Zimmerman trial: "simply not a very good day at all for the prosecution".

[Nye Bevan]

Once again, it was simply not a very good day at all for the prosecution. The primary State witnesses today were Rachel Jeantel, Jenna Lauer, and Selma Mora. The first had her credibility substantively destroyed, the second was powerfully–almost humiliatingly–co-opted by the defense, and the third provided testimony entirely consistent with the defense’s theory of lawful self-defense.

......

It has become common knowledge that Jeantel has perpetrated a number of lies on this case, both under oath and otherwise, and West made certain to touch on each of these, albeit with a relatively light hand. She lied about her age–she was 18-years-old not 16-years-old at the time, she lied about why she did not attend Martin’s funeral or wake, she lied about her name to Martin’s mother and others, and so on.

For many of these lies she offered a relatively innocuous excuse–she didn’t go the funeral because she doesn’t like to see dead bodies, for example. But the sheer number and variety of them cast Jeantel as someone who was perfectly comfortable creating a fabrication if it served her convenience or purposes.

.....

O’Mara then asked a few questions that will undoubtedly–if incorrectly–become great overnight fodder for the legal pundits. He asked Lauer if in her personal interactions with Zimmerman he had acted appropriately. Yes, she answered. Did he appear to be a hot head? No. A wannabe vigilante? No. Did he seem to be a well-intentioned neighbor trying to help his community? Yes.


http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-day-end-of-day-analysis-video-of-states-witnesses//#more

[warrior1]

1. you watch a different trial than I did

[WovenGems]

2. Maybe

Fox News covers it in a way that makes one think that? Maybe. But that how I viewed the trial.

[geek tragedy]

3. From your source: MSNBC Hide's Obama's Dijon Mustard (aka Dijongate)

http://legalinsurrection.com/2009/05/msnbc-hides-obamas-dijon-mustard-aka-dijongate/

MSNBC, Obama’s favorite network, reported on Obama’s trip with Joe Biden to get a burger. Just two wild and crazy guys out for some red meat. Andrea Mitchell (does she have nothing else to do?) reported that Obama ordered a burger and mustard. Sounds like it had that “real guy kind of quality.”

Mitchell even noted that Obama left a $5 tip in the tip jar. But she didn’t mention one arugula-like fact, and you couldn’t hear it on the MSNBC video because Andrea and her correspondent Kelly O’Donnel (they needed two people to cover this story) were talking so much.

NBC’s regular news reported Obama’s order as follows: “”I’m going to have a basic cheddar cheese burger, medium well, with mustard,” Obama said. “Do you have spicy mustard? I’ll take that.”

Actually, the quote was “you got a spicy mustard or something like that, or a Dijon mustard, something like that” (at 0.55 of the unedited video below without Mitchell’s talkover).

Obama ordered his burger with DIJON MUSTARD! Bet he had to seek John Kerry’s counsel on that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. The author, Andrew Branca, is a NRA member and wrote a book on self defense.

Nothing wrong with that, but it's obvious he has a dog in this fight, and it's affecting his analysis.

That being said I'm not emotionally investing myself in a guilty verdict. I don't want to be disappointed. I rather be pleasanty surprised by a guilty one.

[geek tragedy]

5. I expect Zimmerman to walk. White guys killing black people is still

considered petty violation in much of the old confederacy. The cops were going to let him walk even though they knew he murdered Martin.

Pleasant surprise would be manslaughter conviction.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. I really think manslaughter is the appropriate charge.

I don't think that Barney Fife wannabe intended to kill anyone, but his reckless behavior resulted in just that.

[chelsea0011]

22. Honestly, tracking down a totally innocent person

with a loaded hand gun is not someone I would be sympathic to if I were on the jury. Imagine neighborhoods filled with armed people confronting anyone they choose. It is an insane thought but Zimmerman created this by his actions. Murder is the correct charge.

[Nye Bevan]

7. So, you think the jurors are racially prejudiced, lied to get on the jury under false pretences,

and are basically going to ignore the evidence and acquit, because they are happy to see a black guy get killed?

I guess I have more faith in the jury system than you. I think the jurors will make a good-faith attempt to weigh the evidence that is presented and come to the right verdict.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. No.But most folks see the world through a racial prism.

.

[geek tragedy]

11. They'll see a guy who was afraid of the scary black person.

And then they'll conclude that the black young man in question was of course dangerous and threatening and the aggressor.

Why do you think the defense attorney insisted on drilling "creepy ass cracker" into the jurors' heads? To show Trayvon Martin as a feral, whitey-hating timebomb just waiting to claim his first light-skinned victim.

That's how racism works.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. None of us are suggesting there are six Bull Connors on the jury

But the jurors are drawn from the general population and folks of all colors see the world through a racial prism, even when they are unaware of it.

[geek tragedy]

19. This is why Z will walk:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. That was great.

I'm surprised there weren't guys who volunteered to buy the blonde actress a bike.

[WovenGems]

38. No Kidding!!!

[Bandit]

46. He was afterall in possession of a deadly weapon, the sidewalk....

[Captain Stern]

8. The twitter thing was bizarre.

It's not often that a prosecutor tries to find ways to discredit their own witness.

[Nye Bevan]

9. Basically, the prosecution witnesses have turned out to be defense witnesses.

It's mind-boggling to see such a flimsy case being tried.

[trumad]

12. flimsy case

OK---let me try to understand...

Are you saying that Zimmerman should not be tried?

[Nye Bevan]

15. There should have been some kind of plea-bargain.

I KNOW that this would probably have resulted in Zimmerman serving less time than he deserves, but it's better than forcing a trial for political reasons, putting on a parade of embarrassingly terrible witnesses, and probably ending up with an acquittal.

[ksoze]

16. No. But for a leeser charge which was more likely to win

The State felt pressure from the family and racial furor and went for murder, which requires a level which is proving to be difficult based on the facts and lack of real witnesses. Many felt it would have been best to try for manslaughter. etc, since the higher bar will be tough to win.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. The prosecution might have over charged on purpose

Manslaughter is a lesser included charge and gives the jury an out in the way of a compromise verdict.

[ksoze]

20. Are you sure they can compromise - I think they may be all in on MS

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. I was told by somebody on this board that lesser included offenses

Are part of a 2n degree murder charge in FL

[ksoze]

40. You may be correct...

Jeff Weiner, a former president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers who practices in Miami, said an Arthur hearing “is not a mini-trial, but it’s a very good preview of the evidence that the state has at this point.”

Mr. Weiner suggested that the prosecutor might have “overcharged” to retain the option, should she feel a murder conviction is slipping away, of asking the judge to instruct the jury to consider lesser offenses, like manslaughter. It is also possible, he said, that she might be trying to coax Mr. Zimmerman to the negotiating table to plead guilty to such a lesser charge. But, he added, it is impossible to say whether it is overly tough, since evidence has not yet been produced.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/us/zimmerman-faces-second-degree-murder-charge-in-florida.html?_r=0

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. I don't know if the judge has to make jurors aware of lesser included charges.

Instructions are open to negotiation. The defense might want to roll the dice and go for a straight up or down on the murder 2 charge.

I think Zimmerman is guilty of at least manslaughter but I'm not on the jury.


What I want to happen or what I think should happen and what I think will happen are three different things.

This is where I think some followers of this trial are getting lost.

[Jenoch]

52. Was Zimmerman also

charged with manslaughter?


Edit: Never mind. I too discovered that manslaughter is included as a lesser charge in Florida when someone is charged with murder 2. The judge will instruct the jury about the lesser charge as well.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Zimmerman ignored Community Watch protocol and a police dispatcher's instructions

And ended up killing an unarmed kid.

What did you want the State Attorney's office to do?


Don't worry. He'll walk...

[Thinkingabout]

30. Totally in agreement on failure to follow community watch protocol. Zimmerman went from watch to

Killer.

[Jenoch]

53. The dispatcher's words were

"We don't need you to do that."

[geek tragedy]

14. "flimsy case"

young man walks home, is stalked by man with gun, winds up dead.

Flimsy case?

Rest assured, the jury will agree with you that Zimmerman had a right to shoot that kid in the head, and that Martin deserved to die.

[Nye Bevan]

24. Or perhaps they might conclude that the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard has not been met

to convict Zimmerman of murder?

[geek tragedy]

27. lesser-included offense is available, no? nt

[ksoze]

21. Current state witness becoming a defense witness

Says he saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman hitting him.

[Myrina]

23. I think dude's full of shit ...

... in one breath he says it's so dark out that he thinks it's a dog attacking a person, in the next breath he says it's a black skinned person atop a white person in a red sweatshirt/jacket. Got light outside awful fast, didn't it?

Also, the screams --- it could very well have been Trayvon screaming for help because the "creepy cracker" who was stalking him was finally under his control & he wanted help.

[ksoze]

25. Of course you do

But it's the jury who decide who in the end more believable.

[Myrina]

26. .. and its clear you have your opinion firmly entrenched, too

... based on other posts you've made as well.

[ksoze]

29. Wrong.

Virtually all of my posts point to the fact the jury will make a decision based on the entire case - all witnesses. I am actually not a fan of Zimmerman and I do not support the Florida law which contributed to this case. I am a fan of justice and many positions were set in cement days after the incident and the facts as presented are being ignored. I remain open to Z being convicted, but I think the State overreached in the charging, based on the lack of witnesses and the SYG law in place.

[WovenGems]

41. Nitwitnesses

I hope they focus more on the timeline and the thought processes that went into that timeline. If they do then Zimmerman can not weasel out.

[HiddenAgenda63]

45. I wonder how they are perceiving all this...

...and what they feel, comparatively about the divergent testimonies of the past three days? Preponderance of evidence / opinion or reasonable doubt? Senationality? Clarity of thought and intended purpose of witnesses or legal strategies?

I never see the jury and everything I have seen of the trial gets quickly coloured, one way or the other, by the myriad talkingheads and ex-fartcatchers of various networks. I don't see a lot of emotionality in the general court audience, either. Nothing that would lead me to think they are leaning towards either the defense or the prosecution.

I think that the events mandated that the trial be held, one way or another, though.

[pintobean]

35. He's a witness for the prosecution.

They knew what his testimony would be from his deposition.

[Myrina]

36. Well unless the Prosecutor is leading this discussion somewhere, it was a mistake ...

.... because he's not helping their case.

[pintobean]

37. Agreed

[Gin]

31. Mr. Good....a witness....on now.....is,not helping the prosecution

IMO

He describes the person on the bottom as Zimmerman who was crying for help.....Mark Mara walked him right into that.

[ksoze]

32. He is confirming Zimmermans account

Why did they put him on?

[AngryAmish]

39. Zimmer's lawyer is trying so hard not to gild the lily

Believe it or not this is a hard thing to do. You are trying to get all the good facts you can out of the witness but you want them off the stand before the witness says something you don't like. Sometimes it just is best to cut it short.


(and I hate myself for watching this)

[Gin]

44. CNN just called him the Defense star witness

[KurtNYC]

34. Murder 2 is going to hinge on Zim's state of mind

Jeantel was not Shakespeare on the stand but she need not be. The lies she told were not material to the events of the shooting and she explained her reasons for not attending the funeral fairly well. All the jury need believe from Jeantel is that Martin was creeped out by Zim and ran. She certainly wasn't lying when she repeated the phrases they used to describe Zim. So saying that her credibility was totally destroyed is stretching a bit.

To find guilty of murder the jury must believe that Zim acted with:

"Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life (sometimes described as an "abandoned and malignant heart&quot ,"

AND with premeditation. And that also seems a stretch here but to my original point, nothing Jeantel said or lied about (her age, the funeral, etc.) speaks to Zim's state of mind, only to TM's and her own.

My prediction is guilty of manslaughter.

[dpibel]

47. You're wrong on premeditation

There's no premeditation requirement for Murder 2.

[KurtNYC]

48. Thanks. I stand corrected...

(2)?The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.04.html

[Arkana]

42. Legal Insurrection is a right-wing blog and a shithole.

Nothing they say or do should be taken seriously.

[B2G]

49. This whole trial so far hasn't been good

for the prosecution.

Unless they have something they haven't brought out yet, he's gonna walk.

[DrDan]

50. her admitting to lying (regardless of how minor) and her inconsistent

statements will be meat for the defense closing argument. I can certainly see doubt being raised regarding her testimony.

And that's what it is all about - raising doubt.

[arthritisR_US]

51. Second time this bullsh*t site has been quoted. Given they

list and link to Brietbart as a suggested read, well, I am not even going to waste my time with them