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cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
Fri Jun 28, 2013, 09:52 AM Jun 2013

Hat tip to Obama Admin for ending bulk NSA email collecting

I don't know what credit is or is not due, but we collected up everybody's emails 2001-2011, so Bush did it for almost his entire presidency and Obama for only the beginning of his, and the program was already there when he took office.

I really don't know whether the program was stopped for civil liberties reasons, or just wasn't working, or the computer broke, or whatever. Somebody tripped over the plug.

But it ended, either way.

But the Guardian headline that Obama spied on every email for two years is kind of silly, given the time-line.

I would have said US GOVERNMENT collected all emails for TEN YEARS if I was writing the headline.

18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
1. Being accurate would not help generate ourage.
Fri Jun 28, 2013, 09:54 AM
Jun 2013

And outrage generates eyeballs.

And eyeballs generate money.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
4. Well,
Fri Jun 28, 2013, 10:28 AM
Jun 2013

"But the Guardian headline that Obama spied on every email for two years is kind of silly, given the time-line.

I would have said US GOVERNMENT collected all emails for TEN YEARS if I was writing the headline."

...the entire piece is misleading. Sometimes it seems like Greenwald is trying to absolve Bush or create the impression that Obama is no different from Bush.

His latest piece is repackaging and conflating already reported claims to give the impression that there is something new here. He added a new document, but all it does is confirm what we already know.

• Secret program launched by Bush continued 'until 2011'
• Fisa court renewed collection order every 90 days
• Current NSA programs still mine US internet metadata

<...>

The documents indicate that under the program, launched in 2001, a federal judge sitting on the secret surveillance panel called the Fisa court would approve a bulk collection order for internet metadata "every 90 days". A senior administration official confirmed the program, stating that it ended in 2011.

<...>

Eventually, the NSA gained authority to "analyze communications metadata associated with United States persons and persons believed to be in the United States", according to a 2007 Justice Department memo, which is marked secret.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/27/nsa-data-mining-authorised-obama

The 90-day order was reported initially. The news that the program ended would make the initial claim that it was ongoing false.

Mentioning the memo, which actually shows that the procedures were being followed after they were put in places (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023058210 ), creates the impression that it was simply a continuation of Bush's illegal data collection.

Conflating the metadata program with Stellar Wind, Bush's illegal eavesdropping program, is curious.

Remember whistleblower Thomas Tamm?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023032225

In addition to eavesdropping on Americans, the Bush admistration was collecting metadata illegally. Bush-Cheney had utter disregard for the law.

The program was in fact a wide range of covert surveillance activities authorized by President Bush in the aftermath of 9/11. At that time, White House officials, led by Vice President Dick Cheney, had become convinced that FISA court procedures were too cumbersome and time-consuming to permit U.S. intelligence and law-enforcement agencies to quickly identify possible Qaeda terrorists inside the country. (Cheney's chief counsel, David Addington, referred to the FISA court in one meeting as that "obnoxious court," according to former assistant attorney general Jack Goldsmith.) Under a series of secret orders, Bush authorized the NSA for the first time to eavesdrop on phone calls and e-mails between the United States and a foreign country without any court review. The code name for the NSA collection activities—unknown to all but a tiny number of officials at the White House and in the U.S. intelligence community—was "Stellar Wind."

http://web.archive.org/web/20081216011008/http://www.newsweek.com/id/174601/output/print

Here's How the NSA Decides Who It Can Spy On
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023060180


BenzoDia

(1,010 posts)
5. Agreed. I think it's fair to say that pulling the plug on that program was an attempt to work
Fri Jun 28, 2013, 10:32 AM
Jun 2013

towards a proportionate system.

hlthe2b

(102,292 posts)
7. Given this was done for years in secret, I'm not sure I believe this or any administration...
Fri Jun 28, 2013, 11:16 AM
Jun 2013

that it has ended. Why SHOULD we believe that? (and I continue to be an Obama supporter, before any jump down my throat-- but that doesn't mean I will be a sycophant with blinders on).

midnight

(26,624 posts)
13. I would think that seeing is believing.... When they show us the savings of tax dollars for
Fri Jun 28, 2013, 11:35 AM
Jun 2013

proportionally spying with only one of Bushes formerly two tier systems we will know for sure...

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
18. Can anyone say …
Fri Jun 28, 2013, 09:10 PM
Jun 2013

“Mission Accomplished”? I’m starting to believe that this whole “scandal” exercise is to accomplish exactly what you said:

“Given this was done for years in secret, I'm not sure I believe this or any administration ... that it has ended. Why SHOULD we believe that? (and I continue to be an Obama supporter, before any jump down my throat-- but that doesn't mean I will be a sycophant with blinders on).”


IOW, I distrust the government; but support the man. Isn’t that exactly the thought process that paves the way for the rise of the “Great Dictator.”

Poll_Blind

(23,864 posts)
8. I was going to mention this too, but while reading the various articles it appeared that these...
Fri Jun 28, 2013, 11:22 AM
Jun 2013

...programs were stopped, not because they were determined to be overreaching in some way, but because a new program came along with better capabilities. So, for instance, yes, X program ended, but it was because Y program took over for it.

PB

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
9. Bulk private info is still being collected. One half a trillion in just one year.
Fri Jun 28, 2013, 11:22 AM
Jun 2013
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/27/nsa-online-metadata-collection

How the NSA is still harvesting your online data


Files show vast scale of current NSA metadata programs, with one stream alone celebrating 'one trillion records processed'

A review of top-secret NSA documents suggests that the surveillance agency still collects and sifts through large quantities of Americans' online data – despite the Obama administration's insistence that the program that began under Bush ended in 2011.

Shawn Turner, the Obama administration's director of communications for National Intelligence, told the Guardian that "the internet metadata collection program authorized by the Fisa court was discontinued in 2011 for operational and resource reasons and has not been restarted."

But the documents indicate that the amount of internet metadata harvested, viewed, processed and overseen by the Special Source Operations (SSO) directorate inside the NSA is extensive.

While there is no reference to any specific program currently collecting purely domestic internet metadata in bulk, it is clear that the agency collects and analyzes significant amounts of data from US communications systems in the course of monitoring foreign targets.

On December 26 2012, SSO announced what it described as a new capability to allow it to collect far more internet traffic and data than ever before. With this new system, the NSA is able to direct more than half of the internet traffic it intercepts from its collection points into its own repositories. One end of the communications collected are inside the United States.

pmorlan1

(2,096 posts)
14. The Rest of the Story
Fri Jun 28, 2013, 11:44 AM
Jun 2013

Thank you for providing the rest of the story and not just picking and choosing the parts that you like. LOL

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