funny thing is

"People are sick of the relentless smears from the anti-Snowden crowd."

...that you apparently think that no one is sick of the "relentless" glorification of the pro-Snowden "crowd."

There are always too sides. Get used to it.

Spanish judge Baltasar Garzon says his legal team won’t represent NSA leaker Edward Snowden
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10023101737

The Errors of Edward Snowden and His Global Hypocrisy Tour
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023112872

Ecuador has no plans to halt commerce ties over Snowden: Correa
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023114551

Ecuador threatens legal action against leaker of invalid travel document for Snowden
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023114430

Ecuador cools on Edward Snowden asylum as Assange frustration grows
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023119831

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. That is what ignore is for baby

let her post them... to the echo chamber... and I am not kidding there.

[ProSense]

89. Well,

"let her post them... to the echo chamber... and I am not kidding there. "

..my "echo chamber" is better than your "echo chamber."

Seriously!

[Vietnameravet]

107. Snowen smeared himself

[JI7]

123. what the fuck is wrong with what ProSense posts , she posts news items, nobody is demanding

you respond to them.

but i think the ones who are the problem are those who come on a Democratic political board and bash posters for supporting democrats and posting news items because it's offensive to libertarians like Snowden .

[Live and Learn]

152. +1 nt

[treestar]

163. The anti-Snowden crowd isn't

And is sick of the lionizing of Eddie to the point of wishing ill will on the US.

[Tarheel_Dem]

182. Skinner hasn't turned this into Libertarian Underground YET. That may be coming....

but for now, Democrats (ProSense) still get to post here. The fact that a Ron Paul donor is glorified on a democratic message board is disturbing enough, but you can't even call it for what it is, without the threat of having your posts hidden. I, for one, am glad ProSense is here, and that her work is exhaustively researched & sourced.

[winter is coming]

17. Agenda much? "Supporter" = "worshipper"?? n/t

[Posteritatis]

19. "Worshipper" here means "Someone who approves of something I dislike." (nt)

[HangOnKids]

42. BaZingGa!

And no references to his connections? Sheesh I am so sad because I just LURVE those tidbits.

[Scootaloo]

71. I tell ya, my house is just cluttered with all the shrines...

[Posteritatis]

96. I found those much easier to manage when I simply started storing them in my temple. (nt)

[Zorra]

20. There was really nothing more to say after this Alan Grayson video (below) was first posted:

End of story.

No sense in being redundant.

[idwiyo]

58. K&R

[Pholus]

98. So Alan Grayson is a libertarian?

After all, DU "wisdom" says only libertarians and teabaggers quote the founding fathers!

[nadinbrzezinski]

134. Yup, civil libertarian

[Pholus]

141. Oh, I meant "bad" libertarian.... nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

143. I insist in using the correct language

My bad

[Pholus]

144. I hadn't thought about that redefinition of language. Thanks... nt

[Zorra]

150. I like this one lots ~ "Our attachment to no nation upon earth should supplant our attachment

to liberty."
~ Thomas Jefferson

"The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. We ought, for so dear a state, to sacrifice every attachment and every enmity"
~ Thomas Jefferson

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."
~ Thomas Jefferson

Appropriate, as Independence Day approaches!


Isn't it ironic that the "Purveyors of the new DU Wisdom" totally seem to detest what Jefferson, the founder of the Democratic Party, actually believed and said? (Well...yeah, maybe not so ironic, considerin'...)

If you know your history,
Then you would know where you coming from,
Then you wouldn't have to ask me,
Who the 'eck do I think I am.
~ Bob Marley

[Enthusiast]

156. PLUS ONE! nt

[morningfog]

21. I never saw any worship.

[Enthusiast]

157. Me either.

Reminds me of the jerk GOPsters claiming Obama was our "Messiah". No substance either way.

[LanternWaste]

23. I saw many supporters. No worshippers, though.

I saw many supporters. No worshippers, though.

However, I do understand the desire to trivialize those we disagree with.

[Bluenorthwest]

25. Sadly the vacation did nothing to curb your self indulgent characterizations of others nor to

enhance your ability to make a direct, coherent argument. The insistence that everyone join in with your personality based pin up boy sort of simplistic centrist world view is just boring. Too bad the recreation did not recreate.

[Puglover]

67. LOL

Ayup.

[Le Taz Hot]

132. LOL!

Very good!

[cali]

26. "snowden worshippers": nasty and sneering. good job there.

[Cali_Democrat]

41. nasty and sneering?

reminds me of somebody on DU

[BlueCaliDem]

80. The irony is, they don't even know it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

47. true that. nt

[Whisp]

148. *points and laughs

that was a good one.

[Swede Atlanta]

27. There was no Snowden "worship"......

There was a strong response to his actions in favor of his principle that "we the people" should know what "they the not people" are doing in our name and, arguable, for us.

I am glad it has calmed down. I wish Mr. Snowden the best because he has hopefully opened the eyes of many to the abuses and excesses of our government.

But we must be reminded that ordinary Germans allowed the Nazis to slowly take away basic protections and I fear we are on the same trajectory. The polemic will be in the name of security but in reality it is to control and dominate you at every turn.

[lamp_shade]

30. I see that a few of them are still hanging on. :wink:

[HangOnKids]

119. Thanks Pam

[sibelian]

31. So what do YOU think of the NSA's surveillance programme, brooklynite?

[Romulus Quirinus]

32. Please note the rec to reply ratio. That kind of says a lot.

30/1 at the time of this posting.

[Bobbie Jo]

92. No it doesn't.

Shallow much?

Not everyone around here needs a cheering section for validation.

Looking for "likes," get on Facebook. This is a political board.

[The Link]

33. You have an Obama shaped beam in your eye.

Take care of that, then worry about the mote in mine.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. What worship?

You got a good imagination. But it did out partisans who have a problem with civil rights.

[kentuck]

35. Indeed it did.

I have a list right here in my pocket...

[Cali_Democrat]

43. LOL

[bravenak]

36. Who?

Never heard of him.

[railsback]

37. Definitely dissipated greatly

Of course the hero-worshippers are denying any worshipping, but's thats fine by me. As long as I don't have to see, hear or look at such a misguided representation.

[LanternWaste]

74. Who?

"Of course the hero-worshippers are denying any worshipping..."

Who? Specifically who?

Or do we merely continue to hide behind pronouns?

And, as 'worshipper' isn't a pejorative, it certainly wouldn't be calling anyone out (against DU rules) to specify who exactly we're talking about... and would certainly reduce the chance of any implication than one does not posses the courage of their own convictions...

[railsback]

101. LoL. You want specific names, as if you've never been here before? How smarmy.

Har……..
usG……………..
Bo….
mor…….
sab…..

etc
etc
etc

You fill in the blanks with the Google search if you need to know for personal reasons. These are people in mourning and should left alone.

[burnodo]

38. So, if there is "Snowden worship"...

does that mean there's "Obama worship" too?

[Marr]

44. I don't recall any Snowden worship. What I *do* recall, is repeatedly stating

that this is not about personalities, no matter how much you want it to be. I remember a lot of people saying this is about domestic surveillance, not Edward Snowden.

I remember a collection of people who were quite determined to avoid that issue, and so went on attacking Snowden. That's what I remember.

[Pholus]

99. Yup. Just so. nt

[Democracyinkind]

46. At least the flamebait hasn't disappered, huh?

[MNBrewer]

48. There was never any "Snowden worship"

at least not to compare to the "Obama worship" on DU. I figure the smear brigade figures its work is done once other distractions come along, like Paula Deen or the DOMA/Prop 8 decisions.

[arely staircase]

64. nah, none at all

http://www.democraticunderground.com/102353

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10022994058

[MNBrewer]

69. Saying he's a hero is "worship"?

Seriously?

[arely staircase]

73. seriously

WORSHIP

transitive verb

1 to honor or reverence as a divine being or supernatural power

2: to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion <a celebrity worshipped by her fans>



hero worship
noun
1: veneration of a hero


2: foolish or excessive adulation for an individual

[MNBrewer]

97. Sounds like what goes on around here for Obama, too.

[arely staircase]

102. well don't worry, nobody is accusing you of that. nt

[treestar]

165. WEll yes

and funny no one has said Obama is a hero, even. Yet we are accused of worship daily on DU just for questioning the latest "smear."

[treestar]

83. Oh yes there was.

The first day his name came out in the news. Before he was known to have fled. Many pronounced him a hero.

[Enthusiast]

160. Oh, no there wasn't.

[Kolesar]

93. Not "Snowden worship", but "Obama trolling": the same DUers who baited us on chained-cpi &drones eom

[Bobbie Jo]

95. This.

Last edited Fri Jun 28, 2013, 08:23 PM - Edit history (1)

Always the usual suspects leading the charge.

[MNBrewer]

100. After all, Obama is "a moderate Republican"

[Whisp]

149. is Snowden the elected Democratic President?

You really want to compare 'worships'?

omg, the thick.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

49. Still completely appreciative of what he did.

Just not interested in beating a dead anti-Snowden horse.

[Bonhomme Richard]

52. It served it's purpose. Now we know who the Authoritarians are. n/t

[Th1onein]

53. I think people finally began to understand that it was NOT ABOUT SNOWDEN OR GREENWALD.

But, rather, about what they had revealed.

[arely staircase]

60. what, the secrets to the chinese or the stuff that's 7 years old? nt

[randome]

65. Snowden SAID stuff! What do you not understand about that??

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Hydra]

55. It was never about Snowden

In fact, I wish for his sake that he'd stayed silent and made them figure out who did it.

That said, I do defend his actions in leaking the NSA info that we needed to a) Prove that this was going on and b) Circumvent the secrecy that's been preventing the spying from being tried in court.

The gap has split in a rather interesting way- the people against the leaks seem to have moved to a strange place where the law doesn't exist anymore and they're trying to get all of us to move there.

Spooky as hell, IMO. "Abandon your principles! Big Brother is there for you!"

[HiPointDem]

59. what 'worship'? i think it's you; how's the weather in bizarro world?

[backscatter712]

61. "worshipper"? I sense an agenda.

*PLONK*

[ProSense]

75. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3122696

[Arctic Dave]

62. Its just that the authoritarian shitstain lovers are still knashing their teeth about this

whole thing. Sad and pathetic bunch they are.

I agree, fuck the authoritarians. They need to realize they are wrong and go back to whatever slime pit they crawled out of.

[Vietnameravet]

86. Nice post Artic

Really in keeping with the spirit of this site..(snark)

[Arctic Dave]

124. Always a pleasure. (Not snark)

I love slapping down authoritarians.

Especially the ones that hover around the edges of neo-fascism.

[b.durruti]

94. +6 000 000 ~nt~

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

68. Worshippers? Would that include Valerie Plame, ACLU, and Amnesty International?

"In a way, we as U.S. citizens owe Edward Snowden a thank you for having brought this issue to the forefront and so that we can begin to have a serious and genuine conversation about these issues."

Plame said she has "great respect" for journalist Glenn Greenwald, who broke the Snowden story, saying "he has written eloquently for years on these issues in a very serious, sustained manner."

She added that she believes the conversation should focus less on Snowden and more on the questions he raised, since "his fate is already foregone."

"He will be abused, he will be punished," Plame said of Snowden. "Perhaps he could have done it in a different way, but that's not the conversation we should be having."

Valerie Plame

[Enthusiast]

159. Under the bus with Valerie Plame, ACLU, and Amnesty International!

I keed.

[cherokeeprogressive]

77. Must be just you. Honestly, I saw NO Snowden "worship".

[kestrel91316]

78. I've been hanging back and waiting to see how things play out - I don't know enough

about the case to have a firm opinion one way or the other.

"Worship"?? Really? That's a pretty RW way of attacking DUers.

[Romulus Quirinus]

84. 83/2 nt

[snot]

103. Let me just say,

I did a poll a while ago, and as of this writing, 81% of DU'er's are pro-leak.

I suspect most of them do not revile Snowden; but I believe they were mostly interested in what the leaks revealed, rather than Snowden personally.

I.m.h.o., the anti-Snowden crew made a disproportionate amount of noise, which magnified their seeming influence. A lot of DU'er's were smart enough not to be lured into debating them; but they often succeeded in turning attempts to discuss the leaks into debates over Snowden's character.

And i.m.h.o., the same thing happened with Assange.

[randome]

106. Hey, great tactic. Don't debate on a discussion forum.

Stay in your comfortable bubble and don't ever let the thoughts of others intrude!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Pholus]

104. Something more important than Snowden is happening.

"We are concerned that by depending on secret interpretations of the PATRIOT Act that differed from an intuitive reading of the statute, this program essentially relied for years on a secret body of law," the letter reads. "Statements from senior officials that the PATRIOT Act authority is 'analogous to a grand jury subpoena' and that the NSA '[doesn't] hold data on US citizens' had the effect of misleading the public about how the law was being interpreted and implemented. This prevented our constituents from evaluating the decisions that their government was making, and will unfortunately undermine trust in government more broadly."

From the letter sent to James Clapper, signed by 26 senators including 46% of all Democratic Senators in office.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57591583/26-senators-ask-clapper-for-more-info-on-data-collection/

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. Yup...exactly

[gholtron]

105. Snowden? Hummmmmm

Why does that name sound slightly familiar?

[Summer Hathaway]

108. Isn't it amusing

to watch people who have called Obama-supporters "worshippers" for years on this site now object to the use of the term when it comes to Snowden-supporters?

Of course, there is one glaring difference between the two groups:

Obama has been a known entity for a very long time - via the political offices he has held, the public statements/speeches he has made, the books he has written, and the positions he has taken.

Needless to say, once elected POTUS, Obama, like any other president, has been scrutinized by supporters and non-supporters alike. He has been questioned on every issue, every stance, every word he utters. The minutest details of his life have been laid bare.

Those who support him do so based on all of the above - which, I doubt anyone would disagree, is a rather substantial body of knowledge to be weighed and evaluated in coming to a decision as to whether one supports him or not.

Snowden, on the other hand, was deified by many here within forty-eight hours of his name being heard for the first time. They had no idea who he was, what he stands for, what his motives were in doing what he did, etc. He was simply hoisted on the collective shoulders of those who heard what they wanted to hear - accusations that the Big Bad Gov't was 'spying' on them, a statement that many saw as the "smoking gun" that could be used to bring Obama and his administration down in flames.

In other words, the Snowden-supporters based their support on the word of a man they knew absolutely nothing about.

As soon as details started to emerge about Snowden the man, his supporters were quick to insist that it's not about the man, it's about what he had to say. And the fact that what he had to say was (a) old news, and (b) assertions never proven to this day, was irrelevant. They had chosen their hero, and as that hero proved less than heroic, they refused to hear anything that might destroy the sainthood they'd already blindly conferred.

Any queries into Snowden "the man" were immediately characterized as "smears". Any facts brought to light about his past were labelled as "character assassination".

And one can't miss the irony in the fact that the same people who post every single detail they can find about every Obama appointee - in an effort to get all the facts about an individual on the table, usually in order to yell Is THIS the kind of man/woman who should be placed in this position? - are the same people who think Snowden should not be subject to the same scrutiny in order to assess his credibility.

The phrase just ignore the man behind the curtain, oft-invoked by those who think there is something suspicious about the people behind every Obama administration position or decision, are now telling everyone that the curtain is what we should all be focused on - while the man behind it is not to be so much as peaked at, lest he be proven to be something other than as advertized.

Those who jumped on the Snowden bandwagon without kicking the tires before hopping on board now have no alternative but to admit they leaped before taking the time to look. And they will continue to insist that they couldn't possibly have been wrong in their decision to do so - despite all mounting evidence to the contrary.

[randome]

111. .

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Bobbie Jo]

116. Bravo

Quite the double standard, indeed.

Of course those who engage in this blatant hypocrisy will never recognize themselves in your post. Their impenetrable sense of self righteousness simply will not allow it.

[Scurrilous]

118. Epic!

[jberryhill]

137. Well put

[Maximumnegro]

139. BAM!!!

[DirkGently]

162. Silly projection. Snowden was only ever the issue for gov't apologists.

And yes, it is smearing and character assassination to go after someone's girlfriend, their supposed teenage political leanings, how many "boxes" were in their garage, and whether they were "a friendly neighbor."

Meanwhile, what was on the other side? I saw a mountain of silly call-out threads about how Snowden was "not a hero" and "not Rosa Parks," never with a citation to where all these strawmen existed in the first place.

And let's be super-clear about the motivations. Every Snowden smear was an attempt to minimize and dismiss the underlying issue of the NSA spying scandal.

Every single one.

And now, with the ACLU and Jimmy Carter, and other harder-to-call-"rafuckers" personnel weighing in, the "Your girlfriend's a pole-dancer" screamers are retreating to, "Oh, sure, there IS a real issue, now that we think about it, but it was the other side making the whole thing about personality the whole time."

No one thinks that. The intellectual dishonesty was on one side -- those trying to divert and dismiss and diminish a very real issue, which is NOT a "GOP-talking point," NOT a "Paulite / Alex Jones conspiracy theory," NOT the work of "traitors" or "ratfuckers" or a goddamned Chinese conspiracy.

Nor was it a vile, politically motivated plot by Glen Greenwald, the Guardian, or anyone else.

We all know better.

[GoneFishin]

112. Never existed. If the story was typed on a flaming shit filled paper bag dropped on

my front steps it would have been just as important.

Shoot the messenger all you like. I don't care. I am glad the spying has had a spot light shined on it.

[MotherPetrie]

113. Your attempt to re-stir the pot duly noted.

[HangOnKids]

122. It's That Or Talk About His Money

Haven't seen much else from this guy.

[MADem]

114. There are still some folks leaping to praise him.

Even with the knowledge that he lied about a dozen or more things.

There's no accounting for some folk, I guess...?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023123618

[Logical]

115. LOL, Do a poll. See how it turns out. I predict 70-30 for Snowden. n-t

[Summer Hathaway]

121. Your point being exactly what?

As has been proven time and again, DU does not in any way reflect widespread opinion amongst Democrats, or the population at large.

I'm sure if you posted a poll on FreeRepublic asking who thinks Reagan was the greatest American hero who ever lived, it would go at least 70-30 for St. Ronnie.

Does that mean he actually WAS what those poll numbers would clearly suggest?

[Logical]

131. I replied to the OP who referenced the DU. Get it now? n-t

[Summer Hathaway]

138. I apologize if I misunderstood your intent

My first thought was that you were holding out a "DU poll" as an accurate indicator of what people in RL think of the Snowden fiasco - or what people in RL think about anything.

If I misinterpreted your statement, I am justifiably chastised for doing so.

[Logical]

172. OK, sorry for the rude reply. My bad! n-t

[Summer Hathaway]

173. I was the one who was rude ...

You simply responded in kind - which I had coming.

[Logical]

174. Well, lets call it 50/50! :-)

[Fire Walk With Me]

117. Disappearing just like the Constitution. Bush and Cheney are grateful to all

surveillance state supporters!

[whatchamacallit]

120. Never was much, but Jimmy Carter muzzled several foaming authoritarians!

Yay!

[Bobbie Jo]

128. Authoritarians11!!one

Give it a rest.

You all are wearing it the fuck out.

In fact, you're starting to sound like teabaggers with their socialist11!! nonsense.

[whatchamacallit]

129. Haha, for you Bobbie Jo...

Nothing.

[flamingdem]

146. lol, we are the Authoriarainz

on yer knees socializt Duers!

[treestar]

164. LOL< "muzzled?"

Doesn't that show where you are really coming from? Who is the real authoritarian?

[whatchamacallit]

167. You are of course

and your idolatry will hose us all.

[treestar]

168. You were glad that we were muzzled

And now "authoritarian" includes respect for the rule of law.

[whatchamacallit]

169. You can play your infantile word games

but both our positions are clear to anyone paying attention.

[whatchamacallit]

170. Wait

You consider secret programs spying on American citizens "the rule of law"? Yep, authoritarian alright.

[hrmjustin]

125. I don't like or trust Snowden but I respect others right to think he is a hero.

I think the governments actions are more important.

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. Problem is very few thought he was/is a hero

It was about what he revealed. Read the NYT editorial from today on the NSA

[hrmjustin]

136. Oh I agree what he revealed is much more important.

[Historic NY]

130. They're moving on......

the guy is going to be living in an airport in the former Soviet Union...but he'll have access to American fast (fat) food..so all is good.

[GoneFishin]

142. It will take a while, but that will do him in.

[Le Taz Hot]

133. It's you.

"Snowden worship."

[quinnox]

140. meh. There comes a point where praising Snowden and saying "I fully approve!" has already been done

I mean, how many times can I say Snowden deserves to be awarded the presidential medal of freedom. There, I said it again, hope you are happy.

And further, all the threads saying "Damn Snowden, that commie traitor!" I immediately trashed as they aren't worth even opening, you might as well ask me to debate a child who post a thread saying "You poop head!" Nope. Not gonna happen.

[qingqinggary]

145. if we lose our civil liberties then we are no longer the United States of America

Last edited Sat Jun 29, 2013, 01:19 PM - Edit history (1)

I was brainwashed not to notice that democracy here in the US is gone and has been replaced over a long period of time by totalitarianism. Now we are no different than China and it seems the brainwashed masses are ready and willing to lose there freedoms in return for some misguided belief that this government will protect us in return. Just how many people have no interest in voting or even know who want to know who the elected officials in their state are. SUCH TRUST will be awarded with more loss of freedoms. Funny it took me so long to see it.
Snowden is neither hero nor traitor nor is he a criminal. He is just a guy who wanted to share the truth with the rest of us so that we can make decisions with the government not just blindly trust them to do it right every time.

[whatchamacallit]

147. Tell you what I've noticed the past few days

Last edited Mon Jul 1, 2013, 12:22 AM - Edit history (1)

As more people like Jimmy Carter express their alarm and dismay with these programs, the apologists have started changing their tune from:

"It's not what you think it is"
"It's not hurting anyone"
"It's legal"
"It's nothing new"
"Snowden, Greenwald, kill, kill, kill!"
"You're a racist"
"You're a Paulbot"
...

To:

"Yes, everyone agrees we need to roll back some of these intrusive 'Bush Era' surveillance programs"
"Snowden, Greenwald, kill, kill, kill!"
"You're a racist"
"You're a Paulbot"
...

[Enthusiast]

161. Yes.

There's nothing to see here.

[ucrdem]

154. GG hung Snowden out to dry so now we're back to GG-the-Libertarian worship.

I don't get it either.

[DirkGently]

155. More like Obama "worshippers" have given up shooting the messenger

It was only ever about Snowden for those who predictably turn every issue into a referendum on the Obama administration and swoop in to defend with irrational tactics who ever tried to make the leak about the leaker.

And they lost. No room under the bus with Drake and Grayson and Carter and all the other non "Rand Paulites" giving voice to their concerns over the actual, legitimate issue of government spying run amok.

The OP smacks of an attempt to re-frame the laughable screams about Snowden's supposed girlfriend's, accused insider "ratfucking," and the lovely Bush / Booz Allen / China plant conspiracy theories, all heaped on Snowden in a frantic, losing effort to sweep the NSA spying scandal under the rug, so as to pretend there was some "Snowden worshipping" contingent in the first place.

Nice try.

[kentuck]

158. It appears the Snowden hatred has diminished?

Maybe it is only perception?

[flamingdem]

171. Just waiting for Monday, next newsdump will have him taking asylum in Russia

or being escorted by Maduro to the Venezuelan Embassy where he might already be btw -- then on to his Libertarian Retraining Camp in socialist Venezuelan.

Can't wait.

[Major Hogwash]

185. When he is behind bars -- and he will be -- are you going to e-mail him??

To tell him how much you respect his ability to steal computers from the NSA??

[dtom67]

166. the NSA can be quite efficient when it wants to be.....

Perhaps dissent is dead?

( except on issues that do not threaten the 1% , of course )

Hmmm.... someone's at the door....

[flamingdem]

175. Wait I've resurfaced!

Let them say what they will, I did this for the Porkth Amendment

[boilerbabe]

177. the only consitent worship on DU I see is Obama worshio.

[Jamaal510]

178. More of the facts are coming in

and people are realizing that Snowden's cause is not as noble as how it originally appeared. He broke the law while simultaneously jeopardizing our national security in the process, giving away some of our government's classified info.

[DCBob]

180. Maybe they have finally come to their senses..

and realized the guy is a phony.

[Number23]

184. Yep. Commence operation -- TOPIC CHANGE

The topic will once again go back to how there's no difference between Dems and Repubs because the 1% run the entire world and there's no use for anyone to do anything about anything.

[Number23]

186. Okay, I am wheezing laughing at all of the "I din't see no worship" posters in this thread!!!

I am so hard I just scared our cat!!

WEEK after WEEK, THREAD AFTER THREAD of people claiming this man was an American hero, comparing him to FUCKING PAUL REVERE, MLK, Rosa Parks and Gandhi, and people suggesting he should be nominated for a Nobel and now -- SUDDENLY -- that it turns out his info may have been exaggerated, no country wants to take him in their borders, and that not even the people helping Assange want to help him, none of this ever happened and no one ever worshipped him!!!!!!!!

Ow!! My sides!! Oh my Lord... I think I need to go find my cat...

[randome]

190. And the final, telling blow...even Wikileaks doesn't want him.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Number23]

191. Got a link to that? I'm reading now where even Putin is trying to get him to stop leaking

Haven't had a chance to catch up with what Wikileaks has said.