I think Trayvon Martin should have dodged the bullet.

[IdaBriggs]

He's young. He could have done it.



http://mythbustersresults.com/dodge-a-bullet

Any other idiotic ways people want to blame the unarmed dead kid for causing George Zimmerman all this trouble by, you know, BEING DEAD?



You want to know how I know George Zimmerman is responsible and belongs in jail for the rest of his life?

HE F*CK*NG SHOT AN UNARMED KID.

Oh, and if George was truly "afraid for his life", he should have run away, at which point the police could have confiscated Trayvon's candy, George could have apologized for his rude behavior, and the parents wouldn't have had to pay for a funeral.

This is more theater than justice, which is why so many people no longer trust the judicial system.

HE F*CK*NG SHOT AN UNARMED KID.

Case closed.

[hlthe2b]

1. Indeed...

some of the comments made to try to defend Zimmerman's actions are beyond cringe-inducing (and racist)--even on DU.

[Whisp]

2. agree a 1000%. n/t

[HappyMe]

3. People are twisting themselves

inside out to defend this murderer.

I agree with you 100%.

[Little Star]

4. That's where I'm at.

[Hatchling]

5. K and

Fucking R!

[Warpy]

6. Gunloons are all concerned with the right to shoot

and seem incapable of realizing that an unarmed black kid had every right in the world to walk to a convenience store for iced tea and Skittles and then walk back to his dad's house without being harassed (let alone murdered) by some big asshole made brave by a gun.

This is why we rejected vigilantism in favor of a trained and professional police force: vigilantes usually got the wrong man.

[IdaBriggs]

7. I wish DU had the "like" button for individual posts.

Thank you for saying this!!!

[HappyMe]

10. You know what, you are 100% correct.

The more I go through the threads, the more convinced I am of this. Thus all the cries of 'horrible injuries', and nonsense like that.


Coupling this murder along with Sandy Hook and other gun bs, we may just be able to get something done now.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

16. Aaron Hernandez bought a pack of cotton candy flavored bubblegum

in a convenience store the night he brutally executed a man in cold blood.

What the hell does skittles and iced tea have to do with it?

[bravenak]

80. Wow.

Really? Zimmerman took a trip to target before he ran down and executed a kid in cold blood.
Aren't you angry at that grown mma trained grown armed dangerous man? I am.

[alphafemale]

108. The said wrappers of which were in the rental car in which the victim and accused were both.

Accused bought candy on the way to committing murder.

Trayvon bought candy before being murdered.

Do you comprehend?

No. It is obvious you have an agenda of trashing a murdered child.

[Enthusiast]

49. A well placed Skittle can be deadly!

I keed.

[notadmblnd]

55. Please tell that to this guy

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3120986

[Apophis]

74. You win the Post of the Day.

[graham4anything]

103. +1

[gollygee]

115. +1000

[Mr. Blue Sky]

8. A concrete sidewalk can be a deadly weapon

if you bash someone's head against it.

Maybe he wasn't that afraid until TM started pummeling him.

[Zoeisright]

9. Oh for fuck's sake.

Are you really that fucking stupid? There is NO evidence that Trayvon "pummeled" anyone. That asswipe Zimmerman stalked and murdered that kid. You wouldn't fight back if some moron was following you? Christ on a fucking crutch.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

12. How did Z get his bloody nose and lacerations on back of head?

Self inflicted?

Witness already testified that TM was on top of Z in straddle position delivering blows MMA style in what he called a "ground and pound".

Most people would call that evidence.

[starroute]

18. One witness and he already recanted

Other witnesses said Zimmerman was on top. Plus there's the fact that the blood from the back of Zimmerman's head had run down behind his ears and then forward -- a hard thing to accomplish if he'd been lying on his back on the pavement.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/06/28/2232681/witness-admission-zimmerman/?mobile=nc

On day five of George Zimmerman’s trial for the death of Trayvon Martin, a key witness who previously claimed to have seen Martin “throwing down blows” admitted he never saw an actual punch thrown. This admission from John Good could undermine Zimmerman’s claim he shot 17-year-old Martin in reasonable self-defense.

According to the original police report, Good claimed he had seen a black male pinning Zimmerman down “just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA [mixed-martial arts] style.” But on Friday, Good told jurors he “could not see” any punches thrown, only that there was “downward movement.” He also admitted he was not 100 percent sure who yelled “help,” but assumed it was Zimmerman. It is not the first time Good has changed his account of the night Martin died. Three weeks after the incident, Good told a special prosecutor he couldn’t truly tell who yelled for help “because it was so dark out on that sidewalk.”

[Mr. Blue Sky]

19. there was “downward movement.”

Could that be TM slamming Z's head against the sidewalk?

Good testified that he wasn't 100% sure who yelled "help" but believed it was Z.

[uppityperson]

21. Did you know Z was trained in MMA?

[davidpdx]

109. I think that maybe one of the things that could ultimately cause his conviction

The fact that he did not have to use the gun and if he had that kind of training should have been able to defend himself without the weapon. His justification for using a gun is toast.

Granted I don't think Martin was the aggressor anyway, I firmly believe it was Zimmerman that started it.

[K Gardner]

38. Hey, Mr. 31 posts. Stop defending a GROWN ASS MAN who followed a 16 year old home,

you're in the wrong place for that crap.

[HangOnKids]

45. God Gawd Damn AMEN

Are the Glenn Beck or FAUX sites down?

[LadyHawkAZ]

112. Echo chambers are never as much fun

as trying to hang out with the cool kids.

[notadmblnd]

57. And it could have been Z reaching for his gun.

[uppityperson]

90. He also managed to tell colors of red and black jackets in the dark when the cones

in your eyes do not have enough light to see color.

[npk]

25. So what? Even if Martin was striking Zimmerman, it was MARTIN that every right to defend himself.

Jesus Christ what he hell is so hard to figure out here.

[Enthusiast]

54. Now, now.

Stand your ground only applies to white people.

[npk]

59. Apparently...

White people with guns stalking black people. Gees.

[susanna]

92. To npk: this has been my thought all along as well.

The very idea of Stand Your Ground applies much more logically, at least in my mind, to Trayvon Martin.Before he even knew there was a weapon, he knew there was a man obviously following him with some level of hostile intent. That had to have been frightening, to say the least.

I am still not sure why some folks don't appreciate what this young man went through in the last moments of his life. He could not have known what his assailant wanted - or was doing - in following him. Martin had to act in a self-defensive manner; moreover, he had every right to do so.

Edited to note who I was responding to!

[nebenaube]

37. So...

What you are saying is when a unarmed kid stands his ground against a armed stalker, and manages to gain the upper hand in a situation escalated by the stalker; somehow justifies the stalker blowing him away in self-defense?

I seriously hope not.

I think you know where I would like to tell you to stick that concept.

[Enthusiast]

51. Self inflicted!

That is an excellent suggestion. I'm going to suggest that to the prosecution.

[riverwalker]

67. his injuries do NOT support that scenario

neither does the testimony

[TorchTheWitch]

73. gun recoil

Which is why Z's blood is on his own gun and M's is not. I believe his facial injuries came from his own gun kicking back and whacking his own face, and if Z was on his back on the ground when this recoil occurred it would likely also result in his whacking his own head on the pavement. He could also have whacked his own head on the pavement by following being shot M's body fell forward on top of Z.

If Trayvon did anything to protect himself because Z had his gun out in his hand, he had every right to. After all, what Z first told the police was that M "tried to cover Zimmerman's mouth with his hand and tried to pull the handgun away from him."
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-15/news/os-trayvon-martin-gun-20120513_1_gun-shop-owner-gun-owners-kel-tec

[Skittles]

97. why are gun humpers coming out of the woodwork?

[reflection]

31. What's scary

is that this dude has about a 1 in 3 chance of being on a jury.

[HappyMe]

11. Oh FFS!

Mall cop Zimmy outweighed the unarmed kid probably by at least 50lbs.

If a 17yr. old scared him, maybe vigilante justice isn't Zimmy's calling.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

13. Z gained over 100 lbs since being arrested.

Z and TM both weighed about the same when it happened... but TM is a few inches taller than Z.

[HappyMe]

15. Oh my!!!1

Poor Georgie, all scared and stuff.

I'm sorry, I'm not buying what you are trying to sell here.


edit to add - What's wrong with Trayvon standing his ground. He lived in that neighborhood. Georgie should have seen the kid in the area before.

[uppityperson]

22. No, they didn't weight "about the same". 158 and 200 lbs are quite different.

GZ weighed 41 lbs more, a third again as much as TM did.

[Skittles]

98. TRAYVON IS DEAD

*DEAD* as in *MURDERED*

[FiveGoodMen]

23. So very, very, VERY goodbye!

[uponit7771]

28. SAYS WHO!? The liar Zimmerman?! Regards

[Lordquinton]

29. Maybe Trayvon wouldn't have had to use whatever he had at hand to defend himself

from a gun wielding man stalking him in a car who disregarded police advice to stay in it and keep his distance.

You are seriously saying it's ok for someone to go to someone, pick a fight with them, and then shoot them. That is what you are arguing here.

[BrainMann1]

34. You show a very good point.

[NoOneMan]

32. Then don't chase down strangers on a concrete sidewalk

Stay the fuck home and save everyone some trouble, like this kid's parents.

[yardwork]

39. Zimmerman should have stayed away from Martin then

Zimmerman could have waited in his truck with his gun and waited for the police to arrest Martin for - what? - walking with candy?

[Phentex]

42. They both had use of the deadly sidewalk, only one had use of the gun...

[IdaBriggs]

58. ^=== This. nt

[brush]

68. Guess you didn't know . . .

. . . no blood was found on the sidewalk. Blood was found on zimmy's gun however. His own.

An earlier poster offered that zimmy was hit with his own gun's recoil as he straddled TM. Makes all kind of sense if you see the photo of zimmy taken with the bloody lip.

He may also have banged the back of his own head with the gun to sustain his story about getting his head bashed repeatedly on concrete (for the life of me I don't know how he didn't pass out from getting his head bashed like that on hard ass concrete). Ol' zimmy didn't think of everything though. Like I said, no blood was found on the sidewalk.

[brush]

70. Bull!

How does anyone not get knocked the fuck out if their head is repeatedly bashed against concrete? Ever thought of that, buddy? You've fallen for zimmy's crapola hook line and sinker.

Zimmerman's own words were "repeatedly had my head repeatedly BASHED on the concrete sidewalk." Not tapped, not light touched, not coddled . . . BASHED against the concrete.

If that had really happened he would have been barely conscious if not out cold. He also should have had a cracked skull and a severe concussion. Concrete is hard as hell and does not give.

Hey, you wanna buy a bridge?

[Pelican]

89. You should e-mail that to the prosecution...

Tell them that life is like the movies and if you take a blow to the head you always go unconscious....

[brush]

93. You're not very well informed

I banged my knee ONCE on concrete and tore the patella tendon clean off the bone. Concrete is hard as hell, and that was just a knee being banged once, not the head.

You must not remember that actress a few years back who fell skiing and hit her head. It killed her. Whenever someone falls the first thing doctors ask them is if they hit their head.

This zimmerman claims to have had his head REPEATEDLY BASHED ON CONCRETE and wants us to believe that he just had a few scratches on the back of his head . . . no concussion, no loss of consciousness, nothing.

He was just able to continue on with killing an unarmed kid and look and act 30 minutes later in the police station like he suffered no ill effects from having his head REPEATEDLY BASHED ON CONCRETE. Get real!

I don't buy it for one minute and anyone who does is naive as hell.

And no blood was found on the concrete either.

[HangOnKids]

95. The Actress Was Natasha Richardson

Her death really touched me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natasha_Richardson

My friends son had a minor fall off his snowboard at Sugar Bowl; he appeared fine, went to dinner complaining of a bit of a headache, and was found dead in his bed the next morning. The poster you have been replying to appears to love Zimmy. I have no idea why!

[Buns_of_Fire]

96. That 'no blood on the concrete' part is telling.

Even relatively minor scalp wounds bleed like crazy.

I once slipped, fell, and whanged the back of my head on the asphalt parking area of my apartment at the time -- asphalt, mind you, which is considerably softer than concrete. Three bath towels (and one ruined shirt) later, the bleeding finally stopped.

[Humanist_Activist]

84. Trayvon Martin had the right to use deadly force in self defense...

he didn't initiate the conflict, nor was he the one chasing Zimmerman.

[Kennah]

88. Once you engage in pursuit, your mantle of innocence collapses.

Welcome to DU, and enjoy your short stay.

[eridani]

94. Not possible to beat someone bloody without getting his DNA all over you

No Zimmerman DNA on Trayvon's hands. QED

[AnnieK401]

14. I've been paying close attention to this on the local news (I live in FL)

Personally, I am furious with Zimmerman and would like to see him put away for a long time. However, from what the analysts are saying I think the State has a good case for manslaughter. 2nd degree might be pushing it though.

[HockeyMom]

26. I agree

Many times they overcharge in order to get the lesser charge. Zimmerson should not get off scott free, and personally, I think he needs some serious counseling. I am not talking about race here either after reading all his 911 calls to the cops.

[Voice for Peace]

36. I keep thinking about the same thing, 2nd degree vs manslaughter.

my opinion, which keeps evolving..

If he had done the right thing, he would have
turned himself in, and pled to involuntary
manslaughter, taken some goddam responsibility.
It would have been open and shut.

His lies and distortion after the fact indicate
more of the 2nd degree depraved mind argument.

[noiretextatique]

50. exactly...if he had just told the truth from the beginning

and actually showed a modicum of remorse...
but his bizarre version of events are clearly relying on a bit of the old racism. to cloud people's judgement.

[Voice for Peace]

60. I just looked up sentencing for murder in FL.. very interesting

and even for manslaughter (with a gun) the penalties aren't light.

Offense: Mandatory sentencing

Manslaughter: Maximum of 15 years in prison; maximum of 30 years in prison if a firearm is used plus a mandatory minimum of 25 years

*Aggravated manslaughter of a child: Maximum of 30 years in prison; maximum could be enhanced to life in prison if a firearm is used plus a mandatory minimum of 25 years

Third degree murder: Maximum of 15 years in prison; maximum of 30 years in prison if a firearm is used plus a mandatory minimum of 25 years

Second degree murder: Maximum of life in prison; Minimum of 25 years if a firearm is used, otherwise a minimum of 20.5 years under sentencing guidelines for a person with a clean record.

First degree murder: Death penalty or life in prison. Parole in FL has been abolished for all crimes since 1983.

* I believe this easily applies
3)?A person who causes the death of any person under the age of 18 by culpable negligence under s. 827.03(2)(b) commits aggravated manslaughter of a child, a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

[noiretextatique]

61. thanks for the info

i hope he gets convicted...and get the maximum sentence. he deserves it.

[Voice for Peace]

62. culpible negligence

Culpable negligence means recklessly acting without reasonable caution and putting another person at risk of injury or death (or failing to do something with the same consequences).

It is the omission to do something which a reasonable, prudent and honest man would do, or the doing something which such a man would not do under all the circumstances surrounding each particular case. [State v. Emery, 78 Mo. 77, 80 (Mo. 1883)]

"The term culpable negligence should be construed to mean a negligence of a higher degree than that which in civil cases is held to be gross negligence, and must be a negligence of a degree so gross as to be tantamount to a wanton disregard of, or utter indifference to, the safety of human life." [Smith v. State, 197 Miss. 802 (Miss. 1945)]

[AnnieK401]

63. Bingo! As we say in FL. OK, I don't. But there is a lot of Bingo going on here.

[DrDan]

106. EXACTLY!!!!

I also live in Fl and have been following the testimony.

Your are right on - 2d has yet to be proven. And the defense is scoring many points with state witnesses.

However, that said, it is not hard to understand the mentality of lynch mobs in reading many posts here.

[secondwind]

17. The EMT just testified that it took him all of 5 minutes to treat Zimmerman... he could not have

been injured very badly, then.

[A Simple Game]

20. Oh come on, he didn't just shoot an unarmed kid.

He profiled, stalked, and then killed an unarmed kid.

[joesdaughter]

83. Exactly n/t

[BlueJazz]

24. A kid can't walk down the street without somebody fucking with him, following him...

...fucking with him some more, killing him ?... and then WAHHHHHHHH. Wahhhhhhh


George Z is a God-Damn piece of Human garbage.

[forestpath]

27. K&R

[Voice for Peace]

30. it has just come out in court that zimmerman has a problem with constipation

which might explain a lot, I don't know what,
but it doesn't look good.

[HangOnKids]

46. That explains the weight gain

He is full of shit!

[Enthusiast]

56. Precisely.......nt

[LadyHawkAZ]

113. !!!

[BrainMann1]

33. I agree

[bobclark86]

35. I wasn't there. Neither were you.

Also, I'm not on the jury. So, even if I had an opinion (which I know I can't form an informed one), it wouldn't matter... coincidentally, neither does yours in any meaningful way.

The simple answer is this: At most, two people actually know what happened. One is dead. One is not. Whether or not the "right" one (not that I'm in favor of ANYONE dying) is dead is something for the jury to decide, NOT the Internet Hate Machine, not Al Sharpton, not Rush Limbaugh.

All the Internet raeg and teh Internet Tough Guying on both sides won't bring a kid back to life or fix the life of the man involved. The family of Martin will never be whole again. Even if the jury finds Zimmerman not guilty, he will never have a normal life ever again.

[Voice for Peace]

40. Only two people know, but one of them is dead -- means only one person knows.

The other knew, but can not speak for himself.
We presume his innocence, as there is no reason
to find him guilty of anything.

We try to piece together his story, together, to
understand what happened, to support the
cause of justice and give him a voice.

Truly -- probably not even Zimmerman knows
what happened.. I guarantee he has already
rewritten his own memories. It's a coping
and survival mechanism. The killer must
find some goodness in himself or he will
perish, so he starts rewriting history immediately,
inside his own head.

[yardwork]

41. If Zimmerman is acquitted he will be a celebrity

He'll be the darling of every white supremacist group in the country. He'll be a spokesperson for the NRA. The guy who got away with shooting an unarmed kid for walking while black in a gated neighborhood.

[Herlong]

44. Go back in time

And look at his girl friend. She's a good kid too. Let's make America America again

[bobclark86]

118. Yes to the first part.

No to the second (that's just silly and you know it). But the first because of the third...

...unless they actually read something (HAHAHAHA! Amirite?) and find out he's Hispanic... i.e.: an illegal Mexican (because, as we all know, all Hispanics are Mexicans in this country illegally).

[noiretextatique]

53. curious: did you feel the same way about the OJ trial?

you don't have enough posts here for me to search. and zimmerman should not have a normal life again, since he took the life of an unarmed teenager.

[bobclark86]

117. Since I was in third grade at the time, no.

While most of the people around me were white, I'm also near Buffalo, so a surprising number thought him innocent.

And I love how you judge if someone should have a normal life. I wasn't there. Neither were you. You are speculating.

[K Gardner]

43. I swear to god I can't bear this crap for months. Poor George. Got a bump on his head because, as

you say, he was STALKING an unarmed kid in the dark. What did he THINK he was going to do?? If, as the defense says, he's fat and overweight and out of shape and SKEEERED?? WTF did he think was going to happen? He didn't care, because Georgie had a GUN. Rot in hell, or prison, either one, George.

[HangOnKids]

52. The defense used Zimmermans weight as a defensive move?

Because if they did, the pix of him at the time of the murder prove otherwise. As soon as I saw the new and fat Zimmerman I wondered if the defense would use that tactic.

[Voice for Peace]

64. that was weird, getting the doctor to describe him as obese, etc.

poor guy, obese with lower back pain from constipation,
too.. how could he possibly be a murderer?

[HangOnKids]

65. Since When Does Being Full Of Shit Exempt One From Murder?

Third rate hacks. I watched 5 minutes of West today questioning a witness, and I was cringing. Ham fisted and stupid is a bad combination.

[Voice for Peace]

69. they're trying to portray him as an out of shape weakling, too weak to fight for his life

against big scary Trayvon. He couldn't defend himself,
that's why he was screaming for help, crying out like a
terrified kid..... oh wait

[HangOnKids]

72. I Get Their Piss Poor Attempts

Last edited Sat Jun 29, 2013, 03:58 AM - Edit history (1)

These fucking defense lawyers have law degrees? My 12 year old debates me better.

[K Gardner]

77. omg.. I missed the part about constipation and just spewed water on the puter.. WTH? He could have

just broke some wind and ended the whole matter without the gun. They're arguing obese AND constipated?!! LOL

Good lord, months and months of stupid. It does look to me like the Prosecution is just sitting back and biding their time, letting the defense dig, dig, dig the hole. They haven't been objecting much, which is probably good.

[Voice for Peace]

86. She was explaining why she had treated him for back pain

in the past, I believe, clarifying that his lower back
pain was not from injury but from constipation.
She made the point twice. Seemed to explain a
lot, but I don't know what.

[bigwillq]

71. So don't watch the trial, don't read the news

hide posts and ignore users on DU who talk about the subject.

You have options.

[K Gardner]

79. I sometimes forget how "literally" some people on DU take phrases. Sorry you overreacted

to a turn of phrase.

[noiretextatique]

47. but since the kid was black...

he must have been asking for it he beat poor, armed zimmeran within and inch of his life, after zommerman stalked him one good thing about this: the rw claims about the irrelevance of race and the end of racism are proving to be utter, complete bullshit, one more time again.

[Voice for Peace]

48. The defense attorneys tend to alienate witnesses very effectively

this doctor is starting to look cranky
http://www.mediaite.com/columnists/live-feed-george-zimmerman-trial-testimony-day-5/

[bravenak]

66. Just so.

[K Gardner]

75. ...and Winter is Coming. n/t

[bravenak]

76. Thank you for getting me.

I can do this all day.

[K Gardner]

81. I get you. Words are wind. ~~~

[bravenak]

82. Poor Trayvon.

That night was dark and full of terrors. Armed terrors.

[K Gardner]

85. Oh, you won the round with that one. Bellisimo ...“What do we say to the Lord of Death?"

"Not today.”

Tonight, as I was blessed to be alive and not dead on wet grass because I wanted an Arizona Tea, I thought of the myriad of different ways this could have turned out. Played it out each way... Zimm stayed in his car as told. Trayvon walks in the back door to his daddy's house, gives the Skittles to his little friend, and they watch the game. Or Trayvon keeps running and running, like Forrest Gump; barely makes it in the door, locks it and calls 911.. Zimm is arrested for stalking a kid with a gun (or something). Or maybe Zimm just slipped on the wet grass and fell on his fat, constipated ass. Either way, Trayvon was still alive. Either way, in Chapter Two, George Zimmerman killed someone else. It would have happened. I'd bet on it. But I wish Trayvon could have said to the Lord of Death, "Not Today"...

“Summer will end soon enough, and childhood as well.”

[bravenak]

91. I'm thinking that zimmerman was just having a fire and blood moment.

He was tired of those punks and went all ' ours is the fury' on Trayvon. If he thinks we're gonna buy self defense then he knows nothing.

[IdaBriggs]

99. This post reads like poetry to me.

Thank you for sharing it.

[Ken Burch]

78. Trayvon would've been able to, if only he'd had "wire work" training

[chelsea0011]

87. Anyone defending Zimmerman are saying armed people in their

neighborhood have the right to follow and harass anyone just out for a walk. Is that the neighborhood you want to live in?

[hfojvt]

100. when you say "case closed"

you seem to be saying "mind close".

Your mind is made up, so don't confuse you with any facts.

Here's a fact - Trayvon is bigger than I am.

So he ain't no kid. He is as big as many other full grown men.

Therefore the fact that he was unarmed, is really beside the point.

You think that I am not dangerous just because I am unarmed?

You want to test that theory out on your head? Let's get in the ring for some bare-fisted kick-boxing. Are you up for it? After all, there is surely no risk to you, because I am after all, unarmed AND smaller than Trayvon Martin.

Now I am quite sure that there are many bigger men and perhaps women who would not have many qualms about such a battle. Many would feel fairly confident about their ability to kick my a$$. And perhaps many smaller men and women with martial training or great strength or speed or ability who would have the same confidence. And I am fairly confident that they would be right.

But even in that case, do they really wanna get in that ring? I know I wouldn't even against a smaller person. For one thing, you never know how tough an opponent is. For another thing, even in a fight you win, you can get hurt pretty bad. I would hope that even if I am losing a fight that I would land a few kicks and punches and let the "winner" know for a few days that they were in a fight.

The bottom line is that just because a person my size is unarmed, does not mean we are as harmless as a gossamer butterfly, and it's kind of absurd to wave around the phrase "unarmed kid" and pretend that we are. In this case, is it not possible that this gossamer butterfly was beating the crap out of a larger and older man? Consider modifying your phrase. "He shot an unarmed juvenile who was beating the crap out of him."

Does it still sound like "case closed"?

[IdaBriggs]

104. If I jump into a boxing ring with you --

there is an assumption we are both consenting to a confrontation.

What you seem to be forgetting is that Trayvon wasn't seeking Zimmerman out; he was walking home after shopping.

If Zimmerman thought Trayvon was scary, then he needed to STAY AWAY because (and this is one of the biggest things I can't believe I have to actually explain to another adult) Walking Home While Black ISN'T A Crime in Progress.

Following a kid walking home is what criminals do. Usually they do it so they can rob, rape or assault you. In this case, the criminal SHOT HIS VICTIM, who was an unarmed kid.

Damn right my mind is closed. Zimmerman's bad judgment on so many things - with a get out of jail free card because of his family connections - led him to KILL A KID OVER NOTHING.

That is the type of person I don't want on my streets, and that is the reason society funds jails.

[JustAnotherGen]

110. Thanks for repeating this

If Zimmerman thought Trayvon was scary, then he needed to STAY AWAY

It makes no sense to me that someone who is a scaredy cat would do what Zimmerman did. He lost me the minute he didn't lock his doors, put his car in drive with the brake on - and wait for armed police officers to arrive.

He wasn't a big scaredy cat based on his throwing his balls around behavior.

[hfojvt]

111. consent does not really matter

because as an unarmed person Trayvon's size, I am supposedly harmless. There's no possible way I could punch you, knock you down and start pounding on you while I held you down. I am just a gossamer butterfly, an unarmed person almost as big as Trayvon. I could not hurt a fly. Isn't that what you say when you harp on the fact that Trayvon was unarmed? That he was "mostly harmless".

and nobody, anywhere is saying that walking while black is a crime.

What I assert is that beating somebody up while black IS a crime. EVEN if the person you are beating up was following you, and at night too.

You know, I wish Zimmerman's defense would time Zimmerman as he runs a 100 yard dash. Let's see if he has Usain Bolt speed or something. Because people seem to believe that he gave Trayvon more than a 1 minute head start and still managed to run him down.

We know, if we listen to the tape of Zimmerman's call, that he describes Trayvon walking past his car. Then he says "shit, he's running" and gets out of his car and walks after him. We can be sure that Zimmerman was not running - because he is not breathing heavy enough to be running and talking at the same time. Unless, of course, he is a world class runner. And then Zimmerman stays on the phone for another minute during which he states "I don't know where he is".

So now Trayvon has a one minute head start, during which time he could run 200-400 yards, depending on how fast he is and how fast he decides to run.

I don't see any way Zimmerman can catch Trayvon if he had run. Do you?

I also don't see Zimmerman looking for a confrontation. He's walking after a guy who is running. A guy who is running away is not a huge threat. It is pretty clear that Zimmerman is tailing him, just to see which way he goes. He wants to be able to tell the cops - he went up that way two houses and then cut to the left. Or what the heck, even run up to that corner and look left yo see if you can see him before he turns again. You don't expect a confrontation because the guy is running away.

In my view, Zimmerman killed the juvenile because said person was on top of him, pounding on him. As far as I am concerned, one of the reasons we fund jails is to lock up people who go around pounding on other people.

[IdaBriggs]

114. Repeating nonsense and lies doesn't make them true.

Plus you keep making crap up. Zimmerman is a murdering asshole and you -- well, you make your character obvious.

Keep bleating your lies. They get more disgusting every time you try to convince people this was "justifiable homicide."

[hfojvt]

116. which ones do you think are nonsense and lies?

The part about why Zimmerman was following Trayvon is speculation, but no worse, nor implausible than much of the other anrti-Z speculation, which is often not fact based.

Many people seem to not know, for example, that Zimmerman was ALREADY following Trayvon when dispatch told him "we don't need you to do that".

The tape of Zimmerman's call is presumably not made up (although in this day, it could be somehow the audio equivalent of photoshopping instead of the real tape).

But you are right, there is no point in trying to discuss reason and facts with somebody whose mind is closed.

Me, I am just a gossamer butterfly and it is time for me to flutter away to my stupid job. But attacking me does not really prove your point, especially not to me.

[bcbink]

101. agree. n/t

[malaise]

102. +1,000

That simple

[DrDan]

105. "case closed"????

ignore the trial? ignore testimony and evidence? ignore the witnesses?

the 2d murder charges need to be proven - that is our process.

do you prefer to ignore it and jump right to the lynch mob?

[Tien1985]

107. If Trayvon had been Trisha

The 17yr old white girl, who had been followed and confronted by a middle aged man on the street, and then managed to get in any kind of damage on Z before he ultimately shot her, people would be screaming for Z's head on a platter.